ENTJ, INTJ, or INTP?

[Kirsanov]

Well for those wanting to type me first I should say a little bit about myself.

Currently I am a freshman in college studying Russian and will soon add History next year. I have been relatively interested in personality, but frustration last summer led me to disregard it. Although my Psychology 100 class gave me some new found motivation to try to figure out my type. In general I have trouble starting assignments, normally papers, but once I do I become a super machine churning it all out. If you need some writing samples feel free to ask, I have an excerpt from a paper I will include right now to give you some more elements to work on. Furthermore, I think I have it narrowed down to ENTJ, INTJ, or INTP.

I have been told that I am deliberate, decisive, level-headed, persistent, wise, have the power to push through b.s., thoughtful, and sweet (only if you know me very well).

This is the writing sample for a Western Civilization paper focusing on religions influence on politics:

Religion in the Roman Empire focused on the veneration of pagan gods as a civic duty, much like the practices of ancient Greece. Beginning with the reign of Caesar Augustus, emperors transcended plebeians and patricians as divine rulers. To promote unity Augustus encouraged an imperial cult which worshipped him as a god. This worship eventually released Roman emperors from the law and its boundaries. In his explication on The Power of the Roman Emperor, Cassius Dio stated, “For they have been released from the laws, as the very words in Latin declare; that is, they are free from all compulsion of the laws and are bound by none of the written ordinances” (13). Unlike the previous appellations attributed to Augustus which gave him tribunician power, chief priestly power, and militarily command; complete freedom from Roman law marked a grave change from precedents during the Roman Republic. No man may be considered above the law and jury while the republic lasted, yet Caesar Augustus not only consolidated immense power but attained divine immunity from traditional Roman social norms. Therefore the acclamation of Roman emperors from Augustus’s time onward as imperial gods exhibited the influence of polytheistic and pagan religion on a society which for the most part viewed religion as a civic duty without a sense of individuality.


For some negatives:

I can be pretty ruthless in debates sometimes causing me to regret how far I take them later on. This happened when I debated as Karl Marx and attacked my friend who played Gandhi, and when I noticed I wasn't necessarily winning I chose a somewhat effective but illogical approach of ad hominem attacks. Since I am very much like my father, he grew up in poverty and is extremely frugal, I too can very stingy. Once when I had to wait a few minutes too long in line for an Auntie Ann's pretzel I just left because I do not think they deserve my money, my sister pointed out how impatient and stingy that was. Again I am not good at reading people's emotions, but if I am having trouble I will relate my problems if my sisters ask me in a solitary situation. Generally I linger on something showing I am thinking deeply about my feelings which leads them to prod me for information. When it comes to saying an idiom, I always screw them up. I know what they are in my head, but I throw in or substitute a word leading to one massive line of confusion which most people laugh at. Furthermore I am very stubborn in my beliefs just like both of my parents. I don't suck up to people and even though a person has never told me they dislike me, I am sure there was probably a person who did dislike me in high school. In debates I can be very expressive to sway the side of the argument based on how it goes, and sometimes I get a little too passionate.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Have you taken a MBTI test.... They can help.

 

[TriflinThomas]

Just a reminder: INTP and INTJ have none of the same functions.

 

[Analyzer]

what about entp

 

[Teohrn]

You sound xNTJ to me, more likely an INTJ. Not that I'm going to give much of an argument for it. There is not that much to put my fingers on.

 

[own8ge]

Don't let them fool you. You are nothing. You are a ghost.
And if you want us to accurately type you, upload a damn video of yourself talking in the camera.
Oh wait... You are a ghost.

 

[Kirsanov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXoOwbYfvhU&feature=youtu.be

Most people on the intj forum have typed me as intp, but a small faction resists this type. At this point I am removing myself from so much thought due to overload concerning typology.

For people who read incredibly fast, or enjoy long discussions concerning one person's type than three links about typology and myself follow:

(Chronological Order; progression of 4 months)

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/109103-verification-type.html

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/126109-type-confusion.html

http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=94497

 

[Czech Yes or No]

Based off of the video, likely INTP. Almost within the first few frames I saw distinct characteristics of said personality. First off, the quieted, spaced-out words. However, do you act the same when in social situations? Have you changed?

I recently asked the same exact question and ended up with a completely different personality type. You need to look at functions and look at other resources (I ended up using a mixture of socionics and MBTI). Also, use your family to give you accurate answers to the questions, as most people tend to have a romanticized and incorrect perception about themselves.

 

[ElvenVeil]

You are not an INTP.. That typing is wrong. To be more precise, I think your own typing is good, and I do think that you are an ENTJ. I would however be open to a reconsideration of your auxuliary function, meaning that I am open to the ESTJ type. But perhaps I only say that out of being modest, because I do think that you are an ENTJ.

 

[Lordran Nights]

Hi,

I'm not super sure or anything, but I'd say INTJ.

Your definitely not INTP because your too confident in your articulation. Not trying too hard to be friendly.

But you don't look like you're grabbing shit by the bollocks and have the urgency to get things done like a Te lead would do. More cool, calm and collected.

And your not bouncy enough to be a ENTP.

I also have a colleague who I'm 100% sure is INTJ and he does exactly the same gritty teeth thing that you do at a few points in your video.

Those are my reasons.

 

[Kirsanov]

It seems the video causes people to either reject or accept INTP for different reasons...

 

[Czech Yes or No]

Eh, it can be very subjective.

 

[Kirsanov]

Eh, it can be very subjective.

Based on your earlier question, in small groups sometimes I am the dominant speaker. I go through phases of intent listening and then continuous response. When teaching and learning, I enjoy the Socratic method or an Oxford style lecture. I normally stand when I am teaching, and I will pace across the room and make some hand gestures. If I am deep thought while conversing with a family member sometimes I pace about the room. In the spring, summer, and fall I take an hour walk for some thought time, decompression, and a little bit of exercise. Winter is my favorite season due to the white snow and frigid temperatures.

I especially enjoy literature and history, although I am considering a career in regulatory compliance which is a cross between law and ethics. If you want I can make another video about a different subject, or to answer anymore specific questions.

 

[Architect]

Two sides:

INTP: Display cues (a-la Pod'Lair) of the INTP. Spider hands, stoneface, emotion below midline. Interestingly you have almost the same mannerisms and 'look' as an INTP friend of mine, especially around the mouth oddly (she makes the same mouth gestures). Behaviorally (personal history related) there are a lot of INTP interests and characteristics displayed.

INTJ: Not too much buoyancy to your mien which is typical for Ne types (INTP in the secondary), which might indicate more INTJ. There is a little bit there however, could be circumstances. Don't seem super full of humor which is often an INTP trait. A high degree of steadfastness and diligence which is more INTJ.*

No wonder you get typed as either! You display some characteristics of both. Summing up I would say either INTP with a well developed Ti, and less developed or used Ne/Si, or an INTJ. I think there is more Ni than Ne there, along with Se, if pressed INTJ seems somewhat more likely.


Hard to say really though, I wouldn't sweat it though as clearly you are one of those. Give it a few years and the answer should become obvious.

I don't see any ENTJ - don't know what crack they were smoking, whoever suggested that.

 

[Kirsanov]

Two sides:

INTP: Display cues (a-la Pod'Lair) of the INTP. Spider hands, stoneface, emotion below midline. Interestingly you have almost the same mannerisms and 'look' as an INTP friend of mine, especially around the mouth oddly (she makes the same mouth gestures). Behaviorally (personal history related) there are a lot of INTP interests and characteristics displayed.

INTJ: Not too much buoyancy to your mien which is typical for Ne types (INTP in the secondary), which might indicate more INTJ. There is a little bit there however, could be circumstances. Don't seem super full of humor which is often an INTP trait. A high degree of steadfastness and diligence which is more INTJ.*

No wonder you get typed as either! You display some characteristics of both. Summing up I would say either INTP with a well developed Ti, and less developed or used Ne/Si, or an INTJ. I think there is more Ni than Ne there, along with Se, if pressed INTJ seems somewhat more likely.


Hard to say really though, I wouldn't sweat it though as clearly you are one of those. Give it a few years and the answer should become obvious.

I don't see any ENTJ - don't know what crack they were smoking, whoever suggested that.

One of my very good acquaintances that I met in college, I am a freshman, told me he did not expect my debate mode. We were playing mafia which is a card/murder mystery game. I stayed quiet and observed for the vast majority of the time. Then a person accused me of being a mafioso; I rejected their assertion. Finally, I arose from my seat and raised my voice. I was killed by the villagers wrongly, but that was because people do not know my competitive streak in games.

The comment my acquaintance said was: "Grant said 'that kid is very charismatic, I did not expect that' and I was like yeah he has an aura." That was the first time I was told that I had charisma.

But that is all hearsay bullshit. It probably does not help anyways. The other threads have some other information about me.

If it is a debate about what someone has previously stated it takes me a few minutes before I begin. I listen to their ridiculous assertions, and the delay is somewhat akin to starting a computer program. The program launches after a few minutes, and I input the information. Then I decide to jump in, attacking their point of view while making some contrary points with evidence. Once I start debating it becomes non-stop. I am able to listen to their argument, think about their point, and prepare my point all in my head. When I have a chance to respond, I rebut their proposal while strengthening mine. It is completely fluid without major stops. Everything I say, I mean. If it is a formal presentation or debate I will have an outline of my points or argument, but I normally just go from there.

Same thing happens when I write

If you want more information, just ask.

 

[Architect]

If you want more information, just ask.

I don't, that's more than I wanted

Decide for yourself.

 

[Czech Yes or No]

I don't, that's more than I wanted

Decide for yourself.

You really must do so.

In fact, as I mentioned earlier, I was once in a similar situation about myself. However, you will discover that as you venture deeper into to your own mind, that you yourself have answers, not whatever you are seeking from a test. While the MBTI is very useful in allowing users to determine common interests and thoughts, you are what you make yourself to be.

 

[own8ge]

@Analyzer @Teohrn @ElvenVeil @Lordran Nights @Architect
I might make it bigger and more accurate (as ATM I'm quite sure but not yet 100%).
But He is an INTP and here is why.

0:00 - Yin position (No tension in shoulders) = xxxP (Adaptive)
0:03 - Yin gesturing. Awkwardly reaching back to the subject (Subjective Type) = IxxP
0:04 - Hands folded, Subjective (Yin) state = IxxP
0:12 - Ti dominance articulation = Ti > Fe = IxTP
0:20 - Fe articulation = Fe
0:30 - Yin gesturing = xxxP
0:31 - "Jungiann functions" Pi-Fe (Directively looking into Pi, thus connected with Je. The motion and accentuation of the hand gesture states Fe.) = type MUST have Fe conscious
0:31 -> 0:37 - Yin gesturing = xxxP
0:36 = Adds, In the early summer while 'Pi fluent thought' ended. = Literal Worldview = Si

Dancing eyes (NeSi).
Neutralization of the face (Ti).
Aware emotive expression (Emotive expression to Move the environment = Fe).
Natural state Refrainment (Introvert/Subjective)
(You could also see the spider hands if you look for it)

Spoiler

-For my sake, he could also be INTJ. I'm busy atm, but I'll look into it later. hehe! . Meanwhile feel free to disagree with my timestamps.

 

[Kirsanov]

I shall say the main reason INTP has boggled me was from my psychology class. Now I am not sure if the kid received an official test or one of the hokey online quizzes, but I briefly worked with a guy typed as INTP in a group. We had to make a toy for middle school children, he started throwing out worthless idiotic ideas which I rejected. One such idea was a snow fort maker which was little more than a piece of plastic attached to your arm to push snow. I was thinking what the fuck type of idea is this. No one will buy this shit since you can use your arm just as easily. So I told him I did not see a purpose of it, and that you could use your arm with more efficiency. He mentioned snowballs so it was a joint effort; I said snowball maker. While they answered the questions I drew a design for the unit and marked the parts with little notes for explanation. Finally I added in some instructions for those who were to use the product. If he was an INTP than I definitely am not one, almost everything he mentioned was crap with an equivalent already made, no originality.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I shall say the main reason INTP has boggled me was from my psychology class. Now I am not sure if the kid received an official test or one of the hokey online quizzes, but I briefly worked with a guy typed as INTP in a group. We had to make a toy for middle school children, he started throwing out worthless idiotic ideas which I rejected. One such idea was a snow fort maker which was little more than a piece of plastic attached to your arm to push snow. I was thinking what the fuck type of idea is this. No one will buy this shit since you can use your arm just as easily. So I told him I did not see a purpose of it, and that you could use your arm with more efficiency. He mentioned snowballs so it was a joint effort; I said snowball maker. While they answered the questions I drew a design for the unit and marked the parts with little notes for explanation. Finally I added in some instructions for those who were to use the product. If he was an INTP than I definitely am not one, almost everything he mentioned was crap with an equivalent already made, no originality.

Maybe he was a stupid INTP? But I would want a snowball maker/launcher. All that effort removed. Genius!

 

[Kirsanov]

I have further narrowed down the type between INTJ and INTP. There are two people who firmly assert that I am an INFJ. It is only a matter of time until I figure out my true type.

As a note to all, I find Pod' Lair rather cultish so do not expect me to praise their system. I have not found much benefice from them compared to Jungian functions, MBTI, or Socionics.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:

I love my family members, but sometimes I have to leave the conversation when my mother is talking because it takes so long for her to get to the point. It sometimes happens with my father also, but not as much. I think my father may also be an INTP in the grip for the past few years. My sisters and mom are probably feelers. No one in my family really likes personality typing but me. Even I find it a guilty pleasure that I spend way too much time pondering sometimes. Of course the time spent is always during my leisure period, which pisses me off because I have no more time to read afterwards due to homework.

When speaking with others I may reference a sequence or event in a book or movie. Sometimes this gets me in trouble because I have to further explain myself so that the people understand the connection. Most of the time I have to explain which I can tell by the person's expression.

 

[Kirsanov]

Interesting information has arisen. I had my eldest sister and mother take a personality test on behalf of me. Although my mother's analysis was 48% INTP, my eldest sister reported 30% ENTJ and 30% INTJ. This is the site: http://www.25quiz.com/

I should say that I speak about more personal occurrences with my sisters perhaps resulting in a more accurate typing.

Edit: My other sister took the quiz in the same manner resulting in 46% INTJ. This is only another data point to confer. The test is simplistic.

 

[ElvenVeil]

@own8ge

He is difficult to type and there are typically two possible reasons whenever such doubt arise
1) there is something mentally wrong with him, making him more difficult to work with
2) he is a type that you rarely see in his gender and therefore it takes time to understand his type

To say that there is a decent chance of him being INTJ but ENTJ out of the picture is obviously ridiculous, but I will give my reasons why I did not like the INTP typing, though I think it is an understandable conclusion:

starting with his video and visual cues: There were some big problems for me in that video and in relation to the INTP typing. The first being that he shows absolutely no signs of Ne (which even for an under developed person should seem odd), his eyes always fixated on the camera and did not really look away to think (as Ti people so often do) or have that special stare that I often believe Ni Dom to have. The last is related to his progression when he talks or write. He is extremely precise and very goal oriented to the extend that he never leaves the trail to talk about anything else than what he 'is supposed to talk about'

His extreme monotonous voice makes me think that he is uncomfortable or that there might be something wrong with him, and I don't know how to use that in Typing. So what I got from the vid, was a total lack of Ne'ish play (points against INTP) , very fixated on the camera with no apparent need to look away to look inwards (points against being either Ni or Ti dom), and his style which does not switch at all, which together with the previous point makes me move towards a Te dom point.
---

That's from the vid, so what about his writing? Writing is so important.. Just like as he talks, his writing is organized and meticulous in the sense that he follows the same extreme goal oriented approach. Furthermore he has a big focus on career and he clearly identifies himself a lot with his success in that field, hence his reference to his own writings. I am not going to call INTPs intellectual slobs but Te is renowned for taking extreme pride in their work. He posts on many fora, and he deals with the whole thing systematic and objective, in the manner that he collects data points to value them 'objectively' from many sources. I personally rarely see INTPs do such a thing, simply because they spend a lot of making up their own internal world, and do not usually deal with data points in the fashion that he does.

Though they are few, I would say that there is a potential point towards Fe inferior, being that the other thing he talks about is how he basically approach feelings.. And I think in normal circumstances I would have gone for Fe, but in I would not call it a stretch to say that it might be a common by-product of F-inferior.

I think he is T dom , and most pointers that he leaves points towards being an extroverted thinker.. But is he intuitive? He might well be, but I am not a 100% sure.. My analysis of him is solely based on what functions I believe I see, but as I say in the beginning he is difficult. But go for INTP and you will very likely be wrong about his type.

 

[Kirsanov]

@ElvenVeil

If you need another video, I can make one.

 

[ElvenVeil]

I would not mind seeing another video. Like yourself I have little patience with Pod-lair typing; Not that it is wrong to say that types do show visual tells (I think most observations would point towards that), but all that hive-mind cult thing is ridiculous.

But I am getting more and more interested in finding out what type you are. I think another video would be fine, though it is my experience that videos become the most relevant if it is you talking to another person. If that is not possible then a video of you talking about something that interests you the most (or a lot). A combination of both would be interesting.

Alternatively, I can tell you about my observations with INTP/INTJ/ENTJ behavior, and ofc move on to all types that could seem relevant. There has never been done any meticulous study on visual signs in MBTI types, so I would if I were you go for the function typings as a primary source and videos as a second opinion really. If you are interested in having a chat with me to find your type, just let me know. Would prefer facebook or msn to avoid all that delay in response

 

[Kirsanov]

Here is the new video. I forgot to mention I always finish my work no matter how involved I am with my interests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_4MoKwfWB8&feature=youtu.be

 

[ElvenVeil]

Te dom .. Conclusions stay the same as before..

I know we keep this discussion both on and off thread now, but I would be interested in hearing people's opinion on the possibility of ESTJ instead of ENTJ, if they agree/see where I am heading.

ENTJ is still the most likely type however. A typing my girlfriend agrees on which is very nice as she is one of the best 'typers' I know : )

 

[Kirsanov]

@ElvenVeil @own8ge

What do you think of this response by a member of the intjforum:




The more details you throw into this, the more confusing this will all be. By the way, he's not new to personality types.

He's satisfied with choosing a personality type based on what other people think, especially <<< KEY

Now we know what cognitive function that is: Fe!

ENFJs and ESFJs are Fe Dom, but Kirsanov puts things together logically, he just wants an more accurate analysis from others, but not necessarily fit in with the group emotionally as his primary motivation.

He wants to be typed and is tired of doing the research for it because he has learned enough.

This leaves out Fe as the first or second cognitive function, and puts Te or Ti in either first or second.

So let's follow the T. How does he explain things and understand things? Yes! In fact, when he describes his surroundings, it's influenced by his ENFJ mother; meaning that his logic is influenced by his Feelings-based decision to listen to his INFLUENTIAL mother. But we already concluded he's not F Dom or Aux, so how is that possible? Well Ts can be logic sensitive when given Ne (hence great understanding of one's environment can also mean one is sensitive to his environment). INTPs and ENTPs both have Ne as either first or second if he's N.

I think we all agreed that he's N (I mean he's pretty analytical). So since he's Ne because he's not F and Ts are sensitive to their environments when given Ne, that means he's either an ENTP or an INTP. (Ne Ti Fe Si) Si comes from remembering how his ENFJ mother thought and taught him (the law, ENTPs Bibles). Fe is what I discussed in the beginning of this post and I think that being in college, kirsanov is developing his Fe (so he comes here and wants to accept anyone's logic), and using his weaker cognitive function is draining so he says, "I have perused your posts and shall allow some time tonight for digestion."

Is this an I needing time to reflect alone, or an E who had enough stimulation and needs to rest on thoughts, alone (ENTPs do this).

FYI, I thought ENTP immediately while reading the first post. Then he concludes he's INTP. We're on track at this point, but he will accept anything at this point. He's tired of guessing what he is because his ENTP ability to understand the questions and lie to change types is being mixed with what his ENFJ mother taught him (Si) about manipulating/influencing ideas and concepts (the ENFJs main "thing" they do).

INTPs DO NOT LIKE this much attention to be labeled. I feel like they go naturally out of their way to be labeled by others (introverted tendencies). An I who does that, would not care so much about the logic and more about the connection with people. An E who does that, is use to connecting with people, but wants some kind of logical conclusion (hence no sarcasm, while an INTP would playfully use sarcasm because they rely on self reflection).

Another point is that he defines law. Oh yeah, isn't that what he wants to be, and doesn't like how INTP was labeled as the unlaw type? This is not a personality thing. This is an ENTP who needs some guidance (or needs his own learning experience) to sort all this stuff that's going on while he develops his Fe (who get lost about their paths often because they tap into others' paths and get mixed up a bit and need refreshing).

I think I've proven he's ENTP. There are other details I don't feel like pointing out.

---------- Post added 01-12-2013 at 02:25 AM ----------

When I say his mother taught him, that can mean when his life taught him, because he's stuck to things he remembers, conventionally with Si. So take mother teaching him as a metaphor to his life events.



http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=94497

 

[Mysty]

Kirsanov,
I am not an expert by any means in this typing thing, but I will tell you that you are definitely not an ENTP. I have recently spent a lot of time on ENTP.org and am familiar with the type. There is no way that you seem even vaguely like any of the ENTP's. you also don't seem INTP.

Now one question I would like to ask is why is everyone so sure that you are N and not S? There is a bit of a misnomer that a lot of people see to decide on N if the person is smart. There are a lot of very smart, very logical S types.

By the way, the MBTi originators were very insistent that typing was done by yourself, not by other people. Use other people's perceptions by all means, but only you know how you actually think. Take the test results from your mother and sisters with a grain of salt.

When I was having similar problems deciding my type, it was suggested I was not a J as if I was I would have decided by now and not taken so long to narrow down the answer! Although you seem to have a lot of J traits. I can see that you could easily be INTJ. But what about ISTJ or even ISTP?

Also, does it really truly matter in the end? Just use the MBTi to better understand yourself, and others. Don't get hung up on which box you perfectly fit into. Besides, within each type, they can be broken into subtypes - this might be the reason others are saying you are not an INTJ (for example) as perhaps you are a less common variant.

There is one thing that makes me immediately think INTJ and that is that you said others take too long to talk!! Despite the fact that you have provided the most long winded explanation of yourself I have ever seen FWIW I think I am ENTP, but the jury is still out

Which INTJ site were you visiting? Was it the one that the compleat idiots guide to INTJ 's. it is rather good! I know it is tongue in cheek, but it is true it is hard not to laugh. Do you identify with any of it? http://blogs.setonhill.edu/MatthewHenderson/2009/01/i_was_standing_beside_his.html

 

[viche]

Would you say that you are more irrational in your thoughts or prone to careful and meticulous analysis? Can you hold a clear static imagine in your mind (INTP) or is your thinking more dynamic (INTJ)?

One sure way of telling INTPs from INTJs for me has been watching for manifestations of person's inferior function. In INTPs inferior is Fe, a feeling function, which shows up in a very different manner from INTJ's inferior Se. Reading through these profiles of inferior functions Form of Inferior do you relate more to that of inferior Fe or Se?

 

[Kirsanov]

Whenever I think about the future it is almost like an imageless image. I do not see the image right in front of me, when I close my eyes I see darkness. Rather through my thoughts I paint the image and see myself in the situation. So I consciously use my thoughts to create the mental image, without seeing it before me per se. It is as if I can slightly compartmentalize reality for future's sake, but I never completely forget or block out all reality. Only once did I ever day dream at which point I did not realize my teacher was speaking to me.

My thoughts and words seem to flow out of me, whether long or short winded. I reach the end goal. But this end goal is often achieved by a guiding question. Without a question or topic there would be no long discussion. I can talk for hours about certain subject and never tire. Overall I have a vast basin of knowledge to draw from that excludes some themes that I detest such as sports. I memorize by repetition, but once memorized it becomes engraved so the words flow from my mouth.

In high school, and I would say in grade school also, I did not speak much for fear of my ideas. For instance I created an analogy of the body fighting off a disease to a besieged castle. Vitamins all had their purpose and were assigned specific roles. Zinc was used as a supplies, while Vitamin D for its relation to bones would relate to the strengthening of castle walls. Just as the central command needs aid, vitamin E lends help to the heart. Fish oils are similar to the oil poured from the gatehouse upon enemies, and vitamin c were the infantrymen.

I am not a great driver, and I am absolutely horrible at directions. Once I know how to get to a place it is based off a few landmarks and knowing when to turn. I still do not know the streets I am necessarily turning onto, I just do it. Normally this takes about three trips to the same location before I do not need the GPS.

Furthermore I had many health problems when I was very young leading to constriction in my ability to walk. I am perfectly healthy now, but back when I was a child I would sit and play with legos or read on my own. I hated going outdoors, but my parents forced me too. For the most part I am respected and can use my influence for the better. On subjects I enjoy, which are many, I exhibit my enthusiasm and go about it in a relaxed approach.

In strategy games I am pretty good at analyzing situations and making the proper move, but I am not a great planner or fantastic commander. I know what to do, I can tell others to do it, but someone may be able to implement it better than I can.

Generally I read two books at the same time because I have a hard time reading more than 100 pages of the same book in one day. I obsess over reading or different things, that is probably how I have such an immense database of facts or connections, especially literary or movie references.

I did not finish the two books I wanted to over break, so I have started another one at school. When I go home for my three day weekend, I will pickup where I left off. I hate skimming because I like to absorb all the information, same thing goes for lectures.

Back in high school I was called anything from genius to mad scientist. The two groups I spoke with the most, although I never associated myself with one in particular, were the semi-drinkers who would party but weren't all about popularity and the non-drinker workaholics, readers, and gamers. A few months ago a contact of mine at the university mentioned a professor in my department who I would be interested in speaking with. Even though he prefaced that this professor was non-linear and an interesting man, the contact said the professor would be a good person to talk to for me.

I will admit to long messages on facebook, and long conversations in real life. One comment that I can most assuredly affirm the validity of was from a teacher a year ago who mentioned to another classmate that I could talk forever about a topic.

Even though I do not like excessive questions, I ask them. Normally questions come from an interest in learning something new since I am incredibly curious. I try to be cordial to others, even those I dislike. My mother taught my family manners in social, dining, and every other situation. I shall admit I still have to go to my sisters for advice on matching my clothes. I have spoken too much.

No one will read this anyway, it is just me writing a stream of consciousness message. My thoughts and writing should be close to similar, since I do not write or think any other way. Again, the words and ideas flow out of me with some sort of structure it falls into itself. I like literature especially for the analysis since I am great at thinking of new ideas that can work in essays for papers about symbolism, theme, plot, you name it. I do not really know my strengths and abilities unfortunately.

If you read all of this you earn a reward for dedication.

 

[ElvenVeil]

@Mysty

I think you ask good quesitons : ) . And you are right, Ne dom is not exactly a fitting typing : p
I do suggest S, as I mostly want him to be a Te type (and I still for the moment stick to Te dom)

But I will be honest, the thing that makes me the most in doubt about him and his type, is that I suspect that he may have some syndrom like Aspergers. And if so then I feel less confident in what I see as functions.

 

[Kirsanov]

@ElvenVeil

I knew someone in high school, a year younger than me, that had Aspergers. Here in the U.S. you have to take some basic medical tests before grade school and high school. I am pretty damn sure I would know if I had Aspergers or some learning disability. Doctors, teachers, and family members deem me mentally sane and stable. If I did have a fricking mental or learning disability I would have told you guys since I know it affects typology. This is one of the key reasons there is debate concerning the Joker or serial killers because, whether real or fictional, they have problems. Which I know I do not have any problems as confirmed not only by myself but teachers, family, relatives, friends, doctors, professors, and acquaintances. I might be a little bit quirky or non linear, but that is it.

And I do not think I would be asked to teach a topic, tutor, or be fantastic at debates if I always drolled in extreme monotone. That may be my basic speech, but when conversing with others my tone will change and I have different facial expressions. In large groups I will look over their heads as if grasping for ideas from all over. Smaller groups I tend to take charge and talk more while allowing others a chance to comment since I enjoy listening to the ideas of others. One on One I listen and comment personally and adjust to the situation. If the person needs some moral or personal support I will give it, but often times I appeal to some sort of logic.

I ask questions and am extremely curious that is how I know so much. Excuse me if that makes you feel like I have a mental problem. By the way, I am a horrible liar. So I can mitigate the effect or my comment about a person, but I cannot outright lie without making it obvious. I can engage in some form of twisting the truth, but my expressions show that I am anxious or not confident if I am not being truthful.





Just in case you were curious for the additional information the user included concerning ENTP:

"Because you remind me of my ENTP friend and the personality part of him (the 50% to 75% accuracy of MBTI) overlaps with you. This means, the way he perceives the world, gets his energy, makes decisions, and organizes his thoughts is identical to you.

I know an ENTP when I see one, especially one who "isn't confident" in his own "usually seemingly-arrogant" confidence of understanding his environment (Ne).

My ENTP friend went through the same thing, this sensitive Fe type of soft side that only an ENTP can give off in "that" way. "That" way is hard to describe, but a good way to put it would be that ENTPs are one of the most sensitive T types, while INTJs throw more of a logical fit outloud, INTP are sensitive like ENTPs but are more to themselves about it, ENTJs have an immune system built toward being hurt if they have developed at least semi-decently....

So why, if you're throwing Fe all over the place, did I think that you weren't Fe dominant? Because there was too much logic and "yearning to learn how things work" (ENTPs trademark).

Also, you seem like you are the stubborn type when it comes to your arguments, even though you are being open to others' opinions, that's only so you can strengthen your opinion, get a good stance on where you stand, and go back to your normal self. And you look like you aren't sensitive to hearing ANYTHING ANYONE has to say, as long as it's constructive and meaningful. I bet I could even throw in a half-insult with insightful logical spice and your feelings would be just fine.

Also, the avatar you chose looks like a scholar, the boring type that a feeling oriented person just wouldn't choose. He looks like he's about to read how something is suppose to be from a book and spill out an argument. Look at his concerned face, as if his child did something wrong and needs to be lectured and pointed into the right direction of logic. YOU picked the picture, right? Of course, I'd be wrong to base my opinion only on this, but when mixed with everything, it shouts ENTP to me in every way shape and form.

I don't know what you're waiting for. You need to change that XXXX into ENTP and start being proud of it. You're a pretty decently-built ENTP, at least you're developing well into one if you keep on in this direction."

http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=94497&page=4

I think intjf will give you a better idea of a holistic representation, especially the additions of reckful.

Due to a different turn here leading to stagnation in the discussion I shall rely on the information of intjf. I have been extremely verbose to elicit a response, I see this forum dislikes such inquiries. Rather they wish for a quick type without questioning. I understand, everyone is different. Good day.

 

[ElvenVeil]

hm. So you took it personal that I said that? I don't say things with the purpose of personal assault, and if you have taken it that way then I appologize.

 

[Kirsanov]

hm. So you took it personal that I said that? I don't say things with the purpose of personal assault, and if you have taken it that way then I appologize.

No, it was not really personal. But for the most part I am appalled at your belief of my lack of insincerity. I have answered every question a person poses, why would I dissemble myself concerning something as serious as a disorder? Sarcasm and poking fun is part of me, but I do not joke about serious illnesses due to experience of them through my family and relatives. If you want any more information I direct you to the corresponding forum. Thank you for your contribution.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Have you tried just interacting with people? All this self-conscious information which is infused with your inherent personal bias can give people conflicting impressions. I say just interact with people over the forums for awhile, and then people will get an idea of your personality(etc) and will be able to type from that.

 

[SpiralHacker]

I haven't read all of this thread, but I'd like to say that I have very little confidence in Socionics although I have not explored it in-depth.

I really like Lenore Thomson's descriptions of the types. Thomson's INTJ Description. Thomson's INTP description. Like someone mentioned previously, these two types have completely different functions, although they are both Rationals (NT).

Hope that helps. I may return to this thread for further contribution.

 

[Mysty]

Have you tried just interacting with people? All this self-conscious information which is infused with your inherent personal bias can give people conflicting impressions. I say just interact with people over the forums for awhile, and then people will get an idea of your personality(etc) and will be able to type from that.

good idea

oh and Viche - that link you gave has given me a LOT of food for thought!
Reading the inferior Fi section has resonated with me so strongly it has got me thinking! The confusion over my type could well be caused by the fact that I got interested in typology whilst still in the midst of great stress - including those behaviours into trying to identify type is quite likely why none were quite right.

Also, with respect to others opinions of you - it never ceases to amaze me how much others impressions of me can be (at times) so different to what I had imagined. They do not know how I think (which is what MBTi is all about) but I do not know how I appear to other people. For example, I think of myself as shy as I am very guarded with sharing my closest feelings, and hate making cold phone calls even to my friends. But everyone (including my husband) thinks I am very open and confident and at times gregarious!

 

[Mysty]

by the way, sorry for the totally wrong link I put above LOL. I find the ipad is awful for cutting and pasting!! Google it instead if you were curious:smiley_emoticons_mr

 

[viche]

Whenever I think about the future it is almost like an imageless image. I do not see the image right in front of me, when I close my eyes I see darkness. Rather through my thoughts I paint the image and see myself in the situation. So I consciously use my thoughts to create the mental image, without seeing it before me per se. It is as if I can slightly compartmentalize reality for future's sake, but I never completely forget or block out all reality. Only once did I ever day dream at which point I did not realize my teacher was speaking to me.
...
If you read all of this you earn a reward for dedication.

yay! I have a reward now

INTJs and ENTJs transverse the time continuum in their thoughts frequently, going back into the past and forward into the future. Judging from what you have written, I'd say you are likely INTP.

 

[Lordran Nights]

Hi,
This is just an attempt by me to pick apart things in your above post that go to show that by comparison to me you aren’t INTP and are far more likely to be an INJ, specifically INTJ. My main problem though is that I’m having trouble finding the Te in the post. At some points you say that words and arguments just flow out of you and I think this might be Te, but it could also be Ni, because I know some really gabby fluid INFJs. I think the Te delivery is clearer in the video. But the way you write is more in a rational style compared to what you would get with an INFJ idealist.

Whenever I think about the future it is almost like an imageless image. I do not see the image right in front of me, when I close my eyes I see darkness. Rather through my thoughts I paint the image and see myself in the situation. So I consciously use my thoughts to create the mental image, without seeing it before me per se. It is as if I can slightly compartmentalize reality for future's sake, but I never completely forget or block out all reality. Only once did I ever day dream at which point I did not realize my teacher was speaking to me.

I’m INTP, and this description of your thought process is not something that I can relate to. It sounds, from my experience of type descriptions, much like how dominant introverted intuitives think. You have a strong sense of the passage of time – and can create ideas in a vacuum. I day-dream a lot, especially in a lecture or class. INTPs are day-dreamers, you say it is uncharacteristic of you to daydream.

My thoughts and words seem to flow out of me, whether long or short winded. I reach the end goal. But this end goal is often achieved by a guiding question. Without a question or topic there would be no long discussion.

My INTJ colleague is always asking insightful questions which appear to come about after he spots some sort of paradox. I struggle with paradox as a concept; I understand it as a contradiction, but I think it must run deeper than that for those with Ni. My dad, an ISTP lecturer, uses the word “paradoxical” a lot; he sees them naturally, as an ISTP with introverted intuition in his functional stack. I believe paradoxes lead to interesting questions of the kind you describe. But this phenomenon doesn’t really happen to me.

I can talk for hours about certain subject and never tire. Overall I have a vast basin of knowledge to draw from that excludes some themes that I detest such as sports. I memorize by repetition, but once memorized it becomes engraved so the words flow from my mouth.

I memorise by repetition too but I’m quick to forget, that might be something to do with the medication I’m on, but it could also be that my Si is quite far down the functional stack. My ESTJ friend can recite whole scenes from films, maybe this is a Te thing. My point here is that I don’t have a great memory for sequential stuff, perhaps like other INTPs. [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

In high school, and I would say in grade school also, I did not speak much for fear of my ideas. For instance I created an analogy of the body fighting off a disease to a besieged castle. Vitamins all had their purpose and were assigned specific roles. Zinc was used as a supplies, while Vitamin D for its relation to bones would relate to the strengthening of castle walls. Just as the central command needs aid, vitamin E lends help to the heart. Fish oils are similar to the oil poured from the gatehouse upon enemies, and vitamin c were the infantrymen.

My INTJ colleague has interesting perspectives on nutrition too. What you’ve done here is used analogy and symbolism naturally to aid your understanding. I don’t think I would create such a scenario unless I was attempting to explain it to others to aid their understanding, though it’s a pretty good idea. I think use of analogy and symbolism is an Introverted Intuition habit.


I am not a great driver, and I am absolutely horrible at directions. Once I know how to get to a place it is based off a few landmarks and knowing when to turn. I still do not know the streets I am necessarily turning onto, I just do it. Normally this takes about three trips to the same location before I do not need the GPS.

Furthermore I had many health problems when I was very young leading to constriction in my ability to walk. I am perfectly healthy now, but back when I was a child I would sit and play with legos or read on my own. I hated going outdoors, but my parents forced me too. For the most part I am respected and can use my influence for the better. On subjects I enjoy, which are many, I exhibit my enthusiasm and go about it in a relaxed approach.

Inferior Se, in an INJ, would result in poor sense of direction when driving, a dislike of engaging in physical sport, or other sports, even going outside. My INTP self actually enjoys sports and the outdoors. I’m good at racquet sports and I’m pretty co-ordinated – not great at football mind you. Here is a quote from Lenore Thomson about inferior Se: “Their Extravate Sensate skills are undeveloped in the sense that INJs have a hard time seeing themselves objectively.” When I read the INTP description it clicked instantly for me, after rejecting my ISTJ test readout. Maybe it’s because my Ne gives me the ability to look at myself objectively, but you seem to be having real trouble with it, despite me spotting here in almost everything you write tell-tale signs that in my mind speak to you being INTJ or dominant introverted intuitive; info that is available on all INTJ descriptions which you have already read.

In strategy games I am pretty good at analyzing situations and making the proper move, but I am not a great planner or fantastic commander. I know what to do, I can tell others to do it, but someone may be able to implement it better than I can.

Here is a quote from the personality page:
“INTJs are natural leaders, although they usually choose to remain in the background until they see a real need to take over the lead. When they are in leadership roles, they are quite effective, because they are able to objectively see the reality of a situation, and are adaptable enough to change things which aren't working well. They are the supreme strategists - always scanning available ideas and concepts and weighing them against their current strategy, to plan for every conceivable contingency.”
Sound familiar?[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
Generally I read two books at the same time because I have a hard time reading more than 100 pages of the same book in one day. I obsess over reading or different things, that is probably how I have such an immense database of facts or connections, especially literary or movie references.

I did not finish the two books I wanted to over break, so I have started another one at school. When I go home for my three day weekend, I will pickup where I left off. I hate skimming because I like to absorb all the information, same thing goes for lectures.

I have a hard time reading a book sequentially. I daydream and miss important parts as a result and get annoyed. I want to jump ahead, and skip all the descriptive stuff, but that often contains important points too. I rarely finish books now. I gave up halfway through Game of Thrones for no good reason, though I’ve watched the TV show since. I often read magazines, starting at the back, but that might be a left-handed thing. I gather the stuff I’ve described is common for INTPs. Your experience is very different. [FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

Back in high school I was called anything from genius to mad scientist. The two groups I spoke with the most, although I never associated myself with one in particular, were the semi-drinkers who would party but weren't all about popularity and the non-drinker workaholics, readers, and gamers. A few months ago a contact of mine at the university mentioned a professor in my department who I would be interested in speaking with. Even though he prefaced that this professor was non-linear and an interesting man, the contact said the professor would be a good person to talk to for me.

I will admit to long messages on facebook, and long conversations in real life. One comment that I can most assuredly affirm the validity of was from a teacher a year ago who mentioned to another classmate that I could talk forever about a topic.

I don’t really like long conversations unless I’m drinking alcohol or with a friend discussing a theory or whatever and I typically post very brief (humorous) messages on social media. On forums, I hate posting unless I feel I’ve got something important to say. What I’m writing just now is a real chore to me, although at least I’m doing it.[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

Even though I do not like excessive questions, I ask them. Normally questions come from an interest in learning something new since I am incredibly curious. I try to be cordial to others, even those I dislike. My mother taught my family manners in social, dining, and every other situation. I shall admit I still have to go to my sisters for advice on matching my clothes. I have spoken too much.

I think I’m okay at picking clothes but my ISFJ mother is very critical sometimes and I think this is because she is obsessed with me conforming to an idealised version of me in her mind. If I don’t feel like I’ve got her approval I usually just go and change believing she knows best. But does she?

No one will read this anyway, it is just me writing a stream of consciousness message. My thoughts and writing should be close to similar, since I do not write or think any other way. Again, the words and ideas flow out of me with some sort of structure it falls into itself. I like literature especially for the analysis since I am great at thinking of new ideas that can work in essays for papers about symbolism, theme, plot, you name it. I do not really know my strengths and abilities unfortunately.

If you read all of this you earn a reward for dedication.

 

[Mysty]

Definitely a lot of Si which would account for the fantastic memory and a number of other things.
Could even be an ISTJ?

 

[scorpiomover]

Having read your posts on INTJf, between the 3, I am 99.9% sure that you are an ENTJ.

1) You are extremely goal-oriented.
2) You describe yourself as likeable, but am sometimes deliberately annoying by choice.
3) You take charge, and the way you write, it's quite natural for you.
4) Most importantly, you mention things in terms of practical benefits and practical results, almost constantly. It's like a continual stream of Te.
5) INTJs are always starting with their theories. You hardly mention any.
6) INTPs are usually either tactiturn or loquacious to the point of incomprehension, or they say something extremely simply. You do neither. Your words indicate complexity of thought, but not to the extent of overwhelming the reader. It carries none of the characteristics that I see in INTPs here or on INTJf.
7) In your video, you spoke very slowly, very calmly, and looked directly into the camera, never wavering your gaze, but with a deadpan expression. No INTJ death stare. No Ne-based eye flicking and flinching.
8) There are a couple of regular posters on INTJf, who are ENTJs. They have a lot in common. You have the same styles of expression.

There is probably more. But even so, I'm pretty damn sure, even for me.

But decide for yourself. Of the following 8 questions/statements, if everything in life was a fence to be built, which of these questions would be your standard first question/statement that would immediately occur to you, time after time after time?

The Eight Functions and Fence-Building

Ne - I want to design the fence.

Ni - Why do they want to do this and what is the deal with fences anyway? Is this necessary?

Se - I want to decorate the fence and make sure that it looks stylish and appealing

Si - I’ll take care of looking at the instructions and making sure that we follow the established guidlines.

Te - Is doing this cost effective? Will it be useful?

Ti - I want to analyze the structure and placement of the fence.

Fe - How will it affect the neighborhood, and what will the neighbors think?

Fi - I want it to be my own special fence that I can share with others over time

 

[Kirsanov]

@scorpiomover @Lordran Nights

Maybe I shall stick around either the intjf or intp forum in attempts to alleviate the consternation. For now I am setting aside typology because I have wasted so much time the past few weeks obsessing over it. Now that I have college to keep me busy, I don't have as much energy anymore. Most of the time I read peoples' comments. It takes an enormous amount of interest or energy to respond. In most forums I only have a few posts, even though I have thoroughly read recent threads, because I do not see the point in contributing.

Uncertainty the past few days has been boggling me. This is not in terms of typology as much as my life. I know not whether I wish to pursue a doctorate, in what field, or if I should content myself with a J.D. and M.A. in the future. My interests are all over the place from philosophy to Christian Patristics to literature to history to political theory to managerial theory to theology to spirituality to languages to economics and its theories ending in law and military law. I have some knowledge of each of these areas, and while I have narrowed down what I wish to study academically a little bit, I cannot figure out which is the best to pursue. Over the past week I have questioned what my abilities and talents are, not knowing what they are myself.

Only with certain knowledgeable adults, or slightly practical professors, do I have interesting conversations with. Peers bore me, especially with their incessant talk of mindless drivel. No questions are ever asked, and those that arise can be answered so simply with little effort of the mind. I am tired, very tired. Ennui creeps over me ever so often. A few moments a day I feel full of esteem and pride, then uncertainty overwhelms me. I am called an intellectual, but I do not feel like one. Whenever I input my formulation concerning literature and history it comes off the top of my head. Sure I think through everything with deliberateness before I state my information, but I am not sure how I even recall details or theories. A few months ago I tried to study a little bit about hockey or some other sports in order to connect more with my classmates. It failed miserably; enthusiasm arose for two days then it utterly flopped.

I try to put my effort in, but I do not even know the extent of my capabilities. For college I write papers off the top of my head, quickly go through them the next day to edit out a few words or mistakes, and turn it in. Editing either involves small mistakes or adding more information. By the way I hate giving real world examples, I include facts or my analysis, that is good enough. Although, I am a terror when in the phase of editing someone else's paper. I rip it apart in so many directions most people don't come to me. Senior year of high school I read over a friend's research paper, he went with it to his teacher. I knew the teacher really well, she told him to skip over some of the corrections because you wouldn't have to write in that manner until senior year in college. My best is unknown to me, so I am not sure whether I am doing my best. The work occurs, I meet the deadline, everything is fine.

Forgive me for such long drawn out posts. I would go on a walk and ponder these thoughts and life, but it is bitterly cold outside. I have set aside some homework just to write this post. Russian and European History are enjoyable, but I seek something more. Reading allows me to open up an make connections. I go through these feelings of sadness, honestly several years ago I went through a bunch of months of depression (not major or clinical, just sadness and lack of joy in even my interests). I hope I do not go down that path again. My mother mentions the fantastic abilities I have, and how a few months ago my undergraduate advisor recommended a 400 level Russian cinema course to me for my second semester as an undergraduate. Albeit I did not take the class, but she emphasized that he must have seen something in me since I am only a freshman. I do not know, I need to figure this out, but I cannot at this moment.

Please accept my regards. I probably will not respond much for a while. If you have any comments concerning typology or anything else feel free to reply. Even though I won't be speaking much, I promise I will read your messages. Thank you and good day.

 

[awshum]

my guess is INTJ but then that's a pretty hasty guess on my part.

 

[Kirsanov]

So a very long comment that I spent ten minutes on unfortunately deleted on me near the end. I shall try to summarize its contents. I feel that due to my upbringing that I had certain ideals which I tried to live up too even though they were not inherent. Therefore I am probably an INTP trying to project as an INTJ or ENTJ because I went through a period recently of adoring Gandalf and Napoleon. Others have mentioned before of the possible projection that I may be muddling the confusion of typing myself. If you want more of a history which should confirm my type, I direct you to this link: http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/109103-verification-type.html. It includes much more of an analysis and has a plethora of facts along with the gem of being the first typology thread I created concerning myself. Forgive me for not trying to reproduce the long message again, it is instances like these that cause great consternation. My mother is most likely and ENFJ and my father an INTJ or INTP, it is partly from my closeness with my mother along with periods of appreciation and dislike for my father that has confused my nurture vs. nature elements of my history. Thank you for your continued analysis, if you are still in disbelief I think the aforementioned thread should be sufficient to close this case for now. If I am not an INTP then time shall tell through more instances from my past.