Motivation and laziness

[QSR]

So I'm looking for tips on overcoming our propensity for distraction and laziness. I'm like a chimp chasing the shiny object. Meaning I get very easily distracted by any number of things, usually trying to learn new information. It seems like a somewhat dysfunctional way to live in "the real world."

I've had SJ's tell me I need to push myself or that I'm just plain lazy. They tend to get very agitated by my approach to life, and I agree that I'm lacking particularly in the J aspect. I love dreaming up projects but rarely get around to doing them.

Anyway this is having a negative affect on my bank account so I'm looking for a way to be more focused. Tips and analysis welcome. Basically I want to harness my INTPness for greater good, as much as that's possible.

 

[Yossarian]

I was thinking of posting something similar. Only it's grades at this point that is being affected negatively not money. So uh, no help here, only sympathy. I can only seem to focus on something that I am not supposed to be focusing on at the time. Like, when I should do homework, instead I will get on wikipedia and follow links. I learn a lot usually, about something, but it's not what I am supposed to be doing.

Neurostimulants maybe? caffeine? For me it helps my thinking but I still seem to "chase the shiny object".

 

[Melkor]

Why bother?

It's not like you can't be a very lazy genius...

you might not get anywere, but you can be happy with your own humble intellect..

 

[Astridian]

As long as you chase the shiny objects, I would hesitate to call yourself lazy. I, too, am gifted (or plagued) with a fairly broad interest in a great many things. For me the problem isn't that I'm not motivated, the problem is that I'm not motivated to do anything practical. This is only natural for me since I place a higher value on understanding things than accomplishing things out there in the world.

You mentioned wanting to harness your INTPness for greater good, so my first suggestion is to determine or find for yourself, in a subjective way, what the greater good is. The advantage to having this clearly in mind is that it gives you something more concrete on which to focus. I wouldn't stand for anyone else telling me what it means to be successful, which is why I'm recommending you determine or find it for yourself.

If you already know what you want for yourself in general, but still can't seem to overcome distractions, perhaps your vision is too vague. It can help to provide as many details as possible, and write out some short-term, as well as long-term goals.

Try to avoid doing boring things, if you can. If you absolutely must do something which doesn't interest you at all, try to trick yourself into thinking it's interesting. If you're interested in computer science, think about how you might automate the boring task that you're stuck doing (if you found an answer, you might never get stuck doing it again). If you're interested in math, think about different ways you might represent the task mathematically; who knows, you might come across some way of carrying the task out more efficiently or thoroughly (or even just differently). If you're interested in philosophy, include your current task in a thought experiment, or try to explore it from the standpoint of some philosophical system you've studied recently.

What I try to do, is to view everything as an opportunity to learn something. This may not always be possible, but I'm trying to steer myself into jobs in which I have ample opportunity to learn new things (things which actually matter, like relationships and patterns rather than boring details). Even when I'm forced to waste my brain space with seemingly pointless details, I try to use the opportunity to practice memory techniques.

Well, hopefully you'll find something useful in what I've written. Good luck to you!

 

[cheese]

I agree with Astridian; you have to question society's definition of time well-spent, especially considering it's mostly run by people whose types are in direct opposition to ours. At the same time it's worth noting that they're in power because they've managed to Get Stuff Done - something that shouldn't be underrated.

I'm extremely P and my father is extremely J - I've learnt a lot from him about achieving. Concrete, detailed goals and plans like Astridian mentioned are definitely the way to go; along with that you need to exercise the "discipline muscle". Like real muscles, by exercising it you make it more capable of performing a variety of things, not just at performing that exercise.

You should set big, long-term goals, and lots of extremely achieveable little goals to turn discipline into a habit. With the succes of these little goals you build positive reinforcement, exercise that muscle and turn achieving things (according to your definition of achievement) into second nature.

Example of weight-loss:
Long-term goal: To lose X amount in Y days (make those specific numbers)
Eg of little goal: Substitute today's Coke with water.

[I believe a P that can function as a J has the best of both worlds because he's capable and can turn his J-ness of whenever he wants, something a J would find more difficult.]

So basically:
1. Define success
2. Set specific long-term goal in line with 1.
3. Set lots of little goals in line with 2.
4. Reward yourself after accomplishing each goal (serves as incentive before and positive reinforcement after)
5. Readjust goals as needed, without guilt.

The main ideas are clarity of vision and exercising discipline in all areas.

Being a P I haven't actually put any of this information to use but don't let that discourage you! And if at the end of the day you decide that practical achievement simply doesn't interest you - just let go, as long as you get the daily necessities sorted.

 

[Yossarian]

So basically:
1. Define success

That seems very daunting to me for some reason. After that it seems like a good plan though. Typical INTP, stuck overanalyzing step 1.

 

[cheese]

^HAHA, yes I know what you mean!

Also, did anyone notice how classic INTP Morgoth's response was:

"Why bother?

It's not like you can't be a very lazy genius...

you might not get anywere, but you can be happy with your own humble intellect.."

Quite chucklesome, especially knowing how much I cling to that myself. The usual complacency in potential. I suspect we're all like that here.

 

[naberus]

Start small and build up.

This is just on the spot so bear with me:
Think of 7 things you need to do (such a housework, reading, etc, anything considered a small routine activity), write it down on a list and try to accomplish one thing each day of the week. If you forget/don't do an activity, fear no it can be a lesson in self discipline. You can simply do two activities on the same day in order to complete your list on time.

All of this comes down to you and you forcing yourself to do things reguardless of whether you feel like doing them or not.

Just try it.

 

[QSR]

Yeah I go through phases where I'll make lists and use a planner. I'll also go through periods of good productivity followed by weeks of doing very little. I guess it's just a matter of trying to be more consistent, no matter how I feel. Either that or trying to feel better each day so I can get more done. I think it will help if I force myself to use a planner in the morning...sticking to it is always the problem though....

 

[Artifice Orisit]

The Symbolic Method
The human mind is wired to associate symbols with concepts, you can use this as a means of motivation by harnessing specific memories and associating them with a symbol. To do this draw a symbol on your arm, better yet write "Don't be Lazy", better still get that as a tattoo, or if your really desperate make a physical scar. Now focus on whatever marker you are using and make sure to study every detail; as you do this remember every time laziness has brought you ill, every missed deadline, every moment of laziness associated shame.
Now whenever you can't focus glance at the marker, if done right the mental shock from exposing yourself to these negative emotions and memories will re-motivate you.

The Analytical Method
If a particularly large and confusing task is sapping your motivation, pick it apart with analysis and make as many smaller tasks out of it as possible. By ignoring the size of the task and focusing on small aspects of it you can build motivation with every minor task you complete; basically the idea is to delude yourself until your work is finished.

The Body Tuning Method
Sleep, drink water, repeat. A method used by Buddhist monks, by denying the mind entertaining stimulation and providing it with an optimal conditions for focusing eventually even the most boring task will seem entertaining. This also helps improve the quality of your work as in the modern world we often ignore basic needs like ample sleep and simple hydration.
Water itself is a fantastic tip, the brain requires more water than any other organ in the body (per size ratio) and when the body is running low on water mental processes slow down to reserve this resource.

The Habitual Method
Do the same thing every day and your instinctive mind will start doing it for you, this is why most people can think easily whilst on the toilet. Also doing the same thing at the same time every day will induce a level of expectation from the instinctive mind, a powerful yet subtle form of motivation.

The P-J Switch Method
Work yourself up into a mental frenzy and let your inner "J" take over; make sure to have all the needed materials, information and etc nearby so that you don't drift back into your natural "P" state.

The Relativity Method
Get the biggest, heaviest, most boring textbook you can find find and whenever your feeling bored start reading it. Hopefully by comparison to the textbook you work will seem fascinating and thus boredom will drive you back to it; but if you end up reading the whole textbook, well your doomed.

Naturally all this advice is coming from someone who is procrastinating by writing it; why else would I be doing it?

 

[QSR]

Yeah I would be a lot more on-task if there were no internet.

 

[Astridian]

Yeah I would be a lot more on-task if there were no internet.

I doubt I would. I'd just buy more books and go to the library more often.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

This strategy I just learned is pretty funny- I'm scared to try it. You make your new browser tabs start at this page: http://www.merlinmann.com/rightnow/

 

[sciencegirl]

I doubt I would. I'd just buy more books and go to the library more often.

Same here, before I got my laptop i was reading so so much. I read entire novels in a day. I just would read non stop and constantly be awake. I get so sucked in.

 

[QSR]

Are all INTPs bookstore/library addicts? I always have a lot of books to read, but it usually either takes a couple of hours to skim them or 4-6 weeks to get through one if I'm really interested in it. Yeah I'm a pretty slow reader.

 

[cheese]

I used to be, though I still love books. I think I was partly trying to avoid productivity and I found ways elsewhere (internet, alcohol). Also I realised intellectual stimulation was available elsewhere. I'm trying to get solidly back into reading though because it really has a positive effect on my brain.
Were you ever an addict?

 

[dwags222]

for me the desire comes from the knowledge that i have a mind which has potential to help people/humankind in general, if i apply myself. intp's and intj's are often the inventors, theorists, philosophers whose ideas have a large impact on the intellectual world. everything that happens in the intellectual world eventually trickles down into common society (i don't want to sound elitist but you know what i mean) and ends up having a profound impact on the way everyday people live and think. this is seen throughout history. so the desire to do something which will provide a positive and lasting future change is what compells me not to just be a bum who really likes to read books (though god you have no idea how much i would love to be that guy sometimes).

 

[Perseus]

INTPs are sometimes called Lazy Toads, because they spend all their time thinking and not doing much. The main accusers are Teachers (ENFJ) and Property Developers (ESTP).

 

[cheese]

dwags222:
That's an interesting point but I don't agree that the intellectual elite are predominantly INTJs or INTPs. Also the MBTI measures preference, not ability, so not all of us are capable of great things anyway (not taking a jab at you, just making a point). So do you live in hope that you'll achieve something great, or do you know you can? (For instance I don't think I'm capable of impact on a large scale.) Let's say you knew beyond all doubt that you couldn't - would you still strive, or would you decide to just sit back and read?

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

INTPs are sometimes called Lazy Toads, because they spend all their time thinking and not doing much. The main accusers are Teachers (ENFJ) and Property Developers (ESTP).

ESTP may recognize my Toadiness, but they don't accuse... they mostly chuckle about it. Lazy Toad is becoming my subtitle as soon as I hit 1000 posts.

Also dwagg, you *might* be elitist, but I agree anyway.

 

[dwags222]

dwags222:
That's an interesting point but I don't agree that the intellectual elite are predominantly INTJs or INTPs. Also the MBTI measures preference, not ability, so not all of us are capable of great things anyway (not taking a jab at you, just making a point). So do you live in hope that you'll achieve something great, or do you know you can? (For instance I don't think I'm capable of impact on a large scale.) Let's say you knew beyond all doubt that you couldn't - would you still strive, or would you decide to just sit back and read?

i am not going to make the assumption that i can do something great, or that i am "special", though this has been a common trait of intellectuals throughout history (see Paul Johnson's Intellectuals). I do, however, at least hope to have some sort of impact on the intellectual community, even if it is only by making small contributions to philosophy, or being a professor in a good philosophy department where i can spread the love, so to speak :-P

I really do believe that a large percentage of the intellectual community is made up of intj's and intp's. maybe i will try to do a bit of research, but college professors are definitely overwhelmingly (at least relative to their actual percentage of humanity) made up of intp's and intj's.

 

[cheese]

That's fair enough. We could afford to spread a lot more philosophy love.

I agree that INTPs and INTJs are over-represented in these areas (don't neglect the Es though!); I suppose I was responding more to the general trend of....arrogance? among INTPs. I could say a lot more on this but it's not the time or place. Anyway I realise that wasn't your intention so

 

[dwags222]

haha yeah i know what you mean, intps can definitely have a tendency to be elitists. i actually really hate this when i see it in people though, so if i ever come off that way just smack me

 

[cheese]

Ditto.

(We need a smacking emoticon.)

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

do you lot get hit regularly?

in the last 2 days i have been struck 4 times....

a Bitch-Slap across the face
a numbing punch on the back of my leg
poked quite violently in the eye
kicked across both knees by a kid donning Steel Toe Cap Boots

 

[Melkor]

Thats sad...

I was hit by a laptop recently.


It hurt...

 

[dwags222]

a Bitch-Slap across the face
a numbing punch on the back of my leg
poked quite violently in the eye
kicked across both knees by a kid donning Steel Toe Cap Boots

that all sounds like it sucks. lets hear all the individual stories

 

[Bluey]

The truth is always a compound of two half- truths, and you never reach it, because there is always something more to say.
- Tom Stoppard

random, but a good quote for INTPs

 

[QSR]

Sometimes I think I don't do anything because I already know how to make it work. I'm like okay..that's certainly an option, but I understand that option so I'm not just gonna take it (unless I have to).

 

[Thaklaar]

The usual complacency in potential. I suspect we're all like that here.

Heh, that's been the overarching theme behind my entire life. I'd say it'd be a great band name, but it'd wind up being some weird European minimalist thing.

 

[cheese]

Hahaha!

 

[Durja]

So I'm looking for tips on overcoming our propensity for distraction and laziness. I'm like a chimp chasing the shiny object. Meaning I get very easily distracted by any number of things, usually trying to learn new information. It seems like a somewhat dysfunctional way to live in "the real world."

I've had SJ's tell me I need to push myself or that I'm just plain lazy. They tend to get very agitated by my approach to life, and I agree that I'm lacking particularly in the J aspect. I love dreaming up projects but rarely get around to doing them.

Anyway this is having a negative affect on my bank account so I'm looking for a way to be more focused. Tips and analysis welcome. Basically I want to harness my INTPness for greater good, as much as that's possible.

Hi guys, I'm the new guy..

After spending too much time in this exact situation, I recently decided to address this very problem. My girlfriend is a strong ESFJ, so, trust me, I hear a lot about what I could be doing differently.

Calendars and direct effort never seemed to work for me, so I somehow stumbled into self-help books directed at eliminating procrastination . I'm a couple weeks into trying out the techniques outlined in "The Now Habit" by Neil Fiore. For what it's worth, so far, I think I can hazard a recommendation. The "unschedule" and "3d calendar" he discusses make sense in a way, and I'm willing to continue giving them a try.

Maybe they'll work for you?

GL.

 

[QSR]

Let me know when you figure out something that works on a sustained level. I am interested in your ideas, though.

 

[DynamicMind]

My dad (ISTJ) is really irked by the fact that I don't do things within a "normal" time frame. I mean, I get things done, but they're usually done last minute or at 3 am when I think most clearly.

Does it really matter when/if something gets done if it's not really necessary? And why does it matter whether I do it at 3 pm or 3 am?

 

[Ermine]

^ I get that all the time. My mom's ISTJ and she gets really mad at me when I don't do things when they "should" be done. When I have to babysit my younger siblings some evenings, she gets really mad at me when I don't do the dishes immediately after dinner, or don't put my siblings to bed at exactly 8:30. I understand the need for both of those things to be done, but she makes the biggest deal about doing the dishes an hour after dinner or putting the kids to bed 10 or 20 minutes late.

 

[truthseeker72]

^ I get that all the time. My mom's ISTJ and she gets really mad at me when I don't do things when they "should" be done. When I have to babysit my younger siblings some evenings, she gets really mad at me when I don't do the dishes immediately after dinner, or don't put my siblings to bed at exactly 8:30. I understand the need for both of those things to be done, but she makes the biggest deal about doing the dishes an hour after dinner or putting the kids to bed 10 or 20 minutes late.

I'm afraid that this is the bane of an INTP's existence (or any P's existence for that matter). I heard similar complaints from my SJ mother as a kid, and continue to hear the same nagging from my SJ girlfriend.

 

[pathetically-lovely]

I was thinking of posting something similar. Only it's grades at this point that is being affected negatively not money. So uh, no help here, only sympathy. I can only seem to focus on something that I am not supposed to be focusing on at the time. Like, when I should do homework, instead I will get on wikipedia and follow links. I learn a lot usually, about something, but it's not what I am supposed to be doing.

Neurostimulants maybe? caffeine? For me it helps my thinking but I still seem to "chase the shiny object".

Same problem, and my grade are taking a toll. When I do my homework, say, math, I do four problems and then reward myself with two minutes of Googling. Doesn't usually work, though, as I have no self control . So I can't really offer you advice; only a "Good luck."

 

[Enlightenstorm]

Same problem, and my grade are taking a toll. When I do my homework, say, math, I do four problems and then reward myself with two minutes of Googling. Doesn't usually work, though, as I have no self control . So I can't really offer you advice; only a "Good luck."

LOL, soo true but for me its like the rest of the night googling >.<

 

[Concojones]

Hi all,

Familiar, very familiar problem.

Let me share a couple of tricks I found that work for me. Not always though (when tired, I often decide not to initiate these tricks even though I know they're an easy fix).

The classical trick I've used to apply myself to do something I don't feel like: look at the task and imagine how lightningly fast you could do it if you did the bare minimum, used this and that inventive shortcut, and then gave full throttle. At this point you realize that you're only a few minutes away from your reward (e.g. leisure, while others are still complaining about the task). I have even applied this to longer tasks such as homework. I blazed thru homework while at high-school & college, leaving me with plenty of leisure time, and a feeling of competence & ingenuity (that I could pull off the unthinkable), which served as an incentive to further improve my effectiveness.

Another thing is the 'now or never' rule. At one point I realized that I'd either (1) do something immediately (using the previous trick) or (2) end up endlessly putting it off without ever getting to it. I decided that in the case of (2), it'd have been much more comfortable to have acknowledged upfront that I would never get to do it. Hence the 'now or never' rule.