Type and Drug Use

[EyeSeeCold]

Just wondering if there's a chart or other form of graph on this somewhere.

 

[blotfelt]

http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/34/3/370

 

[snafupants]

Enneagram and supposed drug predispositions. Not MBTI, but it seemed superficially interesting. Obviously, most INTPs are type fives for the most part.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/addictivepersonality.asp

 

[DesertSmeagle]

Im on anti depressants haa..id totally try LSD if it wasnt so dangerous. or any other psycho drug

 

[ElderToadstool]

I've read that INTPs in college are among those most frequently busted for drug or alcohol violations. Having said that, I love drugs.

 

[Agent Intellect]

There's a big difference between recreational or exploratory drug/alcohol use and drug/alcohol abuse.

I found the article blotfelt posted interesting:

http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/34/3/370

 

[Ska]

Im on anti depressants haa..id totally try LSD if it wasnt so dangerous. or any other psycho drug

What makes you think LSD is so dangerous?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article6894710.ece
http://www.helium.com/items/1083952-why-lsd-is-safer-than-alcohol

 

[onthewindowstand]

If I had the chance I would take LSD in a second.

 

[Sunyata]

I've tried pretty much everything (Acid/LSD, shrooms, mescaline, dxm, along with a few others I don't like to admit), but I've never tried anything too intensely. All pretty low-level trips besides the one time in college I made those weed brownies way too strong and ended up tripping hard for like 15 hours.

I also tried DMT recently which was, put shortly, absolutely the most insane experience of my life. Words can't touch it, but I basically lost all sense of self and realized that everything in life is just a dream that doesn't touch who we actually are. It was as if someone had shaken me and told me that this "life" is just a dream.

But then I went back and forgot 99% of it.

 

[snafupants]

My only reservation with LSD is where it is currently being chemically synthesized. Since the Pickard/Apperson lab was shut down by the DEA in 2000, the quality is brought into question. That lab provided 90% of the world's LSD, some insance stat like that. They would just have tubs of chemicals stored there. Basically, I would be more up for shrooms first, then mescaline, then LSD, then DMT. Although DMT does not seem that dangerous; the pineal gland secretes endogenous DMT anyway during dreams and near sleep time, so your body should be prepared to ward off any deleterious, lingering effects. I stopped drinking a while back because the cost/benefit ratio was way skewed on the cost side. With psychedelics though, something lasting and beautiful, at least it seems like, has the potential to take place; granted your head and externals are right before and during the trip.

 

[avanover]

If I had the substance, though it is illegal here in the US, I would take N,N-DMT.

 

[Sunyata]

My head being "right" internally is why I hardly do psychedelics these days. It's not that anything is wrong, its just that I have a much more negative view of myself and the world unconsciously than I do consciously, and sometimes that really comes out. Or at least runs in the background. Not in the form of a hellish trip or anything, but just in a form of background anxiety. I can't even smoke anymore because every single time I get high I just psychoanalyze myself to the point where its physically exhausting.

I actually drank the DMT with an MAOI and some anti-nausea pills. Before the trip kicked into high gear, it made me feel about 1,000 lbs lighter and happier. I felt a much greater connection with my body and was disappointed I wasn't taking particularly good care of it. Part of me thought I became spiritually enlightened and that I was never going to go back to that sad physical plane of pain and suffering. I really badly wanted to believe, but of course I knew this was untrue. No matter what the realization, though, no matter how deep or seemingly powerful it is, I do believe that drug trips and drug trips and should not be looked upon as true realizations. Rather, they should be looked upon as rather intriguing insights which may or may not point at a deeper aspect of the universe and/or consciousness.

I'm very confident in the power of the sober, dedicated human mind. If you want to be happy bad enough and you have the wisdom to follow the path and give in to its lessons, you will get there. My mind might not be so happy right now, but I do believe that if I stick on this rocky path and maintain my rather nebulous faith, I will get to that point.

 

[snafupants]

My head being "right" internally is why I do psychedelics so rarely nowadays. It's not that anything is wrong, its just that I have a much more negative view of myself and the world unconsciously than I do consciously - and sometimes that comes out. Not in the form of a hellish trip, but just in a form of anxiety. I can't even smoke anymore because of this.

I actually drank the DMT, though - with an MAOI and some anti-nausea pills. Before the trip kicked into high gear, it made me feel about 1,000 lbs lighter and happier. I'm confident in the power of the dedicated human mind that is faithful in something higher and greater. When given the time and power to get to its destination, I do believe in its ability to achieve a lasting and supreme nondual consciousness that is far greater than any psychedelic trip (even though psychedelics may have removed me from the sad and fruitless religion of materialist, rigid atheism).

Many profound thoughts here. That nondual state is the actual reason why I would consume psychedelics to begin with; the visuals and sensory distortion as secondary, and its so far behind that striving for nondual consciousness that its negligible at best. From what I have gathered, an MAOI would be the correct preparation for an ayuhuasca trip; although I would do tons of research before I actually consumed the tea.

Achieving nondual consciousness and erasing that divide is an incredible feat without the use of these substances. For anyone in yoga who has approximated or attained this level of awareness, my hats off to you. As an aside, although I have so much more work to do, some meditations have produced psychedelic events. I talked about this in another thread but the visual and perceptual crux of the matter was seeing what Terence McKenna referred to as self [red/orange] dribbling basketballs, subjective feelings of lightness and floating (as you described), a veritable feeling (oxymoron?) that reality was more real than yesterday, and sensations of sharp electrical current in my extremities. But, as I have already alluded to, I am far from perfect and embrace any changes that come my way. These little disclaimers are put in because some people feel haughty afterwards and feel like they have "figured out" reality, which in 99.99% of cases is ridiculous.

If you would not mind sharing, what sorts of issues do you think are plaguing you from your subconscious? That explanation made sense to me, but perhaps an example would help to think it through further. That sucks about your anxiety. What I tell myself while its going on is that in a few years this wont even be remembered; the basic idea is that while no one survives life, the preponderance of people survive its daily punches.

 

[Sunyata]

I would love to describe them, but its really difficult. I grew up in a kind of hectic household, and I was also born with a really ****y condition which resulted in a broken leg in second grade, five years in a wheelchair/braces, and then a below-the-knee amputated leg in sixth grade. Luckily the darker and more insidious (and more common) symptoms of this condition have yet to show themselves, which means they probably won't in any extreme fashion.

Anyway, like I said, its hard to get to the bottom of what plagues me. I decided to start seeing a therapist about six months ago, and that has been helping me make it up the first few steps maybe. A lot of it has to do with feeling worthless, stupid, and inferior. I grew late, and a very few kids made fun of me in high school. I took this all very seriously. I also make mistakes sometimes because I think too much. I also had a friend who has a very judgmental part of him that always made me feel especially ugly and worthless. I actually live with him now unfortunately. At some point early on in my life I basically completely wrote myself off as a human being that could possibly deserve or experience the happiness life has to offer people, especially regarding connections with femalez. That is why I'm 25 and have never been in a relationship. Battling all of this for the better part of my life, and looking for happiness in thought or in my ego, I have became a rather bitter person under my somewhat optimistic and positive exterior. I actually wish for others to fail. I see myself as such a failure that trying seems futile, so my mind apparently decides that watching other people from the sidelines and wishing for them to fail is the only place I can find happiness.

This frustrates me greatly. I have at times watched my mind and its habits like a hawk, writing over 130 pages in MS word in two months analyzing certain thoughts, why they occur, what they represent, and so on and so forth until they are broken down to their barest root.
It was time consuming though, and I left a lot of questions unanswered.

Still, most of my powerful realizations - all of them actually - have come in a sober mindstate. Usually, I'm just thinking like I normally do. One though leads to another leads to another, only this time, one thought suddenly leads to something else. I still have a way to go - quite a ways to go, judging my inability to put an end to any of my awful habits - but I really hope I can get there some day. I am worried that I will have to be like Eckhart Tolle and hit absolute rock bottom before I can finally let go of the little my ego has to offer me.

I should note that my quest came well before the readings of nondual writers. When I read the Power of Now it blew my mind not because of its amazing content, but because I felt like I was reading my own writing. I knew all of it. But I just can't ****ing truly feel it.

 

[Sunyata]

I'm not sure if the lightness I felt with DMT was other than me coming into a deeper connection with my body. Everything changed. The room looked a not nicer, although not tripped out. And other people lost the fangs that are always being bared in front of me wth my projection. It might have even been the results of the MAIO because the DMT got out of control pretty quickly. I mean, in a way that was completely mindblowing, it became clear that time didn't exist and that we are just these thoughts were create in the pure, zero-dimensional eternal space of our soul. But then again, the fact I experienced it like this so much was probably in many ways just a reflection of the non-duality related thoughts that are bouncing around in my mind almost constantly.

 

[snafupants]

Well, you are obviously not stupid and if you are worthless, then we all are. My advice is to not put too much pressure on yourself over the female situation, thats only going to be self-destructive: most people figure it out with time. Twenty five is not that old at all. As for the bullying, no one with genuine confidence would put you down so they could get up. As for wishing that people failed, that will never produce happiness, just faux happiness, a type of novelty and recreation which leaves you in the same place you started. If you feel that sobriety is the most conducive mind-state to progress, then stick with that. I would advise against using any substance for escape (i.e., without the intent on progress).

 

[Sunyata]

I am questioning my idea that I should stay sober for progress. I do not know if it is right or not or if I'm just avoiding how loud my unconscious becomes in an altered state. A romantic part of me assumes that enlightenment could never be dependent upon drug use. But yeah, getting over that negative part of me that wishes for others to fail is my biggest objective at the moment.

I think I am one of the few, unfortunately, that needs to become "enlightened." My mind is too aware to attach to anything other than nonduality (nonattachment).

So yeah, nonduality occupies the better part of my thoughts every single day. What particular insights have you had? What are your methods? I've never had a conversation with another nondual thinker so I am just curious.

 

[Sunyata]

On a coincidental note, I was just invited to take some shrooms and see Avatar so I shall be doing that tonight

 

[snafupants]

This should not be taken as a pejorative or put down - especially because some of this applies to me also - but when someone is introverted or withdrawn, enlightenment or spiritual development seems like the clear transition from mental development; that is, a move from the mental to the spiritual which effectively bypasses the social. As seemingly superficial as it sounds, Dostoevsky's book The Idiot had a pretty substantial impact on me. Since reading it a few years ago, the desire to be a good human being supplanted the desire to be seen as an intelligent one. For instance, even though it might make me temporarily look like an ass, I will go out of my way to help people or allow them to help themselves. The majority of people, although it might not be readily obvious, are not intentionally endeavoring to thwart or irritate other people; in their golf ball sized consciousness and selfishness, what has been alternatively called self contraction, they literally do not know any better.

This does not sound too sophisticated, however residing in the moment and understanding the emotional underpinnings to your actions and thoughts is instructive, at least for me. For instance, a small realization is that whatever actions I feel compelled to spin from consciousness to reality - well, its all reality - have their roots more in my interpretation of the events, which can definitely be flawed, than in reality proper. Therefore, if your interpretation is positive, or less stygian, your actions will be also be so, which will attract more good events and so on (interpretation, action, positive attraction, return). Some people need the mind-state of meditation or entheogens to allow this openness of interpretation, they need that assurance that reality really is a blank slate. This is part of the nondual state and cultivation process.

The wrong attitude for taking psychedelic drugs or pursuing yoga, in my opinion, is trying to erode problems and hope they go away without putting in any real effort. Or, similarly, wishing that magically ones perspective will be altered enough with these substances that the problem will nearly fix itself. Do not be a victim to either putative shortcut. Another misguided, and invariably destructive, motive is doing it for personal gain. This only leads to hubris in my experience and the ones extolling the practice or drug are probably more miserable and alone than when they started.

 

[shoeless]

i think it might just generally be prevalent among xNxP's. i don't know if i'm an INTP or a JRWX or what the fuck i am, but i'm pretty damn sure i'm just some asshole xNxP who loves her some kiiiiiiittens.

although i do agree that there's a difference between experimentation and abuse, and i haven't quite crossed that line, nor do i intend to.

WHY AM I PUTTING THIS ON THE INTERNET. i'll delete this shit later.

edit: some mild editing will do the trick! oh ho ho! nobody will suspect ANYTHING!

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Thanks for the links. I've read the Enneagram one already, just forgot about it though.

I also would do shrooms in a heartbeat if I had them. I was working on a positive mentality in 2007-2008, but now it seems I need to start all over. I've read that growing them yourself will help against bad trips as you would feel a connection to them. LSD seems too intense for anyone with even a hint of a disorder, I don't think I'd ever be ready for it. As for weed, Im just not that big on smoking in general, I can see myself being comfortable toking a bong sometime in the future though.

 

[DesertSmeagle]

What makes you think LSD is so dangerous?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article6894710.ece
http://www.helium.com/items/1083952-why-lsd-is-safer-than-alcohol

hmm cool.. im just scared of going on a bad trip haha...could be some scary shit

 

[ElderToadstool]

If you're gonna take shrooms you might as well take LSD. While in terms of dosage LSD is stronger (LSD: Threshold dose 25-75 micrograms, Standard dose 200-500 micrograms; psilocybin: Threshold 2-8 milligrams, Standard 20-40 milligrams) the chemicals effect the same portions of the brain and produce very similar experiences. While there are differences they are more qualitative than quantitative.

 

[Sunyata]

Well that was a good, incredibly mild trip.

More than anything it was about how unconscious I am. About someone slapping me on the face, trying to wake me up. Pointing at the movie screen, and the silence into which the speakers echoed, telling me "Look dude, you're awake, you're awake, wake up, wake up."

Unfortunately its not that easy. I know the road won't be easy and I'm not even sure where to start. My best guess says I have to find that faith and drive it into the present moment, don't fall asleep into my personal story.

I need to take a nap.

 

[snafupants]

This one - which came my way about six months ago - is definitely more stimulating than the enneagram one, and the implications are much more pervasive. Somone might dig it. Robert Anton Wilson, genius? Soothsayer? Crazy? Village idiot?

http://www.deepleafproductions.com/wilsonlibrary/texts/raw-8-systems.html

 

[ElderToadstool]

If you like Robert Anton Wilson you should read the Illuminatus! books he wrote with Robert Shea while they were editors at Playboy back in the 60's. Enough drugs, conspiracy theories, and crazy science fiction to fulfill the most far-out acid fantasy.

Leary's eight circuit model of consciousness, however, seems like bullshit to me. The idea that tools for our future evolution are latent in our brain right now goes against even the simplest evolutionary thought, and is more influenced by thinkers like Teilhard du Chardin than any actual science. Any biologist will tell you that evolution is not teleological, as Leary seems to suppose. If you're looking for some good psychedelic psychology I would suggest the works of Stanislav Grof.

 

[snafupants]

If you like Robert Anton Wilson you should read the Illuminatus! books he wrote with Robert Shea while they were editors at Playboy back in the 60's. Enough drugs, conspiracy theories, and crazy science fiction to fulfill the most far-out acid fantasy.

Leary's eight circuit model of consciousness, however, seems like bullshit to me. The idea that tools for our future evolution are latent in our brain right now goes against even the simplest evolutionary thought, and is more influenced by thinkers like Teilhard du Chardin than any actual science. Any biologist will tell you that evolution is not teleological, as Leary seems to suppose. If you're looking for some good psychedelic psychology I would suggest the works of Stanislav Grof.

Right on, but when Stanislav Grof's page was visited on wikipedia, the following quote popped out at me: "In the last few decades, it has become increasingly clear that humanity is facing a crisis of unprecedented proportions. Modern science has developed effective measures that could solve most of the urgent problems in today's world--combat the majority of diseases, eliminate hunger and poverty, reduce the amount of industrial waste, and replace destructive fossil fuels by renewable sources of clean energy. The problems that stand in the way are not of economical or technological nature. The deepest sources of the global crisis lie inside the human personality and reflect the level of consciousness evolution of our species."

His assessment of global problems is on the money, but the conclusion still smacked of the type of teleology which you criticize, probably rightly. Your conjecture about the latentcy potential might be correct, but then again scientists discount whole sections of our genetic code as superfluous or meaningless or unascertainable at present. With most of these ilk of people - e.g., David Wilcock - they are more for stimulation than unpacking reality; few, if any, of their ideas are personally endorsed. Nonetheless, the author recommendations from a fellow dark tower reader are appreciated and will probably be heeded soon. By the way, no love for Wizard and Glass?!? Elder, where are more of your kind, people who just want to expand consciousness and enjoy tripping and life with no strings attached? One has to search high and low for people not into drinking or surfeit sexual ambitions; the operative question might be why are these people attracted to me?

 

[Puffy]

It doesn't matter what you take, it won't fill that hole.

 

[shoeless]

It doesn't matter what you take, it won't fill that hole.

extremely true. which is why i personally think it's a stupid idea to take anything if you have a goddamn hole in the first place.

experiment when you're happy with your life and you won't regret it. it's not that bloody difficult, but sooooo many people just... do it wrong.

 

[Agent Intellect]

It doesn't matter what you take, it won't fill that hole.

Most indeedly.

In fact, sometimes it will create a hole that wasn't there to begin with.

 

[snafupants]

Most indeedly.

In fact, sometimes it will create a hole that wasn't there to begin with.

That is a valid point, but it seems more likely with some drugs versus others. Cocaine, heroin, alcohol, meth, uppers, downers, those drugs do not lead anywhere but down, especially when abused. Remembering the testimonials of some forum members, Adymus seems to have benefited from light MDMA use and ElderToadstool has successfully negotiated the land of acid, and continues to do so. The key is understanding yourself and the psychopharmacology before the trip.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I've found a good drug. L-Theanine, bupropion and rhythmic music (hip-hop, in my case). It's a strange sensation. Safe and legal, too.