I need your help brothers!

[joesmelley]

Ok, I want to go to Japan to practice at a Zen temple. I have lost all desire to go to college, get a job, save for retirement, then die. Ever since I started becoming obsessed with Zen that whole American lifestyle has become this awful, empty, dreadful, shallow trap to me. I want to adventure, explore, and experience the world before I get locked into this hopeless daily grind I see everyone around me suffering through. And of course, self-realization is the main idea, true awakening, satori, kensho. I want to mend my dualistic mind.

My problem is that I don't want to go in through the system, having to work out citizenship, deal with all the money and bureaucracy. I keep envisioning myself just being able to be dropped off there, with nothing but the clothes on my back and a backpack. From there I'd bum my way from temple to temple until I found one that trained foreigners (I am going to try and learn some Japanese before I go, but learning through immersion is the plan). All I'll have to worry about is food and water, total detachment from all possessions.

So what I'm asking for is advice on how to just get into the country. I don't need living arrangements, I don't need money, I don't need anything. I just need a way to get in there where I wouldn't be obligated or attached to anyone, including the government.

 

[snafupants]

Are you running to something or away from something?

 

[joesmelley]

Both

 

[snafupants]

Both

Well, since there is some solute of running from in that mix, why not see if mingling with different ideas, people and places changes things for the good?

There's no silver bullet for the problematic production of life. You can, however, alleviate some of the pain and enhance some of the pleasure by understanding yourself, your likes and dislikes, the world around you and its inhabitants.

Smog-bound Cali gurus stick around because they have acolytes and alms and big egos and an easy source of income. They haven't found enlightenment and neither have their iron-clad, decades-long followers.

Good luck outrunning yourself. That's why drug addicts are so despondent and pathetic and ridiculous to straight people: because they want to change their station, their ontological frequency but they've selected a temporary and innately flawed means of doing so.

Often when I hear these abstract noetic complaints from folks, and when they prick my own sentiment, there's a craving for a new modality of viewing reality: expressly vertical not horizontal. That's perfectly normal. Just realize there are few shortcuts, and real change comes from exiting your comfort zone.

 

[joesmelley]

"[W]hy not see if mingling with different ideas, people and places changes things for the good?"

Thats exactly what I'm doing

 

[joesmelley]

And I woud say that being homeless in a foreign country without knowing the language is a pretty good way of exciting my comfort zone

 

[snafupants]

And I woud say that being homeless in a foreign country without knowing the language is a pretty good way of exciting my comfort zone

Sounds like a way of outrunning your problems too.

 

[shoeless]

just drive there. lololol

you'd have to first go through the beaurocrazy of getting rid of all your ties to america. whether that's getting rid of the lease to your apartment, giving away all your possessions, quitting your job, etc etc etc. become someone they won't give a shit about on paper.

then save up for a plane ticket. fly fly fly. once you're in japan, you have a couple options.

1) hide from the government. somebody somewhere is gonna want your tax money, which means staying as far away from paper as possible. seems right up your alley right now, right?

2) do it legally. that's the immigration, language/culture test bullshit and the only way you can live without having to fear deportation. because no matter what way you slice it, if you don't legally immigrate there, you're going to be an illegal immigrant. i'm sure a few moments of logical thought process has already arrived you at that conclusion, though.

so short of inventing a floo travel system or just swimming there, the government is gonna be on your back one way or another and that's the simple reality of it. the real question is, how much do you want to be there and what are you willing to do/risk to get there? that's something you have to answer yourself, i'm afraid.

edit// and for the record, i totally understand where you're coming from. i'm in the process of moving back to germany as we speak (though i'm lucky enough i can do it legally at the moment, but not for much longer). i can understand where the american lifestyle can become nothing but drudgery, especially when you've experienced firsthand a different way of life. but at the same time, your life is what you make of it, regardless of where you physically reside. just always keep that in mind.

 

[joesmelley]

My only problem is seeing the lifestyle that surrounds me as not worth living. I could go to college, get a good job, have kids, and do everything the way its done here but I just don't want to.

 

[joesmelley]

Thanks man. Would i have to deal with legalities/citizenship before or after i flew there?

 

[joesmelley]

Could I do it illegally and take a plane? Or is there too much to go through legal wise with airports and citizenship/immigration and all that?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Could I do it illegally and take a plane? Or is there too much to go through legal wise with airports and citizenship/immigration and all that?

You can get a work visa or just travel there and get "lost".

 

[SteelEye]

At the same time, your life is what you make of it, regardless of where you physically reside. just always keep that in mind.

I'm not much of a trustworthy source on this matter, but as someone who has pondered and come close to going homeless just for the sake of it, I do have something small to say.

Zen could be a great goal to seek, but is Japan the only road to take? The whole idea you are looking for is to gain peace without dependence on the outside world. Going to Japan and basing your life quality on your ability to do that is just depending on the world more, and on yourself less. Bring Zen to yourself. You sound as if you have studied extensively; do you really need someone from Japan to help you continue your journey? The internet is one of the most powerful immigration techniques after all.

The drudgery of American life is an illusion. Born out of the illusion of individualism. The drudgery does not have to take up all of your time and focus, as most "successful" people would have you believe, however. Life is a game, a ride, an illusion. Whichever analogy strikes you best, you don't have to go through all the struggles of immigration to rise above the drudgery. You can study, learn, and grow in America. You are wise enough not to get distracted in sole pursuit of the meaningless drudgery of things like college, a job, etc. Try treating those a little like a game and a lot less seriously than other people, and maybe even try teaching some of those other people how to play.

If you stay in America, you will get an experience that most other enlightenment-seeking individuals miss. A chance to be an emissary to the purpose-starved population of the United States is really the only thing that has kept me here so far. It will be harder for you than the serenity of a temple, for certain; but it might also prove BETTER for you and others in the long run.

Anyway, just a proposal for consideration from someone without qualifications for giving life advice. (Did you know they have degrees for that now?)
I hope another perspective was at least somewhat helpful. If not; if this whole post failed to help even one other individual in the world; at least I feel more motivated today. I'm off to work now just to see how many people I can get to either smile, laugh, or give me an inquisitive look reaffirming my apparent insanity.

 

[shoeless]

i agree with steeleye. but to answer your question, every country has different immigration laws, so you'd have to do some research on that. it usually involves staying in the country for some amount of time and taking some kind of test to prove you're worth something to their country. either way, you're probably going to answer the question "why are you coming to japan?" at some point during airport customs. if it's business- or military-related they usually need proof (work visa, military orders, etc). best thing to say is "just visiting". can't do shit about that. (they'll also probably ask how long you'll be there for. you'll have to come up for your own answer on that one.)

so yeah, more research is definitely needed.

 

[snafupants]

South Korea subsidizes dozens of ESL programs that pay a little more than two thousand dollars per month. They pay for your apartment and you only have to work for five hours per day: sounds pretty cushy. My cousin liked it quite a bit, but I'm not adventurous enough to take the plunge.

 

[Reluctantly]

Maybe you could become a park ranger. I've always wanted to do that, but it seems like a waste with my education.

 

[Dapper Dan]

I feel like you could get the same results by just, um, not going to college, getting a crappy office job, and saving for retirement until you die. There's a million ways to make your way in this country.

And, honestly, self-realization sounds like something that should be happening anyways if you're an INTP.

 

[Crazythinker1]

I took the homeless route once, and it was a lot of fun......at first. But after awhile it starts to wear you down. The constant looking for shelter to get out of inclement weather, being hungry more often than not, the suspicious looks from the police and sometimes being thrown in jail for being a vagrant (happened to me more than once during my travels). So, while I still practice that simple way of living that I learned during my homeless years, I really do appreciate having someplace (and someone) to come home to everyday, having a roof over my head when it's nasty outside and the knowledge that I have food when I want it.

 

[Orja]

Could I do it illegally and take a plane? Or is there too much to go through legal wise with airports and citizenship/immigration and all that?

Now, I'm not an expert on international travel. I've only lived in one other country and visited a scant few others. However, I have come to understand that the Japanese government is not fond of people without "papers". I have heard of people being detained for quite some time over rather minor issues. I understand the frustration. "I wanna walk the earth like it is mine and so does everyone in our fun-loving tribe. C'mon man, is that real[ly] so much to ask from all these goddamn Nazi-feudals?"
..sorry..
But unless you can settle for finding Zen in a Japanese detainment cell, I would suggest you get at least a proper tourists' visa ahead of time.

 

[Words]

It's not impossible to do it illegally, methinks. My family has a long history of travelling illegally, through boat rides and such. Airports are stricter, I guess. I'd imagine it'd be difficult if you're coming from the U.S. though. You could try sneaking into a cargo ship or something(to a poor or lax area/province/region near Japan then boatride to Japan) , but I don't really have the experience to suggest.

 

[Cognisant]

I think you're missing the point entirely.

The exact quote eludes me but it's something like:
Before enlightenment, chop wood & get water; after enlightenment, chop wood & get water.

Basically work is essential to life and it is a wise man who lives for his work instead of merely working to live, because no matter where you go or what you do living will require you to do some kind of work, even if it's just scavenging like an animal, so if you want to live happily you have to either find some kind of work you enjoy or learn to enjoy the work you’re doing.

I bet if you go to Japan a Zen master will tell you exactly the same thing, or if he's the shrewd sort he will ask you to attend his weekly meditation classes, which won't be free.

 

[snafupants]

I think you're missing the point entirely.

The exact quote eludes me but it's something like:
Before enlightenment, chop wood & get water; after enlightenment, chop wood & get water.

Basically work is essential to life and it is a wise man who lives for his work instead of merely working to live, because no matter where you go or what you do living will require you to do some kind of work, even if it's just scavenging like an animal, so if you want to live happily you have to either find some kind of work you enjoy or learn to enjoy the work you’re doing.

I bet if you go to Japan a Zen master will tell you exactly the same thing, or if he's the shrewd sort he will ask you to attend his weekly meditation classes, which won't be free.

That's a cringe-inducing non-sequitur. You could just as glibly say that no matter where you go or what you do living will require urinating. That would make as much sense provided the context. There's also the reality that not everyone chooses their ilk of work. I agree with your closing point, however, that alternative religions boil down to an indigence-creating shell game.

 

[BigApplePi]

You could just as glibly say that no matter where you go or what you do living will require urinating.

If I'm going to have to put up with relieving myself urinating I might as well get used to it and try to enjoy it.

 

[Cognisant]

That's a cringe-inducing non-sequitur. You could just as glibly say that no matter where you go or what you do living will require urinating.

Indeed I could, because it's true.

There's also the reality that not everyone chooses their ilk of work.

I don't think joesmelley was born into slavery, and sure perhaps he's not qualified to be a playboy billionaire industrialist, but neither am I and I can live with that... well I try.

 

[Dapper Dan]

Indeed I could, because it's true.

I don't think you understand. You're saying that this is true:
"Basically urinating is essential to life and it is a wise man who lives for his urination instead of merely urinating to live, because no matter where you go or what you do living will require you to urinate in some way ."

 

[Cognisant]

Yeah

If I'm going to have to put up with relieving myself urinating I might as well get used to it and try to enjoy it.

Honestly who dosen't enjoy a good wizz?

Have you ever pissed of the edge of a cliff?
In a bottle? Over your shoulder? Or written your name in the snow?

Penis envy is a real, but we're the lucky ones, so why not enjoy it?