Failed my Defence Force interview today

[dickmojo]

Hi all, new here, kinda shattered and confused. I was trying to get into the Army to become an Officer. Why? Do I like shouting and shooting and marching? No. But I really love military strategy. It enthralls me, always has since I learned to read Military History books at about age 8. But I was rejected because I "haven't had any leadership experience in a formal work setting".

Yeah, true. They were only looking for ENTJ-type personalities I think. Anyone who isn't the bossing around type is instantly dismissed, no matter how brilliant a thinker and strategist they might be. Probably for the best though, I just know how pissed off I would have gotten being nagged and hassled over every single minor thing, every waking hour of the day while at boot camp, and leading a very regimented and regular lifestyle everyday for years. I probably don't mind too much about getting rejected after all.

But I'm just bored with my current career. I do acupuncture and massage, and while its good being a sole trader and being able to operate independently, you have no idea how tedious it becomes having to see a constant stream of people coming in to your office and complaining about something, and expecting you to make it all better for them. Yes I can make some things better for some people, but the whole process is tiresome. I only learned acupuncture in the first place because the theory of Traditional Chinese Medicine was so novel and unconventional to me, like learning a whole new mode of cognition. I fell in love with the lore and theory, but I never wanted to actually be an acupuncturist in practice...

But now I feel trapped, I've been a slack bludger for literally ever, and now I'm 30 and I don't have anything to show for it, no house no car no career, so if I don't use my Acupuncture degree I have literally wasted my entire youth and young manhood. But meanwhile, just running a small little business which bores me to tears is kind of depressing as well.

I'm studying a bit of business administration part-time. I actually dig the finance subjects, they're pretty interesting to me. But only because I like thinking about the different strategies that could be used to accumulate wealth, like what financial instruments to use and how to use them in what scenarios, etc. But I don't have any capital to invest or speculate with any way so its a bit moot.

Somehow I don't think its very easy for INTP-type people to become very wealthy and successful. Am I wrong? How can I become rich and wealthy without having to be bored by tedious work for 12 hours a day?

I have a couple of ideas:
1. Playing in Poker Tournaments for serious $$$~ just sitting back, not saying a word, observing all the behaviours of the opponents around you, calculating and strategizing, swooping in for the kill at exactly the right time. This one would be fun (for a while), poker is mainly skill more than luck.

2. Writing some sort of story or book. I have no idea about what. I don't know how professional authors come up with rivetting plots, and how they manage have many different threads running through the story, and then at the end weave them all together into a coherent and satisfying whole, but it would be worth trying to learn how I suppose.

3. Options trading? Highly leveraged, highly risky. But provides good scope for implementing strategy.

Any other ideas you guys? I'm sorry for posting yet another INTP careers thread, but perhaps this one is a little different to the others, and I do appreciate and respect your input.

Richard~

 

[Enne]

Yeah, true. They were only looking for ENTJ-type personalities I think. Anyone who isn't the bossing around type is instantly dismissed, no matter how brilliant a thinker and strategist they might be. Probably for the best though, I just know how pissed off I would have gotten being nagged and hassled over every single minor thing, every waking hour of the day while at boot camp, and leading a very regimented and regular lifestyle everyday for years. I probably don't mind too much about getting rejected after all.

You don't have the experience.

Also, from what they were looking for, it sounds like you are a poor match.

There is a difference between working scenarios in your head, and working with the mess of variables that real humans, conditions and resources add to a given situation. From what you've posted on your work history, you are not prepared in the least for this line of work. Reading military history is all well and good, but what you have done is collect a database of static images of what happened. Sure you can explain what happened like a student can walk through problems presented clearly in a workbook or academic text. But can you make these decisions and formulate these strategies in real time? That is what they were looking for.

The regimented lifestyle would be good, even for a hard thinker, to understand the nature of battle. Needing to be ready and grounded is something that should be of importance to anyone in the military. It is also hard to ask people to do things that you cannot or refuse to do yourself.

I'm studying a bit of business administration part-time. I actually dig the finance subjects, they're pretty interesting to me. But only because I like thinking about the different strategies that could be used to accumulate wealth, like what financial instruments to use and how to use them in what scenarios, etc. But I don't have any capital to invest or speculate with any way so its a bit moot.

There are still online simulations of stock trading you can join if you want the experience. Again, there is a difference between understanding and manipulating someone else's theory and being able to apply it in practice, change course and work your way out should you be backed into a corner.

Somehow I don't think its very easy for INTP-type people to become very wealthy and successful. Am I wrong? How can I become rich and wealthy without having to be bored by tedious work for 12 hours a day?

I have a couple of ideas:
1. Playing in Poker Tournaments for serious $$$~ just sitting back, not saying a word, observing all the behaviours of the opponents around you, calculating and strategizing, swooping in for the kill at exactly the right time. This one would be fun (for a while), poker is mainly skill more than luck.

2. Writing some sort of story or book. I have no idea about what. I don't know how professional authors come up with rivetting plots, and how they manage have many different threads running through the story, and then at the end weave them all together into a coherent and satisfying whole, but it would be worth trying to learn how I suppose.

3. Options trading? Highly leveraged, highly risky. But provides good scope for implementing strategy.

All of these SOUND like great ideas for getting rich. (BTW: Why do you want to be wealthy? What about yourself do you perceive that could be greatly improved with money?) I'm reading a consistent theme of wanting to be placed in situations that require abilities that you have not yet developed. The need to work the "strategy muscle" and to delve so deeply into such a narrow range of topics also doesn't sound like an INTP to me, but this is your first post, so I could be wrong.

Maybe more self knowledge and allowing yourself to be tested by actual experiences is in order. Your academic background doesn't seem to have much to do with any of these three. Business administration is very, very different from economics and finance.

 

[dickmojo]

You don't have the experience.

Also, from what they were looking for, it sounds like you are a poor match.

Yeah no shit. I'm not disputing their findings or their rationale, they know what they need better than anyone else. But I did a lot of research for my application, and I know for a fact that I ticked every single box, including informal leadership roles, like being Captain of my soccer and netballs teams, etc., so I do think its pedantic to say "because you haven't been a manager at McDonald's or Woolworths (yes this is literally what I was told), you can't be recommended at this time"

There is a difference between working scenarios in your head, and working with the mess of variables that real humans, conditions and resources add to a given situation. From what you've posted on your work history, you are not prepared in the least for this line of work. Reading military history is all well and good, but what you have done is collect a database of static images of what happened. Sure you can explain what happened like a student can walk through problems presented clearly in a workbook or academic text. But can you make these decisions and formulate these strategies in real time? That is what they were looking for.

The regimented lifestyle would be good, even for a hard thinker, to understand the nature of battle. Needing to be ready and grounded is something that should be of importance to anyone in the military. It is also hard to ask people to do things that you cannot or refuse to do yourself.

I was fully prepared to endure my own sense of irritation for the purpose of building my character and becoming a good Officer and Combatant. NO ONE is good at these roles until they are trained to be so, but to limit even just the opportunity to train for these roles to soley people that express strongly ENTJ personality traits seems unnecessarily narrow and short-sighted to me.

There are still online simulations of stock trading you can join if you want the experience. Again, there is a difference between understanding and manipulating someone else's theory and being able to apply it in practice, change course and work your way out should you be backed into a corner.

I have traded CFD's before, but they are too risky for me. I like options because in the worse-case scenario, your losses are capped, but in the best case-scenario, your profits are potentially unlimited. For the same reason I favour Tournament Poker over Cash-Ring Poker Games.

All of these SOUND like great ideas for getting rich. (BTW: Why do you want to be wealthy? What about yourself do you perceive that could be greatly improved with money?) I'm reading a consistent theme of wanting to be placed in situations that require abilities that you have not yet developed. The need to work the "strategy muscle" and to delve so deeply into such a narrow range of topics also doesn't sound like an INTP to me, but this is your first post, so I could be wrong.

Maybe more self knowledge and allowing yourself to be tested by actual experiences is in order. Your academic background doesn't seem to have much to do with any of these three. Business administration is very, very different from economics and finance.

Well Business Administration is just the way they describe the Generic business degree you can do without Majoring in anything specific like Accounting or Marketing or something. Its just the general all-purpose business degree so I have been required to take subjects in economics, law, finance, accounting, marketing, management, logistics, e-commerce and information systems. Its pretty fun I do enjoy it but its just a hobby atm.

According the the MBPI test I'm actually ENTP, but the E/I is very borderline, and from reading the literature I do align more closely with the traits of INTP, at least, that's what everyone who knows me informs me of anyway. But definitely being interested and thinking deeply about strategy, i.e. understanding the underlying mechanisms of how things work and theorising how to manipulate this intrinsic code of operations to one's advantage is an INTP behaviour.

I clearly want to be wealthy because wealth provides freedom and opportunity. Regarding your final sentence, I do actually believe that my self-knowledge is excellent, extremely deep and honest. And my fervent willingness and desire to be tested by experience is genuine and earnest. But thank you for your swift reply, it is kind of you to post your thoughts.

 

[Jackooboy]

Try the air force or the navy? Army is full of brutes. Air force actually wants smart people. Navy is somewhere in the middle-- Hell, you may even go enlisted for a little to see if you like military life and see the world a little.

 

[kantor1003]

I have a couple of ideas:
1. Playing in Poker Tournaments for serious $$$~ just sitting back, not saying a word, observing all the behaviours of the opponents around you, calculating and strategizing, swooping in for the kill at exactly the right time. This one would be fun (for a while), poker is mainly skill more than luck.

It's a lot of work and a huge grind. I'd say better to stick with your current job than trying out poker. You need to work long hours and study a lot, with the additional mental strain of variance, for a pretty average income (if you are a winning player that is).

 

[dickmojo]

Time for a little update guys:~

When I analyse my feelings about failing that interview now looking back, I'm amazed at the massive wave of relief that flooded over me. After poking around on a couple of INTP forums it seems the general consensus is that the military is shit for INTP type ppl. I am really glad I got rejected and I'm sure it was the right decision for everybody.

So I've decided to continue my work in massage/acupuncture therapy, its actually not that bad, I don't really have to talk to the client that much because they usually fall asleep after the first 15 mins. And I really only work 12~15 hours per week as well, so its perfect for a slacker like me.

I've also changed my uni enrollment to a Bachelor of Information Technology majoring in Computer programming. I'm really pumped about it, gonna be learning Java and C++ and I really think it will suit me, because it combines elements like being creative, solving problems, thinking in a relational/correlational way as opposed to a linear/causative way (regarding OOP vs. structured programming), but still being scientific and accurate, all of which are main strengths of mine.

Thanks for your support guys~