Logic inconsistency paradox - INTP

[cotovios]

Does any of you feel like theres a logic inconsistency going on with your minds that you can't explain? For example a very personal example Im dealing with: My logic dictates that I should plan every step I take, I should plan the activities Im going to do, every day, so I don't lose track and keep being "productive" or atleast efficient.

Although it seems obvious to me that this is the best (most logical) path I should take, after MANY MANY tries at this, I find that it's nearly impossible for me to follow the plan due to my logic inconsistency because today I feel like this, tomorrow I feel different, then the next day I feel like this again.

I also don't think it's wise to disregard emotion and intuition as Im the creative type, its one of the values I have that I care about the most, my creativity and my intuitive judgement and problem solving.

I'm not sure but this seems like a paradoxical dilemma. I wonder if anyone else feels this way because if you do, I'd LOVE to have a conversation with you. Specially if you know a way around because I can't seem to find that way, I keep falling into the "most logical" aproach which is quite simple...

Thanks,
Cesar

PS: First time on this forum

 

[Cipher]

I can relate a lot. I've been struggling to be as efficient and productive as possible for years. And I've kept failing all the time.

One thing you need to realize is that ignoring your emotions and mental states is in fact irrational. Exterior efficiency requires using and handling your own mental states efficiently.
I suspect that you, like me, may have experienced Ego Depletion a lot, for example.

I might have found a solution a few days ago, but I'm not sure yet whether or not my current state is stable.

Also, welcome.

 

[Tannhauser]

I think I know what you mean. We do indeed want to be driven by intuition and emotion a lot of the time. I was thinking about this lately, as i have been on a tear the last 4 months, working close to 100 hours a week, doing math/programming/research stuff. From that vantage point, all the talk about "being productive" seems very ridiculous, because that kind of focus is only a result of hormones, chemicals in the brain (and some caffeine). On the other hand, one cannot always rely on this sort of organic inspiration. For me, this period came after a prolonged period cold hard self-discipline, where every step seemed forced and uninspired. But that is sort of when you sow the seeds, ya know. In order to form new habits, you have to go against your own impulses.

 

[Turnevies]

You have kind of proven by contradiction that a model of productivity without taking account your mood cannot lead to a description that is accurate enough.

->Solution: improve the theory by adding a (stochastic) emotions term to the productivity equation

 

[cotovios]

I don't know how to do that tbh, I don't know how to identify my emotions objectively like that to implement it...

 

[Seteleechete]

You have kind of proven by contradiction that a model of productivity without taking account your mood cannot lead to a description that is accurate enough.

->Solution: improve the theory by adding a (stochastic) emotions term to the productivity equation

This, it doesn't help me being more productive(for unrelated reasons) but it removes the reasoning problem by acknowledging and taking emotional factors into account when formulating conclusions. It can at times lead to a dilemma when it comes to choices, as you end up with two, one being optimal from a objective stand point and one being preferable from an emotional.

For me at least it can lead to long internal debates about which choice to pick and how much I value each choice. Sometimes the emotional choice can be overpowered by continues use of logic others one can decide to allow for ones emotional state to make a choice because the contentment is a objective reward in itself and sometimes a compromise can be reached.

 

[Cipher]

For me, this period came after a prolonged period cold hard self-discipline, where every step seemed forced and uninspired. But that is sort of when you sow the seeds, ya know. In order to form new habits, you have to go against your own impulses.

a) How long did this seeding phase take you?
b) Are you currently working on your own or are you part of an organization?
c) Do you consider yourself emotionally stable?
d) What do you think about the theory of Ego Depletion? Any experiences?
e) Do/did you use any other strategies to keep your mind focused or does it just work out?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated. I've been trying to make sense of my own motivational/volitional processes for a few weeks now and another dataset would be useful.

 

[Tannhauser]

a) How long did this seeding phase take you?
b) Are you currently working on your own or are you part of an organization?
c) Do you consider yourself emotionally stable?
d) What do you think about the theory of Ego Depletion? Any experiences?
e) Do/did you use any other strategies to keep your mind focused or does it just work out?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated. I've been trying to make sense of my own motivational/volitional processes for a few weeks now and another dataset would be useful.

Good questions.
a) I'd say it was a gradual process a couple of years in the making. Although the last months have been extreme, it has definitely been an incremental development.
b) I'm working in a small startup company. And I have to say that certainly helps. You do want to feel that you are doing some project that is meaningful to you. That certainly becomes vastly easier when 1) you do stuff you massively enjoy and which is aligned with your passions and interests and 2) you know that your work will matter and will be scrutinized by other people and the world in general.
c) I am human, but not too human
d) It's the first time I hear about it, and I have to say my philosophy all along has been the opposite: you don't really deplete willpower, you make it gain momentum. That's pretty much how it always worked for me.
e) It is in general easier to sustain focus, as mentioned, when you have your own drives and your whole physiological apparatus working for you. It is a very important aspect of this whole thing though. I have been dealing with some pretty fucked-up personal situations as well during these last months, and it is very clear to me that it is absolutely essential to aggressively weed out unnecessary drama in your life (that sometimes entails breaking contact with certain people), and make sure that mental balance is a priority at any point in time. I hear people have some success doing meditation and stuff. I suspect it is very useful, although I haven't tried it myself. I mostly rely on stoic principles.

 

[Cipher]

Thank you. This provides some inspiration and further confirms some of the theories I'm basing my current strategies on (e.g. reducing psychological strain by focusing on intrinsic motivators).
Seems like I was right in avoiding some overly stressful tasks to keep my "momentum" in the long run, too.

 

[PaulMaster]

Our motivations are not organically aligned with the motivations of society.

Neither is wrong, but they are barely compatible with one another.

I say fuck society (sort of). Find the true you - who you really are, what you really want - and go with that. Find out where in the world the true you fits and go there, literally or figuratively. Molding yourself to fit into something is like stealing from yourself.

 

[scorpiomover]

Does any of you feel like theres a logic inconsistency going on with your minds that you can't explain? For example a very personal example Im dealing with: My logic dictates that I should plan every step I take, I should plan the activities Im going to do, every day, so I don't lose track and keep being "productive" or atleast efficient.

Although it seems obvious to me that this is the best (most logical) path I should take, after MANY MANY tries at this, I find that it's nearly impossible for me to follow the plan due to my logic inconsistency because today I feel like this, tomorrow I feel different, then the next day I feel like this again.

Sure. Have this all the time. No-one is perfect. Some inconsistencies are bound to result. A constant desire to maintain perfect consistency highlights the inconsistencies. It's like having an inner ISTJ that keeps pointing out when you've "missed a bit", even though you have 99% of it right.

I also don't think it's wise to disregard emotion and intuition as Im the creative type, its one of the values I have that I care about the most, my creativity and my intuitive judgement and problem solving.

I'm not sure but this seems like a paradoxical dilemma. I wonder if anyone else feels this way because if you do, I'd LOVE to have a conversation with you. Specially if you know a way around because I can't seem to find that way, I keep falling into the "most logical" aproach which is quite simple...

Use Ne to observe patterns in your behaviour. Those patterns don't have to be rational. Try to tweak the system to improve SLIGHTLY using what you've learned from those patterns.

Don't expect to instantly solve the problem, as the reason you see the problems so acutely, is because of the intensity of your analysis and expectations, not the actual results. So give yourself a break, and remember to also use Ne to compare your performance and results with others in the same situation. When you do, you'll see that you're doing well already, and are just trying to aim for perfection. Perfection is a ROAD, not a destination. It's a goal to improve, not to achieve.

 

[Urakro]

My beliefs and theories change all the time as well.

We get limited information at any one point of time, which leads to many questions.
The questions are tempered with the reasoning made from what we have observed and learned at that point. Gaining more information changes the results of our rationale.

We could use sound reasoning techniques to make a good guess, such as extrapolating a pattern or using a method of deduction. Even if the method is commonly considered to be the most reasonable way to approach the problem, it still doesn't necessarily mean the answer in that case will be correct. Also, if a person committed a fallacy of thought and erred in the method of building their assumption, they could still come to a basically correct answer by luck.

So for the questions that can't be evidently answered, there may a flux between opposing viewpoints as more information flows in. The only way to stay 100% consistent is to have all the information to begin with, or completely halt the flow of new information.


EDIT: Just a thought, but it seems you've made a hypothesis that your productivity issues are the result of not being organised and having a good plan. But if you took the steps in making an organised plan, and it still didn't solve the productivity dilemma, then maybe there is something else that is causing it.

For instance, in my case I'm only unproductive in environments with a lot of distractions,

 

[IncohateINTP]

I believe you're barking up the wrong tree. Your logic is most likely perfectly fine. The mistake you made is assuming that your logic necessarily dictates your behavior. Here is an interesting article about the separation of assessment (or planning, thinking, etc...) and locomotion (or action....)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...vation-and-procrastination-just-keep-swimming

The best laid plans of mice and men....

Now, if you want to work on your perseverance with regard to implementing plans, check out
One Small Step Can Change Your Life: The Kaizen Way, by Robert Maurer.