ADHD Inattentive (ADD) Woes

[nobutlogic]

I'm here again to get my thoughts out on this. Externalization! Maybe a couple of you can relate.

Problem: Inattentive ADHD (ADD) is a dirty whore. I'm not here to talk about the disorder for the disorder's sake, (or its existence), but it's symptomatically the closest label for my issues (scientologists and conspiracy theorists, fight the good fight elsewhere). I'll try not to get into too lengthy a description here, but I want to cover the woes that I'm blanketing under Inattentive ADHD:

Woes/Problems:

• While reading, especially when taking in new concepts, it's like pulling nails to get myself to pay attention. I've tried all the remedies: Taking brief notes, frequent breaks, visualization, etc. They help, but one step above mediocre is still mediocre. It's just, I can learn it, but I'll get headaches just organizing these simple concepts, and it's miserable. The simplest things. Even if I'm wildly interested in the concepts, my base level of stimulation isn't enough to jog my neuronal-carriage into a decent clip to where I can store and retrieve data fast enough to generate an internal sense of progress in order to trigger the reward response.

• Recalling relevant facts/details just doesn't happen when it should. When I'm in a stimulated state, it's like a wonderful trip through relevant idea land. My normal conscience is totally unaware of the past, or the relevant experiences to my current experience, and so I miss out a lot in the thinking process. This is hard to find examples for, but I guess, just for my sake, I'll note this here. In focused state, it's like talking to an old friend. Ideas I haven't thought about for awhile will just return and generate more ideas and intrigue. I only notice this because of the rare positive experience of a focused state, no real negative memories of this impacting me, which makes it hard to dredge up examples for.

• Learning in general is just a hassle, which is the most entertaining thing for someone who dreads repetition and gets bored easily. I shy away from books, or articles, or my ideas, because they will mentally exhaust me if I'm not in a stimulated state, so I rely on games where my brain turns off entirely, so that I can be 1) doing something to keep the anxiety away and 2) not exerting myself too much. It's not like I'll get a migraine when I pick up a book, but my brain sends negative impulses whenever I consider something mentally exhausting, because of the time it takes to get into a semi-focused state, and the initial exertion cost.

• Forgetting. Ah, the struggle. Appointments are rarely kept, so I tend not to make them, since I feel bad for doing it. Meh.

• I'm really tired, so I'll leave it at that. This issue, though, translates to any sort of information-intake activity, which is really a vital part of the INTP happy-cycle. Ti and Ne really inhibited.

When I do luck into a state of focus, it's like a drug. It is one of my favorite emotional/mental states in the world (oh dopamine, how I love you). So rarely do I get to do what I want to do most in the world, which is just to be absorbed in ideation and to make progress on the ideas that my brain cares about. Being in one of those states now, I'm trying to discern what is different now compared to my usual state, without exaggeration or disillusionment/rose-colored glasses (isthistherightphrase).

What's better now:

• I can retrieve things from memory with no issue, opposed to the usual 3-10 (rough guestimated range) second lookup time. Occasionally, I'll be able to visualize/non-transiently-perceive-the-visualization-of the memory I'm looking up.

• Thoughts are still tangential, but I'll return to the important thought-threads post-tangent, and I'll notice when I'm tangenting, so I can choose to stop.

• When I'm writing out my thoughts, it's less like a two-year old's disconnected rambling's. If I wasn't focused right now, I'd have given up an hour ago after being demotivated by my inability to write the right things goodly.

• Easy memory retrieval is a big part of it, but overall I've noticed my thoughts are just faster. The experience of faster thinking, i.e. the faster traversal of thought to thought, i.e. each thought being finished to where I'm satisfied with the progress I've made in a shorter time frame, happens for the same reason that my augmented memory retrieval comes about. Stimulated brain means fasterer neuronses flying around in the noosphere, means overall brain fasterizing (it's so pointless to think about the whys and hows of immensely complicated concepts like this, which I just realized I was doing, and is why I'm plebianizing my wordzes now).

• I'm running out of stimulation here (I've already written the part after this, this is probably the second last thing I'll type).

I want to focus on some tried and untried possible solutions here for a bit.

Solutions:
-- Temporary Solutions:
---- Movies: Certain movies, not many shows, will light me up into a dopamine-powered christmas tree, and I'll get an hour or two to experience what it's like to not be a snailbrain. But, sadly, movies end, and that state of stimulation drops off after an hour or two. Also, there's a limited set of movies that can do that.

---- Novel Thought Paths: I vividly (but probably fallaciously) remember when I first reasoned out why free will can't be. The mental state was invigorating, I felt so alive. When I started piecing it together, my thoughts whirled effortlessly. These moments are so rare, though. To find a topic that really grabs me isn't hard, but to work up the stimulation to be able to make progress on the idea is, again, like pulling nails, and it doesn't work that way. I can't will myself into a focused state. The only way I've sort of seen that happen is when I stumble upon an interesting/novel thought, and then I build up stimulation from working on that new idea. Even if I tell myself: "Okay, this was interesting yesterday, let's think about that", it's only by chance that I'll have the stimulation to be able to make progress on the idea. Progress is necessary in order for the thought sequence to be stimulating. Even when that's worked out, I've noticed it happens when I already happen to be in a focused state (a rare occurrence).

---- Other: Books, music, rare friend interactions, and other can sometimes initiate these states, but it's all temporary, and takes effort and time to get into it.

-- Lasting Solutions:
---- Medication: I've been on medication before, but, for those with Inattentive ADHD, it can be hit or miss, and I'm dealing with the latter. The Combined subtype of ADHD has much more success with the medication. I've only tried amphetamines (Adderall, Vyvanse), and I know about the other medication types (methylphenidate, tricyclits(sp?), atomexetine, the blood pressure one), and I need to just start trying them. Amphetamines are, supposedly, the most effective one for the Inattentive ADHD-ers, but who knows, others could do the trick. Also trying combinations of medications is an option. Just need to start mixing it up.

---- Exercise: Hah. Moving on.. I kid. I do have a lot of physical ailments that make exercising/general life painful, but I think I'm in a place where I could will myself into a daily bike ride (it's a start).

---- Diet: This is basically becoming a self-help book. Blah blah, "it's worth it", blah blah, [convincing anecdotes], discipline, blah, incremental change, routine, "you can do it", blahblahokigotitbutwiththeshorttermmemoryofagoldfishi'llneverbeabletoplacethisplanintoaction.

---- Innovation: Skydive every morning, create a VR AR HUD which makes everything streamlined/interesting, or, my goto, justdealwithitnothingmattersanyway.

I read about, talk to, and live with people who can just live in this casual, seamless reverie all day, making progress on their ideas, their desires, having a nice internal monologue to keep them company, and here I am, stuck with snailbrain.

Spoiler

I didn't talk about the internal monologue bit, but basically I have none (which I'm not sure is uncommon but anywho), but just nothing's going on up there most of the time, because anything other than that would be draining, or mentally exhausting, I guess? I don't understand my brain.

I want to not have a headache when I want to learn new things (caused from trying to do taxing mental operations while understimulated I think), and not forget about my physical therapy appointment for the 3rd time in a row, and have an internal monologue (when focused, this is one of my favorite aspects), and be able to pay attention to class lecture, and yada yada yada. Also, this reminds me of a therapy session, which is probably where I should be venting this. Just need to schedule these things in a way that I'll listen to them. The "screw motivation, use discipline instead" ideology going around on reddit has been pretty helpful.

Anyway. I wonder if anyone made it here. If so, I hope you comment if you've run into similar issues or have something to say. If not, then well, you just missed out on the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything:

Spoiler

101010

Spoiler

I have nothing to offer except movie references

Spoiler

And tangents

Spoiler

I should get out more

Have a funny Louis C.K. video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJlV49RDlLE
Also, have my Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/nobutlogic/

 

[Dorian Tullus]

attempt crack cocaine

 

[JPS]

I feel you, man.

My diagnosis came in the second semester of senior year. All my life I had pretty much done what I wanted, meanwhile sliding by with average grades.

But after high school began, I felt awful. My grades plummeted.

Turned out I had a long-untreated mood disorder, for which I checked into a psych ward. I stayed there about two weeks near the end of sophomore year.

I recovered and performed well junior year. But come senior year, my grades sunk once again. Apparently, my ADD had been masked by my depression. The ennui inherent in both tends to produce confusion.

My psychiatrist put me on dexmethylphenidate, or Focalin, and it works—sometimes. Other times—now, for example—I feel lethargic and uninspired.

There are of course those rare moments of absolute focus that I live for. In those moments I could write an entire dissertation.

Anyway, hope it helps to know other people have had problems similar to yours. I wouldn't recommend crack cocaine.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Hey if you remember I had a plan to see my school psych counselor. Well I did make that appointment and have been to 4 sessions so far. She's not really all that interested in diagnosing me and referred me to where I could get tested for ADD (I remember you mentioned my doctor could offer evaluation and diagnosis as well), but she has stated that my descriptions sound more like the result of depression and my upbringing rather than ADD. It's weird because she does understand when I talk about social/relational stuff, but as for organizational, attention, and stimulation difficulties it feels like I haven't communicated how severely I perceive them. I guess I'll see what she says at the end of the sessions and then maybe try my doctor too.


Can you elaborate on this:

I can retrieve things from memory with no issue, opposed to the usual 3-10 (rough guestimated range) second lookup time. Occasionally, I'll be able to visualize/non-transiently-perceive-the-visualization-of the memory I'm looking up.

How did you improve your recall?


Skydive every morning sounds interesting. I have a list of other extreme sport type stuff I imagine would be helpful in getting a boost of motivation and concentration for the day.

 

[nobutlogic]

@Dorian Tullus

attempt crack cocaine

Only if you're buying. Okay, probably not; I'll stick to my sanity-preserving amphetamines :P

@JPS

But after high school began, I felt awful. My grades plummeted.

High school wasn't fun. History and English killed me, paying attention was a no-go, trying to retain things in lengthy texts, kill me. Also, I dreaded going to bed for some reason; I loved the nighttime quiet, I think? Bed time was always post midnight. Don't even get me started on socializing.

There are of course those rare moments of absolute focus that I live for. In those moments I could write an entire dissertation.

It's the strangest thing. Having this massively desirable state, which for some is just the norm. My father has impeccable focus and normal recall. Ah, what I would do for that. I'm tracking what leads to a good focus state for me, and hopefully I'll be able to narrow in on it. Russell Barkley, ADHD lecturer (see youtube), has taught me a lot, in why these focus lapses happen. Executive functions are impaired with those with ADHD, see here, and there are ways to manage this. Barkley has a video segment, 7:03 to 9:50, see here, where he describes the EF (executive function) tank. Our tank depletes quickly, so we can manage that by taking breaks, lightly drinking sugary drinks to keep glucose in the blood stream within the frontal lobe (when doing draining tasks), visualizing future rewards, exercising, positive self encouragement, and more. I think following these rules in tandom with monitoring what leads to good focus states (and then reproducing them) could eventually get us into more frequent states of high focus. That, and the right medication, at least in my case. I recommend watching the whole of that video sometime, along with the other ones he has on YouTube. When he refers to ADHD, he's referring to all types of ADHD jsyk.

@EyeSeeCold

Hey if you remember I had a plan to see my school psych counselor. Well I did make that appointment and have been to 4 sessions so far.

Ahhhhh, very nice! I'm glad you got around to it. That can be the hardest step.

She's not really all that interested in diagnosing me and referred me to where I could get tested for ADD (I remember you mentioned my doctor could offer evaluation and diagnosis as well), but she has stated that my descriptions sound more like the result of depression and my upbringing rather than ADD.

That's not a good sign. If she doesn't know about the disorder, she won't be able to properly diagnose you. It is very, very common to be misdiagnosed for depression when one has ADD. I would recommend going to get tested for it. Russell Barkley has noted, on multiple occasions, how ignorant the average doctor/psychiatrist can be with ADD/ADHD, and how often they'll shoot SSRI's (depression medication) at their patients whenever someone with ADHD walks in. It's certainly possible, possible, that you have depression. I'm not going to pretend I'm a psychiatrist here, but just know how often the average doctor/psychiatrist mixes these two up. Getting tested would be a good start.

It's weird because she does understand when I talk about social/relational stuff, but as for organizational, attention, and stimulation difficulties it feels like I haven't communicated how severely I perceive them.

This is actually really hard to communicate. I've had a doctor not believe me when I described my inability to focus, because I was focused at the time I was telling him about it (I tend to be more focused when I go to the doctor, because I get excited to talk about the disorder with someone). It's also hard because it's likely that your doctor has never had to deal with poor focus, so since she can't understand it, or empathize with it, it'll be harder for her to understand, or believe. I'd suggest taking in this list/chart, and then bringing up situations where these symptoms have happened to you (you might want to think about some examples and write them down beforehand).

Can you elaborate on this:

I can retrieve things from memory with no issue, opposed to the usual 3-10 (rough guestimated range) second lookup time. Occasionally, I'll be able to visualize/non-transiently-perceive-the-visualization-of the memory I'm looking up.

Ohhhh, sorry, I didn't explain that clearly. The list of bullet points after I said "What's better now:" is referring to what it's like when I happen to get into a really good focus state, out of mere chance. That's a verrrrrrrrrrrry rare occurrence, and is what I'm striving to get into on a regular basis (I can dream, right?). When I wrote that post, I was in one of those focus states, which I (poorly) mentioned earlier in the post.

Skydive every morning sounds interesting. I have a list of other extreme sport type stuff I imagine would be helpful in getting a boost of motivation and concentration for the day.

Hah, yeah, anything that pumps the adrenaline in might do the trick, right? I hope we can find something more realistic to do the trick, though.

 

[nobutlogic]

Wanted to include some more links.

More EF (executive function) links:

Article: http://www.additudemag.com/adhd-web/article/11120.html

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR1IZJXc6d8

There isn't the same wealth of research on the inattentive type as there is with the hyperactive and combined types of ADHD. Sad doot. Because of this, and that inattentive ADHD appears to be so much different than the other subtypes, Russell Barkley has spent many years working on his own definition of what inattentive ADHD is, i.e. a separate disorder: SCT, Sluggish Cognitive Tempo, (which he wants to be renamed as CDD, Concentration Deficit Disorder). He's declared that there are instances where it seems that someone can have both CDD and ADHD Inattentive, so he isn't trying to discredit ADHD Inattentive, but he's not fully confident in his own classification to say that the ADHD Inattentive label should be abandoned. Anyway, it might be good to check out this disorder.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME4UoIWCs4s

 

[Happy]

Too many things in your post to reply to - argh! I'll just rattle off some thoughts on a couple of the points.


On Achieving Hyper-Focus
I know the feelings you describe only too well, and for so long I struggled to even find the mental energy to chase the hyper-focus, let alone actually do it. It wasn't easy, but I kept at it (which seems to be what you're going through) and finally, in the last year or so, I've found myself in that state for much longer periods of time, and my productivity has skyrocketed.

What I've learned is that you should figure out what drives your hyper-focus (which you seem to already be doing) and chase it - all the time. You have to find what you're passionate about (i.e. develop an interest in something and let it grow until it's intense) and follow it, throwing yourself into it. That's how you get into that state of hyper-focus. Then you need to maintain it. I find maintaining a state of zen organisation helps immensely with this (I generally follow the GTD system) and allows you to be able to pick up where you left off, which is probably the hardest part of maintaining hyper-focus IMO.


On Medication
The thing I've found about ADHD-PI and medication is that the medication is not a solution. It won't fix the unproductive, uninterested person in you. It's not about taking medication to get into the hyper-focus state, but rather its about finding the state of hyper-focus and using medication to maintain your focus on it.

I take dexamphetamine (similar to adderall), but my rule is that I only take the prescribed dosage, and I only take it when it'll be useful.

 

[nobutlogic]

Too many things in your post to reply to - argh!

Haha, whenever I see anyone reply to me, that's my immediate thought process. Too much information to sortttttt. Oooh, idea. I'll highlight the base parts in the post that typically warrant a response, as guidelines. Also, spoilers to hide tangents. #progressive #oristhisweird #yolo

Spoiler

On Achieving Hyper-Focus
I know the feelings you describe only too well, and for so long I struggled to even find the mental energy to chase the hyper-focus, let alone actually do it. It wasn't easy, but I kept at it (which seems to be what you're going through) and finally, in the last year or so, I've found myself in that state for much longer periods of time, and my productivity has skyrocketed.

Tell me your secrets

What I've learned is that you should figure out what drives your hyper-focus (which you seem to already be doing) and chase it - all the time. You have to find what you're passionate about (i.e. develop an interest in something and let it grow until it's intense) and follow it, throwing yourself into it. That's how you get into that state of hyper-focus. Then you need to maintain it. I find maintaining a state of zen organisation helps immensely with this (I generally follow the GTD system) and allows you to be able to pick up where you left off, which is probably the hardest part of maintaining hyper-focus IMO.

This is great. Some hours before you posted this, I was thinking about what peaks my interest just in daily life situations, and all I could think of was whenever I happen to have a thought that I find interesting, I can sometimes latch onto that and build up some momentum, as long as there's more to think about with the idea.

So, just to clarify, you start out with your passionate idea in mind, you attack it with a sort of curious ferocity, (for me this would be something like thinking about or working on some sort of AI), build up some stimulation, and then, following the GTD work flow, you can maintain this state? I looked up GTD and I like the idea of it; I can relate segments within GTD to my own little strategies I've tried in the past, so it seems easy enough for me to try out.

I haven't tried this yet, (I'm going to try this out after this post), but an issue I have is: once I have to start doing some grunt work to continue working on [interesting idea/activity], that's when the focus starts to fade. Do you have this issue?

For example, my friend and I are making a website, and the premise is really fun, but it requires learning an entirely new programming language first. This sort of falls under a different category, i.e. "Grunt Work", but when you have to do this kind of work that's moderately interesting, have you found a way to stay focused through it? Do you work on something really interesting first, via the GTD system and all, build up a high focus state, and then switch over to the grunt work? Just curious if you've found a way around that.

Spoiler

On Medication
The thing I've found about ADHD-PI and medication is that the medication is not a solution. It won't fix the unproductive, uninterested person in you. It's not about taking medication to get into the hyper-focus state, but rather its about finding the state of hyper-focus and using medication to maintain your focus on it.

Ahh, that hit home. I've been so disappointed with medication, in that it doesn't bring me to a hyper-focus state. It does help, but it doesn't bring me into a working state on its own, there are other factors. The only thing that gets me to that high-focus state is an interesting idea/activity, granted that I'm not in zombie-focus mode.

Spoiler

Also, another thing to mention. I find the focus to be all or nothing, most of the time. It seems to be that the focus is in two zones:

• Zone 1: "Mediocre to Manageable"
• Zone 2: "Hyperfocus"

Zone 1 means I can get through the material, but usually with some sort of headache, a lot of repetition, some anxiety, and a feeling of incomplete comprehension, but at least it will get some sort of result out of it, despite it not being a fun experience.

Zone 2 is almost never having to strain to recall, or to progress the idea, and when you hit a roadblock, you can guide yourself through it in a pragmatic and calm way, resulting in an enjoyable to ectasy-inducing experience.

Spoiler

I take dexamphetamine (similar to adderall), but my rule is that I only take the prescribed dosage, and I only take it when it'll be useful.

Huh. Yeah, I never take too much, but I do take it regularly when I am using it. When I take it regularly (daily), I stop noticing its benefits after awhile, and its use seems to generally taper off with time. The take-it-when-useful approach sounds better, since you'll preserve the extra effect it has when you take it when you haven't had it in awhile. Either way, I've noticed that I can get into hyperfocus with or without medication, so I'll just experiment with that in the future.

 

[Werex]

well. i'm going to sleep 3:30 A.M. because i could not focus all the day in the research for university. I did not even get it half done.

I'm going to wake up 5:30 A.M. .
Attention disorder is a torture.

I'm not going to say anything more because my english sucks.