My father may be ESFJ? This may correlate with how our compatibility is shit?

[Spectrum]

This possibility randomly popped in my head (as does every thought): Is my father an ESFJ?: 1-14:
1- Likes to boss me and my family around, and enjoys giving anyone orders. Loves for things to be planned out and organized. REALLY LOVES coaching kids and yelling at them while giving orders, and yet he is at an emotionally caring level with them.

2-Very religious, and likes the traditional lifestyle that his parents taught. He constantly shoves them in my face in a very emotional (anger) manner.

3-Criticizes my scepticism, eccentricity, and strict adherence to logic. He will also criticize anything I like that he does not understand. A great example is my love for extreme metal. He tells me that death/black/whatever metal is filled with christian-hating satan-worshippers and that I should listen to something else. I said (something along the lines of, because I don't remember these minuscule details) "So? there are great bands within this music and I will continue to listen to them." I gave examples of "non-heathen" bands and talked about their musical qualities logically. HE GOT PISSED

4-Hates that I'm extremely introverted, and that I start things without finishing them. He is always pressing his religious values (I'm NEVER telling him I'm an atheist) on me, and encouraging me to partake in social events.

5-Loves gossiping and ranting about others for hours. Only sees his side, and constantly uses short-sighted negative responses for those who do things he does not like.

6-When we argue, he attacks me with anger while I calmly apply logical and calm responses to every one of his group of statements. Tearing down his big picture is easy for me, and very natural. He instantly gets angry and punishes me on impulse. He constantly picks at petty details as well.

7-Takes it personally when I want to be alone and away from family and friends.

8-Dislikes my love for computers, and will tell me all about it.

9-Tells me I'm an asshole and that I'm cold-hearted.

10-When he is being nice to me, he is very emotionally-kind and upfront about it. I can't give the same response, without being extremely uncomfortable of course (I really don't like hugs).

11-After a huge emotional outburst he comes out with honesty about how he was wrong, and wants to talk about it. This is useless to me, because I know he will repeat the exact same mistake as he has done many times over. This consistency bugs me.

12-I ignore him or stay from him a lot, and this seems to bug him as well. I know our incompatibility means that we can't be around each other much without some useless argument.

13-He's very masculine, yet emotional.

14-I keep many of my views and thoughts from him in discussion (so that means I just agree with what he says a lot). This is because the few views I have presented to him ended up in him criticizing me or just getting angry.

There are other things, but I tried to keep the list short. If you want more info then just ask. My question is: Does it seem to you that my dad is ESFJ, or could he be something else? Are there any particular articles you know of, or any advice you could give me? It'd be nice if we could get along, but it seems that we can't. I accept him, he doesn't fully accept me.....

PS: Yes I've searched, and I have some info but I'd like your rational thoughts as well. I'm open to suggestions, and if you simply think it's impossible for us to truly get along then say so. I wouldn't doubt we'll never truly get along.

EDIT: Don't take this so seriously, Pants obviously did.

 

[Pants]

Don't analyze your father. Not only is it psychological incest, but it's gay psychological incest.

You're scapegoating a relatively esoteric system of personality classification to excuse your inability to get along with your father and to justify your own position.

Most kids would would just shout "I hate you!" then take the car anyways. My roommate shoved his dad down the stairs and broke his ribs. Human offspring were never meant to live at home past the age of sixteen, I say.

 

[Spectrum]

You're misunderstanding my intentions....

 

[Pants]

You're misunderstanding my intentions....

Then I apologise.

 

[TheHmmmm]

Don't analyze your father. Not only is it psychological incest, but it's gay psychological incest.

You're scapegoating a relatively esoteric system of personality classification to excuse your inability to get along with your father and to justify your own position.

Most kids would would just shout "I hate you!" then take the car anyways. My roommate shoved his dad down the stairs and broke his ribs. Human offspring were never meant to live at home past the age of sixteen, I say.

What Freudian hole did you crawl out of? I don't think I should have to explain how typology has nothing to do with sex.

The rest, however, is somewhat more believable. Yes, many people seek to type others to justify their relationship. However, IF he is this type, that would explain the friction between them. Just because it's true doesn't mean it's scapegoating.

 

[Pants]

What Freudian hole did you crawl out of? I don't think I should have to explain how typology has nothing to do with sex.

The rest, however, is somewhat more believable. Yes, many people seek to type others to justify their relationship. However, IF he is this type, that would explain the friction between them. Just because it's true doesn't mean it's scapegoating.

The Freudian reference was intentional. What I meant was that it's not always (never?) productive to think of someone that you're close to in terms of constructs that, as far as they're aware, don't even exist. It can lead to false assumptions, misunderstandings and academically instituted distance. I don't care how INTP you are, you've spent more time with your father than you have with MBTIs. Thinking of 'Daddy' in terms other than 'Daddy' will almost certainly pervert the parental relationship, no matter how stressed it may already be.

Edit: Didn't mean for that post to sound so touchy.

 

[Spectrum]

I'm merely speculating on the possibilities. I agree that dad is simply dad, but I'd like to understand how this all works. Quite frankly I rather us get along. Unlike many bad parental-child relationships I've observed, our friction is not due to some happening or set of happenings. Rather, it is our qualities that seem to cause a lot of friction. For example, he likes to "get things done" which results in unneeded actions that give him joy. Working for the sake of working is useless to me, but I accept that it is the opposite for him. When he tries to assert this quality on me is another way we don't get along. Of course I cause problems too, like applying cold logic to his fallacies when I get angry (when I simply should agree with him so we get along). We can't even have a decent convo, me = depth to convo and him = all small talk. He is disinterested in my speculative theories, and I'm disinterested in his small talk. I do try to improve on my side of this though, but I haven't noticed much improvement on his part (he typically deters from a deep conversation with more small talk as if it is some overload to him).

 

[Dormouse]

The Freudian reference was intentional. What I meant was that it's not always (never?) productive to think of someone that you're close to in terms of constructs that, as far as they're aware, don't even exist. It can lead to false assumptions, misunderstandings and academically instituted distance. I don't care how INTP you are, you've spent more time with your father than you have with MBTIs. Thinking of 'Daddy' in terms other than 'Daddy' will almost certainly pervert the parental relationship, no matter how stressed it may already be.

Edit: Didn't mean for that post to sound so touchy.

Hmm, I generally disagree with this, though it's possible I'm misinterpreting something.

Why shouldn't we think of our parents as something other than as a mother or father? I would think the key to acheiving a healthy relationship would be to respect them as equals, instead of confining them to their personna as somebody who's duty it is to protect you/somebody you're (possibly resentfully) indebted to.

I mean, their lives didn't begin as soon as they gave birth. They have histories, likes and dislikes, whole personalities. And what's wrong with trying to understand them for who they are, at least upon reaching a certain age?

I'd think that accepting they're more than just your parent would in fact be conducive to more harmonious interaction...

Actually, I can see more problems coming from adhering to a idealized version of parents. eg, Daddy is superman and can fix anything ---> only leads to disappointment.

Of course, strictly confining them to typeology/ using your personality types as an excuse for conflict is a bad thing, too.

I'd say just work towards mutual understanding and respect, as individuals.

 

[Pants]

I should apologize again for my unhelpfulness earlier. Your original post and my responses look different after a good day's sleep. I still think that in attempting to type your father you risk depersonalizing him such that genuine understanding becomes impossible and that you might also lose sight of accountability in the relationship, chalking up disagreements to simple incompatability. That said, considering traits of your father within a typological framework may help you to gain insights that would otherwise be relatively inaccessable.

Adolescent relationships with parents can be difficult. Yours with your father seems similar to that of my mother and I. We were close when I was young but as I got older I became more aware of what seemed a rather domineering and unreasonable personality. I resented the notions that I was indebted to her and that she had authority over me for simply having borne me (and with absolutely no input from me, the supposed benefactor of this service). Having never had to earn things like shelter and food, I took them for granted. I would often answer her orders with arguments that, no matter how reasonable, never seemed to be heard. Any attempt at interacting with her spiralled into fighting/dabating, depending on which of us you asked. I didn't fully understand the emotional consequences, which weighed most heavily on her, and she was enraged by my inability to respect her. The lack of respect, in turn, coloured my perception of her and her ideas/feelings such that I didn't care what she thought/felt. Eventually it wasn't a painful thing, in fact it seemed a moral duty, to disagree with her.

These problems were never solved while I was living with her, and I'm not sure how they could have been. Eventually I got thrown out of the house (I'm not sure either of us remember why) and I was only too willing to leave. I moved a couple hundred miles away and went more than a year without speaking to either parent. After that we suddenly got along quite well and now I look forward to spending time with family.

As Dormouse said, there is a progression in our relationships with our parents; eventually the caretaker role may even be reversed. It wasn't really possible, given the dynamics of authority within the relationship, for me to get along with my mother while I was living with her. When our interactions are voluntary and as equals, however, we are considerably more compatable. I didn't realize it five years ago but I am more like my parents, not in personality but in general outlook and values, than I am like anyone else. I've come to appreciate my mother's opinion and, in the context of a voluntary, egalitarian relationship, we can disagree without hating eachother. I've also come to appreciate and benefit from the fact that she knows a great deal, and has a great many strengths, that I don't.

While I'm not sure how much of this can readily benefit your current situation, I thought it might help to offer some perspective.

Edit: Rumour mongering small talk, it is a pain in the ass. I tend to avoid people that are overly interested in rumours but when I do get into one of these conversations I like to arrive at the comprise of providing commentary and attempting to steer our discourse ("Haha, well, I guess so-and-so does have a, uh, a curious face, and I suppose everyone has needs. Tell me, do you think the dog minds any of this?").

 

[Beat Mango]

Well I'll be the first to answer your question: yes, he sounds total ESFJ and yes, that correlates with the tension between you. Look my brother is ESFJ and he's been my best mate since forever. Recently though since living together, we've had all the same problems you've mentioned. Look your an INTP, you need to find a common interest/activity you can share with your dad. He'll like it because he'll be getting the real time interpersonal connection he needs, and you'll like it cos it's interesting.

To be fair though, he does sound like a judgemental prick and maybe you do need to just say f you, that's not good enough. Maybe.