Making sense of MBTI, CFs, and type

[ddspada]

Hello.

I've known about MBTI for a little over six months now, and throughout most of this time tests have suggested I'm an INTP. I've read several dozen descriptions of all types and in general identify the best with INTP, then with ENTP. My family seems to agree with that, but they've also said INXJ descriptions fit me well enough.

Spoiler

I soon realized that typing based on the cognitive functions is more accurate and precise than typing as per the four dichotomies. CF tests suggest XNTP>INTJ>>>ISTP. I'm suspicious of CF tests, though. They might not be good for much if I a) already have a basic notion of how INTP CFs work and b) already believe myself to be an INTP.

I do identify plenty with Ti and Ne, particularly with Ne.

Spoiler

((as anecdotal confirmation, I refer back to a classmate asking me for help in theater class (mandatory in high school)). She couldn't "get into character". I talked to her for over an hour about personality, the concept of a Reason common to all humankind, how our emotions are projected and how to speak through a character. I mentioned the history of greek theater (including the origin of theater masks and of the word 'person'), the meaning of Tarot cards, the concept of Four Souls / Mitama, and the plotlines of Romeo and Juliet and a play by Alejandro Casona about suicide. Almost needless to say, I thought I was offering possibilities for her to open up to the idea of her character and improve her performance, but she just gave me the most puzzled of looks after I was done. I even paused every few minutes asking whether she was understanding or had any questions.

Many descriptions of Ne as "brainstorming out loud" take me back to that day. Friends and family have compared me to Socrates, who is most likely ENTP. Also, the way in which I most comfortably write seems Ne to me. I'm writing inside a parenthesis inside a spoiler, and I've edited this post upwards of ten fifteen twenty times before finally posting it).

I do recognize Ti in myself, but perhaps not as clearly because it's Ne that almost vehemently gets attention, and perhaps also because, assuming I do have it, it's a modus operandi so deeply ingrained that it's not easy to consciously become aware of it. I enjoy fine-tuning definitions and concepts, analyzing grammar and finding all possible causes for an event. Moreover, writing with "big words" and non-linear grammatical constructs comes naturally; I like to get my point across in an exact manner.

I suspect my touchy-feely side -- however much or little I may wish to acknowledge its existence -- falls nicely into Fe descriptions. The way in which I think I recognize, compare and apply patterns sounds like Ne-Si, but Si tertiary descriptions of INTPs don't sound as 'me' as the other three CFs. I am only 20 years old currently, though, so I don't want to rule out the possibility that Si manifestations aren't very clear yet.

I am afraid I might be mistaking Ni and Ti, perhaps being an INXJ who can give Se an appearance of Ne. IIRC, Jung said he himself was a Ti-dom, but many folks think he is INFJ. Furthermore, I grew up in a household with three SJs. The way I behave in school seems Te-ish, but it might be traceable to the influence my family had on me.

(All of) this worries me. Half a year ago I knew nothing about MBTI and was getting along more or less fine, but now that I do know, I believe that trying to improve-as-an-INTP might do me more harm than good if I'm not actually an INTP (independently, the knowledge I've gained about other people is nigh-priceless).

All that aside, or as aside as can be, I often ran into trouble when trying to answer test questions...

"Do you get your energy from the inner or outer world?" My answer is "both". I enjoy talking to (a few select) people, taking classes, going to school, debating with my professors; but I also enjoy sitting at home, reading 12 hours per day, brooding over my own musings and playing the guitar all day long. I enjoy the former somewhat more but find the latter somewhat less tiring; I don't think I can accurately give an answer one way or another, although I most often spend my free time alone. Moreover, I'm afraid I'm biasing my answers by rationalizing what I understand to be my probable introversion preference.

How about "Freely following instincts and impulses"? I'm not even sure I understand fully what the question means. If I crave a cigarette/ a cup of tea/ a meal I go and get it; but that doesn't strike me like the sort of thing they'd be asking. I don't go out with friends -- I have maybe two friends, but hundreds of acquaintances. Heck, I barely go out, period. I administer my sex drive mostly in private. I'm not too sure whether I don't understand exactly what they're asking because my mind does not function in that realm (Se); or because I have biased myself to believe so over the last half year, never having really thought about it too much before; or because a probable dominant Ti leads me to want a more precise statement.

I've come to accept that reaping the full benefit of MBTI involves a deep understanding of type, especially of one's own type, and that such an understanding can hardly come from just taking a couple of tests and agreeing with almost horoscope-like descriptions.

My questions, then -- if anybody is still reading -- are almost embarrassingly simple:

> How to tell apart Ni from Ti? I've read hundreds of hours about CFs, but I still have doubts as to which of the two (or maybe both) is present in me. I don't understand what one can do that the other can't, or if they even hold a relationship that can be expressed in such terms.

> How to make sense out of test questions I don't really relate to? If I don't understand a question at all, what can that tell me?

> If you are an INTP, how did you diffuse doubts about being of another type?

> If you are not an INTP but at one point thought you were, how did you come to discard INTP as a possibility?

English is not my first language. Sorry in advance for any inaccuracies (or, more likely, verbose descriptions of concepts I can't express more succinctly).

Any answers, advice, insight or suggestions (like trying to write less, I get that a lot ) would be much, much appreciated.

 

[Brontosaurie]

i don't think you wrote too much at all, fwiw. a pleasant read.

 

[Jennywocky]

Just brief answers right now, from my own understanding:

> How to tell apart Ni from Ti? I've read hundreds of hours about CFs, but I still have doubts as to which of the two (or maybe both) is present in me. I don't understand what one can do that the other can't, or if they even hold a relationship that can be expressed in such terms.
　
Ni folks say it's like looking at a collection of dots and seeing a picture all at once -- the mind fills it in and you "see" the answer. N is a Perceptive function after all; it doesn't really calculate, it just perceives data. But Ni is like a "global image" that resonates and is seen without all the intervening steps.
　
Ti is meanwhile a Judging function and it's like a calculating hopper. So you dump a bunch of crap in the machine at one end and at the other end (after crunching the data) it spits out an answer, and you can track the logic.
　
So both functions provide answers, but you can track the Ti calculation, whereas with Ni you just 'see' the answer and know it. If you ask an "Ni" how they got to their answer, they find it difficult and often use Te factoids to prop it up instead; if you ask a "Ti" how they got to their answer, they can list the rational thought process and you can follow it.
　
(I'm not suggesting one is more legitimate, but just how they work.)
　
> How to make sense out of test questions I don't really relate to? If I don't understand a question at all, what can that tell me?
Lots of possibilities:
- The test writer sucks.
- You're new to typology.
- You don't grasp the reasoning behind the question.
- You don't think in alignment with the philosophy behind the question.
　
　
> If you are an INTP, how did you diffuse doubts about being of another type?

I originally read all the type descriptions. The first partial hit I got was INFP, where I identified with maybe half of the description at best, but that was far better than any other match... until I read INTP, and it was like reading a bio.

For me personally, many of the types weren't even close to similar.
Since then I've read a ton by different authors from different angles, taken many many tests, and they all come up pretty identical in results and degree of results even when the tests themselves are very different.

The thing is, you are actually just YOU... you're not "this thing" or "that thing." Yes, you likely fit into one category better than another, but why does it matter if you're not completely sure? You can be generally confident without needing to be completely confident, and the reality is that it's only a tool for self-understanding anyway... your goal in taking the test is not to define yourself by a category but become aware of patterns about yourself that can then be used for growth and awareness and making your life (and others) better.

The reality is that no one really fits 100% into a category. So if you don't, don't feel bad. It's okay to be unsure, and you can still learn and grow from what knowledge you accrue.

I've looked at all type patterns and tried to learn personally from them. I've found the most to value for me when looking at patterns appearing in INTP, INFP, INFJ, and ENTP... but you can learn stuff from understanding how even dissimilar types work.

 

[ddspada]

i don't think you wrote too much at all, fwiw. a pleasant read.

P... p... pleasant? Thank you.

The reality is that no one really fits 100% into a category. So if you don't, don't feel bad. It's okay to be unsure, and you can still learn and grow from what knowledge you accrue.

I've looked at all type patterns and tried to learn personally from them.

I realize I am not INTP, but rather a person whose thought processes best resemble the INTP description (assuming INTP is actually my type, of course). Thank you.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Cognitive function tests are usually just as bad as regular ones. They have a tendency to test your ideology rather than your personality. All the time you spend taking tests is time wasted. What you need to do is read about the types, find real life examples of them in the private or public sphere to get the theory connected to reality, try to go with people who clearly are xxxx type. Don't bother with borderline cases.

Don't expect a perfect fit; moreover, don't try to account for your entire personality with MBTI because that's not possible even if you were to be all 16 types at once.

Btw, do you experience understanding something before you can express it? That's the thing with Ni for INxJs, they get thing and then have to backtrack from their insights, uncovering the chain of logic along the way. This can be very irritating, when you're sure you're right but you can't express yourself because turning your intuitions into language doesn't always come naturally.

If you look at INxJ philosophers you'll see that they tend towards a certain style. One that is much richer in metaphores, much more illustrative, dramatic; but also more ambiguous than than their Ne counterparts. With ENTPs and INTPs -for instance Bertrand Russel and Kant- you can follow their reasoning step by step. This is because their intuition is extroverted.

 

[ddspada]

Btw, do you experience understanding something before you can express it? That's the thing with Ni for INxJs, they get thing and then have to backtrack from their insights, uncovering the chain of logic along the way. This can be very irritating, when you're sure you're right but you can't express yourself because turning your intuitions into language doesn't always come naturally.

Not very often, no. It -has- happened before when I'm trying to explain new feelings to family or close friends (or even to myself), but not on any regular basis.

If you look at INxJ philosophers you'll see that they tend towards a certain style. One that is much richer in metaphores, much more illustrative, dramatic; but also more ambiguous than than their Ne counterparts. With ENTPs and INTPs -for instance Bertrand Russel and Kant- you can follow their reasoning step by step. This is because their intuition is extroverted

Thank you. I'll be sure to look into that, perhaps it's the thing I need to push me over whatever doubt I may have now.