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IxTP and IxFJ compatibility

deadpixel

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I would love to hear different perspectives about advantages and disadvantages of this combination,all input is welcome whether you can relate from personal experience, or if its just from your understanding of the different functions. Thanks :)
 

Ex-User (9062)

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I will leave this to the expert typologists.
From my limited perspective, i would argue that there is a fundamentally perceptional, and as a consequence of this, fundamentally different interpretational and interactive approach to the world at play, which may lead to a lot of misunderstandings.
But it can also lead to a supplemental approach at interpreting the world.
It depends on the persons involved and how they are interacting with each other.
 

Jennywocky

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Yeah, both types perceive, interpret, and prioritize differently -- although in the MBTI world at least, they share at least the Ti/Fe pair. Whether that tears them apart or becomes a bridge to understand each other is up to the people involved.

I was married to an ISFJ for 21 years. For the first 7-10, it left us at odds with each other; after that point, we both stopped being so stubborn and finally grasped and respected where each other was coming from, and we worked together much better. It also changed both of us -- I'm a lot different now (and have some SiFe burned into me) than I did before we married and vice versa.
 

Architect

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That's four different combinations, you'd need to to narrow it down, unless you mean x stands for the same variable in both types.

In long term compatibility you most often see people match on the first two letters and differ on the last two. So by that I's say INTP-INFJ and ISTP-ISFJ are the best compatible couples and ISTP-INFJ and INTP-ISFJ are the least compatible.

That's the theory, in my experience it's spot on. In fact I'm (INTP) married to an INFJ and my brother (ISTP) is married to an ISFJ. I guarantee that an INFJ would be not very compatible with an ISTP and an ISFJ would drive me bats.
 

Auburn

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Is that you in your avatar?
 

deadpixel

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I will leave this to the expert typologists.
From my limited perspective, i would argue that there is a fundamentally perceptional, and as a consequence of this, fundamentally different interpretational and interactive approach to the world at play, which may lead to a lot of misunderstandings.
But it can also lead to a supplemental approach at interpreting the world.
It depends on the persons involved and how they are interacting with each other.
I agree with everything here, ISFJ intereperits ideas based on the way that they feel about certain things, all of the FACTS involved about the things that they feel a certain way about are of little importance. All that matters is that in their minds, these things are either associated with good or bad and that is all they need to know. Why bother with the details? just stay away from it because its bad, or just get involved because its good. The facts pertaining to a certain idea or thing are much greater than the way someone feels about a certain idea or thing, without all of the facts you completely miss the big picture and lots of opporitunities. To form an opinion on something just because of the way you feel about it is a very judgemental/ignorant tendancy, which are two things I think go hand in hand.

Facts are whats most important, depending on the combination of facts that are being used or not used in the idea, it can lead to GOOD things or BAD things, not JUST bad things. It can be frustrating to get shafted when your ideas get shot down just because someone feels a certain way about it when they dont even know any of the facts, all the while their idea of what they feel about a certain thing is completely irrelavent to your idea because what they are feeling about something is completely different than what you are thinking/intending. And if only they would listen to the facts then they could see how it completely is going against what they are feeling. A lot of times they aren't wrong, but many times they are and I think its because they hold their morals, values, and opinions in such high regard that they dont like to be told otherwise. Heh, which is kind of ironic because INTP's are the same way but reversed with facts, logic, and rationality. However, INTP's WILL listen IF what is being said holds truth to it, because it furthers our understanding. At least I do.

MBTI is such a great tool if you can get the other person interested and on board, its helped us a great deal and I can honestly say that this is the happiest I've ever been. By understanding the way that her mind works its helped me more than anything, some of the ways that she operates I have started to learn how to use. Same goes for her, she makes an effort to be more reasonable and logical. We both do enjoy the new ways in which we look at things, which is with an open mind, Granted there is still work to be done.

I've actually been to these sites before, still read the articles again anyway just to refresh my memory. Any link you send me pertaining to the OP, ive probably already read lol.

Yeah, both types perceive, interpret, and prioritize differently -- although in the MBTI world at least, they share at least the Ti/Fe pair. Whether that tears them apart or becomes a bridge to understand each other is up to the people involved.

I was married to an ISFJ for 21 years. For the first 7-10, it left us at odds with each other; after that point, we both stopped being so stubborn and finally grasped and respected where each other was coming from, and we worked together much better. It also changed both of us -- I'm a lot different now (and have some SiFe burned into me) than I did before we married and vice versa.
Refer to my response to salmoneus, my situation sounds very similiar to yours. I will also say that I've changed.... a lot now that I think about it, one change of which is that im a lot more organised now.

Who had enough of who if you dont mind me asking, or was it mutual? If I had to guess I would say it was you bc ISFJ's seem to be able to tolerate a lot.

That's four different combinations, you'd need to to narrow it down, unless you mean x stands for the same variable in both types.

In long term compatibility you most often see people match on the first two letters and differ on the last two. So by that I's say INTP-INFJ and ISTP-ISFJ are the best compatible couples and ISTP-INFJ and INTP-ISFJ are the least compatible.

That's the theory, in my experience it's spot on. In fact I'm (INTP) married to an INFJ and my brother (ISTP) is married to an ISFJ. I guarantee that an INFJ would be not very compatible with an ISTP and an ISFJ would drive me bats.
Yes the x was meant to be a variable, im almost 80% sure im an INTP. I use both S and N functions in tandem as hard as it is for some people to believe. And the ISFJ seems to have INFJ tendancies also, so I was hoping to see some responses to all of the variables to see if I can find any kind of pattern and which have the most relevancy. I think red myst would have a pretty good idea of what I might be, yeah I just realized today that red myst is my father lol, hes never really given me a straight answer though and I think it may be because even he finds the whole N/S function to be rather confusing to distinguish between one another, and he studies MBTI quite a lot.

Is that you in your avatar?
As long as I dont get another lecture about how im not an INTP because I dont look like an INTP lol.
 

WALKYRIA

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As long as I dont get another lecture about how im not an INTP because I dont look like an INTP lol.
I can seriously say why you probaly not a real INTP... INTP don't allow strangers to see their faces easily; why would a type considered as the most private, mysterious and etheral go on the internet and break privacy with showing their real life faces ?
So yeah, ISTP rather; since sensors don't cultivate the sense of mystery so much as intuitives do.
I suspect that INTPs have a conflictual relationship with their faces and bodies( thus their physical environment with their bodies being part of it !) - I did and for instance I considered myself a long time body-less and ethereal ... And that's partly why I hate pictures and hate to be seen in pictures where my face doesn't look perfect and inspirational(sometimes I don't ven recognize my face as mine !) ... U seem to be very ok with ya face and don't seem to be bothered by the very paranoid and certainly surrealistic fact perhaps that one could recognize you and secretly read about your personal life and retain some infos( it seems to have never occurred to you !) !

:D:D:D:D:angel::elephant:
 

deadpixel

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I can seriously say why you probaly not a real INTP... INTP don't allow strangers to see their faces easily; why would a type considered as the most private, mysterious and etheral go on the internet and break privacy with showing their real life faces ?
So yeah, ISTP rather; since sensors don't cultivate the sense of mystery so much as intuitives do.
I suspect that INTPs have a conflictual relationship with their faces and bodies( thus their physical environment with their bodies being part of it !) - I did and for instance I considered myself a long time body-less and ethereal ... And that's partly why I hate pictures and hate to be seen in pictures where my face doesn't look perfect and inspirational(sometimes I don't ven recognize my face as mine !) ... U seem to be very ok with ya face and don't seem to be bothered by the very paranoid and certainly surrealistic fact perhaps that one could recognize you and secretly read about your personal life and retain some infos( it seems to have never occurred to you !) !

:D:D:D:D:angel::elephant:

INTP don't allow strangers to see their faces easily; why would a type considered as the most private, mysterious and etheral go on the internet and break privacy with showing their real life faces ?
My gf was playing with her dads new tablet, she wanted to play with the camera on it, took a picture with her at her request even though I wasnt really in the mood to. Then she suggested that I make it my avatar on "that site im always on", I knew she would appreciate it if I actually did it. When I was a kid I used to like pictures, now they just kind of give me anxiety and I dont like taking them at all.

I suspect that INTPs have a conflictual relationship with their faces and bodies( thus their physical environment with their bodies being part of it !) - I did and for instance I considered myself a long time body-less and ethereal ... And that's partly why I hate pictures and hate to be seen in pictures where my face doesn't look perfect and inspirational
So let me get this straight, unless you hate your body then you are probably not an INTP?

Dont get me wrong, Im not in love with my body but at the same time I dont have a conflictual relationship or dislike it in any kind of way. I do believe that the conciousness and physical body are two seperate entities ...truly. I do believe that our bodies are just biological machines, and our conciousness is something far greater than the physical body. What mysteries lie behind the concious, what its purpose is, where it comes from, where it goes, what is behind it all, is far more important than the biological machines that were given to us to use to control them. Something far too deep for us to have the capacity to understand in this life, whatever this even is.
U seem to be very ok with ya face and don't seem to be bothered by the very paranoid and certainly surrealistic fact perhaps that one could recognize you and secretly read about your personal life and retain some infos( it seems to have never occurred to you !) !
Not everyone has something to hide, regardless, I am a very private person. Thats why I dont have a facebook,twitter,instagram or whatever else is out there, I dont even have a phone because I dont like talking, and because its nice to have one less bill to worry about :)

Im curious to know though, how does someone who has accepted their physical being make them counter intuitive?

Also you mentioned that you only like pictures if you look good in them, wouldnt that be considered an S trait? I would think an N would be less likely to give a shit about what they look like.

Everyone uses S, its nothing to be ashamed of, the more balanced your functions are, the better. Just because someone falls into the N category doesnt mean that they dont like to use S from time to time, and just because someone falls into the S category doesnt mean that intuitive lightbulbs dont go off in their heads from time to time. Granted, the more S or N you are this is less likely to happen, but the balanced person has the upper hand.

Not all personality types are exactly the same in respect to their specific type, every type comes in all kinds of different shapes and colors and sizes.

In all due respect though, please lets stay on topic.
 

WALKYRIA

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Not everyone has something to hide..

I don't have anything to hide neither... But still I'm reluctant to post my face or private infos on the net; Maybe it's because I'm not completely happy with my current life and myself ( matter of self acceptance? ) or maybe I don't want anybody to find out who I am in real life; It would be a shame if a real life friend came to realize I spend majority of my freetime on weird fora... :confused:

For the face thing... It's crazy but it seems to be common in INTPs to have that sort of conflictual relationship with their body/face? What are you supposed to say when a girl thinks you'r hot and you'r like "hot? wha's that? like coffee hot? me? u sure? maybay who knows !".
I never really accepted or dealt really good with the characteristics of my body...those same characteristics that society thinks is important so that might explain quite a bit.


So let me get this straight, unless you hate your body then you are probably not an INTP?
I don't hate my body; I just don't pay too much attention to it. I see my body as the extension of my ideas/brain... thus I love it for what it can do for me; but sometimes its bothersome; body is too heavy, too slow, tired, dysfunctional when its heaving sex sometimes, unable to translate my ideas in words sometimes; rebelious when I ask it to go get the girl or to appear confident; ...Etc So no my body is like other humans, I don't especially hate them but sometimes they are boring and non-cooperative and other time they bring me joys I must admit. Depends.
 

Architect

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Yes the x was meant to be a variable

Obviously, I asked whether the two x's were different instances of x, or the same, but never mind ...

And the ISFJ seems to have INFJ tendancies also

Yes they are a close cousin to the INFJ, as is the ISTP to the INTP. But the differences are large. The ISFJ is so closely tied to the past while the INFJ is not. On pairing that would play out that the ISFJ would want social conformity and an active social life which the INTP would detest. There would be some little difficulty between the two.

Likewise the ISTP and the INFJ would simply not get along at all. ISTP's have little regard for the arts and are generally stubborn, the two pairs wouldn't work at all.
 

deadpixel

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Obviously, I asked whether the two x's were different instances of x, or the same, but never mind ...



Yes they are a close cousin to the INFJ, as is the ISTP to the INTP. But the differences are large. The ISFJ is so closely tied to the past while the INFJ is not. On pairing that would play out that the ISFJ would want social conformity and an active social life which the INTP would detest. There would be some little difficulty between the two.

Likewise the ISTP and the INFJ would simply not get along at all. ISTP's have little regard for the arts and are generally stubborn, the two pairs wouldn't work at all.
I meant to say x was a variable for all of the possible types.

This ISFJ doesnt care about a social life, she only seems to be concerned about me.
In what ways do the istp and isfj make a good match, and in what ways do an intp and an isfj make a bad one?
 

Jennywocky

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Refer to my response to salmoneus, my situation sounds very similiar to yours. I will also say that I've changed.... a lot now that I think about it, one change of which is that im a lot more organised now.

Who had enough of who if you dont mind me asking, or was it mutual? If I had to guess I would say it was you bc ISFJ's seem to be able to tolerate a lot.

Meh, I'm not sure I agree with that in the very broad sense you've stated it. I found my ex really hard to deal with in some respects. As long as toleration aligns with the ideal Si and social Fe values, they'll tolerate a LOT to the point of martyrdom; but if it runs counter to those ideals, they're pretty inflexible. It's hard dealing with someone who feels fine with labeling other people's perspectives and values as always right or always wrong, who takes everything personally, who needs to obey authority as a starting point, etc. There was such a black and white quality to things especially in the beginning.
 
In contrast, while certainly I have my own standards (especially in terms of the creative and intellectual), by nature I'm far more open to what I don't know for sure, and I'm willing to find a meeting place in the middle for disparate views. There are problems with that approach too, certainly, but I was more flexible in some ways.
 
The answer is that we ended up having a dealbreaker in our relationship. This dealbreaker became evident in the first few years of the marriage, but to preserve the relationship, and because I wasn't 100% about whether it was a dealbreaker, I did my best for years and years and was the one to suffer and flex. Finally I reached the point where I realized things were doomed to fail regardless unless there were changes, and those changes were unacceptable to my ex. Although we had had the discussion for years, I was always the one who had flexed, and there was no longer a point to it -- either the relationship died as it was, or I changed things and it might die. So I picked the most viable route.

I don't want to sound harsh with my ex because this was just something where you either can change with each other or you can't, regardless of what you wish you could do, and in this instance we just couldn't change together. We were too different at that point. It did not help that we started with somewhat similar religious values and over the years my own perspective changed (conservative Christian -> theist agnostic at best), so we no longer were in sync that way. We were going in different directions.
 
Anyway, I stopped flexing, and so my ex said we had to separate; and then a few years later after my ex gave up the idea God would somehow fix everything [despite this huge track record of that not being the case], the idea of divorce was floated, and I complied because I didn't want to hold together a marriage that was already dead in everything else but name... and by that point I just wanted to move on.

To be honest, while I miss my ex and also the marriage in some ways, in other ways I'm really happy. I am glad to have had the experience, it helped me grow up and become a better stronger person. But there are things I will not miss from the relationship -- the guilt trips, the feeling that my way was always wrong, all the constraints about what I "should" and "shouldn't" do, the fear of new things, the value judgments. I have a lot more flexibility to be myself and explore the world than I did in that relationship. We both seem a lot happier now, and while there were some good times in the marriage, so much of it was just a slog despite our both trying as hard as we could. I think I was right in the long run, especially seeing things now, but it always hurts to lose something you have both invested so much in and were serious about.
 

deadpixel

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Meh, I'm not sure I agree with that in the very broad sense you've stated it. I found my ex really hard to deal with in some respects. As long as toleration aligns with the ideal Si and social Fe values, they'll tolerate a LOT to the point of martyrdom; but if it runs counter to those ideals, they're pretty inflexible. It's hard dealing with someone who feels fine with labeling other people's perspectives and values as always right or always wrong, who takes everything personally, who needs to obey authority as a starting point, etc. There was such a black and white quality to things especially in the beginning.
 
In contrast, while certainly I have my own standards (especially in terms of the creative and intellectual), by nature I'm far more open to what I don't know for sure, and I'm willing to find a meeting place in the middle for disparate views. There are problems with that approach too, certainly, but I was more flexible in some ways.
 
The answer is that we ended up having a dealbreaker in our relationship. This dealbreaker became evident in the first few years of the marriage, but to preserve the relationship, and because I wasn't 100% about whether it was a dealbreaker, I did my best for years and years and was the one to suffer and flex. Finally I reached the point where I realized things were doomed to fail regardless unless there were changes, and those changes were unacceptable to my ex. Although we had had the discussion for years, I was always the one who had flexed, and there was no longer a point to it -- either the relationship died as it was, or I changed things and it might die. So I picked the most viable route.

I don't want to sound harsh with my ex because this was just something where you either can change with each other or you can't, regardless of what you wish you could do, and in this instance we just couldn't change together. We were too different at that point. It did not help that we started with somewhat similar religious values and over the years my own perspective changed (conservative Christian -> theist agnostic at best), so we no longer were in sync that way. We were going in different directions.
 
Anyway, I stopped flexing, and so my ex said we had to separate; and then a few years later after my ex gave up the idea God would somehow fix everything [despite this huge track record of that not being the case], the idea of divorce was floated, and I complied because I didn't want to hold together a marriage that was already dead in everything else but name... and by that point I just wanted to move on.

To be honest, while I miss my ex and also the marriage in some ways, in other ways I'm really happy. I am glad to have had the experience, it helped me grow up and become a better stronger person. But there are things I will not miss from the relationship -- the guilt trips, the feeling that my way was always wrong, all the constraints about what I "should" and "shouldn't" do, the fear of new things, the value judgments. I have a lot more flexibility to be myself and explore the world than I did in that relationship. We both seem a lot happier now, and while there were some good times in the marriage, so much of it was just a slog despite our both trying as hard as we could. I think I was right in the long run, but it always hurts to lose something you have both invested so much in and were serious about.

Yes they do tolerate a lot, but with a nice little guilt trip added to it, just so you dont get to fully enjoy whatever it is they have to tolerate. This ISFJ and I we have a lot of the same moral values when it comes to relationships, but I think that is about it. We do our best do diffuse arguments, but it's really really hard to keep my mouth shut when shes giving her opinion about a certain topic and she just wants me to listen and agree when my brain just wants to spill out facts. Then she sees it as me trying to argue with her which im not, im simply just having a conversation, or at least I thought I was. You tell me how you feel about something and I will reciprocate my thoughts, thats what a conversation is right?

aside from the arguments and different opinions on just about everything basically, it does have a lot of advantages too. Im sure male ISFJ's are different than female ISFJ's.
 

Jennywocky

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Yes they do tolerate a lot, but with a nice little guilt trip added to it, just so you dont get to fully enjoy whatever it is they have to tolerate. This ISFJ and I we have a lot of the same moral values when it comes to relationships, but I think that is about it. We do our best do diffuse arguments, but it's really really hard to keep my mouth shut when shes giving her opinion about a certain topic and she just wants me to listen and agree when my brain just wants to spill out facts. Then she sees it as me trying to argue with her which im not, im simply just having a conversation, or at least I thought I was. You tell me how you feel about something and I will reciprocate my thoughts, thats what a conversation is right?

Yeah, the thought/feeling dichotomy was pretty strong; one of us wanted to parse for content and coherence, the other for harmony and agreement. That was one area where we both absorbed each other's approach to some degree.

There's so much stuff that is easy to read as negative / an assault of some kind, but it's more just two people applying different approaches with positive underlying motivations and being misperceived. It was so crazy.
 

deadpixel

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Yeah, the thought/feeling dichotomy was pretty strong; one of us wanted to parse for content and coherence, the other for harmony and agreement. That was one area where we both absorbed each other's approach to some degree.

There's so much stuff that is easy to read as negative / an assault of some kind, but it's more just two people applying different approaches with positive underlying motivations and being misperceived. It was so crazy.

Yes crazy is the only way to describe it actually, even when we do come to the same conclusions which we do often, we have different reasons for how we got to it. Im more concerned about all of the technicalities and facts involved to come to a better understanding of why something is the way that it is. She is more concerned about how it affects other people and its negative role in society. If i try to elaborate more on the topic she actually thinks that im making excuses for these people or justifying other peoples actions, no im just giving reasons. We are talking, this is a discussion we are having about something you brought up.

INTP: Yes things are this way and here is why.
ISFJ: No they are this way because people are just this, and people are just that. INTP: Yeah but these people are just like this and that because of x factor and y factor, which is a result of z factor which all boils down to point A.
ISFJ: You and I have different views on what is acceptable and what isnt acceptable. Why are you making excuses for them.
INTP: Im not making excuses for them, im just telling you why those people are like that. We are talking about something that you have brought up.

A common type of argument for us, this is our only main problem, other than that everything is pretty good lol.
 

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INTP: Yes things are this way and here is why.
ISFJ: No they are this way because people are just this, and people are just that.
INTP: Yeah but these people are just like this and that because of x factor and y factor, which is a result of z factor which all boils down to point A.
ISFJ: You and I have different views on what is acceptable and what isnt acceptable. Why are you making excuses for them.
INTP: Im not making excuses for them, im just telling you why those people are like that. We are talking about something that you have brought up.

Oh god, please stop... I started having bad flashbacks reading that exchange... lol. (Srsly, though, i did; I just immediately tensed up.)
 

deadpixel

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Oh god, please stop... I started having bad flashbacks reading that exchange... lol. (Srsly, though, i did; I just immediately tensed up.)

=x sorry
 

Architect

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This ISFJ doesnt care about a social life, she only seems to be concerned about me.
In what ways do the istp and isfj make a good match, and in what ways do an intp and an isfj make a bad one?

People do vary according to the personality (neocortex learned personality - versus hardcoded type). I do know a ISFJ who is less socially conscious than my sister in law. She still expresses it though - she volunteers at her kids school and became a advocate for GATE students. One way or another it will make its way out. It sounds like your ISFJ has picked you as her project - this other one I know might be married to an INTJ, we're not sure about him. So ISFJ's will also pick individual people causes, their kids or mates.

In general N and S types don't mix for the long term because of different aims and language. S types want stability, familiarity while INTP's want to live in a cave and think.
 

deadpixel

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People do vary according to the personality (neocortex learned personality - versus hardcoded type). I do know a ISFJ who is less socially conscious than my sister in law. She still expresses it though - she volunteers at her kids school and became a advocate for GATE students. One way or another it will make its way out. It sounds like your ISFJ has picked you as her project - this other one I know might be married to an INTJ, we're not sure about him. So ISFJ's will also pick individual people causes, their kids or mates.

In general N and S types don't mix for the long term because of different aims and language. S types want stability, familiarity while INTP's want to live in a cave and think.

Sounds about right.
 
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