Drugs for emotions and mind

[Grayman]

I have not needed or taken depression, ADD, or ADHD drugs but I have seen people I grew up with be changed by them.

I am aware that the drugs make it easier to deal with certain emotions and to stay focused on tasks etc...

My question is if, by making these easier, does the individual delay their learning to deal with the emotions and focus on the issues within themselves? Do the drugs superficially delay the individuals need to address their issues, and elevating the issue in the future?

I also think as a growing individual the brain would wire and grow differently to fit and adapt to the new chemical framework the drugs are creating. Would this not make the issue more elevated when they go off the drugs?

I would suspect that the drugs should only be portioned in a way that it makes life "just" manageable for the individual but not remove the symptoms entirely or even mostly, so that the individual can function now but will still have to work at finding ways in themselves to deal with the problems.

Can anyone provide any experience in this? Opinions are welcome too.

 

[Pyropyro]

I support using these drugs for curing diseases/ maintaining a healthy mind provided that a sufficient amount of tests have been conducted to ensure that the use of the drugs is the only way to help the patients.

However, I'm against using it for performance enhancement, as if it's like some sort of mental steroids. Thing is, these drugs may have psychotic side-effects and the public should at least have an idea on the risk they are taking whenever they take the meds.

I also agree that more research should be conducted for drug withdrawal especially for children. So far, medical literature isn't clear about the long-term effects of the drugs.

 

[Minuend]

For the use of meds in general, I do think they can help some step over the initial threshold to recovery.

For depression, I would think meds can in some cases bring the patient up a slight level to where they are actually able to start processing what is causing it.

Personally, if I experience a certain mindtstate for an extensive period, it's easier for me to summon that mindstate and maintain it.

I took meds for depression and anxiety for 2-3 years. I had generalized anxiety, which meant I was pretty much in a constant state of tenseness. I would experience great discomfort (in contrast to being at home which was experienced as merely discomfort) whenever I was going somewhere, doing something. Even things I did on a regular basis, like driving to the store to buy food.

Well, after being on those meds for some months, this discomfort disappeared, or became managable. My body still tends to feel tense even as I sit at home writing this, but there is no anxiety. I do suspect removing the anxiety is revealing another issue that was masked, though.

For me, it's easier to manage the few occasions that are naturally nervousing (to most people, like job interviews or whatever) when I'm not anxiety (they are totally dictionary verbs) all the time. Constant anxiety really drains all energy from you with nothing left to face the world when shit gets real.

I think it had a slight positive effect on my depression. But I can't say for sure as a decreased anxiety would surely have that effect regardless. It does seem my neutral emotional state is slightly more vivid than I can ever remember it being. I have episodes where my neutral state have a slight pleasant feeling to it. Like being alive itself makes me feel... good.

Though it's difficult to tell when you've been on and off depression for so long (were I really ever off depression?). You tend to forget how you felt when you were at your best. In addition, I personally have a significant breach between my feelings and thought (not that I entirely believe in those being split two ways, or that those are the only two factors you can divide it in, but for simplicity sake). Well, to me that makes everything very messy and confusing. I have a part of me that tend to ignore or loathe what it considers irrational emotional behaviour.

However, I think the meds was the final trigger to something like a gastroparesis (undiagnosed). Which I have been trying to "fix" the last 6 months and are only now seeing some slight improvments of. But I was noticing worsening in digestion for like 4- 5 years before that, so it was not just the meds.

It's difficult to tell whether meds were the right decision. I do suspect there was something physiological involved in my anxiety, that it wasn't all thoughts and worries. The digestion going avry might also have been a symptom of something else underneath as it ties very heavily to the neurological. But, I doubt that our knowledge of the body is sufficient to have been able to catch whatever the root cause was/ is (based on the symptoms I had at least). Considering removing the anxiety or not was my only two options, it might have been worth it afterall. Even though when my digestion stops, I start becomming more depressive and negative. It's a fairly radical change (which hasn't been that obvious to me until recently) between being hopeful and positive when I'm feeling better, to stoop into negativity and hopelessness when the digestion stops.

 

[Variform]

I have not needed or taken depression, ADD, or ADHD drugs but I have seen people I grew up with be changed by them.

I am aware that the drugs make it easier to deal with certain emotions and to stay focused on tasks etc...

But that is not the case, or at least, it is more subtle than that.

E.g. antidepressants will make you feel better because it acts on your serotonin system, that is, you get more of it in your brain. Your mood improves. It doesn't make you handle your emotions better. That is up to the user themselves.
But it will break a cycle between feeling bad, causing you to make less serotonin, causing you to feel worse etc.

AD(H)D medication in itself will not make you able to deal with emotions better either, it just affects neurotransmitters here too.

You can feel bad because you are constantly blocked to achieve something. Depression is co-morbid with AD(H)D. So these emotions are helped only indirectly because the source issue is dealt with by the medication.

... , does the individual delay their learning to deal with the emotions and focus on the issues within themselves? Do the drugs superficially delay the individuals need to address their issues, and elevating the issue in the future?

It helps the vicious cycle when you talk antidepressants and I would say antipsychotics as well. So it is not about a delay as much as it is getting a new basis from which to explore or deal with underlying issues that caused the depression or psychosis. You cannot, after all, work on issues when your brain is a mess.
And so it does not elevate. You cannot treat anyone, e.g. with psychotherapy of cognitive therapy if they are still too messed up.

I also think as a growing individual the brain would wire and grow differently to fit and adapt to the new chemical framework the drugs are creating. Would this not make the issue more elevated when they go off the drugs?

I don't understand the "I also...". I didn't read an opinion before that. But you explain it thereafter, that you think that these drugs affect the brain chemistry, therefore preventing a client to deal with the underlying problems - and that therefore, perhaps, drugs are bad.

If you mean by a "growing individual" a young person at an age where they still have brain development, then some drugs might do that, others will not. E.g. AD(H)D medication does not seem to affect the brain long term, but I have no knowledge about all these drugs. But methylfenidate shows no risks for as far as I can rely on the various vids I have seen, of lectures on YT.

I would suspect that the drugs should only be portioned in a way that it makes life "just" manageable for the individual but not remove the symptoms entirely or even mostly, so that the individual can function now but will still have to work at finding ways in themselves to deal with the problems.

Can anyone provide any experience in this? Opinions are welcome too.

Of course, medicine is prescribed not to suppress any emotional issues underlying a depression or any other condition, such as anxiety for instance.

It is always a serious business to get the rx right, not too much, not too little. That can be difficult. Just manageable seems a little skint. It sounds like 'barely scraping by'. That won't help. A client needs to get a reasonable to good level of functioning and then deal with issues.

 

[Grayman]

Thanks Minuend.

I can relate to axiety. The source of my axiety was not a chemical imbalance but chemicals did elevate the existing feeling.

Axiety was caused by me not resolving things. My focus was damaged by the anxiety making it harder to resolve the problems. This made me more anxious and made it even harder etc... Eventually I was having panic attacks.

I resolved the issue by recognizing the cycle and finding an exit from the loop by stopping myself from adding more problems and focusing on the large ones. I also think giving up caffeine for that period was what made the axiety reduce enough for me to focus on those large issues.

For me the chemical imbalance from caffeine was self induced. For someone who's body is the cause of the imbalance, I can see why they need a counter through medication.

 

[Grayman]

It is always a serious business to get the rx right, not too much, not too little. That can be difficult. Just manageable seems a little skint. It sounds like 'barely scraping by'. That won't help. A client needs to get a reasonable to good level of functioning and then deal with issues.

I like that phrasing more. Am dealing some bias on the issue. I am trying to resolve it and discover something that fits more with reality.

Many in people, in my life, close friends and family, suffer from depression. I never saw anything resolving thier issues. Theynever found happiness or satisfaction. The pills never worked and I did not understand why they were so offset from reality. They literally looked for things to make their life seem dark and horrible. The always cast blame on others and circumstance never taking responsibility for their own emotions. How can circumstance be blamed as if it intended to harm them?

It has always been hard to ignore the conclusion that they do this simply because they are too selfishly absorbed thinking they are entitled to something instead of accepting whatthey have and and finding joy in working toward a greater purpose than satisfying thier own desires.

Sometimes I have the thought that they have been set on this path because attention was given and issues resolved when the individual expressed distress but otherwise they were ignored. They essentially learn that distress causes things to get resolved.

There are other reasons im sure. I need more understanding of them beyond an outside perspective.

Anyways, my wife, before we were married, was almost on pills because of her parents. For some reason they asked my opinion. I disagreed with the idea and for some reason they accepted that. I found that my wifes issues where largely an inability to accept or pursue perspective. Seeing things differntly is the easiest way control your emotions. Controlling the output of your emotions is destructive and almost impossible as it eventually surfaces. I simply was that positive perspective and a means to keep her grounded to some of reality. She is not as grounded as I am but it is largely to do with her inherently emotional nature and less to do with depression. I realized more recently that her mother's depressional outlook was the cause of my wifes issues from the start.


A bit off topic.... but I feel like I need an outside perspective to help me find something I am missing.

 

[Variform]

I like that phrasing more. Am dealing some bias on the issue. I am trying to resolve it and discover something that fits more with reality.

Many in people, in my life, close friends and family, suffer from depression. I never saw anything resolving thier issues. Theynever found happiness or satisfaction. The pills never worked and I did not understand why they were so offset from reality. They literally looked for things to make their life seem dark and horrible. The always cast blame on others and circumstance never taking responsibility for their own emotions. How can circumstance be blamed as if it intended to harm them?

I am sorry to hear about these people being depressed.

First I think we all are thinking alike that we believe that all issues can be resolved. In practice, as you show, that doesn't seem to be the case. Actually, my gf is rather in a bad way and I doubt she will ever recover. And that destroyed my relationship of 14 years.

But many issues can be resolved. But when I look at myself, although I work on these problems (getting new dx), I am afraid too to deal with it.

People think it is easy to take responsibility for these issues. But it is not. There are reservoirs of anxiety stacked behind that simple notion of taking responsibility and fixing it.

Some people can muster up the motivation and courage. Some don't. I may be one of them.

Aside from that, loads of doctors are stupid. You know, being a doctor doesn't make you smart or wise. It just means you passed many tests measuring knowledge. A lot os psychiatrist screw around with meds. When I hear some people talk about what all they swallow, it is insanity. Drug after drug to combat the sideefects of another, as if this stack of interacting mutually affecting effects and sideefects can be managed.

And then there is the whole background story on whther or not we are merely our brain chemistry. Your family might have responded better to different forms of treatment than were applied.

It is hard to say. We are not merely bio-robots and sometimes a good talk with a great therapist will break open a path where medication may start to work, e.g.

The trend these days however is to medicate. The art of good psychotherapy is losing methinks.

It has always been hard to ignore the conclusion that they do this simply because they are too selfishly absorbed thinking they are entitled to something instead of accepting whatthey have and and finding joy in working toward a greater purpose than satisfying thier own desires.

Well, depression is not a desire unless it is an excuse not to take responsibility to get well, which comes out of a deeper anxiety to deal with the realities of life. You see, when you are no longer depressed, at some point you are going to have to work.
So the issue here is 'is he lazy or is he still mentally ill?' I think the latter. You can fight depression, control it, get well, but if the depression was the result of fears about how to be in the world, if society scares you, if work scares you, if interacting with people is scary, then depression may be solved, - but not totally overcome as the source is still there - than the problems someone faces is based on those issues rather than the depression.

I do not think that entitlement is a major factor.

Sometimes I have the thought that they have been set on this path because attention was given and issues resolved when the individual expressed distress but otherwise they were ignored. They essentially learn that distress causes things to get resolved.

Interesting insight. It sounds reasonable.

There are other reasons im sure. I need more understanding of them beyond an outside perspective.

Anyways, my wife, before we were married, was almost on pills because of her parents. For some reason they asked my opinion. I disagreed with the idea and for some reason they accepted that. I found that my wifes issues where largely an inability to accept or pursue perspective. Seeing things differntly is the easiest way control your emotions. Controlling the output of your emotions is destructive and almost impossible as it eventually surfaces. I simply was that positive perspective and a means to keep her grounded to some of reality. She is not as grounded as I am but it is largely to do with her inherently emotional nature and less to do with depression. I realized more recently that her mother's depressional outlook was the cause of my wifes issues from the start.


A bit off topic.... but I feel like I need an outside perspective to help me find something I am missing.

Your wife used medication because of emotional issues coming out of her family situation as a child. There si no meds for parents I am afraid. I would have taken pills for parents long ago :-)

Not sure I get your assessment. Pursue or accept perspective? You mean she is narrow in her views?

Can a change in view control emotions?

 

[Grayman]

Well, depression is not a desire unless it is an excuse not to take responsibility to get well, which comes out of a deeper anxiety to deal with the realities of life. You see, when you are no longer depressed, at some point you are going to have to work.
So the issue here is 'is he lazy or is he still mentally ill?' I think the latter. You can fight depression, control it, get well, but if the depression was the result of fears about how to be in the world, if society scares you, if work scares you, if interacting with people is scary, then depression may be solved, - but not totally overcome as the source is still there - than the problems someone faces is based on those issues rather than the depression.

That wasn't what I meant. What I was thinking about was how people who are constantly disappointed by not attaining their desires become depressed. They are so focused on this they cannot move on and see what is going on around them and beyond them. I am more familiar with this in my family. They also are stuck in the past instead looking for new territory.

Of course this is not the case all the time. I did go through a period myself but it was not encased with negative feelings. I was deprived of human interaction. I became void of emotion. I never was going to kill myself but things were rather dull and emotionless. This didn't really have anything to do with desire.

 

[Variform]

I guess in that case depression is its own source. Your family members didn't reach goals, they got distraught by it. And that in turn disabled them to see opportunities even if they presented themselves.

Setting realistic goals seems the solution. That is what I get from all the treatments that exist for depression.

You think society pushes people to depression because it shows you that one should desire so much?

 

[Grayman]

I guess in that case depression is its own source. Your family members didn't reach goals, they got distraught by it. And that in turn disabled them to see opportunities even if they presented themselves.

Setting realistic goals seems the solution. That is what I get from all the treatments that exist for depression.

You think society pushes people to depression because it shows you that one should desire so much?

I think so. Is it worth never reaching for an ideal situation? I had an argument with my brother in law about how dangerous it is to live by one desire. He wasn't a depressed person but instead full of hope. He seemed to indicate that he can derive much more happiness from this even though he is committing to risk. I told him that he just needs to be prepared for failure as well as success. He must prepare to find related dreams that are fully realizable.

 

[Variform]

Setting goals motivates people. (I had management as part of my edu.) Setting reachable goals that is. I understand such things because I learne dthem in school. For myself, or to apply it to myself I find hard.

If you set realistic goals the chance of failure is small, so you can then build on these dreams step by step reaching larger over-arching goals.