Pathology of INTPs

[ZenRaiden]

The biggest pathology of INTP is overanalysis.

INTP type approaches everything from analytical point of view and even conversations and experiences.

This is something that creates a gap between people.

For example INTP states objective analysis of something and people immediately think the INTP has some ulterior motive to do so. Either it comes of as whinning critcisms or some sort of accusation to other people, when INTP really has no such ulterior motive.

Its even more important that INTP have no qualm pointing out the obvious faults of things so in social situations it comes of as pessimism or negativism or even passive aggresive.

INTPs are oblvious to this so to them people just get angry and it seems to INTPs that people just cannot handle the truth, which incidentally is true and makes both the person and INTP kind of confused in communication.

Also INTPs pretty much analyse everything without exceptions. So when people approach things with just common sense it confuses the heck out of the situation when INTP and normal people meet.

Worst yet INTPs don't really think of analysis as something rare, but quite on contrary its default. So obviously there is lot of different ways of looking at reality.

Take for example how to open and go through doors. Weird. No its just INTP stuff, the basics.

 

[Cognisant]

Terrible absolutely terrible, he took his hand of the handle without first gripping the handle on the other side, what was to stop the door being caught in the breeze and slammed shut humiliating him and disrupting the peace of everyone around him?

 

[Black Rose]

Ti is all about internal order. Things must be precise. Articulated correctly. Have closure and reduce interpretation. Seek clarity.

INTP just has so much to think about. But it is not all frivolous. Established fact is established. No need to refrain from it if necessary but the INTP only cares about seeing things in new ways not rehashing like S types. INTP does better than any other type seeing things from all points of view. All angles. It is finding new things to analyze that the INTP struggles with because once you think through everything how do you find something new?

 

[ZenRaiden]

Terrible absolutely terrible, he took his hand of the handle without first gripping the handle on the other side, what was to stop the door being caught in the breeze and slammed shut humiliating him and disrupting the peace of everyone around him?

I think Finish people are a bit wild in disposition. Its a remnant of ugrofin nature.
Its only in past 100 years their temperament became more controlled.
We are talking about people living in the cold harsh wild nature.

Not exactly reserved refined socialites. Although standoffish and reserved.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Ti is all about internal order. Things must be precise. Articulated correctly. Have closure and reduce interpretation. Seek clarity.

INTP just has so much to think about. But it is not all frivolous. Established fact is established. No need to refrain from it if necessary but the INTP only cares about seeing things in new ways not rehashing like S types. INTP does better than any other type seeing things from all points of view. All angles. It is finding new things to analyze that the INTP struggles with because once you think through everything how do you find something new?

I am not sure I agree. You can always do over all thoughts multiple times.

Every thought can be pushed to a more elementary premise or axiom or divided in to finer detail.

Every thought can be always taken a step further.

For example in metaphysics people talk about soul, but very few actually go further and ask what a soul is.

Is it indivisble entity. Is it merely a perfect energy signature or a energy innert in physical realm, that interacts only on some other energy frequency.

Is soul something that has finit energy or something that can grow and contain more than one energy.

Or perhaps soul can only impact energy on quantum scale and is evenly distributed.

Is it just space time formation with platonic form that can be only put into dimensions that measure numerically in higher dimensions, but cannot be reduced to the dimensions we perceive with our senses and instruments.

Clarvoyance could be a energy signature of electrochemicals particles in your mind interacting with energy fields in higher dimension where all of time is but, one subdimension just like a side of square where you can see past present future all at once. Those energy signature no matter how small filter through electric impulses into your brain allignig with chicken bones you used to divine future, and because of exact position of those bone in space and time your higher conscioscness can peer into the future. Since higher spatial dimensions don't have same rules ideas about time, coherence causality energy etc might not even apply. Even such laws as law of conservation of energy might not be applicable there.

Space might have infinite qualities so you could have a square with x size and fit a square with x + infinity inside it and it would be so small that you could put another infinite amount of squares into it etc.

 

[Black Rose]

soul is singular (sole)

Sole comes from the Latin solus, meaning "alone," and it can describe being the only person involved in something, like being the sole member of the Special People Club. As a noun, your sole is the bottom of your foot.

There is only one of you. one identity. that is what a soul is. it is not anything you can place in a box. it's dynamic and not limited to a single group of atoms.

the simplicity is so simple I don't see why people have a problem understanding it.

You are not me I am not you. I alone am me. SINGULAR. me is me nothing else.

---

Once you get down to the fundamentals there is no further discussion other than building up from there. axioms are not something we question but what we build with.

 

[dr froyd]

the socially intelligent thing to do is not engage in analytical thought at all in social scenarios. I think it's less a matter of pathology and more a matter of learning that most people operate primarily in an ape-brain mode. You create a very difficult situation for them by engaging in analytical thought. An ape is entertained by socially oriented gossip, discussions about food, family, sports (sports like football tend to engage the tribal instincts) and other topics which don't involve the more cerebral parts of the brain

one can either isolate oneself from it or embrace it, and the way I embrace it is that I do indeed engage in discussions about food and sports, but everything I say on these topics contain subtle ironies and sardonic jokes which entertain me. I know this all sounds elitist and pompous but wtf else am I supposed to do?

 

[Cognisant]

There is only one of you. one identity. that is what a soul is. it is not anything you can place in a box. it's dynamic and not limited to a single group of atoms.

Once you get down to the fundamentals there is no further discussion other than building up from there. axioms are not something we question but what we build with.

I like that.

Does this mean that anything that has an identity attributed to it therefore has a soul of sorts? Can a work of art have a soul? What about a city? What about something more abstract like software or a fictional character?

 

[Black Rose]

There is only one of you. one identity. that is what a soul is. it is not anything you can place in a box. it's dynamic and not limited to a single group of atoms.

Once you get down to the fundamentals there is no further discussion other than building up from there. axioms are not something we question but what we build with.

I like that.

Does this mean that anything that has an identity attributed to it therefore has a soul of sorts? Can a work of art have a soul? What about a city? What about something more abstract like software or a fictional character?

I think that if an entity has qualia because a chair may exist but what separates it from the house. Are the chair and the house having a collective experience or are they separate?

Separate experience is essential to soul identity.

 

[Cognisant]

What happens if the continuity of consciousness is broken?

Suppose I'm frozen and to resurrect me they scan my brain and somehow upload the engram to a cloned body, so I have the same memories, the same body, I am for all intents and purposes ostensibly me. But then they thaw out my frozen corpse and use nanotechnology to repair the damage and resuscitate it, now there's two of me with the same body and the same memories, both of whom believe they are the real me, are they both me or neither?

 

[Black Rose]

are they both me or neither?

think of you right now
when you cut yourself do you feel the pain, yes you do.

now cut the two clones, is the pain felt by you or just them?

only you feel your own pain, no one else.

 

[ZenRaiden]

are they both me or neither?

think of you right now
when you cut yourself do you feel the pain, yes you do.

now cut the two clones, is the pain felt by you or just them?

only you feel your own pain, no one else.

SO body and soul are the same thing?

 

[Black Rose]

are they both me or neither?

think of you right now
when you cut yourself do you feel the pain, yes you do.

now cut the two clones, is the pain felt by you or just them?

only you feel your own pain, no one else.

SO body and soul are the same thing?

Your body can change and you are still you. But you can't do much without a body.

 

[ZenRaiden]

This is hilarious

 

[ZenRaiden]

 

[Black Rose]

The biggest pathology of INTP is overanalysis.

During my psychotic episode Jan 7-12, Ne made me hyper-aware of possibilities that spiraled out of control. I knew I was going insane. Everything was true at the same time. Because I was not sober I had to do reality checks over and over 5 days straight. I knew I should not run into traffic like last time. Noises at night were not bombs. Clean things. Be nice to mom. I was not able to function, I was too high. Luckily I never went full-blown schizo. I was a primitive in a jungle at night. Si unleashed.

 

[ZenRaiden]

 

[Puffy]

A few things I sometimes notice on the forum:

Superiority complex - rooted in thoughts that even if not directly stated imply that INTPs are superior to other types and SFs are like muggle normies, etc. This is usually as a compensation for insecurity.

Seriousness - another way of framing analysing everything is taking everything too seriously. Learning to just lighten up and play helps in bonding with others and small talk as well. Over-thinking can also be due to anxiety.

I suspect the ‘pathology’ is rooted in rejection. INTPs struggle to fit in and feel rejected by their peers, so they slowly come to justify it around beliefs that they’re different to others, fortify themselves in their ‘intelligence’, and resort to loner behaviours and pushing down their emotional side as a coping mechanism.

That’s the way I’ve come to see my early engagement with the forum anyway. I see it more as a sub-type of people who identify as INTP and I don’t presume it applies to everyone here.

 

[Daddy]

Not meaning to be ironic to the content and context of the thread (okay, maybe a little), but doesn't "overanalysis" have multiple meanings that all imply different things, some good, some bad, some not good or bad?

I know with myself (whatever my type), I have to overanalyze in order to move forward or my mind becomes restless, kind of like playing a video game and having multiple paths, but knowing that if you don't go down all paths, you will feel like you can't really commit to one without knowing them all. Same thing with problem solving, need to think things through myself and come to conclusions and understanding on my own, not just regurgitate knowledge or I can't commit to learning that knowledge. Some people don't care about this and don't mind just being told what's truth, but it's fun to connect dots and such. I think everyone has a different mind that enjoys different things and some people can genuinely enjoy overanalyzing at times.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

The impossible game was something I played super stubbornly. I was convinced that memorizing the map was a waste of time. I still am. I was better off just training my impulse reactions to react correctly in my mind. I understood the draw back and handicap I was giving myself, but when the game is just goin left to right while excavating obstacles, that just seemed like the best thing to do to minimize thinking and maximize gameplay improvement.

My ENFP friend noticed that I kept dying at the same spot and made me realize this difference in people, of which is of course should be kinda expected.

As opposed to a game like Super Hexagon (these games have great soundtracks btw) where you're basically similarly avoiding obstacles, but at random, I was a beast at that game.

One circumstances pathology is another circumstances strength.

Stereotypically, an INTP is great for society, but would suck at socializing, but realistically, removing temperament from the equation, you in theory would have someone who would appear well adjusted, trust worthy, and competent, which many would want to befriend.

Like any pathology, it would lie in their inability to adapt aspects of themselves that a severely deficient or overcompensated. I think the ultimate INTP would be diagnosed with asperges/autism or something. Not just over analysis but compulsion to receive inputs of information and fearing social interaction. This includes anti-social traits others have mentioned.

Note mention of asperges isn't meant to classify anyone, just an example. Not sure how to else we can pathologize INTPs more. By definition, pathology implies that people wouldn't feel comfortable around you while you're... Exhibiting pathological behaviors. So maybe you aren't socially desirable in that situation unless you're exceptional like Rain Man or something.

 

[BurnedOut]

When an INTP rises above MBTI and assimilates something of each type and get even more confused about themselves for being too meta

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I broke something expensive in one of the stupidest ways possible, and instead of being productive, I made this graphic instead. Is this pathology?

Sublimation is the highest form of coping so, I mean, I'm totally fucking over it. It doesn't bother me at all.......

 

[Black Rose]

View attachment 5896

I broke something expensive in one of the stupidest ways possible, and instead of being productive, I made this graphic instead. Is this pathology?

Sublimation is the highest form of coping so, I mean, I'm totally fucking over it. It doesn't bother me at all.......

Isn't this just dialectical materialism?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

View attachment 5896

I broke something expensive in one of the stupidest ways possible, and instead of being productive, I made this graphic instead. Is this pathology?

Sublimation is the highest form of coping so, I mean, I'm totally fucking over it. It doesn't bother me at all.......

Isn't this just dialectical materialism?

I did this over the course of an hour or so between tasks. I have no clue, sure I'd like an explanation for the label. I quite like Socratic dialectical method, so maybe that's what your picking up. Obviously it's not perfect, but if you disagree with any of the statements by all means do divulge your argument. Unless it's a small quibble, like tone or whatever.

 

[ZenRaiden]

 

[Black Rose]

View attachment 5896

I broke something expensive in one of the stupidest ways possible, and instead of being productive, I made this graphic instead. Is this pathology?

Sublimation is the highest form of coping so, I mean, I'm totally fucking over it. It doesn't bother me at all.......

Isn't this just dialectical materialism?

I did this over the course of an hour or so between tasks. I have no clue, sure I'd like an explanation for the label. I quite like Socratic dialectical method, so maybe that's what your picking up. Obviously it's not perfect, but if you disagree with any of the statements by all means do divulge your argument. Unless it's a small quibble, like tone or whatever.

It's just that Karl Marx came up with, materials shape society, and society shapes materials. You put the individual as a cognitive agent in there.

Everything sounding the individual makes the individual the product of the environment. Technology advances as the individual changes with it.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

View attachment 5896

I broke something expensive in one of the stupidest ways possible, and instead of being productive, I made this graphic instead. Is this pathology?

Sublimation is the highest form of coping so, I mean, I'm totally fucking over it. It doesn't bother me at all.......

Isn't this just dialectical materialism?

I did this over the course of an hour or so between tasks. I have no clue, sure I'd like an explanation for the label. I quite like Socratic dialectical method, so maybe that's what your picking up. Obviously it's not perfect, but if you disagree with any of the statements by all means do divulge your argument. Unless it's a small quibble, like tone or whatever.

It's just that Karl Marx came up with, materials shape society, and society shapes materials. You put the individual as a cognitive agent in there.

Everything sounding the individual makes the individual the product of the environment. Technology advances as the individual changes with it.

Well if you want to take that further back, Hegel's dialectic implies that existence is and is not. Human cognition in that graph is manifested by reality, thus is reality, but it also has the ability to change reality. Our necessity to decipher these things is just us dealing with reality, it's not necessarily separate from it. It is and is not.

Or whatever, I don't think anyone understands Hegel.

 

[Black Rose]

It's just that Karl Marx came up with, materials shape society, and society shapes materials. You put the individual as a cognitive agent in there.

Everything sounding the individual makes the individual the product of the environment. Technology advances as the individual changes with it.

Well if you want to take that further back, Hegel's dialectic implies that existence is and is not. Human cognition in that graph is manifested by reality, thus is reality, but it also has the ability to change reality. Our necessity to decipher these things is just us dealing with reality, it's not necessarily separate from it. It is and is not.

Or whatever, I don't think anyone understands Hegel.

I wrote an essay on that once.

Truth and physics

I was thinking about what the epistemological grounding for Truth is and I came to the conclusion that reality is all-inclusive. The laws of physics somehow allows Truth to exist. The laws of physics allows the ego to be aware of knowledge. Cognition or “thinking” is by the laws of physics. The basics of physics are Atoms in motion but it’s more than that. Atoms also stick together and get ripped apart from one another. This allows for self-regulation and evolution. Now what is special about consciousness is that it comes from physics in a unique way. Consciousness points inward. It is reflective and thus cybernetic. It guides the direction of itself. And that is where physics intersects with Truth.
Truth an only be known when a prediction is made. The confirmation of an internal model of the world sets boundaries for what is real and what is not. True and false.
We know what is true from the correct predictions we made building on the representations we have of the world. Our entire being is a reflection of reality in perception. So the world is inside us as we are inside the world. I know rocks fall down because of gravity and any rock not falling down but floating in mid-air will make me question, not gravity but some other reason why this happens. A violation in my knowledge about gravity is not happening but I am ignorant of other forces at play. No one is omniscient and it is not required to know Truth. Simple fact is that to know any truth at all requires the laws of physics to allow consciousness.
Knowledge begins with perception. We see the apple fall and know things fall. then it becomes more abstract such as “Justice”. Justice is not an action but a category of actions in degree. 5-year-olds can’t understand this but 8-year-olds can. 8-year-olds have reached concrete operations in psychological terms. Abstraction is age 12 with formal operations. Nowhere in nature is there such a thing as justice but that is not true. Our brains see real patterns so really the person saying no justice every has no abstract thinking. This is not making the mistake of confusing abstractions for objects of reality. Justice is a pattern and if justice was not in reality we would not see it and not think about it.
meta-predictions are where I can say Truth is based in physics. They are the cause of abstractions necessary for the epistemology. The world is in your head and that is how you know.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

There is certainly a "total" semantic landscape that has emerged. I'm not so sure this is separate from the human cognition, which is why tools are in the middle. I'm using tools very broadly of course, but yeah.

It's not possible to think about something no one else has thought about unless you are see experience something no one else has OR create something different using a combination of of already cognized things, via your own cognition. This is how neurons come up with new ideas. They bounce around in your head and make something new.

I didn't use "semantic/semiological landscape" and instead opted for necessity for semiology because it's not a real thing until you start picking and choosing what is important and what is not.