INTP...need to develop the J

[Zionoxis]

Hey guys, just curious, what would be the best way of strengthening the J side a bit more? I am under the assumption that by simply doing things, I would get into the habit, but unfortunately, a habit does not change the way one thinks, does it?

 

[GYX_Kid]

Yeah. Do more, make more decisions basically. Any decision requires a judgement, and perceivers tend to make slower yet more accurate ones. With more experience and frequency of working out that muscle, you can make both quick and accurate conclusions/decisions.

I was thinking of making a similar thread

 

[Zionoxis]

I guess that by forming opinions it will help me. My assumption through attempting to develop the J is primarily due to the fact that as an INTP..I come up with many ideas, but I often fail to implement them (or I get about halfway through and find it boring so thus, I abandon it for my new 'fad').

To this day, I find many of my unfinished projects as a regret because had I finished even half of them, I would be so much more today.

 

[sammael]

What is it about the J side that you find desirable..? What do you wish to strengthen/develop..? Of course I could define that myself, but it would be better from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

EDIT: Kind of answered ^above, could you expand any more..? Exact definition helps, I find.

 

[GYX_Kid]

It's just the way we work. We become more J (or to be more accurate increasing the behaviors that a J would use, while still being P) when we gradually learn how, which is why I've made sure to keep all or most of my ideas that were decided to be worthy. Most of them are scattered around somewhere, but I have been diving into organizing them more recently.

In fact, in recent times is when I've been working more on implementing past ideas I've had. INTPs are savers and investers, and make intelligent gambles (unless we're testing the waters and don't care about an outcome). I heard from somewhere that Einstein didn't speak until he was perfectly sure he could. People assumed he was slow, and then suddenly he emerges with a mastery. Fuckin robot-ninja surprise.

Keep your unfinished projects. There's idea-mode and there's action-mode. We obsessively target one at a time to focus on. Most 'perfect' way in the long run.

 

[Bird]

Make a schedule and stick to it.


You can start out small and just keep adding.


Like: brush your teeth every day at 5:45am
Read two chapters between 3pm and 4pm

When you get more comfortable with your
schedule you can add more and more things
and your time will be managed excellently.

 

[GYX_Kid]

^ or a loose version of that, like "save your current thought process and get up to brush your teeth, at around 7-8"

 

[Bird]

^ or a loose version of that, like "save your current thought process and get up to brush your teeth, at around 7-8"

It was just an example. And precise times are best.
Not looseness.

 

[GYX_Kid]

yeah, but it's harder to develop a habit going cold turkey from complete looseness to complete structure. i think so, at least. Especially if the schedule change might be an interruption of something.

 

[Zionoxis]

What is it about the J side that you find desirable..? What do you wish to strengthen/develop..? I find.

For that, allow me to elaborate. Generally speaking, the J type tends to do a bit more do'ing than the P type...at least with me, this applies. I do far too much planning and hardly ever actually get around to doing something though I know exactly how to do it.

I am under the impression that the J type would both strengthen my ability to simply do things, but also as a way to judge the best action to take quickly on the spot when I do not always have the time to think everything through perfectly as I often do.

As a small child, I was horrible at making comebacks because I thought about it so much. Yet, when I was told to share my thought process, everyone would be surprised at the speed in which I thought. I simply took forever to reach a conclusion based on the thought process. I just never Judged which action would be best.

yeah, but it's harder to develop a habit going cold turkey from complete looseness to complete structure. i think so, at least. Especially if the schedule change might be an interruption of something.

I have actually found that cold turkey is the only way I can get something done, lol. My biggest commitments were either accidental or I just started doing it and it stuck.

In middle school, I just randomly started reading my Bible one chapter every night and I stuck with it for a year and a half. For me, that is quite the accomplishment.

 

[Meer]

It was just an example. And precise times are best.
Not looseness.

Abandoning looseness pains me. So, so much. Sometimes, it has to be done.

When you're sitting around, thinking about things, and a thought appears about something you should do, you should probably just get up and do it, instead of disappearing back into the endless thoughts. I guess.

 

[Zionoxis]

Abandoning looseness pains me. So, so much. Sometimes, it has to be done.

When you're sitting around, thinking about things, and a thought appears about something you should do, you should probably just get up and do it, instead of disappearing back into the endless thoughts. I guess.

You mean when you start thinking about something, forgot what you were thinking about, then while attempting to retrieve the thought you thought was important, you then get distracted and begin to think about thinking? I just did that today, lol.

 

[smithcommajohn]

To this day, I find many of my unfinished projects as a regret because had I finished even half of them, I would be so much more today.

Wow, that sounds sad.

Certain kinds of projects need completion, but most do not. What more would you be today had you finished certain projects? You are still the same person, are you not?

I can understand the desire to have wanted to complete more, but how much joy would that really bring you? I can barely remember my accomplishments, because once they are complete, who gives a shit anymore? I'm not one to tout what I have done, but relish in my current and potential future endeavors.

Any of us can change our outward view type. I can act like a J if I need to (especially at work), but my natural inclination is P. I don't know if you can change that by will.

 

[Zionoxis]

Wow, that sounds sad.

Certain kinds of projects need completion, but most do not. What more would you be today had you finished certain projects? You are still the same person, are you not?

I can understand the desire to have wanted to complete more, but how much joy would that really bring you? I can barely remember my accomplishments, because once they are complete, who gives a shit anymore? I'm not one to tout what I have done, but relish in my current and potential future endeavors.

Any of us can change our outward view type. I can act like a J if I need to (especially at work), but my natural inclination is P. I don't know if you can change that by will.

Said accomplishments include learning C++, finishing the MMORPG I was working on, and gaining a mastery of mySQL and PHP. :P Such accomplishments would mean I could currently do far more than I can now (and most likely have a lot more money).

By the end of the year, all I will have left is a good knowledge of Python and my CCNA in addition to a malware removal training (which only matters online as it is not an actual certification).

 

[smithcommajohn]

Said accomplishments include learning C++, finishing the MMORPG I was working on, and gaining a mastery of mySQL and PHP. :P Such accomplishments would mean I could currently do far more than I can now (and most likely have a lot more money).

By the end of the year, all I will have left is a good knowledge of Python and my CCNA in addition to a malware removal training (which only matters online as it is not an actual certification).

There are plenty of things I could have finished that would have yielded me more money, but lets face facts, I chose my own happiness over money and I would do it a thousand times over if I had the chance.

Money is a non-issue once you sort it out. Do what you enjoy.

 

[Zionoxis]

There are plenty of things I could have finished that would have yielded me more money, but lets face facts, I chose my own happiness over money and I would do it a thousand times over if I had the chance.

Money is a non-issue once you sort it out. Do what you enjoy.

The problem is that a lot of what I enjoy requires money so I am left a little stuck. I enjoy traveling and technology. I am sure we all know what kind of toll having the newest gadgets can take on one's pocketbook.

 

[smithcommajohn]

Money is simple.

a) Live below your means.
b) Invest the excess.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Abandoning looseness pains me. So, so much. Sometimes, it has to be done.

When you're sitting around, thinking about things, and a thought appears about something you should do, you should probably just get up and do it, instead of disappearing back into the endless thoughts. I guess.

The best way I've found to get myself to do it but not instantly is to write it down somewhere. It never disappears and I am free to do it whenever. This allows me to maintain my looseness but still get myself to do things.

Said accomplishments include learning C++, finishing the MMORPG I was working on, and gaining a mastery of mySQL and PHP. :P Such accomplishments would mean I could currently do far more than I can now (and most likely have a lot more money).

By the end of the year, all I will have left is a good knowledge of Python and my CCNA in addition to a malware removal training (which only matters online as it is not an actual certification).

This is a little irrelevant but by "working on a MMORPG" do you mean you're making one?

 

[Trebuchet]

Something that worked for me was doing one thing, just one, that I did not want to do each day. It could be folding a load of laundry, calling to make an appointment, or doing some aerobics.

It counted even if it was something that needed doing. It counted if it took only one minute. It counted if I ended up enjoying it or finding it satisfying. It just had to be one thing I didn't feel like doing, and I had to decide before I did it. (So, no fair looking back earlier in the day, and saying later, "I washed my breakfast dishes, so that's today's thing." It has to be, "I don't feel like washing those dishes, but I'm going to go over there right now and do it anyway.")

After a few months, I had a lot of things done, and was in the habit of getting at least one thing done, and it was a lot easier. It was a small change, too, not a huge torque to my natural style or current habits, so it wasn't a failure like my attempts at big changes usually are.

 

[SkyWalker]

You guys are confused about J, because MBTI orders functions illogically (J/P wise):
INTP = Ti(1) Ne(2)
You INTPs are already Judgement types!!

Not that Ti is a function that takes quick action like Te, but it does judge.


If you are actually a perception-dom, then you might be ENTP: Ne(1) Ti(2).

 

[smithcommajohn]

You guys are confused about J, because MBTI orders functions illogically (J/P wise):
INTP = Ti(1) Ne(2)
You INTPs are already Judgement types!!

Not that Ti is a function that takes quick action like Te, but it does judge.


If you are actually a perception-dom, then you might be ENTP: Ne(1) Ti(2).

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by the statement "You INTPs are already Judgement types!!"

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

You guys are confused about J, because MBTI orders functions illogically (J/P wise):
INTP = Ti(1) Ne(2)
You INTPs are already Judgement types!!

Not that Ti is a function that takes quick action like Te, but it does judge.


If you are actually a perception-dom, then you might be ENTP: Ne(1) Ti(2).

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by the statement "You INTPs are already Judgement types!!"

SkyWalker is saying that INTPs are judgment types because our first function is Thinking, a judgement function. But the concept behind placing the P/J in the type comes from whichever of the two dominant functions is extraverted. So true Judgers have an Extraverted Judging function rather than the Judging function being necessarily dominant.

 

[GYX_Kid]

I guess that by forming opinions it will help me.

Come to think of it, I probably seem much more opinionated in general than in the past. It took a while to develop the accurate expression of formed opinions of complex external things- I guess I used to have more of a tendency to fluctuate from 0 opinion about something to an extreme opinion of it, while making a partially incorrect association between some slightly-realized feeling of mine and the external object/concept.

I mean, you know, developing attitudes and stances that you can be concrete, assured and confident about. Takes both experience and analysis of self and environment. A Perceiver's default route is likely going to be more of self-judging and environment-perceiving, which means that there are obstacles in learning that adhere to that style

 

[Zionoxis]

This is a little irrelevant but by "working on a MMORPG" do you mean you're making one?

To answer your question, yes, I was working on one. I never completed it, but I had done a lot of work with story programming and gameplay system. I am not even sure if I know where all the work is saved now, lol. The SQL and PHP work scared me silly while trying to connect my project to a server so it would be an MMO instead of just an RPG.

My problem is not judging as a whole, but actually taking action based on judgement. I do not know, but INTJ's I have seen in shows always seem to be worth admiration as they are always three steps ahead of everyone, they are calling the shots, and they are doing things.

As an INTP, I just feel misunderstood as a person, more intelligent than anyone in the room, but I do not really do anything to prove my intelligence. My grades are good, but not great, so seeing as many students use that as a benchmark for how 'smart' someone is, I am not categorized as a genius. An INTJ, however, would not make the best grades, but would at least have every situation manipulated in such a way that got what he desired.

 

[SkyWalker]

The J/P is not just one letter, its entirely different functions.

INTP = Ti(1) Ne(2)

INTJ = Ni(1) Te(2). An ENTJ would be even more outspoken and "manipulative": Te(1) Ni(2)

The Te is pursuing, your Ti is avoidant.

Ti builds philosphical maps (only asks why questions)
Te builds applicable solutions (only asks how questions)

Ti is deep (not practical). Te is shallow (practical).

 

[ked]

J means thinking or feeling is dominating over P, over iNtuition and Sensing.

 

[sammael]

The J/P is not just one letter, its entirely different functions.

INTP = Ti(1) Ne(2)

INTJ = Ni(1) Te(2). An ENTJ would be even more outspoken and "manipulative": Te(1) Ni(2)

The Te is pursuing, your Ti is avoidant.

Ti builds philosphical maps (only asks why questions)
Te builds applicable solutions (only asks how questions)

Ti is deep (not practical). Te is shallow (practical).

SkyWalker, you're making it unnecessarily complicated. The OP is referring to Judging as a generalisation of characteristics i.e. J types are organised, quick making decisions, follow through with plans etc. in comparison to us P's that have a tendency to be disorganised, procrastinate etc. We may have a judging function as first in the hierarchy, but it is introverted, which makes a big difference. The question is how dominant/auxiliary introverted judging function (P) people can bring the judging aspect into the external world more, and develop more the typical characteristics of dominant/auxiliary extraverted judging function. We don't need that kind of detail in a discussion such as this though, we just take P = introverted dominant/auxiliary judging function, J = extraverted dominant/auxiliary judging function. It's more about the effects these have on our personality, rather than a definition of what they are.

J means thinking or feeling is dominating over P, over iNtuition and Sensing.

J means thinking or feeling is extraverted in the top two, P means intuition or sensing is extraverted in the top two.


The OP asks a good question. I personally see my lack of typical J traits such as follow through and an abundance of typical P traits such as procrastination my biggest weakness. I have struggled with this for most of my conscious life (what I can remember). I too see myself as far below my potential, and I know I could achieve a lot if only I could focus and see a project/task out. I too have regrets about not making the most of opportunities that have presented themselves. I know it's a balancing act, as smithcommajohn pointed out, enjoyment of life, of each day, of each moment, is also important. But if I am not achieving the things I really want, then everything suffers. I wish there was a simple solution, but like everything in life that matters, that's not the case.