INTP - But how do you explain the following?

[ItstheSizzle]

Hey all,

I'm new to the forum and relatively new to MB Typology. I've recently become fascinated with the MB personality distinctions since being introduced. I have always enjoyed studying/researching psychology, particularly social psychology. Incidentally, Frasier is my favourite TV Show.

I read Gifts Differing recently, which consolidated my belief that I was an INTP. Certain online tests suggested I might alternatively be classified as an ENTP or INTJ.

I recently began reading the INTP book by Drenth, but have yet to complete it.

While I find myself concurring all too vehemently with the vast majority of the INTP archetype, there are still some marked differences to which I'm seeking explanations.

To give you a brief overview of my inclinations, I'm currently working as a Personal Trainer (there's that Fe kicking in) but have recently become bored and disoriented and decided to go in the direction of creative writing and perhaps journalism. I'm into the fourth year of my relationship (I'm 29) with an ENFP and perpetually struggling to find peace/balance between my needs and that of my clingy, demanding, relentless partner. I spend most of my free time reading, writing and socialising with close friends over coffee.

Here is where I differ, and I haven't managed to effectively speculate as to why.
I understand INTP's have a tendency to be intellectual narcissists, but I am arguably more of the physical variety. My girlfriend complains about the amount of time I spend fixing my hair and looking in the mirror. I spend the majority of my income on clothes, almost exclusively designer labels, and rather ashamedly would much rather be "validated" for my looks and general presentation than my intellect.

My defence is that "Beauty is a form of intelligence."

While I also appreciate the finer things in life, I have no interest in money per se.

Having said that, my girlfriend also complains that I'm a distant, condescending snob, cold-hearted, smug, superior, inexpressive of emotion and obsessed with logic.

Are there any INTP's out there, like myself, who are particularly vain and might be considered vaguely imperious?

 

[Absurdity]

Welcome. You sound like an INTJ who thinks he's an INTP. I was there once.

To give you a brief overview of my inclinations, I'm currently working as a Personal Trainer (there's that Fe kicking in)

Or inferior Se.

Here is where I differ, and I haven't managed to effectively speculate as to why.
I understand INTP's have a tendency to be intellectual narcissists, but I am arguably more of the physical variety. My girlfriend complains about the amount of time I spend fixing my hair and looking in the mirror. I spend the majority of my income on clothes, almost exclusively designer labels, and rather ashamedly would much rather be "validated" for my looks and general presentation than my intellect.

My defence is that "Beauty is a form of intelligence."

All of this screams inferior Se.

Having said that, my girlfriend also complains that I'm a distant, condescending snob, cold-hearted, smug, superior, inexpressive of emotion and obsessed with logic.

Sounds like an INTJ.

 

[Architect]

Welcome. You sound like an INTJ who thinks he's an INTP. I was there once.

Or inferior Se.

All of this screams inferior Se.

Sounds like an INTJ.

Right, or ISTP is also probable. Too many things here that an INTP would be very unlikely to do. Spend money on clothes? Personal trainer? Fuss over hair? Extraordinarily unlikely. Sensors most often type themselves as intuitives (thus ISTP-INTP), and while INTP's often type themselves as INTJ's, I didn't know the reverse happened.

 

[Absurdity]

Right, or ISTP is also probable.

True, but I'm not sure how many ISTPs would spend the majority of their time writing, reading, and frequenting coffee shops. My brother is an ISTP and I can't remember the last time he read an entire book without being forced to. That said, it's certainly not impossible.

Sensors most often type themselves as intuitives (thus ISTP-INTP), and while INTP's often type themselves as INTJ's, I didn't know the reverse happened.

I thought I was an INTP for years, albeit a weird one. Realization began to dawn on me after spending some time here and seeing real Ti in action. I also think that sometimes Fe grip spirals and Se grip spirals can manifest in very similar habits: Was I trying to fit into college binge-drinking culture for the approval of my peers or for the sake of the indulgence itself? Or was it both? I think this is where typology breaks down and more nuanced self-understanding is required based on as critical an unbiased reflection as possible.

 

[Architect]

True, but I'm not sure how many ISTPs would spend the majority of their time writing, reading, and frequenting coffee shops. My brother is an ISTP and I can't remember the last time he read an entire book without being forced to. That said, it's certainly not impossible.

Fair point, but consider Woody Allen. Surely some kind of Intuitive? If you study him however you see somebody who obsessively exercises and loves watching sports, even though the body type and neuroticism are atypical. INFJ has looked into his personal life and sees an ISTP, albeit somewhat atypical. Regardless it could be either one, and I'd agree the ISTP's I know are not huge readers and writers.

I thought I was an INTP for years, albeit a weird one. Realization began to dawn on me after spending some time here and seeing real Ti in action.

That's a good way to figure it out.

 

[ItstheSizzle]

Interesting ideas guys.

While I see the logic in typing myself as an SJ, I'm still not so sure. Consider the following

1/ I'm always late, to everything. My room looks like a bomb went off. My girlfriend is always complaining that I tend to dawdle, procrastinate and never "plan ahead".
2/ A planned 5 minute shower turns into 25 minutes, often, as I get lost in my thoughts.
3/ I am a PT, but I have written a 40-page satirical sitcom treatment on the hypocrisy and toxic nature of the industry. My vanity made me work out often, and the possibility of working odd hours which I set myself attracted me to being a PT. And the amount of beautiful women that attend gyms, however vapid they may be.
4/ I would never, ever work 9-5. Routine is anathema.
5/ My friends, the ones who I have typed as sensors always complain about the direction I take with discussions. I always say things like "But what about if...", "But then that means..." and over-analyze the most minute and insignificant of details. They tune out when I ask them "hypothetical questions".
5/ My friends also complain that I aimlessly argue both sides of the fence. I remember recently, I asked them "Do you think human beings are fundamentally evil or good?" When they all gave me their answers (bare in mind I hadn't even thought of mine, and still don't know) I argued against their POV's, pretty effectively if I do say so myself, which led them to respond incredulously with "So you think that human beings are evil!?" which made me say "No", I reargued their original argument, bamboozled them and never committed to an answer.

But yes, there is that passion for fashion and meticulous grooming regimen which still confounds me...

 

[Trebuchet]

I had an INTP coworker once who was pretty vain about his appearance. My INTP dad has always been very interested in fitness and nutrition. As for vaguely imperious, yes, I think many of us get called that.

I don't see why fascination with beauty is inconsistent with being INTP. We like to be experts. We also like to show off what we know, and enjoy knowing more than other people around us, whether we use that to put them down or try to teach them.

I think most INTPs don't care about fashion or beauty because we don't let other people dictate to us how to behave, nor do we care about authority. Most fashion comes from following other people's ideas and rules.

But if you are using a nice appearance for your own pleasure, social advantage, or just find it an interesting system you can (*ahem*) model, then it is no different than becoming an expert in anything else.

I also don't believe in a "textbook" INTP. We are also the sum of our experiences, and we are certainly not a homogeneous group, no matter what other people think of us. Having a few traits that aren't common on this forum doesn't mean you aren't INTP.

 

[Architect]

I also don't believe in a "textbook" INTP. We are also the sum of our experiences, and we are certainly not a homogeneous group, no matter what other people think of us. Having a few traits that aren't common on this forum doesn't mean you aren't INTP.

It should be clear that none of us disagree with that, nor with the idea that INTPs could be beauty obsessed. But the individual asked a question and we tried to answer, what do you expect? This is the equivalent of somebody coming online and asking "Do you think I think I'm intelligent? Here's some of the stuff I've done ..." Well sure, you did get through High School, but then you got drunk and did what? You see there's very little to go on.

Some people look at these discussions as evidence of the non existence of MBTI, or the non validity, or the closed mindedness of forum members as they make a stab at it. The question above should make it clear that making an MBTI assessment on a few paragraphs of self written text is not easy.

However, given what he told us, I stand by my assessment that from that basis he does not sound like an INTP, though obviously he still could be AFAIK.