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True Self

Pythia

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Is there something truly inherent to my self, or am I who I told myself I was?

It seems like most people here is familiar with using "masks" to hide their "true self", but is there really such a thing? What if there is nothing underneath the masks?




-Note: I did a quick research to see if the subject had been addressed before, and I found that though the subject of identity is common, the idea of a true self as the core of a person hasn't been questioned. If it has, then it confirms that I'm not good at researching.
 

pjoa09

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we morph according to our surroundings? I have noticed I talk out loud and boastfully when no one is around but I can't presume that is me either.

Chameleon doesn't actually have a color?
 

AlisaD

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I'd say, everything we do or say is a manifestation of our true-self.

If you think as one person and act as another in social situation, then I suppose your true self is to doubt that what you think or feel is good enough to be accepted by the people around you, or your true self is to doubt that the people around you are good enough to accept what you really think or feel.

We should not discard pretending as something we have been pushed into. It is a matter of choice, and often tells us more about who we really are then the thoughts we sometimes think are honest.
 

Jennywocky

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Is there something truly inherent to my self, or am I who I told myself I was?

It seems like most people here is familiar with using "masks" to hide their "true self", but is there really such a thing? What if there is nothing underneath the masks?

Yeah -- at times I've seen myself as an onion from which I am peeling layers... and wondering if there is actually anything at the center when I finally get there.

I'm not sure I'd see True Self as static per se, but I think there is a sense of "living in more congruence with self" vs "living in less congruence."

Not living in congruence sets up emotional friction and stress, eroding one's will, resolve, energy, talents, skills, abilities, and whatever else. You realize there's a lot of "noise" going on that is ruining your effectiveness as a person and satisfaction with life.

We also have "facets" or "hats" that we wear in different situations. They are not masks, they are part of who we are just as various facets are part of one jewel. We are just showing a different aspect of ourselves depending on context and cirucmstance. But to outsiders, it could look like incongruence if they are not careful in their judgment.
 

Cognisant

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Well aside from the whole "we're all robots" speech (do I have to do that again?) you can always see yourself as a duality between who and what you are, software and hardware respectively.

What you are is pretty simple, you're human, with human needs/desires, and you're a specific type of human (male/female/gay/bi/etc) which involves yet more specific needs/desires, we could even go further and try to figure out your psychological needs/desires by your Myer Briggs (or other) psychological type.

Who is you are is the software bit, it's your mind as it exists now as a result of everything you've experienced in your life thus-far having resulted in the various physical/psychic behaviours that you and others may find characteristic of you.

Now you could say your hardware (the "what") is inherent, but of course there's nothing stopping you from altering yourself physically in various ways, and I'm sure you'll agree that what you are isn't the complete basis of you, because you're more than just the human animal, you're a person with your own thoughts/opinions/dreams/concerns/etc.

In summary, although I personally don't believe in any sort of true inherent self, I will suggest that you neither deny what you are (your humanity) or where you've been (your past); everything else is a blank canvas for you to draw upon, be bold, be vibrant, be artistic :D
 

Da Blob

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Is there something truly inherent to my self, or am I who I told myself I was?

It seems like most people here is familiar with using "masks" to hide their "true self", but is there really such a thing? What if there is nothing underneath the masks?




-Note: I did a quick research to see if the subject had been addressed before, and I found that though the subject of identity is common, the idea of a true self as the core of a person hasn't been questioned. If it has, then it confirms that I'm not good at researching.

I believe in the Self, even though it is one of those things that is inaccessible to science, because it cannot be objectively observed or measured. Usually the concepts of Self and Identity are interwoven - problem is - is that one can have many identities, but only one self - Just as been mentioned one can assume many personae, but have only one personality.

Generally it is assumed that the two primary identities are the personal identity and the social identity. These identities are reflections of the Self. The personal identity is what one believes about one's Self, while in solitude. The social identity is what one is led to believe about one's Self by the interactions, actions, responses of other humans. Humans as mirrors of one another is a concept brought forth by C. H. Cooley and it is a useful concept. Unfortunately, every human is a warped mirror and no one presents an unbiased reflection of Self. One will note, that there are those who realize that their role in society is that of a mirror and they often become great manipulators of Others. They will not provide a honest reflection, but rather provide a flattering reflection, providing images one hopes to see or words one hopes to hear...

Human Selves come in various shapes and sizes. There may be an entire ecology of Selves (re: Perseus). At the foundation of personal Selfhood, is the assumptions about our family/community/society/species in general and our role in the universe.
This universal role, the list of things the universe expects from us as humans is translated into a social identity. One acquires a social identity by assuming the responsibility (or not) of meeting various and sundry expectations in different types of human relationships.

A social role can be defined as a list of expectations. In fact there are many facets of identity, personal and social, as well as Selfhood in general that can be linked to the concept of Expectation.

Of course, and again, personal pronouns are indicators of the "True Self" and I believe that I, Me, My, We, Us and Ours are symbols of deep-seated cognitive structures and the larger One's Self is, the more each of these pronouns represents...

EDIT: Afterthought. There are those who choose to ignore the existence of Higher Powers in the human universe. The problem is, for those, is that by maintaining that attitude they could be denying their own True Self, a Higher Self/Higher Power...(?)
 

Trebuchet

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We also have "facets" or "hats" that we wear in different situations. They are not masks, they are part of who we are just as various facets are part of one jewel. We are just showing a different aspect of ourselves depending on context and cirucmstance. But to outsiders, it could look like incongruence if they are not careful in their judgment.

This is how I see it, too. It is like dice: only one face is on top at any time, but the hidden sides are still part of the die. To take the metaphor further, I'm not convinced it is possible to show all of a person at once. I have my callous moments, and also my nurturing moments. They don't appear together.

A beautiful musical description of the feeling is the song "Persona" by Blue Man Group. The second verse describes trying to be real:

Every evening I take it off
But there's another one underneath
And I can't seem to find the bottom of the stack
I might just lose my mind, and never get it back

YouTube - Blue Man Group - Persona Live
 

Zensunni

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I spent years unpacking myself and after all the layers of society and family and relational were peeled away I found Self. There is a true you in there, you just have to separate it from what you think you should be and what others tell you is right. Humans are not infinitely malleable and there are types of people.

I find it odd that on an INTP site, a site that categorized and typifies people, that someone would ask if there is a Me inside of me. Odder still that some here would answer that question in the negative.
 

Jesse

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I don't think there is. You can not take away from the factors. We are all inherently trying to please someone and hence not trying to be true to selfs, but our actions inform ourselves. Our true selves is a combination of our surroundings, our interests, our mood and how we want to show the world. Image is everything, there is little underneath. That's just my take on it.
 

GYX_Kid

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there are apparent one-dimensional people. those who display the same often cliche behavior in their personal lives, among everyone they interact with, tend not to change/develop too much over time, etc. i don't believe that being considered shallow goes hand in hand with non-hypocrisy in a good way. i'll be 8-faced to a degree and spew benefits all over. character need not be focused on so much to create identity, and manifestations are way too often habitual....getting distracted from this train of thought

In summary, although I personally don't believe in any sort of true inherent self, I will suggest that you neither deny what you are (your humanity) or where you've been (your past); everything else is a blank canvas for you to draw upon, be bold, be vibrant, be artistic :D

ubermensch is a phat true self, yo
 

Vrecknidj

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Is there something truly inherent to my self, or am I who I told myself I was?
Nice paradox. Who is the one telling you who you are, if it isn't you? And, if it is you, then, "yes" there is a you. And if you are being told, then, "yes" there is a you.

:)

But, seriously, yes, there is something truly inherent to your self. The part of you that you usually refer to when you use the word "I" is your ego, but that is only a small part of the totality that you are.

Dave
 

snafupants

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Can the true self be some horrible, backstabbing, sycophantic person or does it have to be some idealized version of your current self, foibles scrapped and whatnot?
 

BigApplePi

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The self consists of a relatively stable center consisting of an outer shell of skin surrounding all sorts of inner gooey stuff going round and round plus some hard nodules. Most of that inner stuff we are not aware of, but if you have Si (Se?) you are more aware. This center for some reason tends to fool around with people and things outside itself. Since those things don't tend to hold still their affect on us is we can't stay still ourselves. We gotta move. Don't let this movation fool you. This is expected.

After a while these things and people have an effect on us slowly building us up into large awarenesses. This makes our self BIGGER. If you were to seriously continue this serious process you would seriously explode. So to avoid this catastrophe, we let loose some of our old ways. Say good-bye to the old stuff. You can't keep it. Just be aware of what has been built up.

If you find you are too small, try more things and people. If you find you are too full (full of it), get someone to kick your butt.
 

socialexpat

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There have been made numerous articles, books, researches about identity and identity crisis like symptoms.
People who tell you that they are who they are or never lie e.g. are not theirself already.
Everyone pulls few lies per day, no matter how little they are doesn't even matter if it is a white lie.. It is still lying and hiding your true self... that given to be the first example.
The second example is that everyone hides their true self .. It is also called having more than one face....
I have some stuff in a book about it Identities and how it works, i'd better get back to reading that stuff.

A little example for this topic:

Introduction



A POLICE OFFICER had just pulled over a car for a routine traffic stop. The officer strode confidently up to the car, hands on his hips, with a bravado swagger as if he were fully in control of the situation. He started to peer into the driver’s window. Suddenly, the man in the car pulled a gun and fired several shots. The officer fell to the ground, screaming and crying in a frenzied panic, “I’ve been shot! I’ve been shot! Call an ambulance! I’ve been shot!”

When the paramedics arrived, they discovered that the officer hadn’t even been wounded. All the shots had missed. The only observable damage was that this tough cop had wet his pants.

That’s how identity works. In one flash, all of the officer’s self-assured control left him, and he was reduced to the helplessness of a baby. Illusions of who we think we are—and claim to be—evaporate in a puff of smoke. And if we haven’t learned how to live from the place of a true identity, we will pay the price in trauma until we do learn how to live.





The

Problem



We all derive identity from the world around us. As infants, we are just a jumble of diverse biological processes over which we have no authority, and our first task in life is to develop a coherent personality which “pulls together” this fragmented confusion. Our first sense of coherence comes from our unconscious identifications with the persons around us. Then, as older children, we look around and see what the world shows us. Some things in the world appeal to us more than others; that’s because some things purport to show us something about what’s missing in our own lives and to offer us some knowledge of what seems to be hidden from us. So, from all the things that appeal to us in the world, we create images of how we want to see ourselves, and then we set about making ourselves “seen” in the world so our images can be reflected back to us through the desire of others.




Whether it’s purple hair and pierced lips or Armani business suits, an image is an image. It’s simply impossible to “opt out” of the social order. Even anarchy, in all its emptiness, is still a form of social identity, an artificially constructed image, a desire to be desired. Sure, the outward image tries to say, “I don’t care about what you think; in fact, I spit on your opinion of me,” but the psychological intent of the image is to make itself seen by others.




And some persons desire to be desired with such desperate intensity that you can literally see in their eyes the inner emptiness they seek to fill.

But they never can fill the void.

At best, their self-styled image is only a fraud, a feeble attempt to hide their pain from their own eyes. The gaping hole of their emotional wounds from childhood can be decorated with tattoos, it can be pierced with rings, or it can be draped with glitzy pieces of cloth—but no one can get rid of the truth by hiding it in plain view.

At worst, their self-styled image becomes their only reality, a pathetic lie and a living hell.

Don't forget that humans are often lying insects if not being above a certain level in society or certain IQ.
The lower you go on the social step, the worse it turns... Excluding the varmint and other human bags of meat that where gifted since the day they where born .. We refer to them as (serial) killers and fantasists and the rest residing in those social circles.
I'm sure many interrogators and cops are aware of that, since they often have to plow trough the shit of society.
 

BigApplePi

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A POLICE OFFICER had just pulled over a car for a routine traffic stop. The officer strode confidently up to the car, hands on his hips, with a bravado swagger as if he were fully in control of the situation. He started to peer into the driver’s window. Suddenly, the man in the car pulled a gun and fired several shots. The officer fell to the ground, screaming and crying in a frenzied panic, “I’ve been shot! I’ve been shot! Call an ambulance! I’ve been shot!”

When the paramedics arrived, they discovered that the officer hadn’t even been wounded. All the shots had missed. The only observable damage was that this tough cop had wet his pants.
We have many selves. The more integrated the better. The more one self knows the other, the better. This cop started with his "on the job" self. Everyone may have a helpless self. This is the self that reacts to an overpowering terrifying unpredictable force. We most likely don't know this self unless we are very thoughtful and experienced. That is what happened to this cop. If this had been his 3rd time with such an experience he may have been able to handle it.
 

Da Blob

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If anyone is actually interested in learning a bit about Self, might I recommend David Shaffer's Social and Personality Development. It is just an introductory textbook, that attempts to cover way too many topics, but it is a good place to start and it does have a good reference section for followup investigation.
 

socialexpat

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Hmmm thanks Da Blob.
We have had some conflict a few years BigApple .. Now it's in court and the officer that survived the raid admitted that he suffers trouble due to traumatisation.
I guess he has found himself to be a diffirent person (identity) .. It will come along but i think his biggest mistake is taking another job in his profession.. He'd better be strong and begin where it ended for him .. Eventually he will find himself again i'm sure.
Than again, not everyone can handle that i think.
 

BigApplePi

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Hmmm thanks Da Blob.
We have had some conflict a few years BigApple .. Now it's in court and the officer that survived the raid admitted that he suffers trouble due to traumatisation.
I guess he has found himself to be a diffirent person (identity) .. It will come along but i think his biggest mistake is taking another job in his profession.. He'd better be strong and begin where it ended for him .. Eventually he will find himself again i'm sure.
Than again, not everyone can handle that i think.
I'm reminded of the sometimes advise that if one falls off a horse to get right back on again. Sometimes these things will brake break you and sometimes one can build on them. Another one: "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" - Neitzche? <-- you spel it. I can't, lol.

If I get if stressed, I can dwell on the destructive side and that blows up on you. Nip it in the bud and it doesn't grow. Da Blob has written about this topic of stress.
 

socialexpat

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I'm reminded of the sometimes advise that if one falls off a horse to get right back on again. Sometimes these things will brake break you and sometimes one can build on them. Another one: "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" - Neitzche? <-- you spel it. I can't, lol.

If I get if stressed, I can dwell on the destructive side and that blows up on you. Nip it in the bud and it doesn't grow. Da Blob has written about this topic of stress.

Without googling.. It's Nietchze .. Look it up and if i'm mistaken, i owe you a beer someday, lol.

Yes, that's what they say .. After fear or trauma to face it again as soon as possible.

I agree with that proverb but i'm sure if your partner gets riddled with an AK-47, that some don't want to be strong at that moment .. Not an act of being shelfish (i'm sure that guy is though), i think it is rather a conscious and spontaneous respons to survive without chickening out... It's not that you are able to take out a few guys who carry arms that are bit more dangerous than a simple 9mm toy and also, those guys had a lot more to hide so they where willing to die for it that evening.

That's another odd thing about humans, without pre-determination some shut down in fear and some get furious, stop thinking and act in such a moment.. It's almost like two extreme sides among people who get stressed by fear.. I never found an answer to that.
 

BigApplePi

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Without googling.. It's Nietchze .. Look it up and if i'm mistaken, i owe you a beer someday, lol.
Not sure it's fair to take a beer from you. If it's anyone, it's Fred. If he were posting here, I'd say, "Freddie. Get yourself downtown and get your name changed. No sane person can spel your handle. You owe me a beer for my trouble with you."
That's another odd thing about humans, without pre-determination some shut down in fear and some get furious, stop thinking and act in such a moment.. It's almost like two extreme sides among people who get stressed by fear.. I never found an answer to that.
Let me take a try. It's a matter of observance. If the force seems overwhelming, it's fear. If conceit prevails, it's rage. If timing is the issue and one observes there is no time, thinking is overidden by hormones.
 
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