Loss of Innocence

[TBerg]

When you tell someone to be good and ignore the dark side, they might not believe you. They will wonder if you are trying to pull the wool over their eyes and just tell them noble lies, but they will not know how profoundly mistaken they are. They will not know that with every transgression, their world will be irrevocably changed; that with every insight into the underpinning of evil, their own actions will be guided by that insight; and that sometimes they will never taste again the unadulterated nectar of the pure childhood.

 

[Grayman]

I like what you wrote. It is sad but true. Still, I would never trade my knowledge and understanding for ignorance so that I may be innocent once again. Perhaps that would change if my circumstances were different but there is always time for the ultimate bliss that lives behind the veil of death. Christians say that you will understand everything when that time comes but I am NOT certain I would hope that is true.

 

[TBerg]

That kind of sounds like life is a stupid reality show and some stupid jerk is going to debrief us afterwards.

Right now I just feel not very curious, and the OP is what I use to explain some of my lack of wonder. I also feel really dull-minded.

 

[Absurdity]

When you tell someone to be good and ignore the dark side, they might not believe you. They will wonder if you are trying to pull the wool over their eyes and just tell them noble lies, but they will not know how profoundly mistaken they are. They will not know that with every transgression, their world will be irrevocably changed; that with every insight into the underpinning of evil, their own actions will be guided by that insight; and that sometimes they will never taste again the unadulterated nectar of the pure childhood.

Sad poetry. Weirdly, I find a degree of comfort in it. Like surrendering to a current.

 

[AniOmega]

Feels like heroin. I used to feel pretty much always confused beyond a point, and distressed pretty much all the time, but beyond the not-saying-anything of indifference, the 3rd party validation by continued contact and opposition is alleviating. I'm gonna go shoot up heroin, and the people that know I am doing this are going to be fine with it, because they made it apparent that they simply do not give a fuck whether a friend of mine has naxolone or not.

Isn't it funny how smoking on top of aluminum gives you early arthritis, which is worse than someone else believeing in a relgion, but no one even cares? Haha, you guys are great.

So, the girl next to me is saying that I should say hi, to state my introduction, and to add that relief over innocence usually comes when someone has forgotten what it was they were psyche-ly fighting with themselves over.

Oh and she says it's wierd that the person above me thinks it's weird that he finds comfort in one of the more(er she didn't say this but I will-most), blatantly comforting thoughts to do with adulthood.
Weird squared I guess!

 

[Bock]

tl;dr: bagage sucks, life sucks, insight sucks because the human condition sucks

such deep

 

[TBerg]

tl;dr: bagage sucks, life sucks, insight sucks because the human condition sucks

such deep

It took more effort than your dismissive contempt.

 

[Absurdity]

Oh and she says it's wierd that the person above me thinks it's weird that he finds comfort in one of the more(er she didn't say this but I will-most), blatantly comforting thoughts to do with adulthood.
Weird squared I guess!

I find it weird that she finds it weird that I find it weird.

Weird ^ 3

Could you elaborate on the "blatantly comforting thoughts to do with adulthood" part? Having trouble understanding what you mean by that.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

i have a silly question; why do most people romanticize innocence?

 

[TBerg]

i have a silly question; why do most people romanticize innocence?

Because it allows you to find wonder in things perceived to be pure.

 

[QuickTwist]

I have a question TBerg. Do you believe your lack of innocence to be a natural or unnatural turn of events?

 

[nanook]

The first time i saw those fotos of Daniela Poggiali, the nurse who has killed so many old people in a hospital, those photos where she is in hand-cuffs and she has this red tight sweatshirt, i just had to fap like i hadn't fapped in a month. Maybe i had not.

Spoiler

So far i feel good on the dark side.

I lost a somewhat good friend that same day. That friend was also a cock blocking mom. Next to her i had to be a sunday school boy. She had to go.

I haven't been turned on by Daniela again. The angel has served her purpose for me and flew away.

What is innocence? I think i was taught that i was guilty long before i had a concept of what that means. I think Innocence is when you are just being yourself and you have no idea that someone with authority will attack you for it the very next moment, attack you so harshly that you have to fear for your life. They put the fear of god into you, as they say.

And in terms of how you perceive the world: the world appears innocent to you, before you insist that everyone could have done everything otherwise, if they only had had better intentions.

Sides exist as long as you judge yourself. The believe in guilt or judgment condemns people to remain identified with the condemned pattern. As long as there are sides, your side is the inside, the other side is not for you. Some parts of you are trapped in light, others are trapped in darkness.

 

[TBerg]

I have a question TBerg. Do you believe your lack of innocence to be a natural or unnatural turn of events?

I don't usually view reality in terms of what is "natural" or "unnatural." My life is way too big for that. But I would say that I always felt different in certain ways from other people, both in terms of gender and in terms of general interest. It might have been that people's denigration or praise of my speciality set the wheels in motion for me perceiving the world through the eyes of others and being alienated from myself. As family relations got worse, with my parents more and more belying their left-liberal conceits and belying the substance of their love between each other, it provided the primary content with which to critique society at large. I used to believe myself to be a suffering messiah of some sort, probably for these reasons.

Besides this, I don't remember being touched by many personal stories of hardship. This lack of compassion could relate to what I said in the last paragraph or it could be inborn. Pictures of the Holocaust, for example, didn't really arouse my compassion but more the sense that that could happen to me, too, in certain circumstances. At any rate, my personal prejudice is to leave people alone, unless my inaction or action would change the meaning of a relationship I have established, and it has to be a really established relationship. I can establish a rapport quickly with some people, though. Kind of like a personal confidence one-night stand or series of hookups...purely just to listen to people's problems.

I just wish I could see a mature individual inside me that wasn't fading into oblivion. Every step of maturation comes at the price of part of my soul, it seems.

 

[nanook]

you know what i am loosing? my naivety.

perhaps this is some sort of Te analogy to whatever Fe disenchantment irks the intp.

to me, naivety is when I think that something positive could come from sharing my sorrows with other people. the alternative is "realizing" that I have to be all alone and I can give random things to people or even receive something random things from them, but never ask for something or get what I really need and whatever problem I can't figure out on my own will only become more confused, if i try to share it. people who try to help me, will make me loose myself and unconsciously enslave me to motives of their extroverted ideology. i have dropped from the face of the earth more than 10 years ago.

so what i am loosing is basically a belief in the capabilities that are featured by the human condition.

can this logical conflict between the burden of authentic action (Fi) and utilitarian strategical opportunities (Te) translated, as an analogy, into the dimension of authentic tactics (Ti) and whatever Fe is?

a loss of the belief in the possibility, that your actions can serve the enthusiasm/'morale' of others more than yourself or at least just as much perhaps? the idea that everyone should be a savior of the moral of everyone else? that we could all be joined in enthusiasm? would this be the requirement for what the naive intp's Fe shadow considers to be good action, as opposed to evil action? and when you give up on trying to force your Ti to be the servant of such naive Fe ideals, you can do everything, but have difficulty finding orientation and purpose?

 

[Jennywocky]

When you tell someone to be good and ignore the dark side, they might not believe you. They will wonder if you are trying to pull the wool over their eyes and just tell them noble lies, but they will not know how profoundly mistaken they are. They will not know that with every transgression, their world will be irrevocably changed; that with every insight into the underpinning of evil, their own actions will be guided by that insight; and that sometimes they will never taste again the unadulterated nectar of the pure childhood.

There was nectar?

i missed it. again.

 

[TBerg]

There was nectar?

i missed it. again.

Sorry brah. I guess I drank the last one. You still have to do the pledges, though.

 

[Absurdity]

you know what i am loosing? my naivety.

perhaps this is some sort of Te analogy to whatever Fe disenchantment irks the intp.

to me, naivety is when I think that something positive could come from sharing my sorrows with other people. the alternative is "realizing" that I have to be all alone and I can give random things to people or even receive something random things from them, but never ask for something or get what I really need and whatever problem I can't figure out on my own will only become more confused, if i try to share it. people who try to help me, will make me loose myself and unconsciously enslave me to motives of their extroverted ideology. i have dropped from the face of the earth more than 10 years ago.

God damn, man. Spot on.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

Because it allows you to find wonder in things perceived to be pure.

but isnt the curiousity/wonder a quality we retain as INTPs?

 

[TBerg]

God damn, man. Spot on.

Having a FiTe party in my room? Get out, you guys!

 

[Sockrates]

When you tell someone to be good and ignore the dark side, they might not believe you. They will wonder if you are trying to pull the wool over their eyes and just tell them noble lies, but they will not know how profoundly mistaken they are. They will not know that with every transgression, their world will be irrevocably changed; that with every insight into the underpinning of evil, their own actions will be guided by that insight; and that sometimes they will never taste again the unadulterated nectar of the pure childhood.

Good thing I don't tell anyone that. Haven't you any integrity to tell people the truth and not the fluff? That's a cute piece you wrote though.

Ignorance is bliss, but I choose information over ignorance any/all day.

 

[Pyropyro]

For me:
Innocence is the assumption that everything is right in the world and that I don't need to do anything about it.
Loss of innocence is the realization there are a lot of wrong things in the world but I can do something about it.

 

[Bock]

It took more effort than your dismissive contempt.

You're idolizing innocence. What is the essence of innocence? Lack of experience? Due to the nature of the human condition and the basis for our being and the world around us - bad shit will inevitably pile up and color your existence/your perception of it.

Children experience little to no pressure (at least in the west...) and live in the moment because of undeveloped long-term memory etc, nothing "pure" about it.

 

[QuickTwist]

I don't usually view reality in terms of what is "natural" or "unnatural." My life is way too big for that. But I would say that I always felt different in certain ways from other people, both in terms of gender and in terms of general interest. It might have been that people's denigration or praise of my speciality set the wheels in motion for me perceiving the world through the eyes of others and being alienated from myself. As family relations got worse, with my parents more and more belying their left-liberal conceits and belying the substance of their love between each other, it provided the primary content with which to critique society at large. I used to believe myself to be a suffering messiah of some sort, probably for these reasons.

Besides this, I don't remember being touched by many personal stories of hardship. This lack of compassion could relate to what I said in the last paragraph or it could be inborn. Pictures of the Holocaust, for example, didn't really arouse my compassion but more the sense that that could happen to me, too, in certain circumstances. At any rate, my personal prejudice is to leave people alone, unless my inaction or action would change the meaning of a relationship I have established, and it has to be a really established relationship. I can establish a rapport quickly with some people, though. Kind of like a personal confidence one-night stand or series of hookups...purely just to listen to people's problems.

I just wish I could see a mature individual inside me that wasn't fading into oblivion. Every step of maturation comes at the price of part of my soul, it seems.

Thank you for replying. It may be useful to me later on in life.

For me:
Innocence is the assumption that everything is right in the world and that I don't need to do anything about it.
Loss of innocence is the realization there are a lot of wrong things in the world but I can do something about it.

That is kinda weird because its kinda the opposite for me. I use to have grand dreams... that I could do what I set my mind to and that I could be happy if I finally picked a direction to go and controlled my destiny. Then as loss of innocence comes and starts killing myself inside I begin to loose hope that I can do anything worth doing. Eventually this begins to spiral out of control until I am just a passenger in this cruel joke which is life, where I cannot really change anything and I actually have no choice in what I do.

 

[Pyropyro]

That is kinda weird because its kinda the opposite for me. I use to have grand dreams... that I could do what I set my mind to and that I could be happy if I finally picked a direction to go and controlled my destiny. Then as loss of innocence comes and starts killing myself inside I begin to loose hope that I can do anything worth doing. Eventually this begins to spiral out of control until I am just a passenger in this cruel joke which is life, where I cannot really change anything and I actually have no choice in what I do.

You're giving yourself too little credit. You can still change your life (At the cost of some things that you hold dear). However, it will take a lot of effort and pain before you do see some changes in your life.