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Power and will

Animekitty

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Going back to working memory. I am able to think only a few things at the same time. But what I can do is still in my control. I know that having more things in my control would be preferable but only because it leaves less room to chance. If I was pushed to the limit of my abilities it would be preferable to doing nothing with high ability. Wasting one's life is always bad. But being unable to accomplish due to low ability is just as bad.

Will to power is a medium spot. Optimum control for the environment.

But control of the environment is not what Nietzsche had in mind. It was the control of the mind. Introversion that he was thinking of. To be satisfied with the inner world. That would be where ultimate control resides. This is what he held in high regard when referring to Buddhist meditation as will to power.

Nietzsche was an introvert so control of the internal was privileged to the external.

Because reproduction is all that matters to a biological organism, resources are the most valued. This could be a dominating faction when it comes to the will but only if reproduction is the goal. Humans have higher goals because nihilism states death is a loss of all so reproduction is not satisfactory as a goal. Who cares what your legacy is once your dead. But life is better lived so the will must satisfy life and power of will not resources.

What satisfies the will is what Life must be lived for because it is the only life.

So inner control is necessary.
 

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Elon Musk says we will be to superintelligence what cats are to us.

 

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The criteria for iq is arbitrary. decisions or what you do with information is extremely important not just how much you have. that is why the brain builds models of things and performed operations on them to get results. iq tests only show superficial results. different people have different operation sets. what we learn influences them.

adapt and turn to your advantage is not iq test measurable. there are so many things to adapt to the tests are limited in scope.

So intelligence is performing operations on a model of something. This is precisely how goals are planned and achieved. But it also means one preference of goals decides if one is high or low based on execution. A hard goal can only be done by a high intelligence person. The number or range of goals achievable, easy and hard is IQ.

Jerry
rank 100
Goal: Become famous


Mordecai the blue jay, and Rigby the raccoon
rank 105
Goal: deliver lunch


Morty and Summer
rank 110
Goal: finish school


Catra and Adora
rank 115
Goal: save their friendship


Spiderman
rank 120
Goal: save new york city


Optimus Prime
rank 125
Goal: save earth from the Decepticons


Matt Stone and Trey Parker
rank 130
Goal: write a popular tv show


Twilight Sparkle
rank 135
Goal: use friendship to save Equestria


Beth
rank 140
Goal: keep her marriage and family together


Oprah Winfrey
rank 145
Goal: run a media empire


Hell Boy
rank 150
Goal: fight the forces of darkness


Thanos
rank 155
Goal: population control


Jeff Bezos
rank 160
Goal: run a planetary delivery system


Professor Xavier
rank 165
Goal: prevent a war between humans and mutants


Issac Asimov
rank 170
Goal: use math to predict the future of human civilization


Rick Sanchez
rank 175
Goal: save his daughter with the portal gun


Uber Morlock
rank 180
Goal: survive the moon crash


Ray Kurzweil
rank 185
Goal: create superintelligence


Stephen Wolfram
rank 190
Goal: solve physics


Horde Prime
rank 195
Goal: rule the universe


Dr. Alexander Hartdegen
rank 200
Goal: reverse time to prevent the death of his lover
 

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The difference between a raven and a mouse is that even though they have the same brain size, a raven is much smarter. The reason is that a raven brain is folded inward. In other words, they have a recurrent model of things.

Control theory states that layers of feedback gives more control. A raven has more layers than a mouse brain thus can do more intelligent things.

Layers of control.
This is the key to intelligence.
 

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causality
if x then y
hypothesis-testing
correct prediction

Selection index
larger variables
collapse of the wave function

intuition
real-time statistics modeling

self-monitoring
 

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Layers of control make an attention mechanism. Which is a configuration of the network's focus. Inhibition and order of operation.
 

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Quantized IQ = (IQ/5)^2
 

EndogenousRebel

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Having a vision, being able to see the broad strokes and steps that will get you there and reducing unhelpful things that slow the emergence of your vision is I think the most effective way to will your way towards it. How else would I tolerate monotonous white collar work if I didn't have some fulfillable dream to latch on to.
 

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Ni just "knows".

Te "executes".

So if you are an INTJ mastermind you have mental control over goal achievement.

You probably have a "plan".

You see where all contingencies fail or succeed. You see the path ahead.
 

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Nietzche is describing what a man is evolving to or striving to evolve towards better.

he can also devolve. But some of his ideas are half baked.
 

ZenRaiden

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Nietzche is describing what a man is evolving to or striving to evolve towards better.

he can also devolve. But some of his ideas are half baked.
Aren't all ideas half baked?

I don't think those were ideas. More like observations and analysis of certain change and trend as well as certain analysis.

Some like Bertrand Russell would look on things with microscope, Nietzsche used a telescope, to put it in analogy.

Few fun facts. People no longer believe in God in much of advanced world.
They go to church for community, social reasons, to talk and sooth worldy worries.

There used to be times were people actually believed in witch craft and burned witches, saw demons, signs, put huge value on symbols, and soul.

Those times are kind of over. With education and more information, most of this nonsense was dispelled. Not that people don't hold absurd beliefs.

But most theologians know that bible is more about the message than actual fact.

Even if one were to take the bible in literal sense one would still not find much relation to reality.

Religion is relic of past in the sense it was practiced in the past.

Most people would hardly lift a finger for church, more like throw some money into the bin. But actually in the past you had to work for church. Like physically toil and work for church part time when it was needed. It was not all just for show of attendance. You actually had to put in the work.

Church goers today can be hardly arsed to do anything for church.
That is more real message here. Religion is more of a place holder for people to figure out the world. Socialize and moan about something.

Yes there are real sentiments and nostalgia in it, and values of some ethical value.

However no one sane would today with clear conscience burn a witch the way it was done in the past, because people got over religion.

Thus the term OVERMAN.

In todays world values can be all over the place and the difference between me and you or a rabbi is really so tiny its not worth mention.
 

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However no one sane would today with clear conscience burn a witch the way it was done in the past, because people got over religion.

Thus the term OVERMAN.

It doesn't take much to be an atheist and plenty existed before Nietzche. I think he meant more by overman than atheist. The overman is a product of evolution, transhumanism. It could be an extension as the frontal lobes were an extension.

I think it is the extent of greater reflective thought. The back and forth exchange of transferred information. That would create an internal locus of control. Being able to control the inner reality. Like Tesla.

Moving from outer control to inner control.

Inner reflection would spir great creativity.
 

ZenRaiden

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its a technology most likely getting abused by the ruling elites.

However no one sane would today with clear conscience burn a witch the way it was done in the past, because people got over religion.

Thus the term OVERMAN.

It doesn't take much to be an atheist and plenty existed before Nietzche. I think he meant more by overman than atheist. The overman is a product of evolution, transhumanism. It could be an extension as the frontal lobes were an extension.

I think it is the extent of greater reflective thought. The back and forth exchange of transferred information. That would create an internal locus of control. Being able to control the inner reality. Like Tesla.

Moving from outer control to inner control.

Inner reflection would spir great creativity.
Yeah I am sure Nietzsche was talking about that. :clown:
 

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However no one sane would today with clear conscience burn a witch the way it was done in the past, because people got over religion.

Thus the term OVERMAN.

It doesn't take much to be an atheist and plenty existed before Nietzche. I think he meant more by overman than atheist. The overman is a product of evolution, transhumanism. It could be an extension as the frontal lobes were an extension.

I think it is the extent of greater reflective thought. The back and forth exchange of transferred information. That would create an internal locus of control. Being able to control the inner reality. Like Tesla.

Moving from outer control to inner control.

Inner reflection would spir great creativity.
Yeah I am sure Nietzsche was talking about that. :clown:

I said three things.

Overman is more than just an atheist.
Overman is akin to transhumanism.
Overman is greater inner reflection.

The term transhumanism is not just a tech word. It means something above human.

We can speculate on what that means.
 

ZenRaiden

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I said three things.

Overman is more than just an atheist.
Overman is akin to transhumanism.
Overman is greater inner reflection.

The term transhumanism is not just a tech word. It means something above human.

We can speculate on what that means.
Everyone is more than atheist.
Atheist is just a label. A label that means you are without god. Nothing more and nothing else.
Nietzsche talked about human values, and yeah those would be more than the previous ones. Calling it transhumanism, is kind of superfluous.

Overman maybe greater inner reflections true.
 

EndogenousRebel

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In my understanding, I think Nietzsche understood that not everyone could be an Ubermensch. If I were to explaining it, they would essentially be a King worth dying for. Everyone can't be a King worth dying for. Then people would only die for themselves.

They don't transcend human matters, just human values and trivialities.

Say someone who is willing to be humiliated by his peers in order for some greater good/purpose, would have Uberman qualities.
 

ZenRaiden

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In my understanding, I think Nietzsche understood that not everyone could be an Ubermensch. If I were to explaining it, they would essentially be a King worth dying for. Everyone can't be a King worth dying for. Then people would only die for themselves.

They don't transcend human matters, just human values and trivialities.

Say someone who is willing to be humiliated by his peers in order for some greater good/purpose, would have Uberman qualities.
Yeah the world runs on humiliation.
 

EndogenousRebel

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In my understanding, I think Nietzsche understood that not everyone could be an Ubermensch. If I were to explaining it, they would essentially be a King worth dying for. Everyone can't be a King worth dying for. Then people would only die for themselves.

They don't transcend human matters, just human values and trivialities.

Say someone who is willing to be humiliated by his peers in order for some greater good/purpose, would have Uberman qualities.
Yeah the world runs on humiliation.
Scathing. I think the only difference is that an Uberman rationalizes it as some "just" cause. Though I'm sure the concept could be changed to be a moving goal post. If the Uberman is wrong in their estimation of moral principles and causation, they simply aren't an Uberman.
 

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Scathing. I think the only difference is that an Uberman rationalizes it as some "just" cause. Though I'm sure the concept could be changed to be a moving goal post. If the Uberman is wrong in their estimation of moral principles and causation, they simply aren't an Uberman.
they simply aren't an Uberman.
That is Nietzsches point. There is no Uberman. Uberman means above man.
If you are man you are not uberman.
Nietzsche saw that God is merely place holder for value. A value that prevents people from really growing beyond societal norms.

Nowdays people are more open to societal change and pushing norms, but that alone is merely the transition, not the end product.
By rebelling against norms, this does not really mean you are anything.

He simply means the values that are held as if true, aren't really enabling people to grow, beyond petty superstition and value beyond prescribed dogma.
This being true does not mean that rebelling against dogma makes you uberman.
It only opens you up to nihilism, meaningless void, a open space where anything can happen.
He does not actually offer any solution here. Here merely points out that unless people are willing to experience moral vacuum, they have no ability to establish better values than the norms.
 

EndogenousRebel

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In my understanding, I think Nietzsche understood that not everyone could be an Ubermensch.

Then why did he say it was in the future?

Would not plenty exist or how rare would they be, why?
I think this relates to religion and religions function to society. Nietzsche was worried that religion had a vital function in society and that once people didn't see it as a good belief system, it would leave a void of power that could be filled by things that are far worse than religion. He was right a la, Nationalism, Eugenics, Furrys. No doubt there are some positive things here. But basically he said Ubermen would be the way forward. A "strong" and "just" man basically.

I think even Peterson said something like this, how Jesus Christ is supposed to be a Uberman in the Abrahamic religions. A model that people should align to. Without religion, why align with this model if it's not going to guarantee me eternal bliss in the afterlife? I could just be a piece of shit if I wanted.

He does not actually offer any solution here. Here merely points out that unless people are willing to experience moral vacuum, they have no ability to establish better values than the norms.
I think he does make an attempt, as seen with his attempted synthesis of slave-master morality, but I suppose by his own definition that would be vain. Instead just modeling a decent human being.
 

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Nietzsche was worried that religion had a vital function in society and that once people didn't see it as a good belief system,
Nietzsche was not just worried, but observed that society with religion holds human nature to the lowest of standards. Which is true.
Religions don't really make people good people.
One could argue people are good in spite of religion.
People don't need religion to tell them that certain things are good or evil.
You look at history and humanity what people do can be very different depending on what they do and how they live as society.
Even Christianity has so many off shoots that its very different, but one thing is true, Christianity caters to fairly modest type of morality.
Servile and limited to doing the Jesus thing, which on a whole sounds great, until you get to the real thing. Where you realize people aren't really anything special, just blindly following certain expectations. Whether they are ethical or not they follow them and form their whole being along the values of certain limited ideas.

Are these values really that important on a whole?
Well he states that following these expectations leads to less awareness and thus puts people into repeating things over and over again.
Thus the whole of being of human nature is one schema and formula that repeats it self eternally. Which is again in many ways true.
 

EndogenousRebel

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Nietzsche was not just worried, but observed that society with religion holds human nature to the lowest of standards. Which is true.
That assessment might be true, but the statement isn't a fair one. Christianity is the brand, and the brand broadcasts "it's" "values" to look appealing to as many people as possible. Though, the Bible is pretty condemning for most people these days, as most people will not defend what it says literarily.

I can be attracted by Nike's "just do it" slogan (based off of a capital punishment priosner) because it appeal to certain industrious values, but me buying the shoes won't make me any more of an athlete or hard worker.

Is it fair to make that statement you made when there was clearly malevolent agents poisoning the well via the Vatican and other denominations capitalizing on popularity and opportunity?

Much like putting your zodiac sign in a dating profile, it's just to broadcast certain social nuances and group association. Why you would want to associate with such a group is up in the air. Maybe for a sense of understanding/hope. Or perhaps you just like the style. Or maybe it's an easy way to get into Astrological pussy.

Unlike Astrology, Christianity is cancelled, making bold and extreme assertions of reality and morality. As you imply, yeah, our standards of morality have shiftted towards a more mindful, inclusive, and perhaps humanitarian perspective.

Are these values really that important on a whole?
Well he states that following these expectations leads to less awareness and thus puts people into repeating things over and over again.
Thus the whole of being of human nature is one schema and formula that repeats it self eternally. Which is again in many ways true.
They are a prototype. I think whatever tehy spawn should be of value.
 

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Christianity was pretty savage in the old days of Nietzsche.
Divorce was frowned upon, but it was really something that could have negative consequences, but if adultery happened Oboy that shit was bad. Females could get ostracized for life for that.
Nietzsche would probably have a different view of Christianity today, but back then Christianity was really vile and limiting.
There was much nonsense to go about.
The brand of Christianity today is more like a lamer version, brand.

Despite Nietzsche being old fashioned in that time view, pretty sure he could easily see through the Christian hypocracy.
I think most intelligent people can, but not everyone is willing to admit to it openly, especially the devout christinas.
The issue is that values don't stem form limitations. Hence will to power.
Power being the ability to seek greater potential in people and not be OK with mediocre morality of nagging and guilt tripping and shaming.
The truth is he saw human rationality as given and also the Dionysian was probably counter for Christain ascetic values, of removing pleasure from life as means to getting close to God, which is pretty obvious hypocracy for anyone with half a brain.
Eating a chocolate chip cookie won't make Jesus wheep or make someone go into hell.
 

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I think even Peterson said something like this, how Jesus Christ is supposed to be a Uberman in the Abrahamic religions. A model that people should align to. Without religion, why align with this model if it's not going to guarantee me eternal bliss in the afterlife? I could just be a piece of shit if I wanted.

Who does Nietzche model the uberman after?

What was the Ubermans supposed to be besides a decent person?

what about: ape - man - overman?
 

EndogenousRebel

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I think even Peterson said something like this, how Jesus Christ is supposed to be a Uberman in the Abrahamic religions. A model that people should align to. Without religion, why align with this model if it's not going to guarantee me eternal bliss in the afterlife? I could just be a piece of shit if I wanted.

Who does Nietzche model the uberman after?

What was the Ubermans supposed to be besides a decent person?

what about: ape - man - overman?
There isn't a fixed model, I think only a couple axioms. You can look at a bunch of YouTube videos and the collection of them will give you a richer idea than just one person's interpretations.

Sherlock Holmes is an Uberman depending how you put it. James Bond is an Uberman depending how you put it. MCU Thanos could be an Uberman.

Essentially, the minute a hero in a story finishes all their story arcs they are an Uberman. Not to say they don't evolve, but that they evolve unwaveringly towards some personally devised purpose. That's my conception anyways.

Some people take this to mean that they have also solved human neuroses and have mastered their impulses. They have mastered their psychology, do not need to fear doubt, for they KNOW the right choice, anxiety is something they simultaneously understand but never experience. This is literarily inhuman and unachievable if you ask me. You can only face these things as gracefully as you can if you are to approach being a serious "Uberman".
 

sushi

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I think even Peterson said something like this, how Jesus Christ is supposed to be a Uberman in the Abrahamic religions. A model that people should align to. Without religion, why align with this model if it's not going to guarantee me eternal bliss in the afterlife? I could just be a piece of shit if I wanted.

Who does Nietzche model the uberman after?

What was the Ubermans supposed to be besides a decent person?

what about: ape - man - overman?
uberman is what a man is striving towards or the next stage of evolution. Higher self. It is what the man is becoming
 

Animekitty

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Some people take this to mean that they have also solved human neuroses and have mastered their impulses. They have mastered their psychology, do not need to fear doubt, for they KNOW the right choice, anxiety is something they simultaneously understand but never experience. This is literarily inhuman and unachievable if you ask me. You can only face these things as gracefully as you can if you are to approach being a serious "Uberman".

uberman is what a man is striving towards or the next stage of evolution. Higher self. It is what the man is becoming

The difference between ape and man is an evolutionary leap.

Whatever comes next will be qualitatively different to the same degree.

 

EndogenousRebel

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Some people take this to mean that they have also solved human neuroses and have mastered their impulses. They have mastered their psychology, do not need to fear doubt, for they KNOW the right choice, anxiety is something they simultaneously understand but never experience. This is literarily inhuman and unachievable if you ask me. You can only face these things as gracefully as you can if you are to approach being a serious "Uberman".

uberman is what a man is striving towards or the next stage of evolution. Higher self. It is what the man is becoming

The difference between ape and man is an evolutionary leap.

Whatever comes next will be qualitatively different to the same degree.

I'm commenting trivially but, don't think this "next step" is what is in mind in the uberman. They evolution/change just becomes something that they do without prompting themselves to do it. Something that is very inhuman.
 

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I'm commenting trivially but, don't think this "next step" is what is in mind in the uberman. They evolution/change just becomes something that they do without prompting themselves to do it. Something that is very inhuman.

To "get serious" about being an uberman. It would start with emotional regulation. Then rational motivation. Control over ones thinking. A complete balance over the psyche. Most people have wondering aimless minds. Their awareness is not centered. Uberman is the INTJ archetype. master over one's own mind.
 

EndogenousRebel

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I'm commenting trivially but, don't think this "next step" is what is in mind in the uberman. They evolution/change just becomes something that they do without prompting themselves to do it. Something that is very inhuman.

To "get serious" about being an uberman. It would start with emotional regulation. Then rational motivation. Control over ones thinking. A complete balance over the psyche. Most people have wondering aimless minds. Their awareness is not centered. Uberman is the INTJ archetype. master over one's own mind.
I would agree. Though if they don't have control/utility over sensing and feeling they are simply going to hit roadblocks they can't get around.
 

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I'm commenting trivially but, don't think this "next step" is what is in mind in the uberman. They evolution/change just becomes something that they do without prompting themselves to do it. Something that is very inhuman.

To "get serious" about being an uberman. It would start with emotional regulation. Then rational motivation. Control over ones thinking. A complete balance over the psyche. Most people have wondering aimless minds. Their awareness is not centered. Uberman is the INTJ archetype. master over one's own mind.
I would agree. Though if they don't have control/utility over sensing and feeling they are simply going to hit roadblocks they can't get around.

So just individuation. nothing greater but what would be greater?

so many are not serlock holms.
 

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Thanos as an uberman? It just seems that there is an element of intelligence and maturity needed in the character. Because we could define the uberman as just an alpha male in that case.

 

ZenRaiden

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Thanos as an uberman? It just seems that there is an element of intelligence and maturity needed in the character. Because we could define the uberman as just an alpha male in that case.
What is exactly alpha male or what do you mean by alpha male.
A part from people talking about this stuff it seems to me alpha male is just someone who is overly aggressive and as far as I know sigma male is anyone who is introvert.

That being said I marvel at the stuff you say. It soo nonsensical.
 
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