INTP Problem With Guardian Manager

[PossumOfTheGrotto]

Hello, everyone! I just joined this site; this is actually my first post.

I recently got into the Keirsey Sorter and am finding it incredibly fascinating and hugely useful in undertanding myself and others...especially others with whom I am having conflicts or don't seem to "get"...

I am having a huge, huge problem with a Guardian boss. I strongly suspect this person is an ESFJ...which is my exact opposite, basically...I need some real suggestions here on what do, which I would be very grateful to receive any and all help...so, please; help me! HELP ME!
THE SITUATION --

This woman is the supervisor of my minor program in college. Several years ago when we first met, she was a big advocate for me and someone I would have considered a friend and mentor. I thought we were getting along great and felt it was a very fruitful friendship for both of us.

I think what happened was this:
I was the president of the student group attached to the department for two years; as an INTP, I spent a lot of time working to cull unnecessary wasted resources and to improve processes. I initiated a lot of programs, events and workshops that were never done before. I brought a fair amount of new people in, but wasn't very strict about rules and regulations. (Such as filling out paperwork, collecting our nominal dues from poor college students, and the like.) As a student in the program, I also completed some innovative research and presented it at several local and national conferences. I do creative work, too, and have had several shows and publications on our department themes and to its credit.

I noticed towards the end of our good relationship that she started to rely on my expertise pretty heavily as a matter of course, and seemed to assume that I had a responsibility to do whatever she told me exactly as she told me, even if it wasn't convenient for me. This didn't go over very well with me (I also have other commitments and like to have a personal life), and I wasn't very up on doing things exactly as she told me to do them especially if another way was better. I also didn't like how she seemed to expect absolute deference to her wants and feelings on all things. (For example - we were part of a traveling class together...she kept setting our group departure times very early in the morning, like at 7:00 or 8:00 AM, even if there was nothing going on for several hours and we were out finishing workshops until after midnight...when we as a group brought this up to her, she seemed angry and irritated that we questioned her schedule.) Things like that.

In the last year, however, she has very much withdrawn and pulled back. She no longer answers e-mails using the same friendly terminology, is curt and matter of fact in all conversations, avoids social contact (even e-mailing that she was"very busy right now" when I mentioned I might be stopping by to drop off an item in her office for the department bookshelf), seems passive-aggressive and has stopped offering me opportunities (often now seemingly getting in the way.)

Every week something new would happen; she would tell me that a luncheon was "invitation only with limited seating" (previously I had always attended all events)...I sent an e-mail about an upcoming student group event to the department listserv, only to discover that my e-mail address had been removed from the listserv without notification (happened tonight)...or I would try to apply for a program and she would discourage me (numerous times)...I asked for a letter from her to take a professor to excuse me from class for a big midafternoon department event I was supposed to be performing at, and she actually refused and asked me just to try talking to the professor alone and telling him I wanted to go (not past procedure at all)...these kinds of things, right and left.

As you might imagine, this was all very shocking to me. At first I was pretty upset, hurt and angry about everything, as well as being completely confused and mystified. I was pretty pissed that she was seemingly purposefully becoming a hindrance instead of a help, while not offering me the same opportunities as the other students and still expecting me to work hard.

As someone who has been always done good work for the department (which they seriously are lacking in other students, to be blunt) - I really don't feel like I deserved this. My respect and admiration of her has fallen in relation to those behaviors. At this point, all I want to do is find a way to smooth things over enough that we are civil and cordial again in her eyes. I don't trust her or like her very much now and probably never will again, but she is in charge of resources and referrals. I don't want her to continue getting in my way and preventing me from doing what I want to do. I do not want to be around her and that is leeching over to department events, but I'm trying not to let my distaste cancel out four years of hard work.

What should I do?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Yeah, life is a bitch, ain't it?

Do what I do and arrange meetings with the individuals and accuse them of professional misconduct. However, I have been banned from attending a few subjects now. Irreconcilable differences with the lecturers.

Apparently if I have an issue with the academic staff I must seek council from their superior. I was justified in all cases, the proceeding formal processes verified this. At least now I don't have to deal with aberrant individuals who titillate at the very thought of biased marking or creating unrealistic demands without providing notification.

Nothing annoys me more than someone not fulfilling the obligations of the job that they are paid to do. In addition, I dislike the idea of aberrant individuals in a position of power over myself and individuals whom are not able to articulate an argument to supposed authority.

Perhaps, you should give up on the additional activities you have assigned yourself. It is probably a useless venture.

To resolve your situation you must be forthright. Arrange a meeting with the person and discuss the issues. If this fails arrange a meeting with her superior. Attempting to actually resolve issue signifies that you at least respect your self.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I agree that you should go to someone who outranks her and to expose her behavior. That's the only way any real professional progress will get done.

On the personal side, there is nothing you can do. ESFJ by functions are:

Fe - Want to do what they feel is best for everyone, without even asking the people for opinions; coupled with Si they are emotionally manipulative

Si - Afraid of change, love stability and predictability

Ne - Pretend to be eccentric and groundbreaking but really just doing things that nobody would do because it's a waste of time.

Ti - No sense of logic at all. They are very inconsistent in their actions yet to some degree retain their predictability (Si). Question an ESFJ about the irrationality of their thoughts and they fly of the handle.

 

[Booko]

You have made the cardinal mistake of dealing with an ESTJ, which is, assuming they also realize there are multiple "good" ways of dealing with things and would like to experiment finding out which one works best for a situation. Innovation is not exactly an ESTJ strength...they thrive on sticking to a known process.

In addition, this person seems rather insecure, so now you have just shown her up by accomplishing things by thinking "outside the box."

I concur, you are best off at this point going to her superior. You have sunk yourself with her. In the future know how to recognize an ESTJ, and especially an insecure one, and realize that if you are an underling you either dance to the ESTJs tune or move on to something else. It will save you a lot of grief to suck it up and do this.

I would say that ESTJs are the bane of my existence (my mom is ESTJ) but my bf is ESTJ and we manage to get along well. I've learned there are certain things of little importance to me that she insists get done in a particular way, and I let her have at it and just follow her lead. In return she's come to lean on me to help her cut through the emotional noise when she hits a big problem and help her focus and find a solution that's outside the bounds of "normal" for her.

But God help me, I hope I never have another ESTJ boss again in my life. As I'm fairly old, I may be that lucky.

 

[PossumOfTheGrotto]

Nothing annoys me more than someone not fulfilling the obligations of the job that they are paid to do. In addition, I dislike the idea of aberrant individuals in a position of power over myself and individuals whom are not able to articulate an argument to supposed authority.

Perhaps, you should give up on the additional activities you have assigned yourself. It is probably a useless venture.

Yeah, it certainly is a bitch at times. I know exactly what you mean about petty tyrants and I despise those individuals. They seem to exemplify all the wasted energy, insecurity and redundancy of the worst bureaucracies.

Sadly, I am thinking you are right about those activities being useless ventures.

 

[PossumOfTheGrotto]

On the personal side, there is nothing you can do. ESFJ by functions are:

Fe - Want to do what they feel is best for everyone, without even asking the people for opinions; coupled with Si they are emotionally manipulative

Si - Afraid of change, love stability and predictability

Ne - Pretend to be eccentric and groundbreaking but really just doing things that nobody would do because it's a waste of time.

Ti - No sense of logic at all. They are very inconsistent in their actions yet to some degree retain their predictability (Si). Question an ESFJ about the irrationality of their thoughts and they fly of the handle.

It is interesting to see it all broken down like that. That completely makes sense as to who this woman is and all the things I don't like about her. I wish I'd had this understanding several years ago, because it could have saved me the hassle.

 

[PossumOfTheGrotto]

You have made the cardinal mistake of dealing with an ESTJ...

...But God help me, I hope I never have another ESTJ boss again in my life. As I'm fairly old, I may be that lucky.

::laughing hard:: That sums it all up very neatly and precisely. I think I may start quoting you on this.

 

[PossumOfTheGrotto]

It seems like everyone is thinking that the solution is to go over her head, and I think you all are right. It seems like she might be leaning towards the rigid and unflexible side of her type, in addition to having developed a prejudice against me due to personality habits that I can't really do anything about at this point. I'm not going to change to fit her wants, and she's not going to change to be more open and innovative. So the only answer to end this standstill is to get someone else involved.

I'm going to make an appointment with her department chair next week. If I can't salvage a workable relationship with her, then the least I can do is: A.) make sure she doesn't prevent me from exploring my options; and B.) make sure someone higher up is aware that she's doing this, in case it happens to another student. I'm crossing my fingers that he isn't also Guardian type.

Thanks for helping me figure this out.

 

[eruceht]

Just stumbled acrossed your thread and found it interesting because I have had a simular experence. I was in a management position and whem my INTJ boss quit and I was exposed to a most likely ESFJ owner. I'm INTP but at that time didn't understand how the ES types perceived me. Regardless of my work ethics and accomplishments I never received any recongnition and was treated differently than the extroverted managers that only used BS to gain recongnition. It finally got so bad that I quit but now I see that as a big mistake. Because of our indepndents and aloofness INTPs are often misunderstood and their abilitys are overlooked. INTPs have to make sure that others in the workplace understand our ways and what we are good at or the ES dominated world will just ignore us. You must talk to someone that will listen to you or it's only going to lead to more fustration.

 

[EFM]

Personally I solve the whole INTP-ESTJ conflict with a good bit of blunt verbal assault. You can never go wrong publicly humiliating the generally norm-bound types. Catch them off guard and you can bull-doze their internal structure. This works amazingly with "equals" in the hierarchy of work.
(This is just my opinion... as a very stubborn INTP)