Insecurities of being an INTP Woman

[KieuAnh]

Throughout most of my life before university, I wasn't too concerned about how people percieved me. Though in truth, not many people liked me because I tended to be a bit quiet and when I did talk I was fairly blunt. It wasn't verbal but peoples' body language and facial expressions told me right away. I also got put down by another guy because he got irritated by my dry, sarcastic humour.

University was a different story. I hadn't actively made friends since I was 14 and being an average fetus face (I'm 20 now but haven't aged since 14), I was having trouble socialising and having people take me seriously. I got over the easy hurdles of being a "woman", dressing nice, doing my makeup and outwardly, I looked the part. But I couldn't embody the bubbliness or approachable demeanor that most girls seemed to just have naturally. I couldn't shake off my stoic exterior and coupled with good old social anxiety, I found it hard just trying to force a conversation out of people.

After reading about the INTP I realised I just could never morph myself into the "ideal woman". So I've given up on that prospect but the pressure to conform is still there. I know it's all a social construct to opress both genders but I can't but I feel quite inadequate as a woman. I even wanted to just wake up one day and be a guy so I didn't have to deal with this pressure to over compensate on my lack of feminity. Although I know it isn't too great for the guys either.

How do you guys deal with the pressure to conform to gender stereotypes? I have 2 INFJ friends who have a much easier time than I do.

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[Ex-User (9086)]

There's no need to conform if you hang out with the right people.

Maybe easier said than done, but it's definitely more effective than starting to blame the society and the way it's set up to explain why one can't succeed or find their own niche.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Sinny91]

Hey.

I can relate to all of that.

Was a tomboy growing up, I ran in the dirt, climbed tree's and played football with the boys.
I played football and sports throughout the whole of school, but all my girl friends were girly girly girls, and so they dragged me through the whole womanhood initiations with them anyway.

By my latter teenage years, I made and effort to be more feminine as we were all out 'hitting the town'.

But as you have noted there are some things we just can't change.

I'm tense, stoic, straight-faced, guarded, and sometime's I unnerve people just by looking at them. When I dress, I dress for practicality and when I move it's for efficiency. I do wear light make up every other day, but only cuz I've honed it into about a 4-5 minute effort.

My best friend is always calling me a bloke, jokingly.. He's a bit effeminate, and I'm a bit masculine. We're a funny pair.

The only feminine thing I really have going for me is my body, it makes up for the lack of femininity in my personality.

I couldn't conform to the expectations of others, even if I wanted to; so that's how I deal with that. I just own who I am. Socially awkward, and self assured. I've got plenty friends, I got a few wannabe suitors, I got arms, I got legs, what more could I want?

 

[KieuAnh]

It's hard to find people to vent this to because they don't really understand so it's more or less a rant. I usually tell myself to suck it up and just do my thing. I have a lot of anxiety in general so I can't help but be negative. I have a ESFJ mum so I'm constantly having this notion being reinforced

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[Nebulous]

Spend some time reading about gender on tumblr
You might find a gender identity that fits you more than 'female.'
It took me forever to really understand the different gender identities... But when I realized that I fit into the description of 'agender' I felt MUCH more comfortable in my own skin.

http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Agender

 

[Jennywocky]

Well, it sounds more like a conflict between social expectations for a woman and who she is, versus her being unsure of who she is herself when she's alone. The only context she mentions in terms of "wanting to be male" is simply so that she can fit in better.

It's always good to explore, it's just that INTP women tend to not fit social expectations well and this isn't uncommon for INTP women to feel these kinds of things. I'm older, have developed a lot of social skills over the years, and yet my natural inclinations and presentation lead me to feel the same kind of pressures, anxieties, and lack of fitting in in some ways.

 

[kora]

As a possible INFJ I am aware of the roles you speak of and do indeed find them easy enough to conform to. However, I would not be attractive to the people I am attracted to (in friendship or romance) if I conformed to them. And NT women give off a really cool vibe in my experience, I would not want to get rid of this in favour of something so dull as "bubbly and cute" if I were you. Surely you find people who accept you for who you are?

 

[Tannhauser]

People don't really care about how you dress or whether you fit a stereotype or not. Just be friendly and cool, forget all these theories about what people think, and discover how extremely simple social life is.

 

[kora]

^ Indeed

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Listen to Higs. There is an overabundance of high strung, over-emotional, and less than intellectually inclined women; outside of religious circles the intp woman is actually in fairly high demand. Be confident and assert yourself as you truly are, unapologetically. Play to your strengths and embrace whatever it is that makes you odd. People will find you a refreshing break from the norm. You can even wear your resting bitch-face with pride (it's actually pretty useful).

Sure, you'll probably end up butting heads with traditionalists or that generic, but high ego, loud dude, but I've found that it's entirely too much fun to snark at them. It is probably wise to assert yourself with your mother as well. You are what you are, and you both need to accept it. It's better for your relationship in the long run to straighten this out, even if it means temporary conflict.

Not that you have to dispense with your femininity entirely of course; there's nothing wrong with keeping the bits you like and binning the rest. The problem is, when you don't assert yourself, some people will assert themselves or various social constructs over you. Even if you'd much rather be the one that bends for the sake of avoiding conflict; you have to be willing to go toe to toe with them when necessary. Fortunately, most people learn pretty quickly, and often, will like you more afterwards, and even appreciate the ways in which you differ. Have a sense humor about it and, genuinely if possible, retain an aura that you are unconcerned of how you measure up to the social constructs, positively or negatively. Most people respect that. You have better things to concern yourself with, than where you fall on the scale of acceptable womanliness.

University was a different story. I hadn't actively made friends since I was 14 and being an average fetus face (I'm 20 now but haven't aged since 14)

Yeah, I have this too, especially since I'm 5'2 and don't wear makeup. Nevertheless, I'm often told I'm intimidating.

-two days ago-
Random Coworker: "So then... You just finished highschool right?"
Adaire: No, I'm 25.
Random Coworker: Oh, sorry.

I even wanted to just wake up one day and be a guy so I didn't have to deal with this pressure to over compensate on my lack of feminity.

I get this sometimes too, in the sense that it would be nice for my sex/gender not to matter so much and since 'male' is the default it seems like it being male would be extremely relaxing. The fact that I'm female is so much more important to other people than it is to me, and that is... disconcerting sometimes.

 

[Haim]

Yea it is a hard thing, after discovering the INTP thing, I reached a conclusion that I just have no interest in the day to day boring things, I just have almost zero interest in small talk, which unfortunately is a step for interesting conversions, no interest in wasting my time thinking on social things.

 

[Frankie]

Listen to Higs. There is an overabundance of high strung, over-emotional, and less than intellectually inclined women; outside of religious circles the intp woman is actually in fairly high demand. Be confident and assert yourself as you truly are, unapologetically. Play to your strengths and embrace whatever it is that makes you odd. People will find you a refreshing break from the norm. You can even wear your resting bitch-face with pride (it's actually pretty useful).

Sure, you'll probably end up butting heads with traditionalists or that generic, but high ego, loud dude, but I've found that it's entirely too much fun to snark at them. It is probably wise to assert yourself with your mother as well. You are what you are, and you both need to accept it. It's better for your relationship in the long run to straighten this out, even if it means temporary conflict.

Not that you have to dispense with your femininity entirely of course; there's nothing wrong with keeping the bits you like and binning the rest. The problem is, when you don't assert yourself, some people will assert themselves or various social constructs over you. Even if you'd much rather be the one that bends for the sake of avoiding conflict; you have to be willing to go toe to toe with them when necessary. Fortunately, most people learn pretty quickly, and often, will like you more afterwards, and even appreciate the ways in which you differ. Have a sense humor about it and, genuinely if possible, retain an aura that you are unconcerned of how you measure up to the social constructs, positively or negatively. Most people respect that. You have better things to concern yourself with, than where you fall on the scale of acceptable womanliness.



Yeah, I have this too, especially since I'm 5'2 and don't wear makeup. Nevertheless, I'm often told I'm intimidating.

-two days ago-
Random Coworker: "So then... You just finished highschool right?"
Adaire: No, I'm 25.
Random Coworker: Oh, sorry.




I get this sometimes too, in the sense that it would be nice for my sex/gender not to matter so much and since 'male' is the default it seems like it being male would be extremely relaxing. The fact that I'm female is so much more important to other people than it is to me, and that is... disconcerting sometimes.

First off, thank you for the enlightening post !(I'm male but most of it applies)
Some questions:
- I've been trying to 'be myself' lately but it just doesn't seem to work out with other people. How long did you have to 'be yourself' before you got used to being yourself and not caring?

- Where do you draw the line between who you are and improving on your 'deficiencies'. I mean, if you don't really care about what others think, how can you make improvements.

To the OP, hang in there, the right people are just by the corner. Hopefully, being yourself will draw them towards you.

 

[Hadoblado]

Tomboyish or otherwise uneffeminate women often find a lot of acceptance from men. Something about the similarity without competition for social niche makes for a peaceful friendship I think.

The social floor for women is also a lot higher than it is for men. You need to be something particularly nasty, or piss off the wrong politically minded people, to warrant the same disdain as the typical male bottom-dweller.

Err... What I'm trying to say is, even if you feel out of place, if you just be yourself you will find a niche and you'll be comfortable and socially accepted.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

First off, thank you for the enlightening post !(I'm male but most of it applies)
Some questions:
- I've been trying to 'be myself' lately but it just doesn't seem to work out with other people. How long did you have to 'be yourself' before you got used to being yourself and not caring?

These question are a bit odd and I'm not sure how to answer. Sure, I have had to adapt to plenty of different roles, but I've never not been myself. Even if I tried in my youth, I was never successful. Although, there was a point I stopped apologizing for being myself, and that was a good change. It is important to have/build a foundation of self-confidence before interacting with the world. As for not caring... well you have to live with yourself first, so your honest and self-critical opinion on yourself is really more important than anyone else's.

Plus you should think about the opinions of other people, and then decide about whether you care about them, and in what capacity you care. Indeed sometimes you should care and make adjustments, but not without analysis. You should understand exactly how and why they think the way they do. For example, I know exactly how and why some hypothetical person might dismiss me as weird or unfeminine. Knowing this I can evaluate whether their position or opinions are of any use to me; in this case they are not and I will make no adjustments to make them feel more comfortable.

- Where do you draw the line between who you are and improving on your 'deficiencies'. I mean, if you don't really care about what others think, how can you make improvements.

Well, again, I don't really advocate not caring what other people think. It's extremely important to be able to apply whatever valuable external insight you're given to yourself. I also highly value courtesy and good manners. No one likes a brat, and rightly so. The 'I don't care about other people' mindset is very immature and impractical.

That said, no one should ever have to apologize for their race, sexuality, or any other inherent trait. So I'm telling op, that she shouldn't apologize for simply existing as a person, independent and unique from other persons with preferences and ideas all her own.

and as for improving yourself, well I can't tell other people what to do, but I do place significant importance upon self-development in my life. However, I'm the sole influence on where I want to go, and how I plan to get there. There are many ways to grow as a person; but letting half-thought criticisms based on unquestioned, minuscule perspectives dictate how you change, is generally a bad idea imo.

 

[Morel Panic]

After reading about the INTP I realised I just could never morph myself into the "ideal woman". So I've given up on that prospect but the pressure to conform is still there. I know it's all a social construct to opress both genders but I can't but I feel quite inadequate as a woman. I even wanted to just wake up one day and be a guy so I didn't have to deal with this pressure to over compensate on my lack of feminity. Although I know it isn't too great for the guys either.

How do you guys deal with the pressure to conform to gender stereotypes?

You're not the only one who doesn't want to be around Hollywood's perverted idea of gender roles. My belief is that it's possible to surround yourself with people who feel the same way.

I used to have a similar problem. As a male, I felt a lot of pressure to assign my self worth based on how much sex I had. I don't take social stress well at all, so trying to reconcile this pressure with my deep desire to have a simple and non-manipulative social life had very bad effects for my mental health and caused me to hate my gender identity.

What worked for me was meet new people in a professional atmosphere where there's more emphasis on being politely professional and it's less appropriate to be overwhelmingly masculine/feminine. This way you can find the types of people you'd like to be around socially with less pressure from the types of people you don't want to be around.

 

[Seteleechete]

How do you guys deal with the pressure to conform to gender stereotypes?

I utterly ignore them, act as I wish and accept being an anti social loner being forced to deal with the consequences.

Not sure I would recommend following my footsteps.

 

[Brontosaurie]

the bubbliness or approachable demeanor that most girls seemed to just have naturally.

What evocative, vivid language

 

[Saywhatnow]

Throughout most of my life before university, I wasn't too concerned about how people percieved me. Though in truth, not many people liked me because I tended to be a bit quiet and when I did talk I was fairly blunt. It wasn't verbal but peoples' body language and facial expressions told me right away. I also got put down by another guy because he got irritated by my dry, sarcastic humour.

University was a different story. I hadn't actively made friends since I was 14 and being an average fetus face (I'm 20 now but haven't aged since 14), I was having trouble socialising and having people take me seriously. I got over the easy hurdles of being a "woman", dressing nice, doing my makeup and outwardly, I looked the part. But I couldn't embody the bubbliness or approachable demeanor that most girls seemed to just have naturally. I couldn't shake off my stoic exterior and coupled with good old social anxiety, I found it hard just trying to force a conversation out of people.

After reading about the INTP I realised I just could never morph myself into the "ideal woman". So I've given up on that prospect but the pressure to conform is still there. I know it's all a social construct to opress both genders but I can't but I feel quite inadequate as a woman. I even wanted to just wake up one day and be a guy so I didn't have to deal with this pressure to over compensate on my lack of feminity. Although I know it isn't too great for the guys either.

How do you guys deal with the pressure to conform to gender stereotypes? I have 2 INFJ friends who have a much easier time than I do.

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The problem is not you, it is the status quo whom are like cattle and want to fit into the status quo.

INTPs have a small circle of friends because intelligent people are rare.

I love the dry sense and sarcastic sense of humor myself but many dont like it, but I can only find the right friends and love if I be myself, not the one society expects me to be.

 

[Saywhatnow]

I utterly ignore them, act as I wish and accept being an anti social loner being forced to deal with the consequences.

Not sure I would recommend following my footsteps.

You are not antisocial. You are selectively social. Dont mix the two and dont let the labels created by others which lack politeness to become a brand put on you.

Always remember INTPs are uniquely special.

 

[PaulMaster]

Regular exercise, eating nutritious foods, keeping quality company, and living your life your way will eliminate the nonsense of even wanting to conform.

I recommend experimenting with psychedelics, too.

 

[Saywhatnow]

Regular exercise, eating nutritious foods, keeping quality company, and living your life your way will eliminate the nonsense of even wanting to conform.

I recommend experimenting with psychedelics, too.

No. Experimenting with drugs of that nature can be detrimental to your health and logical mind. The thirst for seeking the unknown will become explosive as you will experience things beyond reality experienced by you before taking drugs.

 

[PaulMaster]

No. Experimenting with drugs of that nature can be detrimental to your health and logical mind. The thirst for seeking the unknown will become explosive as you will experience things beyond reality experienced by you before taking drugs.

Psychedelics in reasonable doses/amounts are good for the mind.

 

[Saywhatnow]

Psychedelics in reasonable doses/amounts are good for the mind.

How do you measure reasonable?

 

[PaulMaster]

How do you measure reasonable?

Well thats the question lol. I'm sure it varies from person to person, but a couple hits of LSD or an 1/8 of mushrooms would certainly count as reasonable for most folks.

 

[Saywhatnow]

Well thats the question lol. I'm sure it varies from person to person, but a couple hits of LSD or an 1/8 of mushrooms would certainly count as reasonable for most folks.

Try that and you will go from an INTP into an INTP on steroids and it can ve unhealthy because then you will freeze in your thoughts unable to stop thinking.

 

[PaulMaster]

Try that and you will go from an INTP into an INTP on steroids and it can ve unhealthy because then you will freeze in your thoughts unable to stop thinking.

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but its wrong. How much experience do you have with taking psychedelics?

Freezing in your thoughts and being unable to stop thinking arent even the same thing.

A person who has a healthy body and mind will benefit from the experience and likely have a great time along the way.

 

[Saywhatnow]

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but its wrong. How much experience do you have with taking psychedelics?

Freezing in your thoughts and being unable to stop thinking arent even the same thing.

A person who has a healthy body and mind will benefit from the experience and likely have a great time along the way.

I have tried Magic Mushrooms, Marijuana, and the most powerful of them all the God plant (Ayahausca).

 

[PaulMaster]

How did mushrooms compare to Ayahausca?

 

[Saywhatnow]

How did mushrooms compare to Ayahausca?

With Magic Mushrooms it is hard to control what your mind sees and hard to gain back control of reality.

With Ayahausca your senses become 1000% stronger which means you will gain super human powers with hearing, vision, taste and sixth sense to predict and discover. but it has its downside like any other drug