On quitting

[Rudolph Mondal]

I give up.

I want to quit life.

Well, maybe life later but university first.

And then I plan to just sit at home all day and think about my my ideas integrating math and philosophy.
However, parents won't let me quit. There's a storm raging in the house right now.

What do you guys have to say to that?

 

[EditorOne]

"Want" to quit is always a suspect position, with overtones of emotion.

Perhaps you should share why you "think" quitting university is the best thing right now.

 

[Minuend]

Of course your parents don't want you to quit. They don't want to pay for your ass while you sit in a chair all day.

If you want to work at mcdonalds, factory work etc, you could always start applying. Uni can wait for later if you change your mind, I guess.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

"Want" to quit is always a suspect position, with overtones of emotion.

Perhaps you should share why you "think" quitting university is the best thing right now.

I'd like to be studying philosophy or mathematics but instead I'm doing engineering.

I'm horrible at electricity and magnetism. Failed both tests this term. (but I did pretty well on classical mechanics last term)

I hate the students at my university. They have zero zest for learning and are only there to pass grades.

My professors are wonderful. At least the ones I speak to on a regular basis. But sometimes I fear that they find me irritating.

I don't want to work for some stupid company and make shit for them. I want to work on my ideas and develop my own framework for understanding reality.

By reality I don't mean "real life" .

However, I probably won't be quitting. I'm too much of a coward for that.

I really hate myself. But I haven't got the guts to kill myself, unfortunately.

 

[Teax]

what is your Major? (I mean the name of the branch at university... because it wasn't quite evident from your post and it would explain a lot)

 

[nanook]

Please don't quit. You are killing yourself spiritually if you avoid confrontation with your problems. Your problems have to do with your identity. The point is, you don't figure out who you are by quitting shit, because the true self can not be found hidden underneath distracting efforts. The true self has to be invented. But you have emotional conflicts that prevent you from realizing yourself as the inventor. As you say, you are a coward. Instead of inventing yourself, you want to define yourself through images that are irrelevant to your identity, such as your interests or ideals. You want to fall asleep in predefined roles, like a student is defined by teachers, like a reader is defined by the book, like a doctor is defined by protocol, like a monk is defined by scripture, like a robot is defined by programming. But since this general unconscious attitude of yours is eating your energy, is a representation of fear, you want to get rid of it also, you don't like any realistic attainable programming and dream of more exiting esoteric programming instead. This is delusional, because no programming can be exiting in the long run. You can't get through life by enslaving yourself to a subject. And the other kids at your age do better, because they face life as actors, as agents, as free willed experimenters. Instead of reducing themselves to the process of learning shit, they figure out who they truly are as humans. Then they will use whatever shit they have learned in school as a tool for who they are instead of using it as a cocoon to disappear inside. Do you think philosophy and math need you? No fucking way, you are not that one in a billion genius who revolutionizes a field of knowledge. You have to live for yourself and be a mundane individual like everybody else. But you are afraid. You would rather discard yourself than experience the anxiety and anger and all the other stuff, that comes with being yourself. You want to figure out what old scrip-neurotic believe systems are trapping you in that desire to abandon yourself, so can you develop a true feeling for what you want.

I call this speculative psychoanalysis. I think i'm good at it. Not sure if you are the person this is addressed at though.

 

[TheManBeyond]

finish what you started, even if you are unpassionate about it.
i believe when i can apply this to myself i will go further beyond.

 

[doncarlzone]

Never quit, never change your environment - just change your perception and reach stoic calmness... I say fuck that, change your environment if it doesn't implicate your future is completely ruined. Now clearly, it is not always possible to change your environment immediately and in that case you two options; get used to it or plan your escape. The amount of time already spent is always a part of any escape calculation, obviously.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

what is your Major? (I mean the name of the branch at university... because it wasn't quite evident from your post and it would explain a lot)

I haven't declared a major yet because we're only required to do so after next term. However my university does not offer math or philosophy or anything like that. It's purely a design and engineering school.

 

[TheManBeyond]

you have got a president name bro

 

[StevenM]

A metaphor to consider:

There was a plant growing in someone's garden. Every week, miracle grow was sprinkled around it to help feed it, and did it ever grow! The nutrients it needed was always available, never did it have to go without, and it grew green and thick.

In another part of the garden, grew another plant. The caretaker had neglected it, and at times, it did struggle for the nutrients it needed. Hence, the plant used all of it's energy to root itself deeper into the ground, the roots sprouting and branching in all directions. As it went deeper, it found the moisture and food that it needed, more than enough to replenish it's energy, and then some to eventually grow thick and green.

A massive heatwave brought on a drought, and for some unknown reason, the caretaker wasn't there to tend to her plants.

The first plant, which lucky enough to be given such an easy life such far, didn't have much of a root structure. It wasn't deep enough to access the moisture trapped deep in the earth, and it withered quickly.

The second plant, firmly footed, and with access to the deep foundation of water and food had better chances of weathering the drought.

Your struggles are actually your friend in disguise. It was the friend you were always looking for, and was always available for you, yet you often ran away.

A group of friends decided they were going to spend some time together and go bowling.

One person of the group, has never tried the game. It was his turn to pitch the ball. He holds the ball in his hand, he focuses, extends his arm, and throws. It lands in the gutter. He tried again, and the result is the same. Two more attempts, once he got lucky, but he is clearly not doing well.

"I suck at this game. I actually hate bowling. In fact, I'm never going to bowl again!" And he leaves the building. Unknownst to him at the time, he lost more than just a bowling game that night.

So you have a choice (at least, I hope you still have a choice). You can either:

A) Quit university early. Guaranteed, you got nothing out of it except shame and debt.

B) Continue university at the risk of failing. You could get lucky and actually graduate, but in the circumstance that you fail, I'm sure something will come out of it in the end, and people will know that at least you tried, and did your best.

C) Perhaps in your situation, there is an alternative. In the specific circumstances that you are in, there may be a solution that has better benefits for everyone involved.

As for killing yourself, you'd not realize the mistake you made before it's too late.

Because in that moment, as your life flashes before your eyes, you'll suddenly realize. You'll see how each event and situation in your life had purpose, intricately placed for the benefit of your growth.

And you'll see the things that would have come. Now, not perceiving regularly from the viewpoint on the continuum of time, but from outside of it, you'll find all the dreams you strived for were just merely waiting for you to grasp the opportunity. In this sense of time, they were always there, and yours to earn had you not have quit so soon. Now it is too late, the opportunity is taken away from you, never will you lay your eyes on these rewards again. It's a shame, you were always so close to them, they were just around the corner had you have only looked.

And the thing you despised the most all this time, yourself, you now fully see its face. You now see that what you thought was your weakness, the part you tried so hard to destroy in shame, is now the most beautiful thing ever given to you. It was that which had given you the insights for understanding the struggles of others, it gave you the will of compassion, it was your 'link' or direct connection to the other people in your life. You realize now that it never was trying to hinder you, it was actually the thing that supported you.

And that too, is now taken away from you. It shuts it's door on you, and it latches, never will it be opened, it has now turned it's back from you.

The worst psychic pain develops, an immense ache in a place you never knew could feel pain, and you finally comprehend the exact tally of all you had owned and taken for granted.

 

[Teax]

I haven't declared a major yet because we're only required to do so after next term. However my university does not offer math or philosophy or anything like that.

all engineers learn together untill a certain point? how peculiar

It's purely a design and engineering school.

engineers . what a bunch of geezers
your rant seemed very familliar. I dipped my toes into the whole engineering environment and had the exact same reaction to the whole thing.

don't get me wrong, engineering as an idea is a very sophisticated topic, with a lot of opportunity for abstraction and philosophical exploring. (at least IMO... well that's why I visited there in the first place)
that's not what real engineering is all about. The people there are stuck in the stone ages. looks like ST types are drawn to that field, the whole environment is just very anti-INTP; which you will only realize once you've experienced a friendly environment for yourself.

I don't want to work for some stupid company and make shit for them. I want to work on my ideas and develop my own framework for understanding reality.

CS (aka Informatics) is full of knowledge that helps you understand reality. It's technically a subfield of Math so I suppose same applies to Math. But hey I maay be slightly biased here

Please don't quit. You are killing yourself spiritually if you avoid confrontation with your problems. Your problems have to do with your identity. The point is, you don't figure out who you are by quitting shit, (..)

I completely disagree. I however agree with the rest nanook said, which is essentially an appeal for self-discovery and self-improvement. free yourself of other's expectations and al that jazz, which in turn supports my assertion: why try to run your head against a brick wall? why not try the door instead? You are "killing yourself spiritually" if you stay in a place that works against you, especially if you already know what you want. And changing Majors or even universities is not as hard as it sounds. Just fill out some paperwork and welcome to your new and improved life v2.0 (beta).

The knowledge that you already gained here will accompany you wherever you go. The word "quit" is so overloaded with emotional culturally conditioned shame-content that it's hard to see the very real benefit you gain as an individual. Call it a strategic retreat. Real men don't quit? Bullshit!

if you decide to stay then let it be your decision to do so, that should reduce the amount of misery

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

A metaphor to consider:

There was a plant growing in someone's garden. Every week, miracle grow was sprinkled around it to help feed it, and did it ever grow! The nutrients it needed was always available, never did it have to go without, and it grew green and thick.

In another part of the garden, grew another plant. The caretaker had neglected it, and at times, it did struggle for the nutrients it needed. Hence, the plant used all of it's energy to root itself deeper into the ground, the roots sprouting and branching in all directions. As it went deeper, it found the moisture and food that it needed, more than enough to replenish it's energy, and then some to eventually grow thick and green.

A massive heatwave brought on a drought, and for some unknown reason, the caretaker wasn't there to tend to her plants.

The first plant, which lucky enough to be given such an easy life such far, didn't have much of a root structure. It wasn't deep enough to access the moisture trapped deep in the earth, and it withered quickly.

The second plant, firmly footed, and with access to the deep foundation of water and food had better chances of weathering the drought.

Your struggles are actually your friend in disguise. It was the friend you were always looking for, and was always available for you, yet you often ran away.

A group of friends decided they were going to spend some time together and go bowling.

One person of the group, has never tried the game. It was his turn to pitch the ball. He holds the ball in his hand, he focuses, extends his arm, and throws. It lands in the gutter. He tried again, and the result is the same. Two more attempts, once he got lucky, but he is clearly not doing well.

"I suck at this game. I actually hate bowling. In fact, I'm never going to bowl again!" And he leaves the building. Unknownst to him at the time, he lost more than just a bowling game that night.

So you have a choice (at least, I hope you still have a choice). You can either:

A) Quit university early. Guaranteed, you got nothing out of it except shame and debt.

B) Continue university at the risk of failing. You could get lucky and actually graduate, but in the circumstance that you fail, I'm sure something will come out of it in the end, and people will know that at least you tried, and did your best.

C) Perhaps in your situation, there is an alternative. In the specific circumstances that you are in, there may be a solution that has better benefits for everyone involved.

As for killing yourself, you'd not realize the mistake you made before it's too late.

Because in that moment, as your life flashes before your eyes, you'll suddenly realize. You'll see how each event and situation in your life had purpose, intricately placed for the benefit of your growth.

And you'll see the things that would have come. Now, not perceiving regularly from the viewpoint on the continuum of time, but from outside of it, you'll find all the dreams you strived for were just merely waiting for you to grasp the opportunity. In this sense of time, they were always there, and yours to earn had you not have quit so soon. Now it is too late, the opportunity is taken away from you, never will you lay your eyes on these rewards again. It's a shame, you were always so close to them, they were just around the corner had you have only looked.

And the thing you despised the most all this time, yourself, you now fully see its face. You now see that what you thought was your weakness, the part you tried so hard to destroy in shame, is now the most beautiful thing ever given to you. It was that which had given you the insights for understanding the struggles of others, it gave you the will of compassion, it was your 'link' or direct connection to the other people in your life. You realize now that it never was trying to hinder you, it was actually the thing that supported you.

And that too, is now taken away from you. It shuts it's door on you, and it latches, never will it be opened, it has now turned it's back from you.

The worst psychic pain develops, an immense ache in a place you never knew could feel pain, and you finally comprehend the exact tally of all you had owned and taken for granted.

How do you know so much about how it's like just before you die?

 

[StevenM]

How do you know so much about how it's like just before you die?

My above post was written while experiencing some imbalances in the brain. It was how I was making sense of things while thinking of your situation, eventually, I purged it out on your thread, and into the open so it could be better scrutinized by myself and others. I admit, it's a very weird paradigm.

I actually have no idea what it is like before a person dies.

Basically, I elaborately wanted to explain that if under the circumstances of your parents paying for your university, and now there is no way of backing out and getting their money back, then in my opinion, the wisest choice is to make the most out of it. Or if there is a better solution (like switching classes), that would be good.

That is all under the assumption that otherwise, you'll quit university and sit in your room and think and brood.

Of course, if university never was your plans for this time, and the whole thing was kind of forced on you, you could think of finding a way to gain the skills to live independently.

There is probably a whole bunch of choices you can make, or consider. Who am I to say what is the best one?

What I really don't understand, is the hate that you have towards yourself. Sure, I'm quite critical of my self as well, and can understand that. I've made tons of bad decisions in my life that I'm not too proud of.

But aside from the mistakes that you've made, what is really there, down deep in yourself that you despise of so much? Is it really all that bad?

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

My above post was written while experiencing some imbalances in the brain. It was how I was making sense of things while thinking of your situation, eventually, I purged it out on your thread, and into the open so it could be better scrutinized by myself and others. I admit, it's a very weird paradigm.

I actually have no idea what it is like before a person dies.

Basically, I elaborately wanted to explain that if under the circumstances of your parents paying for your university, and now there is no way of backing out and getting their money back, then in my opinion, the wisest choice is to make the most out of it. Or if there is a better solution (like switching classes), that would be good.

That is all under the assumption that otherwise, you'll quit university and sit in your room and think and brood.

Of course, if university never was your plans for this time, and the whole thing was kind of forced on you, you could think of finding a way to gain the skills to live independently.

There is probably a whole bunch of choices you can make, or consider. Who am I to say what is the best one?

What I really don't understand, is the hate that you have towards yourself. Sure, I'm quite critical of my self as well, and can understand that. I've made tons of bad decisions in my life that I'm not too proud of.

But aside from the mistakes that you've made, what is really there, down deep in yourself that you despise of so much? Is it really all that bad?

Well, I can't do anything right. In school we're doing a project and basically my team has decided to leave me to my own devices for the most part because 1) I'm bad at everything I do and 2) I have no motivation to do anything.

I didn't submit my physics homework this week. Yesterday my parents sat with me for about two hours but I didn't do anything. I just sat there and listened to music.

I have no qualities, none at all. I enjoy math and philosophy and spend a lot of time on those subjects but I have no talent in the area.

So basically, there's nothing that I'm good at. Absolutely nothing.

My professors think I'm brilliant for some reason. At least my math and humanities professors do. I'm glad they think of me that way and hope they continue doing so. But I don't think I'm amount to anything in life because I can't...I just can't freaking cope with all this shit.

And then there are things I can't mention anywhere, to anyone.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

I don't know if this will help but the following is my blog address. I sometimes pour out my feelings there.

http://14552.blogspot.sg

 

[Reluctantly]

You could always get into drug dealing. I hear it's pretty lucrative and if you do it right, you can make bank for awhile; but then you gotta pay some of that money back to get out of it, you know before the cops catch you and you end up becoming someone's prison sex toy.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

You could always get into drug dealing. I hear it's pretty lucrative and if you do it right, you can make bank for awhile; but then you gotta pay some of that money back to get out of it, you know before the cops catch you and you end up becoming someone's prison sex toy.

No. I don't think you've understood the point I was trying to make in the opening post.

 

[Absurdity]

Nanook said it all, man.

 

[Reluctantly]

No. I don't think you've understood the point I was trying to make in the opening post.

Yeah, I know, you want to study math and philosophy. And university doesn't make you feel like you are part of a learning process, but instead have to get good grades, like you are being pushed to do things for someone's sake other than your own. Yeah, college is kind of stupid in that regard. Yeah, your position sucks; none of your options seem to be what you want or what you think is good for you. But Nanook is right that just quitting things means you avoid problems and situations that aren't what you exactly wanted; and then you're letting life destroy your soul. And the soulless are rather pathetic, don't you think?

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

Well, in the way you described it its not quitting. Give yourself all the time you can to think. Be a think tank. Fresh minds like yours are needed badly, today. Make sure to act on developing that philosophy of yours though.

The only thing I'd ever quit was living a life that wasn't true to my being, an inauthentic one if you will. Don't live for your parents, though you can be sure they love you and just want the best for you. Live for yourself, and the God who made us all. Its really the only life worth living.

Bet you didn't see that coming.

 

[Pyropyro]

Nanook said it all, man.

I second the motion.

You got to get out there and gain some real life experiences. Your perspective on things are quite idealistic in my opinion (normal for a young person BTW). I can tell you where you're wrong but I think its better that you find the answers by yourself. It's better for you anyways

 

[crippli]

don't get me wrong, engineering as an idea is a very sophisticated topic, with a lot of opportunity for abstraction and philosophical exploring. (at least IMO... well that's why I visited there in the first place)
that's not what real engineering is all about. The people there are stuck in the stone ages. looks like ST types are drawn to that field, the whole environment is just very anti-INTP; which you will only realize once you've experienced a friendly environment for yourself.

Well. Most all technical solutions today are conceived by engineers. So it is more accurate to say that without engineers we would still be in the stone-age. A technical theory, like Einsteins work on the Atomic Bomb, would be just that, theories. Only an engineer is able to discern what technical theories are valid and who are not, and make theories become real. I doubt there is any group of people who have a higher responsibility towards the directions human progress evolves.

It's safe to say, that an Einstein–Rosen bridge can not be made without engineers interested in the idea.

I'd rather put it like if the INTP is God, the Engineer is the power source God accesses to have her ideas made real.

An engineer is a professional practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics, and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical, societal and commercial problems. Engineers design materials, structures, and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost.[1][2] The word engineer is derived from the Latin roots ingeniare ("to contrive, devise") and ingenium ("cleverness").[3][4]

The work of engineers forms the link between scientific discoveries and their subsequent applications to human needs and quality of life.[1]

Rudolph-You may at least wish to finish one degree before you quit. Because to become that link between ideas and reality resources may be needed. Don't focus to much on sucky people and various job related aspects. The truth is that an engineering degree is, at least in their minds, unobtainable. So no matter what the situation, and if you got grades to pass. It is a paper that makes it challenging for people to tramp all over you. That in itself is worth the inconvenience with the socialization. From a group of 30 students, I'd be surprised if not at least one or two will be pleasant company, if one let them approach.

 

[Teax]

Well. Most all technical solutions today are conceived by engineers. So it is more accurate to say that without engineers we would still be in the stone-age. A technical theory, like Einsteins work on the Atomic Bomb, would be just that, theories. Only an engineer is able to discern what technical theories are valid and who are not, and make theories become real. I doubt there is any group of people who have a higher responsibility towards the directions human progress evolves.

It's safe to say, that an Einstein–Rosen bridge can not be made without engineers interested in the idea.

I'd rather put it like if the INTP is God, the Engineer is the power source God accesses to have her ideas made real.

that's what I meant by "don't get me wrong". I agree with you you are talking about the idea of engineering. but the actual learning environments and grading systems created by today's engineers in universities are counterproductive, oldschool(stone-age) and demotivating - from a strictly INTP point of view. That's why my suggestion was to switch Majors/university from engineering to something else. Things will go much more smoothly.

 

[EditorOne]

I've discovered that in my own life, it all boils down sometimes to "which set of problems would you rather deal with?" There's no ideal answer for a situation. You might be in a similar place, but here's the thing: It's pretty clear you know what's wrong with your situation right now, but what issues will you have to deal with if you choose Plan B, whatever that is?

It's one way to evaluate and analyze. Don't look for the perfect solution; instead, think through the consequences and problems of alternates.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Thank you guys for all your comments and help. I no longer feel the compulsion to quit. because I realize it'd be worthwhile to grit my teeth and just go through the damn thing.

Thank you.

 

[QuickTwist]

Don't quit. Engineering is my dream job.