Trying to Use Ti for Everything / Transitioning Out of Ti

[Late2theParty]

I've had this issue my whole life... where I constantly avoid "doing" things... even things I really really like. I procrastinate and put off whatever it is I need to "do", and I'll just try to space out think about it instead. I'll put off watching a movie I want to watch, because it it would take me 2 mins to boot up the PS3 and log onto netflix. It's always bothered me why that was and I could never quite figure out why.

The odd thing about it was that when I finally get around to "doing" whatever it is I wanted to do I was fine. Happy even. But I have to drag myself into doing it kicking and screaming. No matter how many times I showed myself that "hey it's gonna be alright", and that there's nothing to worry about... Each time the anxiety of transitioning away from a thinking mode into a doing mode remains the same.

When I would see other people's lives that involved them being super busy and constantly doing things, or getting lost in the moment... like say video editing or something that involves them working on something 24/ 7... I would just be horrified and somewhat astounded (and a little bit jealous) at how they could work on it all the time. All my projects I want to spend the minimum amount of time possible doing.

I mean, I already knew that you couldn't think your way through everything... and you had to use the right tool for the right job. I knew you had to get lost in the moment to really be able to do certain tasks well... and for certain things I got pretty good at turning it off (i.e. musical improvisation). And I had known about INTP stuff for a few years, but I still didn't understand why it was such a big issue for me.

Then recently when I was reading about the individual MBTI functions (which I wasn't so familiar with) and how types will try to use their dominant functions / functional stack order to solve problems (especially some stuff Architect said) ... that's when it hit me.

I think I'm trying to use Ti for everything...

Since Ti is so comfortable for me, I think I try to do everything in my head first ... and I don't want to leave that space. I just want to sit and think, ponder, analyze aimlessly.... instead of actually making anything happen. I don't want to transition away from it into "doing" mode. I think I keep trying to use it for everything as default, when I should be using other things.

Sometimes when I have reserves of energy I can leave that space easily and transition into other modes. But when I'm low, or especially when I am stressed I feel it nearly impossible to leave.

In order for me to grow, I definitely feel like I need to get out of this mode more often.

 

[Magus]

I can definitely relate to this! Even the little things like feeling hungry but not being bothered to cook food for myself, procrastinating by going online to look up simple recipes, suddenly four hours have passed and I end up making toast wondering what I'm doing with my life.

I also get the same anxiety before doing things, sometimes more so than others. I have outgoing moments where I can be social but sometimes even the thought of meeting up with close friends later that day is enough to make me anxious in advance. Its odd because often when whatever it is happens, I don't feel uneasy at all. From what I've gathered reading about INTPs online, this isn't uncommon (just general anxiety preceding doing something) so I don't think we're alone. What is bad is when the anxiety, which is unjustified in itself, reaches such a point where I just don't follow through. More than once I've bailed on people without warning, for example at our college commencement party this year. Its obviously not a good habit as it totally undermines our ability to stick to something (and therefore actually accomplish what we should) but on a personal note I've also found it can also really negatively impact relationships.

I think an overrelience on Ti might be the root cause as well. From what I gather, many of the problems faced by different types is an over use of their superior function at the expense of everything else. With us, that translates into exclusive use of Ti for its own sake, backed up to a small extent by Si, giving data from past experiences/things already known creating the infamous Ti/Si loop of doom where nothing is done, we recede and can even develop symptoms of clinical depression.

I think generally we're most effective and happy when we use a combination of Ti and Ne, as Ne acts as sort of a net, capturing new information which can then be analysed by Ti's microlens for useful conclusions. Perhaps I'm wrong but then a good litmus test of if we're 'working properly' would be to see if we are thinking with a future or past focus (as Ne is future/possibilities based and Si more so for the past). The trick then is to train Ne or at least make sure we're always using it so our Ti keeps pulling us forward instead of eating us alive going around in circles. I'm just not sure how to do this though!

 

[Architect]

Perhaps. The mature use of your functions (assuming INTP in this example) is to primarily use your dominant function. That's why it's dominant! Imbalance isn't so much from not going away from your main function so much as not having adequate support.

For example, most of the time Ti should be in some kind of tug of war with Ne. Ne is the second in command, the advisor. Ti comes to a decision ... "it logically must be this way!" Ne comes in and says "are you sure? What about this ..."

Si is more of a Cabinet member, and trickster Fe plays in the shadow of the other functions. You don't really want to engadge Fe directly, you rather want to create a psychic environment where it can play its role.

So being in Ti most of the time analyzing is good, that's what you're here for. Make sure Ne gets the roost fairly often and is there to topple Ti off its perch here and there. Si needs to be the quiet advisor/professor in the corner musing on past life and learned information, and trickster Fe you usually don't see except in the corner of your eye. But you want to see Fe in that peripheral vision! Make sure your room is at a warm enough temperature to invite him/her in. *

And overall just be a relaxed and mature person.


* The rest of them, Se, Ni, Te and Fi are the Greek Chorus (call it the "Shadow Chorus"). Ignore them - until you have to use them and then just turn your brain off and do it. Like when I have to take out the garbage and use my Se to make sure I get it right. Just hump through it.

 

[Montresor]

This thread is awesome, everything Late and Mage said was spot on the money for me too.

 

[Jennywocky]

I used to have the Ti paralysis thing, endlessly analyzing, and it was difficult to move beyond becaus I just really enjoyed it; it was comfortable for me.

Sometimes we need the motivation to adjust how we do things, and we can't really make the changes until we reach a point where we're truly ready to make changes and accept the outcome of those changes. Because it will mean a change in how you handle situations, and perhaps even entering areas of discomfort.

Ne thinking is useful to break a rigid Ti lock. It's also useful in terms of working relationships, kind of the "illumination" tool -- sometimes I can see it working like a spray of lights I sent whirling out in space to illuminate space that I logically can't see into, and suddenly I can see shapes and forms and suddenly have much more information than I had before, so that I can continue to process. This is also helpful when it comes to relationships, since emotional empathy is a secondary process for me -- I usually access it through N-style "possibility" thinking ["What might this person be feeling, based on what I've learned, experienced, and observed so far in life?"], and then bend my rationality toward determining the best way to approach someone to get the results I hope for.

One area this is not as helpful that has been brought up is "issue working" (which people will generalize as a Te approach). It's so easy to sit around and conjecture, yet never do anything. I've had large periods in my life where I feel I did not accomplish anything because I just couldn't decide to set goals for my life. I did go through a huge experience in my life where I did have a goal, and I needed to reach it -- I couldn't afford to float or slough it off.

So I used my favored traits to determine what my overall goals and strategies were and brainstorm various ways to get there, determined the steps that would most likely lead me to success, and then just began the "checklist" approach and stayed on track for the long-term. That was probably the most difficult thing I've done simply because of the discipline I needed to exude over my normally adaptive/free-flow process. And I could apply the adaptability when my checklist ended up being inaccurate or insufficient, to get past bumps, but pretty much I just had to keep working that list until I got to the end.

I've found that when I could get into a groove, then it became easier -- like any form of self-discipline. You know, like once you get an exercise routine worked out and you do it for a few weeks, you get into a rut and it's easier... but if you start skipping, you might just fall out of it completely. You need to stick with it, but once you're in the groove, it's easier.

I'm currently at a place where I'm trying to get back into a groove with writing but having trouble committing... yet I know I don't want to spend another 20 years doing things I don't like and not doing and accomplishing the things I do like. It just means yoking myself, though, to these goals I want to accomplish. That's the cost. I still think that once you want it bad enough, then it will happen; but until then, it's difficult to commit sometimes.

 

[Late2theParty]

Perhaps. The mature use of your functions (assuming INTP in this example) is to primarily use your dominant function. That's why it's dominant! Imbalance isn't so much from not going away from your main function so much as not having adequate support.

Yes perhaps something about the way I framed the whole argument it isn't quite right. Maybe I'm talking about an aspect of something else.

The way I see it is that I like to stay in a sober analytical mode, but if I stay there too long... I feel like I get all backed up...and my ability to be more creative just dwindles to nothing. No more ideas pop into my head. I feel very locked up. I feel like something else wants to be let out. Perhaps Ne?

Maybe if I list an example. Okay, let's say... I want to write a piece of music. I usually have no idea what I want, but I always know when I find it. Usually the first thing that happens is that I try to imagine the entire piece in my head first. But this is almost always impossible.. I just don't have enough RAM and can really only get as far as some basic stuff, which is incredibly boring to me.

So I must go start throwing random shit together on the computer and start a trial and error process to see if I can find it, or what it isn't. It's this thing... going into this trial and error mode that somehow causes me anxiety. I want to go back to the first mode and try to just do it in my head... which I find odd because I've never really had that much "RAM" in my brain to begin with.. or much ability to only do things in my head, without pen and paper or a computer etc. But I keep desperately wanting to.

Curiously though after I go through a trial and error process and "do", I always feel better.

Maybe it's an issue of competency? I HAVE noticed... then when I can do something completely in my head first I usually feel really good about it. Maybe the issue is I need more experience until I can get to the point where I can do it all there?

This thread is awesome, everything Late and Mage said was spot on the money for me too.

I'm glad some of the replies people are getting something out of it, I thought I might be just venting about something that didn't make any sense. I guess we haven't quite ruled that out yet.


SOLUTIONS

I was gonna keep the thread more talking about why this was going on, or what it was about the functions that were causing it... but I do have some solutions that have worked for me. Since others seem to find this useful here they are.

1) the concept of persistant starting. (stolen from reddit)

Spoiler

[–]Chyndonax 53 points 1 year ago
It's called persistent starting. Anytime I give someone motivational advice this is the most important thing. It's super easy and works like a charm, as you now know.
Pick something you want to do but keep putting off. It can be anything. Tell yourself you'll spend five minutes doing it and then quit after five minutes if you still don't want to do it. After five minutes if you still want to quit then quit. No tricks or mind games. You won't want to quit. What happens is the part of our brain that plans and carries out our day to day actions takes over our bodies and we just keep doing what we're doing. Planing the next step, executing the current one. Autopilot in a way.
It's from a book called The Now Habit that came out in the eighties. Pretty good advice overall but this part is the best.

2. The Inner Game series of books. Lots of great techniques to get out of the way of your ability to learn and create things.


3. this video by John Cleese on creativity.. possibly the greatest thing on the subject I have ever heard (and I've read a lot about it)

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmY4-RMB0YY

 

[Late2theParty]

Wait wait... I think I have a little bit better explanation. I forgot about this concept. I think what I'm trying to get at... is that I want to enter a state of "flow" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29

But for whatever reason I keep pulling myself out by default. I want to sit and think (maybe daydream is a better word here) about entering that state... instead of actually being in it. Because if I did I would have to stop pondering and start doing. I have anxiety about transitioning into that state, but also going too long without it is a problem as well... makes me feel all constipated or something.

Maybe I had how the functions enter the picture wrong.... so how are the functions contributing to this issue? How could I better utilize them? Hmm... I'm going to have to think about it.

 

[Nick]

Watching that John Cleese video about creativity was very awesome indeed.

Here's some takeaways I got:

people that I find to be the hardest to be creative around are the people who need all the time, to project an image of themselves as decisive...to create this image they need to decide everything very quickly and with a great show of confidence.

Well, this behavior I suggest, sincerely, is the most effective way of strangling creativity at birth.

You can't be spontaneous within reason. -alan watts

But he really explains quite well how to be creative, or more specifically, who is creative and who is not. I can see us INTPs on the very creative side, if we have a drive and persistence to keep at a problem and not give up easily, aka let the Pness of laziness take over.

 

[Architect]

To reiterate, you don't want to transition out of Ti, but paradoxically support it properly, as @Jennywocky and others have said.

 

[Late2theParty]

Upon reviewing this little theory of mine, that "I'm using Ti for everything" and it's causing me to get caught in a loop of endless pondering... something always felt off about it. After a lot of thought... I think that I may be entirely wrong, and that I have it backwards.

I'm actually over using Ne, and not using Ti enough.


Whoah! That contradicts what I started out with! What made me change my mind? How could I have been so off?


HOW I CAME TO THIS CONCLUSION


1) I was confused about what was actually going on in my "analytic pondering mode" that I stay in when I want to avoid "doing" something.

Even though I was being analytical about the ideas I was pondering (at least far more analytical than the average person)... I was not staying on them for any significant length of time or any depth. I was just bouncing from one completely different topic to another endlessly. Even though I really wanted to find the underlying truth for certain topics, once it reached a certain level of complexity I would say "fuck it" and just move on to the next. I was constantly trying to find new and interesting ideas and concepts to turn over in my brain. A lot of times it was distractions on the internet, but it could also be just my own thoughts as well. This made me think I was actually using a lot of Ne.

I feel like I was still using Ti, but using it shallowly because I'm constantly looking for patterns an underlying truths... but in brief little spurts and not really anything substantial. I was really only dipping into it.

Another thing that fooled me was I confusing "thinking too much" and actually using "Ti". Not all thinking is analytical. Socially when I talk to people I shine when we are talking about something more deep and analytical. I noticed it's a place most fear to tread and / or are uncomfortable staying in very long. I was equating the "feeling" of that mode with the "pondering mode" I go into when I want to avoid "doing" something. And even though they are similar... my "pondering mode" is much more Ne like.. ceaselessly wandering.


2) When I would slow down and stay on one problem and really break it down...That always felt really good. Analyzing something thoroughly and creating models does feel "right". It kind of "puts the breaks" on Ne for a bit. This lead me to think that I wasn't using Ti as much as I thought I was. I also re read descriptions of Ti and Ne and realized things weren't quite matching up.



3) I realized I'm less afraid of doing, when I have worked out a model of how to approach the doing. I might actually be afraid more of just not having an appropriate model worked out first. Architect gave an example in his "Ask Architect" thread of "Cleaning the Garage" He said we should approach it by coming up some sort of model / plan first of the best way of tackling it (even if it involves paying someone else to do it) rather than just diving in and trying to figure it out as we go a long. This rings very true for me.

Normally I would jump into something like that... then become frustrated and overwhelmed and have a strong desire to give up and go back into "Pondering Mode" because that's more fun / comfortable.



EXAMPLE

Let's go back to one of the examples I had in my previous post.

I talked about wanting to write a song, but I would avoid doing the trial and error phase of it to figure out what I want. I think that I am actually less afraid of going through the trial and error process, and more afraid of seeing too big of a picture of possibilities and being overwhelmed. There's too many different ways I could go about the trial and error. I should be trying to analyze how best I could break the big picture down into bite sized chunks... and create some sort of map or model to follow. But at this stage I will usually desperately want to go back into pondering mode as a distraction. And I'm not pondering THIS problem... I usually start pondering a variety of completely unrelated things to distract myself.


NEW QUESTIONS THIS RAISES

Q) Am I not really an INTP then if I have been avoiding using my Ti?

A) I don't think so, the INTP profile fits me too well. I've known an ENFP and an ENTP (who's dominant is Ne) and while they can both handle analysis and abstract concepts pretty well when they want to, they predominantly used their Ne to help them do extroverted things involving people. I rarely do this. I feel like my Ne is always beckoning me to find some new idea or abstract concept to play with in my head for a bit. But it's always an inward activity, not an outward one and not people oriented.


Q) How in the world did you end up not using your Ti enough?

A) This is a very good question! I think mine is underdeveloped. I was looking at a test I recently took and I scored 84% on 'N' and 58% on 'T'. I'm not exactly sure how that factors into how strong each individual function is but I thought that might mean that my Ne could be a bit stronger than my Ti. I might favor trying to use Ne to fix a problem...which just kinds of sends me off in an aimless direction. The other theory is that I've somehow been conditioned to use more Ne.. or I use it as kind of a defense mechanism to distract myself and it kind of became addicting. I think at a few points in my life where I really needed make my Ti stronger I may have been overwhelmed by the big picture and didn't know what to do... so I just started distracting myself with Ne. And this became a habit.

Also I've always felt that even though I love analyzing.. I don't have a lot of "RAM" in my head. I can't hold a lot of thoughts in my head or maintain a running list for very long. I have to offload things off on paper or a computer pretty quickly, but the desire to break everything down in my head is always there. This tends to frustrate me rather quickly as it cuts me off. My thought process often goes like this...

"Let's break this down in my head!" > "Not enough RAM in brain! Getting frustrated!" > "Too overwhelmed.. fuck it .. distract with Ne!"


Q) If I'm over using Ne... then wouldn't that help me "do" more? Like actually go through with the trial and error process that I try so hard to avoid?

A) No, I'm using Ne as more of a comforting distraction away from how to tackle a problem.... instead of using it to find new angles on that single problem.

 

[Ink]

Use Ti to transition out of Ti. Use Ti to remind yourself you should use less Ti and only for that, when needed.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Don't expect yourself to be rid of apathy by further grasping Ti.

Usually it's more efficient to go and do stuff when you need to learn not to think. Also consider looking at ADHD/ADD although that shit is a bit silly since INTP's fit the bill automatically.

 

[Late2theParty]

Don't expect yourself to be rid of apathy by further grasping Ti.

Usually it's more efficient to go and do stuff when you need to learn not to think. Also consider looking at ADHD/ADD although that shit is a bit silly since INTP's fit the bill automatically.

I agree, it's not a bullet proof solution to giving myself motivation to do stuff. But after experimenting with it seems to make things go a lot smoother. And I feel a lot more centered when I break things down. I've considered what I was talking about above might be some form of ADD / ADHD but I don't know enough about those conditions and how they relate to type to really say.

 

[kvothe27]

I have the same problem and I employed adderall in an attempt to overcome it. However, I'm currently suffering the consequences of using it as a crutch because it's no longer effective for me. Or, at least, I'm less willing to endure the side effects. I learned and did a lot while it was effective or while I was willing to endure its side effects, but all the discipline I had built up prior to employing it as a solution to the problem you described has vanished.

I've found myself in a very unhealthy state as far as being an INTP. By that, I mean, all I really do is read and research what I find interesting, much to the detriment of what I need to be doing, which is studying for a career that employs my Ti most. Fuck.

 

[Late2theParty]

I have the same problem and I employed adderall in an attempt to overcome it. However, I'm currently suffering the consequences of using it as a crutch because it's no longer effective for me. Or, at least, I'm less willing to endure the side effects. I learned and did a lot while it was effective or while I was willing to endure its side effects, but all the discipline I had built up prior to employing it as a solution to the problem you described has vanished.

I've found myself in a very unhealthy state as far as being an INTP. By that, I mean, all I really do is read and research what I find interesting, much to the detriment of what I need to be doing, which is studying for a career that employs my Ti most. Fuck.

Sorry to hear that man. It's incredibly difficult to act authentically and make real progress for us at times (or most of the time really) isn't it?

One thing I've noticed is that the more stressed out I am the harder it is to concentrate and or focus / want to get shit done. My endless pondering mode goes into overdrive the more stressed or depressed I become. I definitely noticed when I feel like I'm on the right track in life, and my needs are being met I feel like I have a lot more clarity and "doing" feels a lot less like drudgery.

It starts to get into catch 22 though, where if you could focus you could get shit done easier and be closer to your goals.. but your goals aren't met so it stresses you out and you can't focus.