Ever OSL Final: Flash vs. Movie

[FusionKnight]

Anybody else watch the Ever OSL final between Flash and Movie last night? Everybody knew Movie was going to get handled, but they were amazing games to watch none-the-less. Unfortunately, the match started at 2am CST, leaving me very tired this morning...

The match-up this week between Flash and Jaedong should be, from all accounts, epic.

Okay, time to put my nerd away...

 

[Sapphire Harp]

Well, dear Fusion, I didn't watch any of them - but I'd be curious enough to do so... If I could find them online, preferably in a format which wasn't a hyped up game show which hardly seems to show the gameplay...

Any idea where I might have some luck? My initial searches aren't getting anywhere.
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[fullerene]

*gapes* ....starcraft fan? And why have we not played together?

I haven't seen them... but I am a fan of watching good SC games like that every once in a while. I don't actually know when the live ones are, though, so I usually only find them much later.

I didn't see this game, but I'll look it up tomorrow, when my roommate isn't asleep. When is the next match? And where can I see it?

 

[FusionKnight]

A good place to go for the schedule and live feeds is the Team Liquid site (http://www.teamliquid.net/). I'm not sure if the OSL final has been widely posted yet; I also am having trouble finding it. Although if you do a youtube search for "kara osl final" you'll find the pre-game festivities.

 

[FusionKnight]

Actually, if you go to this page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=109811, look near the bottom under where it says "how to watch" and expand the "download vods" section. It looks like links to the games are there.

 

[fullerene]

niice, thanks a lot .

 

[Sapphire Harp]

I just got through round 1 of Flash Vs. Movie on Heartbreak ridge.

Pretty good game, but the entire time I was wondering where the reaver drops were... And there was a moment in the beginning when Movie had three Dragoons blasting away at a bunker for like two minutes while it was being repaired by SCVs... It didn't have any marines in it, why didn't he bypass it? Or go for those SCVs directly? I can't imagine the minerals bleed was that effective.

Although, on the other side - Flash kept laying tons of mines - but never seemed to be doing anything about observers. That was odd. I kept expecting to see a sci vessel and three wraith squad to hunt observers... never showed up, though.

Just my reactions, though... I don't play Starcraft hardly at all anymore, and when I was doing so, I found playing the normal games was really stressful. I was just trying too hard to perform well... So, I'm out of my league critiquing for sure.

Although, it would be kind of fun to have a tournament amongst the forum here, assuming there are more than three players?
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[FusionKnight]

Okay crypt, I feel like an idiot. When did your name change???

 

[fullerene]

lol, don't worry. 4ish days ago? 5 maybe?

That explains why there wasn't much of a reaction when I asked "how have we not played yet!?"

 

[FusionKnight]

Lol. Yeah, I was like "well, I don't know you, do I?".

Anyway, I played a bunch when the games first came out way back in the late 90's. However, since I'm not a very competitive person by nature I never really got into the ladder or anything. I just stuck with single-player, LAN parties with friends, and "use map settings" games.

However, now that I've discovered progaming, it's come back to life for me. I don't know why, but there is something amazingly fun about watching pros play Starcraft. It's like chess... in space.

I do like the game though, so I have no objections to playing!

 

[fullerene]

I saw one of the movies... they were so long! The only games I've ever seen (people much better than me or any of my friends, that is) end in ~10-12 minutes at most. I agree with sapphire: where were the reavers? And when the terran guy (for a brief bit) had a ridiculous army when compared to the protoss one, why didn't he attack? When he had two expansions and the protoss guy only had one, for a few minutes he had a *much* stronger army... but he forwent attacking, and the protoss player instead managed to take 4 bases in that time.

It was a really passive game, until everything exploded in the mid-game... I just didn't get it.


I did the same as you, just single player and LAN. For some reason, no one can ever join my games on BNet. Computer or network or something don't like it. We had a lot of fun (at college) doing one use map settings one, though, where you had unlimited minerals... but they were capped at 50. So you would build one thing, but then have to wait a second or two until it recharged to use more. As your kill-count rose, that cap rose with it, and you could upgrade all your guys up until level 50, rather than 3. You had to harvest your own vespiene, though. To counter, it was everyone against one computer, and the computer was absolutely insane. We played with 4-5 people, one of whom is borderlining-professional himself, and we still only beat the thing 2-3 times. It remains my favorite variant, though.


There are some people around here who play, but I don't think it's as many as you'd expect. Latro is really into it, though... and he's quite good (but not ridiculous or anything) too.

 

[FusionKnight]

I think a lot of what goes on in the pro SC matches is feint and counterfeint. Because their micro skill is so amazingly good, nobody bothers to rush (unless it's like the pylon/double gateway rush Bisu destroyed Pokju with: YouTube- Bisu's Ultimate Proxy - Pimpest Play! Bisu v Pokju, 6/25/07).

Generally the games go something like this: Early game is devoted to building economy, trying to outpace the other player. Small skirmishes happen at this stage, dominated by micro skills. Mid-game is where the macro skills come into play, where players turn from economic mode to military mode, and develop a large army. Late game is also dominated by micro, but usually at this point it's way too late to matter.

Another thing I've noticed is that the players are extremely aware of all the inner-workings of the SC engine. For example, units do different types of damage, hurting shields, organics, and mechanicals in different ways. The 1-on-1 strengths of all of these units are well understood, so even a large army of certain units might be useless against a smaller force of appropriately matched units.

In that first Flash vs Movie game, Movie was also pretty nervous and screwed up pretty bad when he initiated his "recall" attacks, losing his entire army by attacking the same spot 3 times in a row. So the human element definitely still exists too.

 

[ktp]

Hey FushionKnight, I am a avid fan of Korean Starcraft and a member on TL as well. I watched the games lives and they were OK. Just watching Flash play is a amazing sight to see, he is near perfect when it comes to macro and economy management. Its astonishing to see someone who actually improves his game as the game drags on. I thought it was brilliant that he walled off the ridges with 4-6 depots, making an attack on his army impossible. All he had to do that game was defend against recalls while taking his side of the map, and he did exactly that. Movie is an impressive new comer but he is no match for Flash. Jaedong is the only play capable of taking down Flash, and even that is a coin flip. Flash has more momentum doing for him right now. I expect a 3-2 win for Flash.

 

[ktp]

I just got through round 1 of Flash Vs. Movie on Heartbreak ridge.

Pretty good game, but the entire time I was wondering where the reaver drops were... And there was a moment in the beginning when Movie had three Dragoons blasting away at a bunker for like two minutes while it was being repaired by SCVs... It didn't have any marines in it, why didn't he bypass it? Or go for those SCVs directly? I can't imagine the minerals bleed was that effective.

Although, on the other side - Flash kept laying tons of mines - but never seemed to be doing anything about observers. That was odd. I kept expecting to see a sci vessel and three wraith squad to hunt observers... never showed up, though.
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Movie tried build a robotics bay in the area above Flash's so his Reaver drop would come incredible fast, but Flash scouted it so Movie abandoned that plan.

About the bunker, there were marines in it. They weren't firing because the dragoons were out of their firing range. Movie's dragoons had range upgraded so they were able to fire at the bunker. It goes like this, a marine in a bunker will have its range increased, it can fire at a dragoon. But when dragoons get their own range upgrade, they can fire at a bunker with marines no problem. But when marines get their range upgrade from the academy, it can fire at a dragoon while hiding in a bunker. As far as why Movie didn't do a run-by with dragoons, it is because Flash will easily block its path with SCVs. Those 3 goons would die fast to bunker and scv focus fire.

Also, Wraiths are rarely used by Terrans when facing Protoss. Observers are not a problem if a Terran player positions turrets correctly to cover his base. Its standard to only have 1 starport when facing Protoss. That starport is more effective if it produces dropships/sci vessals instead of wraiths.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

By the by - I've reinstalled my game, so if you guys are ever looking for another player, let me know?

Beyond that, I was thinking about the how I used to play, or rather, which maps I used to play a lot. I never wanted to spend time getting to be amazing at the micro control... The frantic ness of it just drives me nuts, so I often would play the maps where you made the strategic decisions, but the computer did most of the fighting for you.

Specifically, I'm talking about Desert Castles, Desert Strike... that sort of thing. Or the single super units maps where you can really just focus on 1-12 units and not have to worry about a base or anything like that. If I want to enjoy myself, that's what I'd play.

Of course, we've been talking about pro games, so that's as much performance as you can do under as much pressure as can be made... Totally different situation.
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