Dealing with death of a loved one

[starry]

How do you INTPs deal with the death of a very close family member or any loved one, in other words, how do you process the "loss", be it death or not?

I am trying to understand my INTP friend better in this regard. I understand him a lot but I still feel I need to know more. I don't know my own personality type exactly but I oscillate between ENFJ and INFP.

EDIT: Does it bother you if somebody kept checking up on how you're doing, not ALL the time but in moderate doses? Would too many words of empathy and comfort bother you?

Basically what had happened was that my new INTP friend and I clicked instantly in our conversation, we get along fine. I have noticed that he tends to seek out my company and enjoys sharing his thoughts to me, not necessarily feelings unless it is over an email. I have been able to listen to him and provide feedback, and I tend to lean on the side of sharing what is and what can be done, where he currently stands and what he could be encouraged to do. He takes it in well, but I worry that what if he doesn't want to hear it ALL the time?

When you don't respond much, what goes on in your minds? Are you processing new info or analyzing something as usual, or is it that you disagree with any emotional support being provided? o.O

 

[s0nystyle]

I dont know about you guys, but when people near to me die (ie. my father, my grandmother, and my aunt) i feel nothing. I was taking a test in school when my father got a heart attack, and when i got the phone call that my dad was in the hospital everyone was telling me to just leave... but i stayed to finish the test and didnt visit him until the school day was over.

Maybe i'm just heartless, or maybe i just havn't felt it yet, but if i'm anything like other INTP's i think he would be indifferent towards the deaths of others.

/2 cents

 

[starry]

Maybe i'm just heartless, or maybe i just havn't felt it yet, but if i'm anything like other INTP's i think he would be indifferent towards the deaths of others.

Indifferent because it hasn't hit you yet? Or indifferent because it's a thing that's just meant to be?

 

[s0nystyle]

it's just meant to be, it's a part of life so why should we feel any sorrow when someone dies?

Death is the release of all of one's pains in life, so we should be happy for them right?

 

[starry]

But is this sort of loss the same as losing a loved one while they're still alive? Say, if you lost somebody you fell in love with? Was that just meant to be?

I understand that death is a natural process and one day everyone has to go, but does it really mean there is no feelings buried inside of there? Especially if that person was with you for a very long time and likely but maybe not have meant so much to you?

EDIT: and yes, we should be happy for any pain being alleviated when a person who had suffered in their final days, dies. But what pain do you mean? Pain of an ill person? Because some people die in accidents and what not, so I presume you're not speaking of pain in life, per se - all the sticks and stones breaking our bones

 

[s0nystyle]

EDIT: Does it bother you if somebody kept checking up on how you're doing, not ALL the time but in moderate doses? Would too many words of empathy and comfort bother you?


When you don't respond much, what goes on in your minds? Are you processing new info or analyzing something as usual, or is it that you disagree with any emotional support being provided? o.O

Yes it does bother me when people pester about how i feel and how i'm doing. I don't think empathy appeals to INTP's.


Brainstorming some great new idea/invention. Can't keep our minds straight

 

[Words]

Well...it was quite difficult for me and it still is. I don't understand why but its hard for me to accept someone's disappearance when they've been there for quite a while. It's...simply difficult to accept.

Other than that discomfort, I move on. On second thought, I do feel that these "deaths" breaks a bit of my "grasp" on reality and they seem to destroy my perceptions. My brain believes it a miscalculation and it just goes haywire. I might go crazy the next time. (Oh, I hope not.)

Emotional support bothers me. I'd rather listen to great philosophical advices on things that may or may not attend the problem...something reasonable and interesting. Something to grow from.

Silence is a moment of thinking but could also be a moment of hate.

 

[Alice?]

For me, dealing with death is a strange process. I was in the 8th grade when my grandfather, who was my father figure, passed away. He had been on a long downward spiral health-wise so his death was somewhat expected, though I found that the long process of him dying was much harder to deal with than his actual death. During that time I found myself separating myself from him emotionally, probably because I didn't know if I was strong enough to deal with what was happening. I probably wouldn't have been in retrospect considering everything else that was happening in my life at that time, mixed in with normal teenaged hormone swings. When he had his final heart attack, he was kept on life support only long enough for family members to see him and say goodbyes. His brain had been deprived of oxygen long enough that the machine was the only thing keeping him alive. I went to see him only because that was what was expected of me, but I couldn't look at him. I kept my eyes down the entire time. During the funeral, it was relatively the same thing, I couldn't look up, didn't want to make conversation. I didn't know how to feel, so I was blank. I remember at point during the funeral a family member standing beside me and reaching over to hold my hand, but I retracted it. I didn't want to be near anyone or have anyone touching me. I didn't want to know what they were thinking or feeling, I just wanted to be isolated in my own blank head. Seeing everyone display such strong emotion made me immensely uncomfortable.
To this day I still miss him and think about him on a regular basis. It's more of a "Damn, I wish he could have been here to see this!' type of missing him, though- not really a sadness.
I'm not sure if that helps, but that's been my only experience of a death of someone I really cared about.

 

[s0nystyle]

^ my funeral experiences were similar to yours in that i didn't know what to feel. I just pretended to be sad like everyone else to not draw attention

 

[Alice?]

^ my funeral experiences were similar to yours in that i didn't know what to feel. I just pretended to be sad like everyone else to not draw attention

Yeah, exactly. But I didn't pretend to the point that I let people touch me or comfort me. Couldn't have dealt with that.

 

[Words]

Our culture doesn't include funerals.

I smiled and was quite cheerful during the week. People looked at me negatively. In truth, I was just getting a bit insane...

 

[y4r5xeym5]

Death is the only thing in the world that makes me go completely blank. No thoughts, no emotion. It's like staring at a huge, grey wall and slowly merging yourself with it. I'll feel heavy and very, very aware of everything around me. Time will seem to stand still and things move in slow-mo. I'll keep this blankness for a few days, then begin the process of moving on. Granted, I haven't had anyone in my family die since I was a small boy, but I went through a similar thing when I learned my grandfather had cancer a few years back. Thankfully he is well again.

Then again, I'm the type of person that would never want someone to mourn for me. Remember me as I was, think of the happy times we shared, and make the most of the rest your life in peace.

 

[s0nystyle]

Then again, I'm the type of person that would never want someone to mourn for me. Remember me as I was, think of the happy times we, and make the most of the rest your life in peace.

you pretty much summed up my feelings on dying too

 

[Shivian]

Several years ago my grandfather, whom I was very close to, died of cancer. At first I felt nothing, and like some of the other posters have said I even felt the need to pretend to be sad. A few days after his funeral I was talking with my dad about my grandfather and the true realization of his death all seemed to hit me at once. I cried for several minutes while talking with my dad. After that I went back to feeling very little to nothing about his death.
I don't know if it's my personality or possibly that I am just desensitized now, but the very recent (less than 2 weeks ago) death of my only grandmother has no emotional effect on me that I can tell. The very fact that death does not affect me like it does my family bothers me more than an actual death of a close relative.

 

[s0nystyle]

Several years ago my grandfather, whom I was very close to, died of cancer. At first I felt nothing, and like some of the other posters have said I even felt the need to pretend to be sad. A few days after his funeral I was talking with my dad about my grandfather and the true realization of his death all seemed to hit me at once. I cried for several minutes while talking with my dad. After that I went back to feeling very little to nothing about his death.
I don't know if it's my personality or possibly that I am just desensitized now, but the very recent (less than 2 weeks ago) death of my only grandmother has no emotional effect on me that I can tell. The very fact that death does not affect me like it does my family bothers me more than an actual death of a close relative.

i was a little worried at first too, then i just realized that's just how we are

 

[Dr. Zombie]

I don't feel sadness or happiness at the end of suffering, or anything like that. But I do feel a driving need to respect the loved one.

A friend of mine died a few years ago. It wasn't unexpected, he had been going for some time. But he was a very smart man with an amazing grasp of history. So I wrote up a series of pages on some of his views on ancient history and distributed it to several appropriate forums to stimulate some discussion on it. I wasn't sad, crying or any of that, but I felt it was right to respect his ideas in this manner and it made me feel better about the death.

I didn't go to the funeral. I'm not very good at faking the whole sadness thing, and I said my goodbye in my own way anyway.

 

[starry]

Thanks everyone for sharing your stories and perspectives, it was truly enlightening. It's quite interesting that I, myself, had not found it easy to break in tears with the crowd, neither do I cry too much in a funeral, not because I didn't need to, but only because I begin to reflect other people's emotions instead. I fall into some observation of people when they cry and why do they cry and what will they do next, how is a person like that normally feeling after situations like this.

I will be honest about the fact that most people don't let me express my emotions (in a funeral setting and everything alike) the way I want to express it without them knowing that it is the case. I suddenly feel blocked and prefer to relate to them and connect dots with regards to people instead, until I am on my own or with the few people I am close to, I am then able to run through thoughts that eventually cause me to remove the blockage and break a tear or more.

It was not until I noticed the INTP one day, at a funeral of his loved one, that I was somehow drawn to his behaviour and he was drawn to me somehow as well. I asked him if he had overwhelming emotions processing inside of him and was keeping himself back the whole time, and that he should allow himself to cry and let it all go; and to remember his loved one as much as possible. He responded by expressing that he feels a little lonely without his loved one and that memories is all he can keep alive, and had wished he'd done more.

Other than that, he was very keen on keeping emotions aside and talking much about the past, beginning from the first time he had done something "big" for this loved member of his family. We did not get to finish off the chat, but I presume he was gradually going through every memory until he can feel his emotions?

I don't know if this was okay for me to say, but I emailed him today by letting him know that it is a kind of mercy that he found comfort in this loved one so if he cried, it's perfectly natural. And if ever he is happy, it hits him that he can't share this ability with the person he lost. If you feel strongly about someone, it's not always easy and it's often the case that you feel sad, angry, hurt and empty when you're a bit lonely. In the end, good memories are not something we should be trying to stop. You'll never forget someone if they were with you for a long time so you need to smile and realize that those good memories are part of what makes you who you are today. I feel he needs to know that it's not always about "giving" because of the tendency to feel that you just wish you could've done more... sometimes it is simply about being inspired to be a better person.

 

[WorkInProgress]

Yes it does bother me when people pester about how i feel and how i'm doing. I don't think empathy appeals to INTP's.


Brainstorming some great new idea/invention. Can't keep our minds straight

I hate when people feel sorry for me, mostly because anytime that I'm legitimately upset (very rarely) I just feign happiness. So anytime I'm shown sympathy it's usually not something I'm broken up about in the first place.

With that said, I do know what it feels like to hurt and I'll often become much more emotionally tied to other people's problems than my own.
I think that this makes me very empathetic toward others, but in a different way because it isn't necessarily that I can identify with their problems, but that I feel guilt when I see someone in pain.

After having put some thought into it, I've realized that this is because I feel that being a (in both my and most people I know's current opinion) more level headed person than most, I have a responsibility to think of a solution. If I can't than suddenly my self value is lost and the little voice in my head starts attacking me (worse than usual.) Beyond that, I feel not having an answer is another black mark on my intelligence, making others question the legitimacy of my advice.

And yes I know I shouldn't pin my self esteem to something as hard to maintain as "Designated Problem Solver," but it's what I have to work with at the moment. Sorry if I sank into melodrama.

 

[Fallenman]

Ok... So I find it morbidly depressing that my experience with death has been similar with many people here. But mine was a little different... My sister died, i was in middle school, I was able to force myself to be sad but anything that I felt was through force and an attempt to try and feel the way I was expected to feel. My Grandmother passed away, I pretended to be forlorn but made no pretenses to myself that I was sad. My brother died, I was incapable of bringing myself to go to his funeral, I was emotionally drained. My father died... I managed to keep myself in tact for about 20 minutes after I saw his body at the hospital. I had gone to meet some friends, they were going to take me in because I had only lived with my father and was now essentially homeless (although I still own the house we lived in, and am now in the process of renting it out) and I balled my eyes out. Cried myself to sleep in fact. Didn't cry again after that, attempted to move on with life. My uncle died over the summer... didn't attend his funeral, and I ended up crying for him too... I think I was just overwhelmed by that point.

(EDIT: My brother and sister were half-siblings and never lived with me)

For advice, telling us that it is ok to cry or whatever is rather annoying. I mean we're not very emotional people so it would seem! And so often times emotional advice prescribed at the wrong time is more bothersome than helpful. Personally what helped me most was normallacy. I had a friend who did nothing else but hang out with me and talked to me about anything and everything, not necessarily all the deaths i had gone through. I wasn't incapable of it, I just needed to know that everything was ok and that the world was still spinning. Sympathy when it is warranted I find to be very comforting. Otherwise just having someone to talk to was all I really ever needed.

 

[Philosophyking87]

I think INTPs tend to disassociate themselves when people close to them die. We rationalize the event and logically deal with the idea that someone has actually died and no longer exists. But on a personal note, I really had a hard time dealing with my mother's death—not because it's unbearably emotional (even though it is pretty tough), but because we INTPs just don't deal with emotions well at all. Hence, the entire process is like taking care of children: we're totally lost and freaking out, because our cold natures and rational minds are attempting to make sense out of something which is absolutely nonsensical.

Thus, I pretty much subdued my emotions, and although I felt plenty of sorrow, pain, suffering, and grief, I never really allowed myself to break down and completely mourn, unlike most of my other family members, who seemed to bawl like babies. I kept my composure and tried to deal with the matter logically and rationally. And I'm pretty sure if an INTP is super cold and rational—like me—they'll want to be left alone to cope with the entire matter in private. As we are not generally comfortable with showing our feelings, even if we could express our feelings, we tend to want to avoid making a big scene.

Hopefully this bit of insight helps.

 

[Silas]

This thread has been of great use to me too (my father died last October). Knowing that other likes me deal with the situation very similarly is more than a comfort. The normality worked for me too, although I have felt guilty about carrying on in such a manner, as though I should be depressed more and show it.
Glad that's gone now.
(continues to ditto all other posts albeit slightly differently......)

 

[VwllssWndr]

I've had very different experiences with death throughout my life.

My grandfather died when I was very young, I don't remember very much about it or even feeling sad. I wasn't confused about what had happened, but it didn't impact me very much at that age.

The first death I really felt was a good friend of the family when I was 15. She was someone I felt like I really connected with. I was shocked to find out that she'd died, and I cried at the funeral (though I sure tried not to).

When my grandmother died about 15 years ago, I wasn't too upset about it. She'd been very sick. The funeral was very eye-opening for me, however, because of how insincere the whole thing seemed: the guy up there talking was just reiterating the stuff we'd told him about her the day before.

My mother's death was difficult for me. I was in college when she got sick. I came home and she was gone a few days later. I'm a depressive, so it affected me a good bit, though I forced myself to work through it as best as I could. I remember going to a counselor on campus and discussing the grief process, and I know he got the impression that I was just trying to work through the stages like a checklist. I just wanted to get through it.

My father died about 5 years ago. It was sudden, but not unexpected: his health had always been bad. I was living at home, so I was the one who found him when I came home from work that day. It was somewhat difficult the first week, but losing my mother was much more difficult to deal with because of how unexpected it was.

I've avoided funerals since losing both of my parents. I've lost a few uncles and aunts since then. I know I'll eventually have to go to someone else's funeral, but I'm in no hurry to do so.