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Intelligence by thalamic coordination

fluffy

Blake Belladonna
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The thalamus is the central hub of the brain where most every brain wave rhythmically starts. It has been shown that the phase delay front to back of the brain is most associated with IQ and this is reset by the thalamic subcortical structure.

The thalamus then needs to be high in complexity to let the front and back cortex work together on tasks. The overlapping fields synchrony then is based on how intricate the structure is to hold information.

With this in mind it is possible to map thalamic coordinates with EEG and do analytical comparison.

I am not sure about all the thalamus but parts of the brain can be more or less coordinated. Some tasks I score 135 and others 75 in IQ an example.
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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The thalamus isn't easy to measure because it's a deep brain structure. Electroencephalography takes measurements from outside the head and is usually used to measure cortical (outer brain) activity. Even then, it's got limited spatial resolution. EEG is limited by the scattering of the signal, meaning the further the measurement is from the electrode, the weaker the signal/noise ratio.

We're still not quite there yet as far as I'm aware. I've read some promising articles, but most articles over-promise on the frontier.

Can you cite me the claim about the front-back phase delay and thalamic resetting? Seems interesting.

What was your highest score and lowest score in? A 60 points difference is enormous. IIRC I've got terrible visual processing and digit manipulation relative to my higher scores.
 

fluffy

Blake Belladonna
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Cognition is not just a pavlovian stimulus response mechanism. It is not behavioral conditioning / association

Cognition requires implementing a strategy to test for a result. First we come up with one then we see step by step in self monitoring how close we are to achieving the desired outcome.

All this requires coordination of brain processes not accounted for in behaviorism.

These processes are multi dimensional.

-

I believe that the thalamus is alongside the other subcortical structure is crucial for coordinating movement. In reptiles they lack a cortex yet can do many things required for survival. Mammals use the cortex as a memory storage. The thalamus and other structures program the memory.

We can use this memory as a sketchpad, otherwise known as working memory, to form strategies. It can be used in the frontal lobes to inhibit action to determine the casual relationships it finds in its environment.

What the thalamus is then doing is allowing information transfer between the body and brain and brain to brain as the limbic emotional motivators. Making sure all systems translate into the correct motions as a holistic effort.

The neocortex is looking to find consequences of actions. And the limbic system tells us if these are good or bad. Together such as in the anterior cingulate we can self program by building up representation of what can and cannot happen. Using them to plan and map out contingencies.

In a deep sense INTP are making mental maps the most. Well INTJ are forecasting their goals the most.

@Hadoblado
@EndogenousRebel

What do you think?
 

fluffy

Blake Belladonna
Local time
Today 7:12 AM
Joined
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Messages
625
---
The thalamus isn't easy to measure because it's a deep brain structure. Electroencephalography takes measurements from outside the head and is usually used to measure cortical (outer brain) activity. Even then, it's got limited spatial resolution. EEG is limited by the scattering of the signal, meaning the further the measurement is from the electrode, the weaker the signal/noise ratio.

We're still not quite there yet as far as I'm aware. I've read some promising articles, but most articles over-promise on the frontier.

A layer of the cortex of the six layers is connected directly to the thalamus of all areas of the brain.

In my view it depends on what you are looking for. It is a deep structure but it makes all brain waves coordination possible. If the thalamus is working then you should see more coherence than not. Such as in Buddhist monks the reason they have high gamma waves is because the thalamus is bigger I have heard. That's a way of thinking about it, that what shows up on the surface is the result of functional activity where we don't need the structural part to be known exactly.

Can you cite me the claim about the front-back phase delay and thalamic resetting? Seems interesting.

Video: Something else about working memory MITCBMM


What was your highest score and lowest score in? A 60 points difference is enormous. IIRC I've got terrible visual processing and digit manipulation relative to my higher scores.

WAIS - 4

Processing Speed 75(2021)

But there is a trick I did not know that raises it by 15 - 20 points.

140 information(2016)
130 figure weights(2016)

75 working memory(2021)

I could have gotten 135 on figure weights but I was tired and almost fainted.

I am not at peak performance most of the time. So I would not know what my real potential is.
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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Generally scores are taken with a hidden +/-5. Your true score is 95% likely to be within 5 points of your performance. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

IMO what you're saying is analogous to car speed being determined by the gear box. It's certainly true to some extent, but if you point at any car that's not working and diagnose it as having a bung gear box you're going to be more wrong than right.

If you're trying to diagnose yourself, I'd look into what other conditions can impair information processing speed (e.g. it might be a myelination issue), and what symptoms of thalamic dysfunction you should also expect in the case you have it.

I'd also try to determine what sorts of information you struggle with because that might give you more hints. For example, I have specific difficulties in stressful situations where I'm navigating between multiple ambiguous stimuli. If I get stressed enough, I can no longer reliably parse complete sentences while reading. Sometimes if I'm overloaded and having to think, I need to shut my eyes in order to focus. These are all visual, but there's also an element of stress.
 

fluffy

Blake Belladonna
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The trick is that you copy the symbols sparsely out of order, you don't need to do them sequentially. I thought you had to do them one at a time.

When the gearbox is more complex, that's to say would work smoothly and automatically, then the speed of the car needs less time to shift and by that analogy the thalamus is allowing the brain waves to synch faster.

I don't know about thalamic dysfunction. Sometimes it's hard to inhibit my actions because not reacting is painful. But when it comes to consequences it is better not to be angry than to have worse things happen because of it. Sometimes it burns and myelination might be affected.

Emotionally I know that I am right most of the time but if I try to prove I am the other party gets angry. It is better to let them win by ignoring them because they will never change their mind. I learned not to argue with stupid people or with trolls. But still it makes me mad that people cannot be reasonable.

-

With the topic of the thread.

Thalamic coordination.

I got the idea from this article:

Homogeneity is negatively correlated with IQ

 

fluffy

Blake Belladonna
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I also cannot do much without feedback from others. I have problems thinking so I use language to see if others can give me ideas.

This is stressful but I'm not in an academic environment where I can learn differently.
 

EndogenousRebel

Even a mean person is trying their best, right?
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Location
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Cognition is not just a pavlovian stimulus response mechanism. It is not behavioral conditioning / association
Cognition is something that must happen and appears to be a process that emerges from the brain's physical and neurochemical architecture.

The "spirit" that emerges is the product of collaboration between causation DNA and matter.

Cognition requires implementing a strategy to test for a result. First we come up with one then we see step by step in self monitoring how close we are to achieving the desired outcome.

Would this be the phonological loop? Consciousness may merely be a snapshot at the tip of the iceberg of a mental machinations. We use it to make reference and compare things.

So there are other snapshots (representations) the brain creates that manifests as dreams and visions or whatever.

I believe that the thalamus is alongside the other subcortical structure is crucial for coordinating movement. In reptiles they lack a cortex yet can do many things required for survival. Mammals use the cortex as a memory storage. The thalamus and other structures program the memory.

We can use this memory as a sketchpad, otherwise known as working memory, to form strategies. It can be used in the frontal lobes to inhibit action to determine the casual relationships it finds in its environment.

What the thalamus is then doing is allowing information transfer between the body and brain and brain to brain as the limbic emotional motivators. Making sure all systems translate into the correct motions as a holistic effort.
Thalamus and that are in the brain in general are very metabolically active if I recall, particularly the Cingulate cortex, being like 20% of the brains energy use?

It would make sense for your center of sense of self and self evaluation would be closely tied to something that manages your hormones and motor (survival) movements. What a trip it is to be human I guess.

The neocortex is looking to find consequences of actions. And the limbic system tells us if these are good or bad. Together such as in the anterior cingulate we can self program by building up representation of what can and cannot happen. Using them to plan and map out contingencies.

In a deep sense INTP are making mental maps the most. Well INTJ are forecasting their goals the most.

@Hadoblado
@EndogenousRebel

What do you think?
Right, I've seen the notion that the neocortex is a hypothetical maniac.

Again it makes sense, and it does kinda align with reality I think. But what it actually turns out day to day is that it helps you inhibit certain behaviors.

If you depend on your neocortex to do those snap judgements more than a couple times a day, your going to be disappointed.

You want to put yourself in a position to succeed, and really change your behavior by switching out the unhealthy habits with healthy ones.

Rituals are crazy effective. This is because they appeal to the logic and the passion of the brain. Really do your best to inspire yourself. It really is a good skill to have.
 

fluffy

Blake Belladonna
Local time
Today 7:12 AM
Joined
Sep 21, 2024
Messages
625
---
Cognition is not just a pavlovian stimulus response mechanism. It is not behavioral conditioning / association
Cognition is something that must happen and appears to be a process that emerges from the brain's physical and neurochemical architecture.

The "spirit" that emerges is the product of collaboration between causation DNA and matter.

I think that a behaviorist approach can work if we only wanted to explore large variations of situations experimentally. We could find common characteristics similar to animal models.

I would say this would require tremendously huge computations and not fully get to the point of human psychology.

It does matter what is happening on the inside of a person even if we cannot see it.

Internal reasons and motivations exist for people that guide their actions not accounted for that will always resist statistical prediction.

Cognition requires implementing a strategy to test for a result. First we come up with one then we see step by step in self monitoring how close we are to achieving the desired outcome.

Would this be the phonological loop? Consciousness may merely be a snapshot at the tip of the iceberg of a mental machinations. We use it to make reference and compare things.

So there are other snapshots (representations) the brain creates that manifests as dreams and visions or whatever.

It could be in words or pictures what we Invision as a future state we want. But we do not always know that state which would be desirable. That is why we explore many varieties of states and see what is better.

Of course to explore we need resources and this puts constraints on us. I have seen that too many or two few is bad for creativity. And this is definitely variable given a persons cognitive facilities.

I believe that the thalamus is alongside the other subcortical structure is crucial for coordinating movement. In reptiles they lack a cortex yet can do many things required for survival. Mammals use the cortex as a memory storage. The thalamus and other structures program the memory.

We can use this memory as a sketchpad, otherwise known as working memory, to form strategies. It can be used in the frontal lobes to inhibit action to determine the casual relationships it finds in its environment.

What the thalamus is then doing is allowing information transfer between the body and brain and brain to brain as the limbic emotional motivators. Making sure all systems translate into the correct motions as a holistic effort.
Thalamus and that are in the brain in general are very metabolically active if I recall, particularly the Cingulate cortex, being like 20% of the brains energy use?

It would make sense for your center of sense of self and self evaluation would be closely tied to something that manages your hormones and motor (survival) movements. What a trip it is to be human I guess.

I contend that motion is the basis of intellect.

So nothing is static, we have processes happening constantly demanding the brain do its best to keep the body where it needs to be.

Choices are important though as we must look ahead to the future state we have extrapolated better allows us creating at our level of action intellectually.

The neocortex is looking to find consequences of actions. And the limbic system tells us if these are good or bad. Together such as in the anterior cingulate we can self program by building up representation of what can and cannot happen. Using them to plan and map out contingencies.

In a deep sense INTP are making mental maps the most. Well INTJ are forecasting their goals the most.

@Hadoblado
@EndogenousRebel

What do you think?
Right, I've seen the notion that the neocortex is a hypothetical maniac.

Again it makes sense, and it does kinda align with reality I think. But what it actually turns out day to day is that it helps you inhibit certain behaviors.

If you depend on your neocortex to do those snap judgements more than a couple times a day, your going to be disappointed.

You want to put yourself in a position to succeed, and really change your behavior by switching out the unhealthy habits with healthy ones.

Rituals are crazy effective. This is because they appeal to the logic and the passion of the brain. Really do your best to inspire yourself. It really is a good skill to have.

The balance is in what you are capable of.

Einstein would be a lousy ditch digger because he thinks too much but maybe it's his hobby after work or during relaxing. But if he had no papers to write things down it would waste his time tremendously.

Inhibition let's us observe the world and mentally maintain a distance. It is why those with greater self control can find more options in thoughts when looking at problems.

This is not association is a behaviorist sense. A loop is formed that sets in motion ideas. The idea is antithetical to behaviorism. Yet it allows humans to create goals. And become self determined.

We reason about things in the way current a.i. does not. Making goals. A thalamic center is why. Interaction with the world and creating a distance. But also making the information integrated. Learning to learn.

The ACC might be a good way to look at how ideas form when it is trying to consider, intentionally, what is best. Meaning inhibition requires knowing the environment has options we want at the stages we are in. Again some are harder or easier than other environments for each person. Kids get to explore more ideas than adults given the constraints on them as groups. What matters is if an organism can be self sustainable, with humans that is by the intellect.
 

EndogenousRebel

Even a mean person is trying their best, right?
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The ACC and PCC are basically prototypes for the neocortex. It's safe to assume that it is the seat of most of our experience is formed and shaped there and the singular cortex and insula, the neocortex mostly being like a leash to constrain the primate within.

That aside from the point, do you mind me asking why you are so interested in this?

It's my personal opinion that enlightenment through intellect just leads you to an ever-expanding eagle eye view of a desert.

You see that you are one grain of sand, as you learn more you reach higher elevation, but you will find no respite, because life is more than just the fire of intuition and flow of the thinking mind.

Just curious, what information do you hope to uncover and how would you like to see it applied. Define your goal.
 

fluffy

Blake Belladonna
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---
The ACC and PCC are basically prototypes for the neocortex. It's safe to assume that it is the seat of most of our experience is formed and shaped there and the singular cortex and insula, the neocortex mostly being like a leash to constrain the primate within.

That aside from the point, do you mind me asking why you are so interested in this?

It's my personal opinion that enlightenment through intellect just leads you to an ever-expanding eagle eye view of a desert.

You see that you are one grain of sand, as you learn more you reach higher elevation, but you will find no respite, because life is more than just the fire of intuition and flow of the thinking mind.

Just curious, what information do you hope to uncover and how would you like to see it applied. Define your goal.

I suppose it begins with Maslow's hierarchy of needs. In the time I discovered that computers exist and other technologies. I want to make them think. So around 12 years old is where I became aware of self actualization. I had food shelter family friends but after that I wondered what came next. Since I was limited in what I could do and had access to, I spent time thinking about thinking.

If I could understand how thinking happens I would be able to make a Digimon I saw on tv.

Maybe if I had one we could do things together.

That was the extent of the plan.

Today my goals are:

1. To feel better.
2. Help my family
3. Learn stuff
4. Get a girlfriend

I believe computers can read brain waves they could not before since algorithms have advanced and do 100 trillion ops for cheap.

This might tell me something about myself.

In about a year I can get one I just need to get one family member to Colorado and then other things. In the mean time learning is difficult not feeling well so I need to socialize more.

I discovered that I can rest better and eat better if I try to keep on physical tasks. So far as it takes money, I learn things on YouTube and might get a VR headset going in that direction.

The last goal should not be a problem after I become stable without the family member currently in my house. I spent alot of time helping people in my family and not myself because I was lacking in self awareness.

After I get them to Colorado I will start doing things by myself and look for friends outside my family. Noting that I need to find groups that have the same interests as I do.

It will take effort to feel better or I would not be able to improve. How much depends on me having this recently understanding I need more self awareness I lacked before.
 

EndogenousRebel

Even a mean person is trying their best, right?
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1. To feel better.
2. Help my family
3. Learn stuff
4. Get a girlfriend
1. Overcome depression (daily)
2. Do things for other people
3. Grow
4. Share the bountifulness of your labor of love to someone who is apt to be loved by you
 

fluffy

Blake Belladonna
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I find that I am too involved in my feelings.

That I need to create a distance between me and my desires.

Unfulfilled desires is depression.

I guess that the front of the brain can do this if I practice holding back in clam situations.

At times I put in a lot of effort that failed.

Which felt bad.

Repeat failure is hard, it disables you.

Of course one can keep trying but in smaller steps. To reflect is best as that allows patience. Without overwhelment.

I have good ideas. I like them. But I have trouble testing them. Rather I write them down.

I have notebooks. Printouts. Folders.

The most abstract ideas I find harder to describe.

I would not know how to analyze it mathematically.

I can't program computers to model it either.

All I can do is think more after resting.

It would be both divergent and convergent.

Not intractable but attentive.

I just need to reflect more.

Stand back and see it.
 
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