Feeling

[ckm]

I'll start this off with an anecdote.

Yesterday my father was bringing me home from a party in town (it was morning - I had stayed the night). He doesn't live with my sister, mother and I. He's an alcoholic and recently got out of rehabilitation. He's doing well but he decided not to rush things and stay where he was living for the time being. He spent Christmas with us though, and I recall him asking me how I felt about having him around.

I said, "well, it's weird obviously, like it's a change but we've never had a Christmas with only the three of us", or words to that effect. What I mean to say is that what I said was utter horse shit. I realised this soon after I said it and it began to dawn on me that I had no idea how I felt about having him around. Still don't.

This made me aware that when someone asks me how I feel, all I do is figure what kind of response is suitable (here it was obvious that my response had to bee positive; on the other hand when my mother asked me the same question the day before, I was (uncosciously?) aware that she was looking for a more "heartfelt" response, and I tapered my answer to suit just that, again something I realise in hindsight). I think (irony!) that I have been doing this for a very long time, and as a result am completely at odds with my personal reaction to situations (I'm not made of stone - I do experience feelings, as intense sensations, but not at will).

It seemed as if this was my Ti/Si overpowering the "feeling" I was supposed to experience. On the other hand, this could be Fe; as mypersonalityinfo.com summarizes it:

the Extraverted Feeling function allows a person to adjust their behavior to the needs of others.

Needless to say, I'm confused (a more or less permanent state due to xNxP).

I understand that feeling is essential to my growth as an INTP, however I think/feel that Fe brings out my absolute worst. I strongly dislike it.

For instance, When I meet people for the first time, (what is assumedly) my Fe makes me smile, be appropriate and welcoming. Even though I do this, I feel extremely uncomfortable engaging in such formalities. It feels irrelevant, or fake, or whatever you want to call it.

Also, social gatherings that involve people with whom I am not very familiar evokes excessively unpleasant sensations/feelings/whatevers at the face of possible (in my eyes, probable) negative evaluation or reception. When I do engage with people (in situations where I don't find someone I relate to well, in which case we engage in deep conversation, and I feel at home), I feel like a fake, a fraud, behind this mask that is shaping me according to "social norms".

This may be my way of "blaming" something - pinning everything "negative" on to Fe, but these do seem to stem from it, and my distaste towards it.



I'm wondering if you have any comments, or have experienced anything similar to this. I'm aware of the lack of "definiteness" to this post, so I'm not sure what I'm asking for in terms of responses.

 

[Starfruit M.E.]

If you read the post on what we do when people die,... almost all of us are guilty or pretending to feel something for the sake of the situation, when we don't.
I tried being "real" and not putting on emotions, but that didn't work out too well because people thought I was slightly rude, and very depressed.
In some situations you could admit that you don't know how you feel about it, and that you'll let them know when you do. People are usually fine with that. In other situations, it might be good to just say general things... like if someone wants a comment on their hair, and they usually look decent to you, you can always say "Oh, you always look beautiful, you know that!" and give them a hug instead of directly commenting. Then later if you figure it out and you like it, you can always add "I really do like your hair like that. Who did you have do it?". Things like that. So you don't have to lie, and you can present the correct emotion. Another example...
If someone dies, and you can't honestly say you're sad, that you can't move on, or maybe you can't even say that you'll miss them, you can instead focus on "We had such good times together" or other memories or truths appropriate to the situation or question. It may sound cheesy, but you could even run through scenarios ahead of time and practice appropriate responses that do this.
It also helps, if you want to sound sincere, to smile and touch the other person as you make these comments, so that they understand what you mean: that you care. It matters less what you say, and more the way you say it.

 

[Trebuchet]

I certainly know what you are talking about, as I do exactly the same thing, tailoring my responses to what will work best for the other person.

The situation with your family is obviously difficult and painful, and just as obviously you were trying to make the best of things and be as supportive of your family as possible. You might well have some ambivalent feelings about your dad being home at Christmas, so that the things you said about how you felt were all true, but none of them was complete.

As you say, you do have feelings (as do we all) but I can't imagine they are simple or easy to analyze right now. Maybe you don't know how you feel, but that doesn't mean the feelings don't exist. I would speculate that one of the things you felt was a duty to your family, and a desire to please them. You might want to restore whatever you consider "normal" or just get the situation a little more stable. You might feel like an honest reaction would be a betrayal of one or more family members. You might feel a little threatened by the situation, and be trying to bury your feelings so you can handle things in your own way.

Obviously, all of this is me making wild guesses. I have no idea how you really feel. I haven't walked in your shoes, and I am not trying to say these things are how you feel. My only real guess is that you feel overwhelmed and confused, because I sure would. Sometimes it takes me months or even years to fully understand how I feel about something, so I hope you will give yourself time.

As for the social interaction at parties, I know about that too. I also feel like a total fraud, making stupid chit-chat with people I would never pick as friends, trying to talk about neutral things in order to fill up the time until the party is over. I have concluded that the feeling of being fake is both true and not true. Of course I say things I don't mean, and display feelings I don't have.

But for many personality types, that is merely appropriate behavior, and is not meant to fool anyone. It is socially correct, convinces others that you have good judgment, and helps them trust you. It isn't that different from wearing a suit to an interview. To stop feeling like a fake, I had to stop thinking of a party where I didn't know anyone as a place to have fun, and start thinking of it as a social duty that merely needed to be handled successfully and with a minimum of unpleasantness. I can be my true self with my true friends.

Anyway, it sounds like you are having a bit of a rough time, so I wish you good luck.

 

[ckm]

Thanks for the responses.

Melody:

What bothers me is that I feel like a liar, or I'm compromising myself or something if I try to appear sincere. At the same time, I don't want to say what I actually think because I tend to be very vulnerable to other people's opinions, so I'm afraid of upsetting them. This leads to great conflict within me.

Admitting that I don't know how I feel seems like a good idea to me though.


Edit:

Trebuchet:

I agree with your description of my actions as a "duty" very much. Your theories all seem pretty relevant and possible, which leads to ambivalence, as you said. "Ambivalence" puts a word to how I feel most of the time (I had never identified it until you mentioned it), as I don't feel strongly about anything and have very conflicting thought processes (making up my mind just isn't possible for me, to be honest).

You said, "[it] convinces others that you have good judgement" - this interests me. Everyone seems to be rather obsessed with judging others and situations. I know this is pretty irrelevant, but I usually use no judgement when approaching things; I merely collect information and lay it down, speculating possible conclusions (or judgements) but making none for definite. I think you're probably right that judgement is necessary for "normal" social interaction, although (to be extreme) I detest it. Sigh. My psychotherapist has said many times that it is my task to "creatively adjust to a sick society". I guess he's right.

Thanks for your support, although I'm tempted to dismiss my situation as trivial sometimes.

 

[Starfruit M.E.]

What bothers me is that I feel like a liar, or I'm compromising myself or something if I try to appear sincere. At the same time, I don't want to say what I actually think because I tend to be very vulnerable to other people's opinions, so I'm afraid of upsetting them. This leads to great conflict within me.

Not wanting to say what you actually think is much different than not knowing what you think. If you don't know, I suggest saying what you do know, as I was saying above, and letting them know you care by how you say it. But if you do know, and don't want to say it, it's not the same, and then it would be a lie. I don't really know how I can help you there. Sorry!

 

[Trebuchet]

You said, "[it] convinces others that you have good judgement" - this interests me. Everyone seems to be rather obsessed with judging others and situations. .... My psychotherapist has said many times that it is my task to "creatively adjust to a sick society". I guess he's right.

I guess he is. Yes, everyone is obsessed with judging others and situations. Exactly. You aren't interested in that, but remember that xNxP, as you describe yourself, is a small minority.

The xSxJ types, a larger population, have totally different priorities, different approaches to problems, and different things that make them comfortable. A lot of them are concerned with maintaining the social order, so when you act the way they expect, they feel comfortable and happy around you.

I think it is okay to conform a little to make others feel more comfortable, and it isn't fake. It is kind. I also think it is okay to be yourself to make yourself feel more comfortable, and it isn't rude. The trick is to find the balance. I don't know how old you are, but at 41 I am still working hard on that. It is only in the last year I realized that I was allowed to be myself, without apologizing for it. And I am not good at it.

Thanks for your support, although I'm tempted to dismiss my situation as trivial sometimes.

Your situation isn't trivial. It is your actual life, right now. By definition, trivial things don't have great consequences, so they are easy to solve.

 

[checkplus]

The assumption I've always employed in my speech is that when someone enters into a conversation, they want something. It may be to pass time, it may be for you to agree with them, it may be to ask a question. If you know what the other person wants, you can take control of the conversation. This isn't the easiest thing to do, but it gives you respect from many of the types. Holding your own in a conversation you have no interest in can be a very useful skill. You can often steer the conversation into a direction you do have interested in, or even get something you want from the other person or people (usually just an answer to a question). Selfishness is often expected from you in a social situation, and, in small doses, can allow you a great deal of trust.

 

[ckm]

Not wanting to say what you actually think is much different than not knowing what you think. If you don't know, I suggest saying what you do know, as I was saying above, and letting them know you care by how you say it. But if you do know, and don't want to say it, it's not the same, and then it would be a lie. I don't really know how I can help you there. Sorry!

Don't worry, I don't think there is an exact answer to be honest.

I guess he is. Yes, everyone is obsessed with judging others and situations. Exactly. You aren't interested in that, but remember that xNxP, as you describe yourself, is a small minority.

The xSxJ types, a larger population, have totally different priorities, different approaches to problems, and different things that make them comfortable. A lot of them are concerned with maintaining the social order, so when you act the way they expect, they feel comfortable and happy around you.

Good point. At the risk of sounding obnoxious, I feel at a different wavelength to that of my peers; however that is not uncommon among, well, anyone. We all want to be special in some way or other, right? Even those SJ conformists (to generalise) feel a pull like this in some way or other. I think keeping in mind that most of the people I interact with have different values will be beneficial. Thanks!

I think it is okay to conform a little to make others feel more comfortable, and it isn't fake. It is kind. I also think it is okay to be yourself to make yourself feel more comfortable, and it isn't rude. The trick is to find the balance. I don't know how old you are, but at 41 I am still working hard on that. It is only in the last year I realized that I was allowed to be myself, without apologizing for it. And I am not good at it.

I agree again. Thanks for the insight. The "middle way" is the best way (to rip off my psychotherapist again), that had sunk into the back of my head until I read this. I'm seventeen by the way, and I forget how lucky I am for being "aware" sometimes (again, potentially obnoxious, and something I will probably take back in a year (convinced that I'm truly clued in then), and take that back the next year, and so on).

Your situation isn't trivial. It is your actual life, right now. By definition, trivial things don't have great consequences, so they are easy to solve.

Yes, I suppose so (very INTPish to be referring to definitions if I may mention! (Not that that's a bad thing...I do it compulsively. (Not that my doing it compulsively makes it not bad either.)))

Sheesh...triple brackets. I'm losing it.

The assumption I've always employed in my speech is that when someone enters into a conversation, they want something. It may be to pass time, it may be for you to agree with them, it may be to ask a question. If you know what the other person wants, you can take control of the conversation. This isn't the easiest thing to do, but it gives you respect from many of the types. Holding your own in a conversation you have no interest in can be a very useful skill. You can often steer the conversation into a direction you do have interested in, or even get something you want from the other person or people (usually just an answer to a question). Selfishness is often expected from you in a social situation, and, in small doses, can allow you a great deal of trust.

Hmm, quite possible. And then when they seem to lose interest you (me), you (I) have failed to give them what they want. Cue humiliation etc etc. I tend to think I'm reasonably good at reading people, but in social situations I'm usually too intimidated by the people surrounding me to attempt this. It's something I need to overcome I suppose. I'll practise it next time I'm socialising.

 

[Trebuchet]

Yes, I suppose so (very INTPish to be referring to definitions if I may mention! (Not that that's a bad thing...I do it compulsively. (Not that my doing it compulsively makes it not bad either.)))

Sheesh...triple brackets. I'm losing it.

I love the brackets. I don't think you are obnoxious. And yes, very INTP-ish to use definitions, but I am trying not to apologize for being me, so I won't.

 

[Ermine]

Yep. Story of my life. For immediate responses, I almost always just tell them what they want to hear because nothing else comes to mind. However, with people who know that I'm emotionally immature and "slow", I'll tell them to give me a minute to figure it out.

 

[EditorOne]

Or take it to "more familiar ground", for you, anyway, especially in situations like the one with your father: "I don't actually know how I feel, but here's what I think," followed by your analysis, which might be something like "if this is what you need to do to be able to get back to us permanently, then it's the right thing to do," or some other option.

 

[cheese]

Your situation isn't trivial. It is your actual life, right now.

I really like this. You could argue certain situations in life are trivial relative to the rest of that life, and of course the standard argument is pretty compelling (trivial relative to everyone else's life) but I still like it. Striking a balance is very difficult, in most things, and in reaching arduously for perspective we often lose it. This is useful for bringing that back, I think.