INTP need to fit in / ability to be influenced

[Spiritknight]

I've got a friend who is currently in a relationship with an INTP. She has been telling me about certain things she has been facing and it made me wonder if a lot of INTPs feel the need to fit in and are easily swayed in their decisions.

Spoiler

My friends boyfriend relys on her a lot for everyday things. When he falls into a tough situation he always comes to her and she is a very positive person. She always helps him solve his issues, makes things happen and takes care of things when he's at a loss of how to do it. She never makes him feel like she is taking control of his life and is very considerate of his independence and need to do things his own way. However, she also realizes how he is rarely appreciative of what she does for him. To make it short, he has a friend that he has recently been hanging out with a lot. She has no problem with this guy and likes him but for some reason her INTP boyfriend feels the need to impress him. He is very rude and treats her like crap when he is with this guy. He spends all night every single night with this friend drinking and smoking and just hanging out. He is broke when it comes to seeing her but it doesn't bother him when he blows all his money drinking and smoking with this friend. He also never has time to listen to her. He calls her when he has things to say before he visits this friend and when he is done he hangs up. The only time he talks to her is when his friend is out of town. It's almost as if the second this guy calls, her boyfriend is running to go see him. My friend and I both remember her boyfriend being upset a few months ago when this friend would never contact him because he had moved out of state for college. When he was back, he was always with others. His girlfriend was the one there for him through that whole time. The friend is back now, he had to leave the out of state school for personal reasons. Now he is contacting the INTP again and he is running to him. My friends boyfriend also sabotages things he has to do that are important just so he can see this friend whenever he calls. Once again, she has no bad feelings for the friend, she doesn't blame him because her boyfriend is the one unable to set boundaries and if he disrespects her in front of his friends, of course they wont respect her.

It's not only her story but also my own observations. I believe that INTP children are always forced to fit in and feel awkward due to their inability to be an extrovert. This may cause issues for them in the future where they wonder why they don't have as many friends as others do and cause them to hold on to the ones they do have no matter the cost. It is sad that they are put under such pressures. It makes them anxious in social situations because they feel as though they are inadequate. They say something and when they don't get the reaction they have played out in their heads, it starts a cycle of thoughts on why they didn't receive it. They start to believe that they must have said something awkward or wrong and this causes a crazy train of thought to go around and around in their heads. I have seen my own boyfriend grow restless over something social that bothered him. He can't rest until he knows why certain people acted a certain way towards him and I usually have to help him calm down. That being said, I want to know what your thoughts are on INTP peoples need to fit in and be influenced. Do you think they / you are easily influenced by the friends you have? Do you feel the need to constantly prove yourself to them and be liked and worshiped by them?

 

[Jennywocky]

well, this is one of those things where there is not a blanket answer, and it will depend more on personal dispositions and upbringing. Sometimes it helps to also cross-reference enneagram types when examining INTPs; those who identify as very independent 5's are less likely to care, those who identify as 9's are more concerned with what others might think in general. Also, SP-variant INTPs are more solitary, SX and SO variant INTPs obviously care more what people think and/or need interaction in order to feel more fulfilled.

Also, the more "purely rational" the INTP (with little understanding or concern about social mores, relational ties, etc.), the more independent we might be; the more the INTP mixes Ne or Fe into the fold, it's likely that more input from others is needed or expected.

So there is no blanket answer.

If I was going to examine all the types, INTP is not a type that springs to mind as being "people dependent." In fact, INTP tends to be the "sacred cow killer" because logic does not spare emotions, relationships, or social customs. And basically if you're just describing people whose self-confidence has been undermined by their surrounding culture, well, that's a "person" thing and not a "type" thing... any type that is undermined will have the issues you describe.

---

To answer your question in regards to me, I'm a 5w4 (strong 4 wing) with SX/SP variant. So I'm usually torn. On one end, the rationality is the largest determination and I'm not happy being dependent on others, and in the end something has to "make sense" to me versus me doing it primarily to fit in. On the other hand, my self-confidence definitely was undermined when growing up; and along with the initial lack of social intuition, I realize rationally that I am impacted by how others view me and having them think well of me (so it behooves me to get their opinions and know how they are viewing me); and there is also a part of me that, while perfectly independent, wants to feel close to at least a few people and I experience loneliness otherwise, so ... I'm interested in what others think if they are important to me.

 

[Spiritknight]

well, this is one of those things where there is not a blanket answer, and it will depend more on personal dispositions and upbringing. Sometimes it helps to also cross-reference enneagram types when examining INTPs; those who identify as very independent 5's are less likely to care, those who identify as 9's are more concerned with what others might think in general. Also, SP-variant INTPs are more solitary, SX and SO variant INTPs obviously care more what people think and/or need interaction in order to feel more fulfilled.

Also, the more "purely rational" the INTP (with little understanding or concern about social mores, relational ties, etc.), the more independent we might be; the more the INTP mixes Ne or Fe into the fold, it's likely that more input from others is needed or expected.

So there is no blanket answer.

If I was going to examine all the types, INTP is not a type that springs to mind as being "people dependent." In fact, INTP tends to be the "sacred cow killer" because logic does not spare emotions, relationships, or social customs. And basically if you're just describing people whose self-confidence has been undermined by their surrounding culture, well, that's a "person" thing and not a "type" thing... any type that is undermined will have the issues you describe.

---

To answer your question in regards to me, I'm a 5w4 (strong 4 wing) with SX/SP variant. So I'm usually torn. On one end, the rationality is the largest determination and I'm not happy being dependent on others, and in the end something has to "make sense" to me versus me doing it primarily to fit in. On the other hand, my self-confidence definitely was undermined when growing up; and along with the initial lack of social intuition, I realize rationally that I am impacted by how others view me and having them think well of me (so it behooves me to get their opinions and know how they are viewing me); and there is also a part of me that, while perfectly independent, wants to feel close to at least a few people and I experience loneliness otherwise, so ... I'm interested in what others think if they are important to me.

This is really interesting Jennywocky. It's definitely very informative. I wonder what his enneagram type is. That would help in assessing the situation a lot more.

I don't know what it feels like growing up as an INTP. I am an ENFP or so I tested that way a few times but growing up, I faced a lot of things that made me question my social abilities. I was put in a private school by my parents and was bullied because of my open views and different race and culture. I had no friends at school and was okay with that. I had friends outside of school which was enough for me. I remember thinking about what was wrong with me and wishing to fit in but as I grew older, I stopped caring. I made the decision to leave the school and once I did so I realized most people actually liked me. It wasn't me, it was them. I am a very friendly person but I can't stand not being independent. I still feel like the odd one out among certain types of people and retreat into my shell. In some ways I see a lot of similarities between me and my INTP boyfriend. I did the enneagram typing once but don't remember my results. I definitely need to look into that again.

 

[Jennywocky]

I can post more later (have a meeting I need to attend), but I think INTPs can look very passive to EP types... The INTP independence is there but usually very internalized.

 

[Spiritknight]

I can post more later (have a meeting I need to attend), but I think INTPs can look very passive to EP types... The INTP independence is there but usually very internalized.

That would be great. I'd love to hear more about this.

 

[Anktark]

I can be influenced if the change makes logical sense. As for need to fit in- if I somewhat care about the group of people then I prefer fitting in in such a way that I don't stand out, but not so plain that I starting standing out. One acquaintance unknowingly complimented me that began with something like "I know there were six of us, but I can only remember five...". Heh, I don't think they ever did find out.

 

[Conradd23]

My roommate and I, who have been friends for 6 years now, are both male INTP's so I have the privilege of not only being an INTP, but also observing one. I must say, I've definitely witnessed similar types of behavior to your friends boyfriend in my roommate before.

I first have to ask, how long has her boyfriend known this guy, and how long has he known her? INTP's seem to go through phases of excitement about something/someone and we can't get enough of that thing/person for a while. Eventually though, we just reach a point where we're bored and move on. Maybe this has happened for him with your friend, or maybe this will happen with this other guy eventually. I also wonder if he realizes how negative his behavior is on your friend. Sounds like he either doesn't know he's hurting her, or he doesn't care. Has she talked to him about it at all?

As far as the "need to fit in/ability to be influenced" I think I can kinda see your point. When I was a very small child, I had a VERY hard time interacting with the other children. I didn't understand why the other children would get offended if I said certain things, or behaved in a certain way. I would get into moments where I would just start thinking about something and I would just stare in whatever direction I happened to be looking at the time. Sometimes there was nothing there, and other times there would be another person there. If there was another person there, they would get really upset and ask why I was staring at them. To me, I wasn't even aware of what was in front of me and it was just circumstantial that the person was there, but because of the negative reactions I would get I learned to control myself a little more and ensure that I was looking in a direction which had no people before I entered my internal world.

I think that in the same sense, we have learned through repetitive negative responses to adapt our behavior to one which suits the people around us. If we're hanging out with our self conscious friend, we'll be incredibly friendly and complimentary people (for a while until it gets too tiring). If we're hanging out with our punk rock friend who wants to start an anarchial society, we'll be much more aggressive people. The way we behave seems to be dictated by the way in which we think that the people around us want us to behave.

These are just my past my bed-time thoughts, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, and I hope everything works out for your friend.

 

[Spiritknight]

Conrad, first off, thank you for the response. This is actually exactly what I was looking for.

I myself am in a relationship with an INTP so I have been able to observe a lot of such behaviors as well as I have said before. It's nice that you're able to observe another INTP in real life.

My friends boyfriend has known this guy for about 3-4 years. I believe when I asked this question, that was his excitement, now as far as she has told me he has another. I told her that there is no way she can stop this from happening, it will happen. As far as I know, he is aware of the fact that he is hurting her. It depends on what kind of mood he is in as to whether he will try to make things better or not. She tries to talk to him about it as much as she can but he has a habit of hanging up on her and ignoring her for the rest of the day. I believe this guy has a few things he needs to improve and mature on.

Honestly speaking, what I said above was not only based on what I observed in INTPs, but also something I can relate to. I don't really know what my MBTI type is. To be very honest, I am confused about it. I tested as ENFP but the more I got to know them, the more I realized that I don't necessarily fit in. I can relate to everything you just said. I remember always being in trouble at school for daydreaming. I would get all into my own head and think about things. I was also always the odd kid. I thought it was mainly because I went to a private school where everyone was different from me, but now that I think about it, I had a cousin a year younger than me and she would always make fun of me for not being like them, for always thinking about things and not always wanting to hang out. I am a very friendly outgoing person but when I am around certain people I get awkward and shy.

I don't know what type I truly am because I feel as though I have been molded to be someone I am not over the years. Sorry, I have turned this discussion from a generalized one to a personal one, I just realized how much some things you stated hit home for me.

Thank you for the well wishes, I really like what you had to say. It was enlightening.

Note: Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I just saw this as I was about to go to bed and had to respond.

 

[Emerson]

We are all human. Though I used to be INTP, I am now more or less characterized as an ENTP; however, overall I am simply human-- there's a point to this statement.

Perhaps this is not exactly the personality-causation answer you're looking for, but I can't help but read this story and dismiss the fact that this person is an INTP. Why?

I am going to offer a hopefully brief commentary regarding this relationship that glosses over personality and its relation to relationships, which may or may not provide you with useful information. Now this of course boils down to my personal opinion; I personally believe that while his personality indicates he is INTP and he exhibits INTP traits perhaps in real life, he is simply emotionally abusive towards this girlfriend of his.

Not all INTP's act in this way. What I am suggesting is that him being an INTP and his decision to act irrationally and wrongfully towards his girlfriend are not necessarily related-- this is, from what I personally have observed in both myself and others regarding interpersonal relations, an isolated incident and should by no means serve as a blanket example of what signifies how an INTP acts in relationships.

This is simply an abusive human being who is not considerate of another human being. All I can say is that if he is inconsiderate of his girlfriend's feelings and takes her for granted, which you may or may not be implying through your story, then I would have to reason that their relationship is unhealthy and that she needs to move on.

Pardon me if I missed anything of importance.

In essence, I believe that this isolated incident regarding an INTP is incidental and that this person is simply an emotionally abusive human being. Perhaps he is not aggressively emotionally or physically abusive (which I don't know), but by denying his girlfriend basic rights in a human relationship, it simply shows that he is incapable, at this point, of cultivating a meaningful relationship, and that has very little to do with him being INTP. What one must remember is that one is ultimately responsible for his/her actions, thoughts, and feelings. It is simply not rational to justify a situation by using a personality type as an indicator-- hell, if that were the case then we might as well just be categorized into society much like what was depicted in the movie Divergent. After all, if a personality type served as any indicator of how people would behave in future scenarios, then it would only be natural to logically corral people into certain destinies in which they produce the best results, correct? Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, the fact of being an INTP, or being any other personality type, has no bearing on how we individually conduct ourselves. Personality tests serve as a yardstick that help us figure out more precisely who we are, but by no means do they serve as the be-all end-all of who we are. We are human beings with the ability and capacity to grow into whoever we choose to become. Because in the end, it is choice, not personality, that determines who we are and how we treat others.