The importance of objectivity

[Old Things]

@Old Things
The source you provided inflated number of transwoman offenders by 16.7x in the figure. According to your own article, these people did not identify as women at the time of the assault.

That is, if you're using this as evidence that transwomen do sexual offenses, the number is 6% of what you see in that graph. They claim 32% are offenders, which means that only 32%*.06=<2% of the sexual assault attributed to transwomen here were committed by biological men identifying as women.

What you have is evidence that people transition in response to charges of sexual assault. This is a HUGE problem and certainly a difficulty for anyone that believes identity = self-identification, but it doesn't support your conclusion that transwomen are violent. The article itself states:

These patterns strongly suggest that some high-risk male sexual offenders are exploiting gender self-identification policies to gain access to women’s facilities.

So even the author doesn't believe this is evidence of transwomen offending.


From the rules:

If you want to express an opinion that marginalises another group, you are still free to do so. However, if you truly believe your thoughts are worth sharing after considering the cost of implicitly attacking another group, then you are required to back up that opinion with evidence.

Your evidence doesn't support your claim. I need either better evidence or a retraction of the claim. Thanks.

Here is what I will say based on this quote:

These patterns strongly suggest that some high-risk male sexual offenders are exploiting gender self-identification policies to gain access to women’s facilities.

1) Some "high-risk" males are exploiting gender self-identification to get access to women's facilities, and this is a universal phenomenon.
2) We don't know which males are being truthful with their gender self-identity and which ones are not to get access to women's facilities (or if there is a messy overlap in between).
Therefore,
C) The exploitative nature of gender self-identity for "high-risk" males (trans women), whether they truly identify as trans women or not, they pose a higher risk to women.

In other words, we don't actually have direct evidence that trans women are high-risk. However, men are exploiting gender self-identity as trans women to get access to women's facilities, and this is a universal phenomenon. So while there is no direct evidence that trans women are a danger to women, there is an abductive argument that is likely for that. Why? Because there is no evidence about men going to prison as the cause for them to identify as trans women to get access to women's facilities. There would need to be evidence that prison is the cause of their change of genre self-identity.

I am just trying to be fair with the evidence. I know you are not really big into logic and philosophy and like to stick to empiricism, but I am trying to make the most logical argument I can, given the data.

 

[Chibi]

In other words, we don't actually have direct evidence that trans women are high-risk.

 

[fluffy]

Non trans people are exploiting the system.

Not sure if that's the point but it is a problem.

 

[Chibi]

1) Some "high-risk" males are exploiting gender self-identification to get access to women's facilities, and this is a universal phenomenon.
2) We don't know which males are being truthful with their gender self-identity and which ones are not to get access to women's facilities (or if there is a messy overlap in between).
Therefore,
C) The exploitative nature of gender self-identity for "high-risk" males (trans women), whether they truly identify as trans women or not, they pose a higher risk to women.

These are all bigoted allegations which are empirically inaccurate on multiple levels, and the fact you don't have "evidence" and are working off your own right wing theories means that you're spreading bigotry just because.

 

[Old Things]

1) Some "high-risk" males are exploiting gender self-identification to get access to women's facilities, and this is a universal phenomenon.
2) We don't know which males are being truthful with their gender self-identity and which ones are not to get access to women's facilities (or if there is a messy overlap in between).
Therefore,
C) The exploitative nature of gender self-identity for "high-risk" males (trans women), whether they truly identify as trans women or not, they pose a higher risk to women.

These are all bigoted allegations which are empirically inaccurate on multiple levels, and the fact you don't have "evidence" and are working off your own right wing theories means that you're spreading bigotry just because.

It's called logic. You should try it sometime.

 

[Hadoblado]

@Old Things
The source you provided inflated number of transwoman offenders by 16.7x in the figure. According to your own article, these people did not identify as women at the time of the assault.

That is, if you're using this as evidence that transwomen do sexual offenses, the number is 6% of what you see in that graph. They claim 32% are offenders, which means that only 32%*.06=<2% of the sexual assault attributed to transwomen here were committed by biological men identifying as women.

What you have is evidence that people transition in response to charges of sexual assault. This is a HUGE problem and certainly a difficulty for anyone that believes identity = self-identification, but it doesn't support your conclusion that transwomen are violent. The article itself states:

These patterns strongly suggest that some high-risk male sexual offenders are exploiting gender self-identification policies to gain access to women’s facilities.

So even the author doesn't believe this is evidence of transwomen offending.


From the rules:

If you want to express an opinion that marginalises another group, you are still free to do so. However, if you truly believe your thoughts are worth sharing after considering the cost of implicitly attacking another group, then you are required to back up that opinion with evidence.

Your evidence doesn't support your claim. I need either better evidence or a retraction of the claim. Thanks.

Here is what I will say based on this quote:

These patterns strongly suggest that some high-risk male sexual offenders are exploiting gender self-identification policies to gain access to women’s facilities.

1) Some "high-risk" males are exploiting gender self-identification to get access to women's facilities, and this is a universal phenomenon.
2) We don't know which males are being truthful with their gender self-identity and which ones are not to get access to women's facilities (or if there is a messy overlap in between).
Therefore,
C) The exploitative nature of gender self-identity for "high-risk" males (trans women), whether they truly identify as trans women or not, they pose a higher risk to women.

In other words, we don't actually have direct evidence that trans women are high-risk. However, men are exploiting gender self-identity as trans women to get access to women's facilities, and this is a universal phenomenon. So while there is no direct evidence that trans women are a danger to women, there is an abductive argument that is likely for that. Why? Because there is no evidence about men going to prison as the cause for them to identify as trans women to get access to women's facilities. There would need to be evidence that prison is the cause of their change of genre self-identity.

I am just trying to be fair with the evidence. I know you are not really big into logic and philosophy and like to stick to empiricism, but I am trying to make the most logical argument I can, given the data.

I'm not here to argue. This isn't good enough. The onus is on you as the person who made the claim. I won't let you pass the burden.

Either provide evidence that transwomen are dangerous (e.g. an article that explicitly concludes that biological men who identify as woman are dangerous), or admit that your statement was conjecture and move on.

 

[Old Things]

@Old Things
The source you provided inflated number of transwoman offenders by 16.7x in the figure. According to your own article, these people did not identify as women at the time of the assault.

That is, if you're using this as evidence that transwomen do sexual offenses, the number is 6% of what you see in that graph. They claim 32% are offenders, which means that only 32%*.06=<2% of the sexual assault attributed to transwomen here were committed by biological men identifying as women.

What you have is evidence that people transition in response to charges of sexual assault. This is a HUGE problem and certainly a difficulty for anyone that believes identity = self-identification, but it doesn't support your conclusion that transwomen are violent. The article itself states:

These patterns strongly suggest that some high-risk male sexual offenders are exploiting gender self-identification policies to gain access to women’s facilities.

So even the author doesn't believe this is evidence of transwomen offending.


From the rules:

If you want to express an opinion that marginalises another group, you are still free to do so. However, if you truly believe your thoughts are worth sharing after considering the cost of implicitly attacking another group, then you are required to back up that opinion with evidence.

Your evidence doesn't support your claim. I need either better evidence or a retraction of the claim. Thanks.

Here is what I will say based on this quote:

These patterns strongly suggest that some high-risk male sexual offenders are exploiting gender self-identification policies to gain access to women’s facilities.

1) Some "high-risk" males are exploiting gender self-identification to get access to women's facilities, and this is a universal phenomenon.
2) We don't know which males are being truthful with their gender self-identity and which ones are not to get access to women's facilities (or if there is a messy overlap in between).
Therefore,
C) The exploitative nature of gender self-identity for "high-risk" males (trans women), whether they truly identify as trans women or not, they pose a higher risk to women.

In other words, we don't actually have direct evidence that trans women are high-risk. However, men are exploiting gender self-identity as trans women to get access to women's facilities, and this is a universal phenomenon. So while there is no direct evidence that trans women are a danger to women, there is an abductive argument that is likely for that. Why? Because there is no evidence about men going to prison as the cause for them to identify as trans women to get access to women's facilities. There would need to be evidence that prison is the cause of their change of genre self-identity.

I am just trying to be fair with the evidence. I know you are not really big into logic and philosophy and like to stick to empiricism, but I am trying to make the most logical argument I can, given the data.

I'm not here to argue. This isn't good enough. The onus is on you as the person who made the claim. I won't let you pass the burden.

Either provide evidence that transwomen are dangerous (e.g. an article that explicitly concludes that biological men who identify as woman are dangerous), or admit that your statement was conjecture and move on.

That's not fair! You can force me into an either-or fallacy!

 

[Hadoblado]

...

 

[Old Things]

Young girl is raped in school bathroom by transgender peer - Washington Examiner

In a recent exclusive, Post Millenial investigated a tragic rape story. The victim, a 12-year-old girl, was assaulted and violated in October 2021 by a transgender classmate in her school bathroom in New Mexico. She was neglected by her school, along with several of her peers. This awful...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[kuoka]

The reason that people bring up male to woman more frequently is because:
1) They are by far more dangerous
2) They are by far more common

I don't even want to debate whether they are dangerous or not. It should be clear as day that men do not belong in women's locker rooms and I'd just be agast at people questioning such a fundamental thing.

No. Factchecked #2.

How Many Adults and Youth Identify as Transgender in the United States?

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu

The ratio to transgender men and transgender women is almost 1:1, they are equally common.

0.6% * 340 million. In a population of 340 million, there is only 2 million transgender people in the USA. Yet they are excessively covered in the conservative news stories as a problem.

I stand corrected. As of 2022 (because there is nothing more recent on the subject), there is almost the same number of trans men as trans women.

This is just silly. It is impossible for the gender identity of 2 million people to change between 2022 and 2025. Like why would you even say that there is nothing more recent. It's like your brain is working overtime to dispute any source that isn't your source.

In regard to whether trans women are "more dangerous [to females]," I think it is naive to think that no one would exploit the idea of a man being able to go into a woman's restroom.

You said trans women were way more dangerous without proof. The discussion wasn't about there being one bad trans woman trying to game the system.

You do this all the time. Making a general claim about something, like trans women in this instance. Your claim is debunked so you make another claim along the lines of "look there must be a sexual predator among the good trans women, you guys are naive".

This is really unproductive. Go back and prove your original claim or admit that you can't substantiate your biased intuition.

In the interest of fairness I found some evidence showing that transgender women retain the offending rates of their birth gender. This means that they are about as likely to commit crime as cisgender males are, but not more so.

Loading…

committees.parliament.uk

This basically means that they are normal people with 70% or more of them being non-offenders. And given that males are about 2 times as likely to be offenders then this pattern remains in trans women.

Sex differences in crime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BTW, I feel bad if trans people are treated unfairly as long as it is not because a biological male wants to enter a female restroom/locker room.

There is no problem with a transitioned transgender woman who is performing a cultural role of a woman and using a women's room. Show how that is a problem first.

At this point the offense would be way greater if that trans woman went to a male locker room and had all of the guys ask her to leave.

We can discuss where the untransitioned trans people should go to make it the most comfortable for the general population.

What you have is evidence that people transition in response to charges of sexual assault. This is a HUGE problem and certainly a difficulty for anyone that believes identity = self-identification, but it doesn't support your conclusion that transwomen are violent. The article itself states:

Thanks for mentioning that. Yes, it is a problem and gaming the system does impact the public opinion against the actual trans people.

 

[Chibi]

Young girl is raped in school bathroom by transgender peer - Washington Examiner

In a recent exclusive, Post Millenial investigated a tragic rape story. The victim, a 12-year-old girl, was assaulted and violated in October 2021 by a transgender classmate in her school bathroom in New Mexico. She was neglected by her school, along with several of her peers. This awful...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

I literally searched for this story online for a long while, and I can't find a single article written about it that isn't from a right wing news outlet. No mention of legal names, case data, or evidence at all. As far as I can tell, this could be a made up story.

In fact, this is written at the end of original article publishing the story:

Update: This story has been clarified to reflect that none of the allegations have been proven and no charges have been filed by date of publication.

This is still not proof. Even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and believe this really did happen (I don't think it did), the details are muddy at best and this is one exception involving juvenile teens. This does not prove your larger point at all.

 

[Old Things]

Young girl is raped in school bathroom by transgender peer - Washington Examiner

In a recent exclusive, Post Millenial investigated a tragic rape story. The victim, a 12-year-old girl, was assaulted and violated in October 2021 by a transgender classmate in her school bathroom in New Mexico. She was neglected by her school, along with several of her peers. This awful...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

I literally searched for this story online for a long while, and I can't find a single article written about it that isn't from a right wing news outlet. No mention of legal names, case data, or evidence at all. As far as I can tell, this could be a made up story.

In fact, this is written at the end of original article publishing the story:

Update: This story has been clarified to reflect that none of the allegations have been proven and no charges have been filed by date of publication.

This is still not proof. Even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and believe this really did happen (I don't think it did), the details are muddy at best and this is one exception of involving juvenile teens. This does not prove your larger point at all.

Why would the left-wing media cover it when it goes against the whole narrative?

EXCLUSIVE: Female student alleges she was raped in trans-inclusive bathroom at New Mexico middle school

“I was raped. I was raped. I was raped. F*cking kill me.”

thepostmillennial.com

Judge Rules Loudoun County Teen Sexually Assaulted Female Student in Girls’ Bathroom

A Virginia juvenile court judge concluded Monday that a transgender teenager sexually assaulted a female student in a Loudoun County high school in May.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Chibi]

Why would the left-wing media cover it when it goes against the whole narrative?

Brother I am not looking for left wing media, I am looking for case data or police evidence, which is available to the public for any SA case in New Mexico

 

[Hadoblado]

OT, that's one person. That doesn't support the claim that the category of transwomen is more dangerous than any other. It's clear you don't have evidence, and that's okay - we already established that it's a hard thing to have evidence on. But if we don't have evidence, we don't make those statements here.

Either retract the statement or agree to stop talking about this stuff until you do. I don't want to threaten you with a ban because I've seen real progress with your religion thread, but I still need you to figure this out.

I'm going to bed. I want your next post on this thread to have what I'm asking for. I don't want to have to go back and forth on this forever.