Ne...

[Zionoxis]

[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica]I am not sure about you guys, but this description below (I was looking over cognitive processes to get a better understanding about myself and this has gotten me in trouble on SO many occasions. Do you guys get into arguments often, and if so, how often does this occur? (Read spoiler for actual description)
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Spoiler

Where the extraversion of the iNtuition function becomes obvious is during discussions, especially heated ones. In contrast to INTJs, an INTP will often make controversial, speculative points of argument, often annoying the discussion-partner, and make them in such a way as to leave the impression that he is very serious about what he says. In reality, the INTP is not actually even certain himself whether he really stands by what he is saying, but his Ne strongly suggests that there must be a core of truth there. The purpose then of his outspoken style of argument is to sharpen his own intuitive understanding by testing the reaction of the listener, and indeed to examine the logic of his own arguments in real time while speaking them out.

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[Dr. Freeman]

You could say I have that problem. My father is an ISTJ and we argue quite a bit. He argues with me because (I think) he sees my arguments as a challenge to his power or authority. I do it because it's fun and because it helps keep me sharp. He has gotten to the point where he practically says, "It is that way because I said it is, deal with it."
That is annoying to no end.

 

[thelithiumcat]

Spoiler

You could say I have that problem. My father is an ISTJ and we argue quite a bit. He argues with me because (I think) he sees my arguments as a challenge to his power or authority. I do it because it's fun and because it helps keep me sharp. He has gotten to the point where he practically says, "It is that way because I said it is, deal with it."
That is annoying to no end.

My dad's a bit like that. He's also an ISTJ. Ironically, he thinks I'm rather impractical (although I can see how I would seem that way from an ISTJ point of view because they get things done in the real world and we get them done in our minds). I say ironically because I'm usually very practical-minded.

I have a problem that when I'm arguing with one of my SJ parents I'll suddenly switch into genuine, slightly excitable 'lets find the answer to my new question!' mode. It really throws them off (and sometimes I do it purposefully to get out of it because I hate being around arguments) because usually my family's arguments (SJ, FJ and SFJ) are just loud and explosive and I get out at the earliest opportunity. It's difficult to have an argument with them because it's usually just them rambling (occasionally pausing and staring because they can't quite believe I'm not arguing right back like anyone else would) while I listen, think about how they've misinterpreted the situation, how it's pointless that they're making it into an argument and whether it's worth correcting them when they probably won't understand.

I've also observed something interesting with my Ne today: it's much easier to try something and then, if it fails, remove it all and start from scratch with the knowledge of the previous attempt than to try to fix an existing solution. I guess that proves I have Ne and not Ni.

 

[Reluctantly]

My dad's a bit like that. He's also an ISTJ. Ironically, he thinks I'm rather impractical (although I can see how I would seem that way from an ISTJ point of view because they get things done in the real world and we get them done in our minds). I say ironically because I'm usually very practical-minded.

I have a problem that when I'm arguing with one of my SJ parents I'll suddenly switch into genuine, slightly excitable 'lets find the answer to my new question!' mode. It really throws them off (and sometimes I do it purposefully to get out of it because I hate being around arguments) because usually my family's arguments (SJ, FJ and SFJ) are just loud and explosive and I get out at the earliest opportunity. It's difficult to have an argument with them because it's usually just them rambling (occasionally pausing and staring because they can't quite believe I'm not arguing right back like anyone else would) while I listen, think about how they've misinterpreted the situation, how it's pointless that they're making it into an argument and whether it's worth correcting them when they probably won't understand.

What you are describing is an introverted process. I agree it's intuitive, but it's the involution of extroversion that makes introversion. What you described here is not against Jung's Ni and is not descriptive of extroversion, of enforcing or exerting your mind in some way as your family expects you to do. Nor are you trying to summarize the experience into categories that you feel simplifies the predicates of what is going on between those people (Ti).

I've also observed something interesting with my Ne today: it's much easier to try something and then, if it fails, remove it all and start from scratch with the knowledge of the previous attempt than to try to fix an existing solution. I guess that proves I have Ne and not Ni.

I don't see how you reached that conclusion at all. Why exactly do you believe that's a proper association of Ni and Ne?

 

[Reluctantly]

[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica]I am not sure about you guys, but this description below (I was looking over cognitive processes to get a better understanding about myself and this has gotten me in trouble on SO many occasions. Do you guys get into arguments often, and if so, how often does this occur? (Read spoiler for actual description)
[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica]

Spoiler

Where the extraversion of the iNtuition function becomes obvious is during discussions, especially heated ones. In contrast to INTJs, an INTP will often make controversial, speculative points of argument, often annoying the discussion-partner, and make them in such a way as to leave the impression that he is very serious about what he says. In reality, the INTP is not actually even certain himself whether he really stands by what he is saying, but his Ne strongly suggests that there must be a core of truth there. The purpose then of his outspoken style of argument is to sharpen his own intuitive understanding by testing the reaction of the listener, and indeed to examine the logic of his own arguments in real time while speaking them out.

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I agree this is Ne. But someone who uses Ni will use Ne at times if they feel it's in their temporary interest.

IMO,

It's not something they are going to be as comfortable with, since it's purpose is only for inquiry and furthering their understanding and thought.

Someone with Ne second function, uses Ne much more broadly and creatively. It can be used to convince or mislead or do any number of things INTPs usually have no interest in.

 

[Dapper Dan]

What you are describing is an introverted process. I agree it's intuitive, but it's the involution of extroversion that makes introversion. What you described here is not against Jung's Ni and is not descriptive of extroversion, of enforcing or exerting your mind in some way as your family expects you to do. Nor are you trying to summarize the experience into categories that you feel simplifies the predicates of what is going on between those people (Ti).

It's a combination of all his functions. He uses Ti to figure out his answer. Ne tries to understand his parents' arguments. Si tells him that it conflicts with what he already knows. Fe gets pissed off and threatens to show itself. Ti puts Fe on lockdown, but sustained arguing will keep Ti from working and will feed Fe until it finally blows up. Ne can prevent this by changing the subject, which is, I think, what thelithiumcat meant by "lets find the answer to my new question" mode.

Enforcing and asserting your mind is the job of extroverted judging (notice all the Js in his family). Perceiving functions are different.

 

[Owfin]

I argue so that my opponent can provide opposing evidence. I don't want to be ignorant. I do not want to glue an inkling in my head that is wrong. It is easy for my brain to mold other ideas around something, so I do not want that something to be wrong.

 

[Zionoxis]

My arguments with FJ's usually tends to having me get heated and trying to say something without thinking and saying a lot of...either nothingness, or making a viscous mistake in my thought process. I once blurted that with my practical abilities for the job I pursue, I could buy friends....