Holding on.

[Lydia]

Was not sure which section to post this, but since it is something psychological. I thought this will fit it best. I feel utterly bogged down these days, after having to go through 'Clinical Depression' from such a young age (14), putting up with unnecassary/petty school problems and stepping out with bad grades. It had me left with no choice, but to cope for 2 years. After leaving school, I have obviously come to the conclusion that it is not just my depression and school life that has me down. I apparently live in an environment where there is an on-going and repititive cycle, I will address it as something 'disfunctional'. Happening in my house.

I was fearful to take my biggest and firstest step to the counsellor. As you would probably know, by research that clinical depression is something that plays around with the cognitions and therefore a person cannot function well by thoughts and emotions. In order to make first step, is to use your own action and follow your instinctual behavior. But in that case, using your own action/thought/mind/instincts is not simple, clinical depression detroys all of those normalities which are the main parts to your inner functions. It eliminates what once didn't matter to you, but maintains you for the rest of your life. I would probably be in a war of tug right now, and would compare that to clinical depression muchly. Only difference would be that not in a lifetime or any sooner would any side dominate the game.

Though in process of coping, I did somehow manage to reach out to the GP. Who had arranged an appointment with me to a counsellor. Would you be interested to know what happened next?! Meh... she had actually triggered it, in silly assumptions and conclusions that I am just miserable. In words to that I had sensed of that clinical depression is harder than it already is internally. As externally the individual themself knows how mentally painful it is and physically exhausting it gets. But by the state of their external drive they may fluctuate in emotions and therefore look 'perfectly' normal for one to see.

Over these past few years I have been my own mind therapist. As I have been researching on human psychology/behavior/law/philosophy and so much more. I had also been interested in the brain, that would come beneath neurology. Besides that I had made excellent analyses about the psychological particles in our head, which determines the mind and ones behavior in everyday life. I guess I have a better understanding now - how, why, where, when and from the clinical depression is rooted, how it was triggered and why it is so chronically diseaseful, but yet so hidden and lost in an individual.

I had a conversation with a member of my house, who had also happen to face Clinical depression. We had both come down to the result that, 'Clinical depression could well be and/or is one of the worstest thing that could happen in a human mind'. Ofcourse there are countless of other diseases that do people unjust. But a clinical depression is something that could take place even at time of those diseases. It is the torture of the brain, but left untold. Immensely.

After all this, I could honestly say that I am very exhausted. Both mentally and physically. Holding on seems like the only way, but it is the hardest to do, also.

 

[Moocow]

Firstly, talking to other people with depression and coming to the conclusion that it is the worst experience sounds like slightly contorted self pity, the attitudes which help maintain a depressed state. You may want to withhold coming to conclusions when you are very depressed because they will often be very biased, idealistic, and self-sabotaging by nature.
Depression is hardly the worst thing that can happen to a human mind. Believe me, there are psychotic states of immense suffering and fear that if you experienced would make you wish you could just be depressed.

That being said, I believe that depression without an obvious cause may come down to biological factors that are being overlooked.

-Do you get exercise? How much, how often, and how vigorous is it?

-Are you eating too much salt and sugar? Both can dramatically degrade mood if not well balanced.

-Do you consume caffeine? It increases anxiety in some people such as myself and the crash often leads to prolonged periods of irritation and depression.

-Have you tried meditation? Depression sets the mind in a self-reinforcing feedback loop which can be broken with sheer discipline. Learning to meditate may help you use discipline to halt your compulsive habits (that includes maladaptive modes of thinking), relax your body, and gain confidence about your own cognitive states. I can not recommend this practice enough.
Meditation may help you become more aware of your own cognitive habits and their long term impact, along with solutions to them.

There are also cognitive elements that can help greatly, especially if the repetition bothers you:

-How many hobbies do you have? How diverse are they?

-What skills have you invested time and effort into?

-Both of the above are necessary to know, what can you create? Creative pursuits will help give you both satisfaction about your capacities and a way to reach out to others. Art can be helpful way to explore talking to, and about, yourself in more meaningful ways. I have never once felt depressed while painting a picture, so I paint whenever I can.

-How diverse is your social sphere? Are you getting opinions that reinforce the attitudes you have when you're depressed, or does someone challenge you on them?


A valuable lesson I've learned over time is that the personal impact of philosophies, attitudes, beliefs, etc. such as nihilism or even existentialism may be little more than rationalizations of biological cycles which aren't so obvious and must be improved by other means. An example is feeling and thinking in a nihilistic manner one day, then getting the proper nourishment and exercise, only then concluding I will make of my life what I want it to be.

So in the same way depression creates a self-sabotaging cycle of illness, discipline and awareness can create a positive cycle of growth. But remember, always take a break when you need one too...

I hope this hasn't come off as presumptuous. I realize this post is sort of bombarding you with questions and suggestions, but depression is a total structural imbalance of sorts, and there are so many places to start from. This is all assuming there isn't a very obvious, external cause, in which case none of us can help without knowing what that might be.

 

[Lydia]

Firstly, talking to other people with depression and coming to the conclusion that it is the worst experience sounds like slightly contorted self pity, the attitudes which help maintain a depressed state. You may want to withhold coming to conclusions when you are very depressed because they will often be very biased, idealistic, and self-sabotaging by nature.
Depression is hardly the worst thing that can happen to a human mind. Believe me, there are psychotic states of immense suffering and fear that if you experienced would make you wish you could just be depressed.

That being said, I believe that depression without an obvious cause may come down to biological factors that are being overlooked.

Besides all those 'bombarded' questions. I am mainly eager to target this bit of your response. I do not deny the fact that in a position where one is suffering, it is common to come to conclusions.

Having consider this possibility, it is also essential that you do not miss out the opposite perspective. Of which, some people do because they think it is mature and open-minded.

In fact, if you read my thread more closely, than you already did. You have noticed that I have been doing major researching in psychology and the other victim of clinical depression had done also. Therefore we had come together to make a conclusion down to logics and truth. Not by our emotions and personal venting. I must also tell you to re-read the part where I had mentioned about coping for two years, after a long period of time. The mind is far from the moment the depression first began, thus it is easier to examine it from so far. Whether we had said that from a conclusions angle or not. It is facts that Clinical depression 'is' one of the worst things that can happen in human mind. By saying that it does not smallen other diseases. (as I had mentioned in my thread before....and AGAIN you need to re-read).

I am picking up you assume I am talking about just 'depression' in general. Which is misleading, "Clinical" is a condition and with depression it is worse. Ironically I had mentioned something as part of the conclusion, which I did not mention. But you have gave me such a good reason to say it, 'In order to know how clinical depression works, you will have to go through it yourself'. I would forbid that. Personally.

 

[greyskies]

Was not sure which section to post this, but since it is something psychological. I thought this will fit it best. I feel utterly bogged down these days, after having to go through 'Clinical Depression' from such a young age (14), putting up with unnecassary/petty school problems and stepping out with bad grades. It had me left with no choice, but to cope for 2 years. After leaving school, I have obviously come to the conclusion that it is not just my depression and school life that has me down. I apparently live in an environment where there is an on-going and repititive cycle, I will address it as something 'disfunctional'. Happening in my house.

I was fearful to take my biggest and firstest step to the counsellor. As you would probably know, by research that clinical depression is something that plays around with the cognitions and therefore a person cannot function well by thoughts and emotions. In order to make first step, is to use your own action and follow your instinctual behavior. But in that case, using your own action/thought/mind/instincts is not simple, clinical depression detroys all of those normalities which are the main parts to your inner functions. It eliminates what once didn't matter to you, but maintains you for the rest of your life. I would probably be in a war of tug right now, and would compare that to clinical depression muchly. Only difference would be that not in a lifetime or any sooner would any side dominate the game.

Though in process of coping, I did somehow manage to reach out to the GP. Who had arranged an appointment with me to a counsellor. Would you be interested to know what happened next?! Meh... she had actually triggered it, in silly assumptions and conclusions that I am just miserable. In words to that I had sensed of that clinical depression is harder than it already is internally. As externally the individual themself knows how mentally painful it is and physically exhausting it gets. But by the state of their external drive they may fluctuate in emotions and therefore look 'perfectly' normal for one to see.

Over these past few years I have been my own mind therapist. As I have been researching on human psychology/behavior/law/philosophy and so much more. I had also been interested in the brain, that would come beneath neurology. Besides that I had made excellent analyses about the psychological particles in our head, which determines the mind and ones behavior in everyday life. I guess I have a better understanding now - how, why, where, when and from the clinical depression is rooted, how it was triggered and why it is so chronically diseaseful, but yet so hidden and lost in an individual.

I had a conversation with a member of my house, who had also happen to face Clinical depression. We had both come down to the result that, 'Clinical depression could well be and/or is one of the worstest thing that could happen in a human mind'. Ofcourse there are countless of other diseases that do people unjust. But a clinical depression is something that could take place even at time of those diseases. It is the torture of the brain, but left untold. Immensely.

After all this, I could honestly say that I am very exhausted. Both mentally and physically. Holding on seems like the only way, but it is the hardest to do, also.

According to a couple of lists, I fit the criteria for clinical depression. A friend of mine has also suggested that I am. I don't think I want to admit it just yet, if I were to it would somehow be admitting that the problem is beyond my control which it actually might be, yet for some reason I am very resistant to seeking out help from others in this area. I think reaching out was a pretty courageous thing to do, and if you can do that, I believe you can beat this thing.

I also find Moo's assertion about the 'rationalization of biological cycles' particularly intriguing as I have come to wonder that myself, if the problems I am having and horrible moods have to do with dissatisfaction with my life or are merely a result of poor physical upkeep. I have concluded that they are a mixture of both, but the days where I have worked out and meditated have been vastly superior in terms of psychological outlook and emotional stability than without it. I can still feel 'the weight' of my problems, but I have the energy drive and outlook to do something about it in those days. Prior to getting in this condition, I would have had it naturally and wouldn't have needed to focus on physicality so much - but I've found it to work well as a balancing act of sorts, means to an end, etc.

The main thing is taking action consistently. Physical activity boosts certain brain chemicals (as you probably already know). It takes maybe about 15 minutes of exercise to be set for a whole day, at least that's what I have read and what works for me. I keep trying to remind myself that depression isn't something that can be beaten by the mind or rationalized away. Sometimes all it takes is having that energy to create the snowball effect to change your circumstances. Sustaining that over a period of time and being proactive throughout it would almost surely guarantee improvement - the times I have been able to slightly prolong it have really been something. Still a work in progress though :P

 

[HDINTP]

You should just take a rest when needed. As i was reading about that i thought that i had it too but it was probably caused by overthinging that. There is no need to be depressed anyway. You said you are physicaly exhausted too so maybe you should start to play some kind of sport then you would maybe get accustomed. I know it is not classical depletion but it will help. I can´t belive i am going to say that but you are thinking too much about that.

 

[Moocow]

Besides all those 'bombarded' questions. I am mainly eager to target this bit of your response. I do not deny the fact that in a position where one is suffering, it is common to come to conclusions.

Having consider this possibility, it is also essential that you do not miss out the opposite perspective. Of which, some people do because they think it is mature and open-minded.

In fact, if you read my thread more closely, than you already did. You have noticed that I have been doing major researching in psychology and the other victim of clinical depression had done also. Therefore we had come together to make a conclusion down to logics and truth. Not by our emotions and personal venting. I must also tell you to re-read the part where I had mentioned about coping for two years, after a long period of time. The mind is far from the moment the depression first began, thus it is easier to examine it from so far. Whether we had said that from a conclusions angle or not. It is facts that Clinical depression 'is' one of the worst things that can happen in human mind. By saying that it does not smallen other diseases. (as I had mentioned in my thread before....and AGAIN you need to re-read).

I am picking up you assume I am talking about just 'depression' in general. Which is misleading, "Clinical" is a condition and with depression it is worse. Ironically I had mentioned something as part of the conclusion, which I did not mention. But you have gave me such a good reason to say it, 'In order to know how clinical depression works, you will have to go through it yourself'. I would forbid that. Personally.

I did not misread, except perhaps mistakenly assuming the thread was asking for something which it apparently isn't.
FYI I've experienced "clinical" depression as well and studied psychology as well (if you're looking for numbers, I suffered for six years and studied psychology and neuroscience for the past 6. Neurotransmitters are not necessarily the only or best thing to consider with cognitions) and everything I posted comes from first hand experience of the long process of narrowing down the causes.

Your original post was very vague, and I attempted to reply the best I could with limited information. You seem to think I'll immediately give you the benefit of the doubt in all cases, which is a very entitled attitude to have if you're seriously looking for help.
If you're going to just ignore my considerations then I apologize for wasting both our time.

Or were you looking for someone to simply agree with you that depression is one of the worst things? And what is the purpose in that?
I agree that it's terrible and debilitating, but I have experienced worse and learned of others that live with worse. I don't even see this as being an important point of the topic, and if your argument here is that "Yes it is really bad" then you have my sympathy. My point is that it doesn't do you any good to think of it that way.

I suppose I should have simply asked, what is your purpose for this thread?

 

[Da Blob]

Personally, I think that changing one's environment may be the key to improving one's state of mind. After all "Garbage In, Garbage Out" is a process difficult to avoid and those who are not depressed in a depressing environment are finding methods to avoid responding to depressing stimuli. How does one change the environment? By changing one's system of POVs (see signature below)

One factor that is a variable easy to manipulate is the type of music one listens to. It is humorous/sad that so many who complain about depression still choose to listen to depressing music with depressing lyrics. There are types of music that are technically depressant and conversely, there is music that is uplifting.

Become an Agent of Change, empower one's Self to Change

Change one thing at a time, by changing how one sees that one thing

Be New / Be Now

 

[EditorOne]

The reason people benefit from "outside" counseling is implicit in your description of how clinical depression works: It affects your processing functions. Therefore, speaking coldly, you are in no position to measure whether your ability to self-research and self-assess is producing valid conclusions.

A reminder to you, also, that you are posting on an INTP forum, where you can expect people to be blunt. But the bluntness comes without mean-spirited overtones. So you might not want to be defensive; no one wishes you harm or misery.

I go along with all the "garbage in, garbage out" suggestions you got. Break all your cycles and patterns, fill your inputs with new experiences, and see if you can't get enough momentum to fling yourself out of this bad orbit. Trying to deal with it completely inside your head: You're choosing an environment filled with ghosts, dust-covered furniture, dry old ideas. People can think themselves out of some things; I'm pretty sure clinical depression isn't one of them.

Finally, what's with the conclusion that only those who have this can understand it? Excuse me, but two points: Who says those responding haven't experienced it, and, secondly, why do you believe you must experience it to understand? Is it something your condition itself is leading you to conclude? I grasp that expressing yourself on this forum is not comfortable for you or easy for you to do and clarity may suffer, but you might want to read that part of your post back to yourself and see if it might not come across as oddly self-serving: "Only I know what I'm going through therefore only I can fix it." That's rationalization in servitude to a personality aspect, isn't it?

 

[warryer]

YOU are in some kind of cyclical self fulfilling prophecy whirlpool vortex. You WILL most likely read these words and GET the impression that I am full of shit. I know BETTER than you think. You see I have spent many years IN a depressive funk. There was a good period of TIME in which I would mope around because some girl was playing puppeteer with me.

I would get into these dark moods over something as simple as making my bed. Making my bed? Yep, why should I make my bed if I'm the only one who will see it and I'm just going to go mess it up and make it again tomorrow? Read: I didn't care enough about myself that I should give myself even the smallest pleasure of getting the crawl into a freshly made bed. (I still don't make my bed but, this is because the pleasure it gives does NOT outweigh the effort it takes)

BUT eventually I did get out of IT. I drastically altered my lifestyle. I lived with my parents over the summer one year. They have a small farm which I had to TAKE part in the daily operations. It involved me going to bed a 9pm and waking up at 6. Some days I would WORK so hard that I would go to bed at 7pm.

I didn't have time to feel bad for myself. What I did start to see was fruits of my labor. This is exactly what I needed to get out of the funk. (It was only the first part though). I had a schedule and responsibilities imposed on me. I realized in this time that all these negative thoughts could be done away with by choosing not to let the negativity take its hold on me.This realization did not happen overnight but, it was worth all the effort of getting there.

 

[Awaken]

PEARL JAM - Hold On - YouTube