Anti-Manipulation Defense

[Zionoxis]

As of recently, I have become rather interested in the topic of manipulation and psychology (no actual intention to use it). I enjoy learning of things that are...controversial and give the user a sense of power. Anyhow, after reading quite a few books on NLP (1970's version, not the new 'imagine yourself feeling better' crap), I have gone through body language, tone, facial movement, and I believe I have developed a very ungodly apathy toward people. I mean, more than an INTP should. Essentially, every time I see a sad video of someone going against bullies, I want to punch the makers for creating such a whiny country. Every time I see 'police brutality', I blame the idiots protesting who most likely caused the entire ordeal.

Basically, I have created this instant reaction inside of me to side with whoever is being blamed because my mind rejects emotional appeal. Would you consider this a bad thing as it does take the grounds of skepticism, and should I voice my opinion to others? I believe the reaction from others would be that I am an uncaring douche, but I am hoping I could explain my reasoning. Any ideas?

 

[Bird]

I think it is a bad thing because you're not thinking
things through and are just feeling.

 

[Zionoxis]

I think it is a bad thing because you're not thinking
things through and are just feeling.

In a majority of those situations, it is not necessarily feeling. There simply is not enough information to think it over. There are far too many variables to choose a side. While most choose the side of the supposed 'victim', I choose to other as more likely than not, as a manipulation tactic forced towards emotion, the actual victim may be the one on trial.

Allow me to clarify that I am simply adding more information as I may not have given enough to begin with. If you still believe I am feeling, explain why.

 

[Bird]

Okay... you say there's not enough information to think.
So how is that not going with your feelings?

 

[Zionoxis]

Okay... you say there's not enough information to think.
So how is that not going with your feelings?

Hmmm.... it is making a generalization, but I would not say it is completely void of thought. I do see where I misused my words, however. So logically, would the only true conclusion be not to draw one at all? I hate to do that as I sit on the fence with just about...everything. Forgive my rambling, clarity of speech was never given to me as an INTP.

 

[EditorOne]

"Forgive my rambling, clarity of speech was never given to me as an INTP."

Use more words. We'll forgive you.

You are perhaps reacting to and rejecting the basis of the presentation of an issue rather than the issue itself. Whenever anyone invites me to be outraged or saddened at some turn of events, my innate wariness at anything packaged in emotion comes out, like flicking a switch and the lights come on. However, a bit of reflection usually sorts things out. I mean, OK, so a bunch of finger-wiggling protesters with vacuous spokespeople and vague stares are camped out in Manhattan. Forget the issue, and forget the memories all those baton-poking cops brought back from the 1960s: What is it they are doing that warrants an over-reaction from police? I liked the poster that was whipped together shortly after the over-reaction began: "If we enforced banking laws like we enforce park regulations, we wouldn't be in this mess" or something to that effect. However I'm not going to get outraged or weepy, they volunteered to be there and the experience is very much zenlike for them in that there is sometimes no way to understand what's happening if you aren't on the sharp edge of things. So I'm not angry or outraged with any of it, including the police, I just say "isn't that interesting?" and go about my INTP business.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

As of recently, I have become rather interested in the topic of manipulation and psychology (no actual intention to use it).

INTP much?

 

[Zionoxis]

INTP much?

Well, I WANT to play with it, but not really go around causing pain in my wake. I felt the need to qualify as some hear "I want to learn about [insert controversial topic here]" and refuse to talk to you further.

As for clarity, I could have sworn that was a trait given to all INTP's. I was somehow left out of that as my babbling leaves most having no idea what I am saying and occasionally, I have no idea what point I am trying to get across.

 

[Da Blob]

Manipulation, that is the function and utility of words. words are stimuli used to evoke/provoke a response...

Here's an Oldie But Goodie for those who have not read Berne

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_People_Play_(book)

Do not believe that one is above manipulation, that can be a terrible mistake.

Some of the very best psychologists of the previous decades have been attracted to the power the Dark Side offered them. There are ways to completely bypass human consciousness and implant messages/commands in the subconsciousnesses. There really is such a thing as 'psychological warfare". Fortunately, in America, we are most often commanded merely to buy certain products via marketing and advertising...

Personally, instead of marketing, I try to use my skills to 'inspire' by planting seeds, not commands, in the subconscious. That way when a seed sprouts and comes to the surface and into the light of consciousness, One can legitimately(?) claim the thought/idea as One's own...

 

[Zionoxis]

Manipulation, that is the function and utility of words. words are stimuli used to evoke/provoke a response...

Here's an Oldie But Goodie for those who have not read Berne

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_People_Play_(book)

Do not believe that one is above manipulation, that can be a terrible mistake.

Some of the very best psychologists of the previous decades have been attracted to the power the Dark Side offered them. There are ways to completely bypass human consciousness and implant messages/commands in the subconsciousnesses. There really is such a thing as 'psychological warfare". Fortunately, in America, we are most often commanded merely to buy certain products via marketing and advertising...

Personally, instead of marketing, I try to use my skills to 'inspire' by planting seeds, not commands, in the subconscious. That way when a seed sprouts and comes to the surface and into the light of consciousness, One can legitimately(?) claim the thought/idea as One's own...

Feel free to point me to more books on this subject. I have gotten this a little sidetracked, but this certainly peaks my interest.

 

[Da Blob]

Once I read all of Berne's work I lost interest in the topic. His concept of 'conversation as transaction' is fundamental and the foundation of social interaction IMO. Transactional Analysis once even became a cult at one point...

However, virtually all psychology can be seen as an effort to manipulate...

I would suggest a grounding in Nonverbal Communication can be enlightening, especially for INTPians. 65-95% of all information that is shared between humans is nonverbal information...

There are some good textbooks on the topic, but I rely on the work of Paul Ekman for the most part...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ekman

 

[Felan]

Manipulation is an inherent part of humanity. Business uses manipulation, religion uses manipulation, friends use manipulation, lovers use manipulation, and so on and so on. Manipulation is merely a tool and everyone uses it, even though most won't or are incapable of acknowledging it.

When Da Blob says he wants to inspire a seed, that is manipulation. Psychology understands and is more honest about what manipulation is and yes it does it use it as a tool. History and current events are overflowing with the examples of the evil-side of manipulation that religion practices.

I think manipulation is a powerful tool and with any powerful tool it takes care, study, and practice to wield it safely. Unfortunately because of the negativity associated with "manipulation" it is essentially viewed as taboo or evil. Which is essentially like encouraging massive mobs of retards to run around blindfolded and wielding chainsaws.

Learning about manipulation in all its forms is an important skill to learn in this age of over-information. It is an important skill to learn in the job world whether you are a boss or a subordinate, as it is about the only tool available for bringing about the best outcomes for everyone. Sometimes it will backfire but I would rather being an active participant in trying to make things right than a passive recipient of whatever whim someone decides on.

As to opening thread that revulsion to emotional pleas can be a useful response. Personally I let myself flow with the emotions of things that I am not invested in, it is like an amusement ride and seems to have helped blow off emotional steam in a helpful way that would have otherwise ate away at me. When I am invested (but not emotionally so) in something though trying an emotional appeal to me is usually the worst approach.

As an example I used to work in what was essentially a pawn shop. I was really good at buying stuff because I wouldn't get emotional about it and if people would give me the sob story my natural response was to give less of a deal than if they hadn't done that. This response prevented me from making the unwise purchases that a lot of coworkers who would get sucked in made.

As a counterexample I've dated and been close friends with a lot of very emotional girls (idealists). I understand this about them about while I don't get sucked into the emotional maelstrom I also don't judge them poorly for it. I can be port of safe calling for that storm when it hits until the storm works itself out. It's important to not be a tool for them but rationals in general can profound friend/lover to idealists because of this tendancy.

I think the best thing to do is be flexible and open about emotional responses and encourage appropriate responses to the appropriate situations. Also realize you won't be a 100% consistent in how you deal with it and you will mess up, sometimes explaining and saying sorry it was too much to process or it hit a nerve will fix most mishaps. And yes using those phrases is manipulation but I'd rather manipulate a friend I've hurt into forgiveness than lose them forever. I'm selfish that way.