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Are You Self-Actualized?

Da Blob

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I promised to look up self actualization for someone, so I thought I would just post a new thread as well. I just cut and pasted the below, it seemed to cover most ofd the Basics. The question of pertinence is "Are You Self-Actualized" - if not what's to going to take to get there?


SELF ACTUALIZATION
"Self Actualization is the intrinsic growth of what is already in the organism, or more accurately, of what the organism is."
Abraham Maslow
Maslow studied healthy people, most psychologists study sick people.

The characteristics listed here are the results of 20 years of study of people who had the "full use and exploitation of talents, capacities, potentialities, etc.."

Self-actualization implies the attainment of the basic needs of physiological, safety/security, love/belongingness, and self-esteem.

Maslow's Basic Principles:

The normal personality is characterized by unity, integration, consistency, and coherence. Organization is the natural state, and disorganization is pathological.
The organism can be analyzed by differentiating its parts, but no part can be studied in isolation. The whole functions according to laws that cannot be found in the parts.
The organism has one sovereign drive, that of self-actualization. People strive continuously to realize their inherent potential by whatever avenues are open to them.
The influence of the external environment on normal development is minimal. The organism's potential, if allowed to unfold by an appropriate environment, will produce a healthy, integrated personality.
The comprehensive study of one person is more useful than the extensive investigation, in many people, of an isolated psychological function.
The salvation of the human being is not to be found in either behaviorism or in psychoanalysis, (which deals with only the darker, meaner half of the individual). We must deal with the questions of value, individuality, consciousness, purpose, ethics and the higher reaches of human nature.
Man is basically good not evil.
Psychopathology generally results from the denial, frustration or twisting of our essential nature.
Therapy of any sort, is a means of restoring a person to the path of self-actualization and development along the lines dictated by their inner nature.
When the four basic needs have been satisfied, the growth need or self-actualization need arises: A new discontent and restlessness will develop unless the individual is doing what he individually is fitted for. A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write--in short, what people can be they must be.

Characteristics of Self Actualizing People


Realistic

Realistically oriented, SA persons have a more efficient perception of reality, they have comfortable relations with it. This is extended to all areas of life. SA persons are unthreatened, unfrightened by the unknown. they have a superior ability to reason, to see the truth. They are logical and efficient.

Acceptance

Accept themselves, others and the natural world the way they are. Sees human nature as is, have a lack of crippling guilt or shame, enjoy themselves without regret or apology, they have no unnecessary inhibitions.

Spontaneity, Simplicity, Naturalness

Spontaneous in their inner life, thoughts and impulses, they are unhampered by convention. Their ethics is autonomous, they are individuals, and are motivated to continual growth.

Problem Centering

Focus on problems outside themselves, other centered. They have a mission in life requiring much energy, their mission is their reason for existence. They are serene, characterized by a lack of worry, and are devoted to duty.

Detachment: The Need for Privacy

Alone but not lonely, unflappable, retain dignity amid confusion and personal misfortunes, objective. They are self starters, responsible for themselves, own their behavior.

Autonomy: Independent of Culture and Environment

SA's rely on inner self for satisfaction. Stable in the face of hard knocks, they are self contained, independent from love and respect.

Continued Freshness of Appreciation

Have a fresh rather than stereotyped appreciation of people and things. Appreciation of the basic good in life, moment to moment living is thrilling, transcending and spiritual. They live the present moment to the fullest.

Peak experiences

"Feelings of limitless horizons opening up to the vision, the feeling of being simultaneously more powerful and also more helpless than one ever was before, the feeling of ecstacy and wonder and awe, the loss of placement in time and space with, finally, the conviction that something extremely important and valuable had happened, so that the subject was to some extent transformed and strengthened even in his daily life by such experiences." Abraham Maslow
Maslow asked his subjects to think of the most wonderful experience or experiences of their lives--the happiest moments, extatic moments, moments of rapture, perhaps from being in live, or from listening to music or suddenly "being hit" by a book or a painting or from some great creative moment. He found that people undergoing peak experiences felt more integrated, more at one with the world, more in command of their own lives, more spontaneous, less aware of space and time, more perceptive, more self determined, more playful.

Effects of peak experiences:

The removal of neurotic symptoms
A tendency to view oneself in a more healthy way
Change in one's view of other people and of one's relations with them
Change in one's view of the world
The release of creativity, spontaneity and expressiveness
A tendency to remember the experience and to try to duplicate it
A tendency to view life in general as more worthwhile.
Gemeinschaftsgefuhl
Identification, sympathy, and affection for mankind, kinship with the good, the bad and the ugly, older-brother attitude. Truth is clear to him, can see things others cannot see.

Interpersonal relations

Profound, intimate relationships with few. Capable of greater love than others consider possible. Benevolence, affection and friendliness shown to everyone.

Democratic values and attitudes

Able to learn from anyone, humble. Friendly with anyone regardless of class, education, political belief, race or color.
Discrimination: means and ends, Good and Evil

Do not confuse between means and ends. They do no do wrong. Enjoy the here and now, getting to goal--not just the result. They make the most tedious task an enjoyable game. They have their own inner moral standards (appearing amoral to others).

Philosophical, unhostile sense of humor

Jokes are teaching metaphors, intrinsic to the situation, spontaneous, can laugh at themselves, never make jokes that hurt others.

Creativity

Inborn uniqueness that carries over into everything they do, see the real and true more easily, original, inventive and less inhibited.

Resistance to enculturation: Transcendence of any particular culture

Inner detachment from culture, folkways are used but of no consequence, calm long term culture improvement, indignation with injustice, inner autonomy and outer acceptance. Transcend the environment rather than just cope.

Imperfections

Painfully aware of own imperfections, joyfully aware of own growth process. Impatient with self when stuck, real life pain, not imagined.

Values

Philosophical acceptance of the nature of his self, human nature, social life, nature, physical reality, remains realistically human.

Resolution of dichotomies

Polar opposites merge into a third, higher phenomenon, as though the two have united, work becomes play, most childlike person is most wise, opposite forces no longer felt as a conflict. Desires are in excellent accord with reason.
Maslow says there are two processes necessary for self-actualization: self exploration and action. The deeper the self exploration, the closer one comes to self-actualization.




EIGHT WAYS TO SELF ACTUALIZE

Experience things fully, vividly, selflessly. Throw yourself into the experiencing of something: concentrate on it fully, let it totally absorb you.
Life is an ongoing process of choosing between safety (out of fear and need for defense) and risk (for the sake of progress and growth): Make the growth choice a dozen times a day.
Let the self emerge. Try to shut out the external clues as to what you should think, feel, say, and so on, and let your experience enable you to say what you truly feel.
When in doubt, be honest. If you look into yourself and are honest, you will also take responsibility. Taking responsibility is self-actualizing.
Listen to your own tastes. Be prepared to be unpopular.
Use your intelligence, work to do well the things you want to do, no matter how insignificant they seem to be.
Make peak experiencing more likely: get rid of illusions and false notions. Learn what you are good at and what your potentialities are not.
Find out who you are, what you are, what you like and don't like, what is good and what is bad for you, where you are going, what your mission is. Opening yourself up to yourself in this way means identifying defenses--and then finding the courage to give them up.

SELF ACTUALIZATION
Maslow (1954), believed that man has a natural drive to healthiness, or self actualization. He believed that man has basic, (biological and psychological) needs that have to be fulfilled in order to be free enough to feel the desire for the higher levels of realization. He also believed that the organism has the natural, unconscious and innate capacity to seek its needs. (Maslow 1968)

In other words, man has an internal, natural, drive to become the best possible person he can be.

"...he has within him a pressure toward unity of personality, toward spontaneous expressiveness, toward full individuality and identity, toward seeing the truth rather than being blind, toward being creative, toward being good, and a lot else. That is, the human being is so constructed that he presses toward what most people would call good values, toward serenity, kindness, courage, honesty, love, unselfishness, and goodness." (Maslow, 1968, p. 155.)
Maslow believed that not only does the organism know what it needs to eat to maintain itself healthy, but also man knows intuitively what he needs to become the best possible, mentally healthy and happy "being". I use the word "being" because Maslow goes far beyond what the average person considers good physical and mental health. He talked about higher consciousness, esthetic and peak experiences, and Being. He stressed the importance of moral and ethical behavior that will lead man naturally to discovering, becoming himself.
"The state of being without a system of values is psychopathogenic, we are learning. The human being needs a framework of values, a philosophy of life, a religion or religion-surrogate to live by and understand by, in about the same sense he needs sunlight, calcium or love. This I have called the "cognitive need to understand." The value- illnesses which result from valuelessness are called variously anhedonia, anomie, apathy, amorality, hopelessness, cynicism, etc., and can become somatic illness as well. Historically, we are in a value interregnum in which all externally given value systems have proven failures (political, economic, religious, etc.) e.g., nothing is worth dying for. What man needs but doesn't have, he seeks for unceasingly, and he becomes dangerously ready to jump at any hope, good or bad. The cure for this disease is obvious. We need a validated, usable system of human values that we can believe in and devote ourselves to (be willing to die for), because they are true rather than because we are exhorted to "believe and have faith." Such an empirically based Weltanschauung seems now to be a real possibility, at least in theoretical outline." (Maslow, 1968, p. 206.)
Morality then is natural. If we use our capacity to think, are honest, sincere and open, we arrive at moral and ethical behavior naturally. The problem is to not destroy our ability to become ourselves.
"Pure spontaneity consists of free, uninhibited uncontrolled, trusting, unpremeditated expression of the self, i.e., of the psychic forces, with minimal interference by consciousness. Control, will, caution, self-criticism, measure, deliberateness are the brakes upon this expression made intrinsically necessary by the laws of the social and natural world, and secondarily, made necessary by the fear of the psyche itself." (1968, p. 197.)
To me, this means listening to the inner self, the unconscious, the spirit.
"This ability of healthier people to dip into the unconscious and preconscious, to use and value their primary processes instead of fearing them, to accept their impulses instead of always controlling them, to be able to regress voluntarily without fear, turns out to be one of the main conditions of creativity."
"This development toward the concept of a healthy unconscious and of a healthy irrationality, sharpens our awareness of the limitations of purely abstract thinking, of verbal thinking and of analytic thinking. If our hope is to describe the world fully, a place is necessary for preverbal, ineffable, metaphorical, primary process, concrete-experience, intuitive and esthetic types of cognition, for there are certain aspects of reality which can be cognized in no other way." (p. 208)

Meditation, self-hypnosis, imagery and the like are sources of discovering our inner being. To become self-actualized, Maslow said we need two things, inner exploration and action.
"An important existential problem is posed by the fact that self-actualizing persons (and all people in their peak- experiences) occasionally live out-of-time and out-of-the- world (atemporal and aspatial) even though mostly they must live in the outer world. Living in the inner psychic world (which is ruled by psychic laws and not by the laws of outer-reality), i.e., the world of experience, of emotion, of wishes and fears and hopes, of love of poetry, art and fantasy, is different from living in and adapting to the non-psychic reality which runs by laws he never made and which are not essential to his nature even though he has to live by them. (He could, after all, live in other kinds of worlds, as any science fiction fan knows.) The person who is not afraid of this inner, psychic world, can enjoy it to such an extent that it may be called Heaven by contrast with the more effortful, fatiguing, externally responsible world of "reality," of striving and coping, of right and wrong, of truth and falsehood. This is true even though the healthier person can also adapt more easily and enjoyably to the "real" world, and has better "reality testing," i.e., doesn't confuse it with his inner psychic world." (p. 213)
Maslow has made a case for natural, human goodness. Man is basically good, not evil, he has the capacity to be an efficient, healthy and happy person. But he must nurture the capacity with awareness, honesty, introspection and maintain his freedom: to freely respond to internal and external events (values), to be himself at all costs.
The knowledge that man has this capacity motivates him to realize it. It also obliges him to actively work toward self realization. We cannot not respond to the call that a value makes on us. This whole discussion shows the importance of studying Values and Ethics. We are obliged to discover the range of our possible moral behavior. If we are capable of being healthy and happy, then we are obliged to work toward that goal.
 

Mud~Eye

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I've only read half of this, and so far, according to this, I have alot more work ahead of me than I first believed! I'm glad you posted this. It'll be interesting to see how others respond. I'm going to finish reading it, and perhaps pick up some more info (I'm "suppose" to be getting some books back to the library, anyway).
 

Da Blob

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I've only read half of this, and so far, according to this, I have alot more work ahead of me than I first believed! I'm glad you posted this. It'll be interesting to see how others respond. I'm going to finish reading it, and perhaps pick up some more info (I'm "suppose" to be getting some books back to the library, anyway).

I'm glad you've gotten something out of it, often my posts get 'buried' fairly quickly.

Those books are not 'overdue' are they? (Mine always were...)
 

dwags222

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i'm fairly self actualized, though perhaps not completely. i think the thing i miss out on most is profound and deep relationships, though this is something i long for, especially since i left college where i had those types of relationships to a larger extent then i do now (though perhaps still not as fully as i would like).

self actualization has been a driving personal theme in my life ever since i was about 19 and i started to realize how really messsed up i was. i can honestly say that i am a completely different person now, and i love life whereas i used to honestly hate it. pursuing self actualization is both the most difficult and most rewarding thing a person can do, in my opinion.
 

Da Blob

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i'm fairly self actualized, though perhaps not completely. i think the thing i miss out on most is profound and deep relationships, though this is something i long for, especially since i left college where i had those types of relationships to a larger extent then i do now (though perhaps still not as fully as i would like).

self actualization has been a driving personal theme in my life ever since i was about 19 and i started to realize how really messsed up i was. i can honestly say that i am a completely different person now, and i love life whereas i used to honestly hate it. pursuing self actualization is both the most difficult and most rewarding thing a person can do, in my opinion.
Many of us look back on our days in College as the "Good Old Days" In fact, I spend a great deal of my time messing in a facebook group composed of friends from college from 30 years ago.

The thing about self-actualization is that it is a seemingly never ending process, very few actually get all the way there. However, it's a journey that is important to make, a sort of never-ending pilgrimage. We are all faced with the challenge of adaptation. You Change the world or you Change your self. It seems that the ones who become most proficient at changing their Selves, also end up being the Ones that Do Change The World!
 

Mud~Eye

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...pursuing self actualization is both the most difficult and most rewarding thing a person can do, in my opinion.

I agree. I did not know it was called self-actualization, but what DB has presented here does not seem to go against the process of knowing thyself, and may act as a guide, of sorts. Like I said, I've got to get to the library, before I say too much about something I know so little about. The search for truth within, the challenge to be vigorously honest, and the yearning for growth has been with me for many years, as well. I've had my vacations, I'll admit. Still, in my opinion, there is not a greater trip than personal progress.

And, yes, DB, my books are late, as usual. Tomorrow, my rented videos will be late, too. Sue me, right. Oh, well, er, they have done that too.
 

Artifice Orisit

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This is a great post, one I'll be saving a copy in fact.

Although I must question one bit,
Man is basically good not evil.
Psychopathology generally results from the denial, frustration or twisting of our essential nature.
I believe people are inherently monstrous but we choose to be better than what we are. In this way virtuous acts are that much better because they are performed in spite of one's nature, not because people have an inherent disposition to be virtuous. In much the same way a machine designed to help people can’t be considered kind because that is the task it was made for, it never made the choice to be kind.

I like to think I'm an idealist, in my own cynical way.
 

dwags222

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i agree with cognisant. man left to his natural impulses will naturally lean towards maliciousness. it is the rational application of our moral intuition which allows us to rise above our "evil" nature.
 

Da Blob

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This is a great post, one I'll be saving a copy in fact.

Although I must question one bit,
I believe people are inherently monstrous but we choose to be better than what we are. In this way virtuous acts are that much better because they are performed in spite of one's nature, not because people have an inherent disposition to be virtuous. In much the same way a machine designed to help people can’t be considered kind because that is the task it was made for, it never made the choice to be kind.

I like to think I'm an idealist, in my own cynical way.

You again!
This assumption was part of a fad in psychology. Maslow and a handful of others are credited with establishing the school of Positive Psychology. Carl Rogers who claim to fame was Client-centered therapy was a part of this group. It was in part a reaction to the de-humanizing of clients in prior decades, which cut a lot of people off from receiving help. Even now the idea of going to a 'Shrink'' still carries negative connotations, so the idea that "people are inherently good" really has not caught on yet...
 

Artifice Orisit

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You've taken my interest, get used it.

Few people interest me. :D
 

Da Blob

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i agree with cognisant. man left to his natural impulses will naturally lean towards maliciousness. it is the rational application of our moral intuition which allows us to rise above our "evil" nature.

There are many different kinds of Self-ishness. Some kinds are considered Evil, Others are considered to be Altruistic. There is a primitive type of Selfishness, that most people grow out of, but I do not believe that this is necessarily an evil type, just an immature form. It is not such a leap to state that people are inherently immature... (Instead of inherently evil)
 

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I believe people are inherently monstrous but we choose to be better than what we are. In this way virtuous acts are that much better because they are performed in spite of one's nature, not because people have an inherent disposition to be virtuous. In much the same way a machine designed to help people can’t be considered kind because that is the task it was made for, it never made the choice to be kind.

I disagree. I believe that alone, people are quite good natured, it is when we are in groups that the sheep factor takes over. One man alone would not have the motivation to commit the atrocities that mankind has done.

In my view humans are stupid, greedy and selfish but still good.

Oh and i don't think that there has been a single human being in the history of the world who has had all the characteristics on that self-actualisation list.
 

dwags222

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Oh and i don't think that there has been a single human being in the history of the world who has had all the characteristics on that self-actualisation list.

oh i bet there have been plenty. it isn't as far fetched as it seems once you learn how to start doing those things. i think studying the process here would be interesting, because i don't think striving for the named characteristics is the way to go. i never really read about self-actualization. i sort of just understood the term as meaning "to be fully your best self." i doubt the people maslow studied would be able to cognize the list either. yet those who become-self actualized have those traits. very interesting.
 

dwags222

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Historically, we are in a value interregnum in which all externally given value systems have proven failures (political, economic, religious, etc.) e.g., nothing is worth dying for.

this is a sad statement. it is not necessarily the value systems themselves which have failed, but the imperfect human application of the value systems. this fact is missed far too often by far too many people.

does anyone else think that the whole self-actualization thing just seems to be describing mature intp/infp's? i mean, the thing is strongly suggestive of both I's and P's. An EJ would have a much harder time becoming actualized as it is described. I suspect that actualization takes a far different form for EJ's and other different types.
 

Da Blob

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does anyone else think that the whole self-actualization thing just seems to be describing mature intp/infp's? i mean, the thing is strongly suggestive of both I's and P's. An EJ would have a much harder time becoming actualized as it is described. I suspect that actualization takes a far different form for EJ's and other different types.

Yes, I was wondering if anyone else was going to pick up on that fact!:rolleyes:
 

Mud~Eye

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Hmm, not bad. It would seem I'm mostly self actualised. At my young age, there's only so much I can do.

I don't know how old you are, but I recognized that I was more self-actualized as a younger person than I am today. Seems my mission in life, these days, is to act as a warning sign that says "wrong way", but whatever...Ermine "just say no", when your instincts/intuition tell you to, or perhaps when the common sense of another does. To regress is possible, and even likely to be normal here and there, but to exist in its grip for an extended period of time, not beneficial. Am I sharing fear or truth? Experience. Am I giving unsolicited advse? So what. If I could "Bill and Ted" my younger self, I'd f*ing do it. So, you get to be me. This is how I would love me. Take it as you will.

sidenote topic: Learning How To Live: If anyone thinks the above is not a useful way of sharing experience, and may actually do harm, by all means, share your reasoning with me via private message. I am too old to reject constructive critisism, so do it nicely, but do it. Thanks.

I tend to exist in agreement with Cog and others regarding the propensity in humans to harm others, even ignorantly and unintentionally. I believe this about myself, too, obviously. (I can't quite trust that I don't have to explain to you guys that I am also referring to me as a human, and not "judging" everyone else or making myself exempt from observations, beliefs, ideas, theories, etc... Bare with me as I learn to trust).

But DB has made a good, and not unfamiliar, point of selfish, self-centered immaturity as the core of this possible condition. I had not thought to put those theories together in that way (Damnit! Oh, and, way to go DB). I suspect many opposing views may actually work together. Evil not being "wrong", in the sense that it doesn't exist just because immaturity may be "right", in the sense that it may ultimately be the cause or one of the causes of evil. Perhaps to say its the cause is completely inaccurate, but my point is that both may be true or have a truth that somehow works together. Is this immature thinking? Is this an obvious suspicion to an INTP, or too idealistic to be considered logical? Would making a thread for these questions be a better idea than inviting discussion here. Probably. Sorry. Consider them, meandering out loud.
 

Mud~Eye

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Well, I suspect there are many ways a person can go backward rather than forward. In my case, I believe it was as I mentioned, ignoring my intuition/instincts for something I wanted right now (immediate gratification), and not ever accepting the common sense of someone else, especially if I'd already decided that I couldn't trust that source. Now, I tend to run things by trusted sources, just in case the asshole is right. Too vague? Let me know, I'll send you a private message, if you'd like.
 

Da Blob

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I don't know how old you are, but I recognized that I was more self-actualized as a younger person than I am today. Seems my mission in life, these days, is to act as a warning sign that says "wrong way", but whatever...Ermine "just say no", when your instincts/intuition tell you to, or perhaps when the common sense of another does. To regress is possible, and even likely to be normal here and there, but to exist in its grip for an extended period of time, not beneficial. Am I sharing fear or truth? Experience. Am I giving unsolicited advse? So what. If I could "Bill and Ted" my younger self, I'd f*ing do it. So, you get to be me. This is how I would love me. Take it as you will.

Actually I think you did a lot of good and very little harm with the above statements. One of my favorite quotes goes something like this "Self Respect is the fruit of Discipline, It is a Dignity, that grows in relationship with One's ability to say "No" to One's Self" This ability is that of forming boundaries using the words 'No" "Not Me" and "Not Again"
Also As an "Old Fart", I agree that one should Never, Ever discount Experiences for they are the units of Life..


sidenote topic: Learning How To Live: ...
with me as I learn to trust.

(Sounds like a good title to a new thread)

But DB has made a good, and not unfamiliar, point of selfish, self-centered immaturity as the core of this possible condition. I had not thought to put those theories together in that way (Damnit! Oh, and, way to go DB). I suspect many opposing views may actually work together. Evil not being "wrong", in the sense that it doesn't exist just because immaturity may be "right", in the sense that it may ultimately be the cause or one of the causes of evil. Perhaps to say its the cause is completely inaccurate, but my point is that both may be true or have a truth that somehow works together.

I think that one of the advantages of thinking like an INTP is that we realize that the truth can not be grasped from a single POV, because a single POV can only provide a linear one dimensional perspective. Considering two opposing POVs allows one to view an issue two-dimensionally. What we do around here on occasions is to actually get a 3-D image of an issue that so many others simply can not perceive.

Is this immature thinking? Is this an obvious suspicion to an INTP, or too idealistic to be considered logical? Would making a thread for these questions be a better idea than inviting discussion here. Probably. Sorry. Consider them, meandering out loud.

We can discuss it here, it is not off topic at all, and it would not matter that much if it were. However, for your own benefit, you can go ahead and flesh out the ideas you have brought forth and start a new thread...
...
 

Da Blob

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I'm almost 18. And just curious, how does one end up retrogressing as an adult?

Ah! It is Good to still be curious at the age of 18, many that age have discarded it. One ret-rogresses by not making p-rogresses...

How one regresses as an adult "will depend in large part on how similar the present situation is to past experiences and how accurately the individual decides what overlaps with the past and what is new. If the overlap is small but the individual fails to recognize this, then a great deal is being transferred into this new encounter from past experiences. It might be said that they are bring too much baggage with them. If the overlap is large, the baggage is less evident.
Consider, for example, a person going to a country that he or she has never been to before. He or she takes along the map that previous explorers created and refined across numerous visits. Most of the sites encountered appear on the map, and this is a comfort. Only when the traveler runs into things that are not on the map is it suddenly clear how much he or she depends on what has been on the old map from the past to deal with a strange, new place. In addition, the discovery that the map is not perfect serves as a reason for the traveler to pay more attention to what is in front of him or her at the moment. Had the map been a very bad one and this had been found out earlier, he or she might have noticed more during the trip, because it was necessary to pay attention to keep from getting lost.
A similar process is at work, in group experiences. Whatever the case, be the overlap small or large, a transference is occurring that can be seen as treating the present as though it were the past, so that members can move quickly through the uncertainty of the present toward a more certain future. This transfer process involves an individual's return to an older type of operating in order to deal with the present, a dynamic called Regression. Paradoxically, individuals eager to do something New, or Progress, need to be able to engage in this Regression in order to Separate which experiences are merely History, from those which are happening in the Here and Now."

Da Blob
CONFUSION THREAD
 

Mud~Eye

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this is living?
We can discuss it here, it is not off topic at all, and it would not matter that much if it were. However, for your own benefit, you can go ahead and flesh out the ideas you have brought forth and start a new thread...
...
I'm not ready to flesh anything out. That's like jumping into the deep end of the pool, and I am still wading, Sir. (The cowardly dragon shakes in her boots). I just wanted to chime in with what I did have, which, apparently were more questions than answers. A tested and certain sword will come along, I'm sure. I'm happy to apprentice, slowly...
 

Artifice Orisit

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Wow, so much to absorb...

Okay in reference to the relation between EJ types & self-actualisation,
Is it not possible that in the attempt to classify "self-actualised people" we have instead characterized our idea of the "Ideal Intellectual"? If so what does this imply?
 

snafupants

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Da Blob, this article is fantastic. I really like the last step to self-actualization. That is, identifying one's strengths and weaknesses, and then exploiting the former and giving up defenses on the latter; this notion of vulnerability really resonating with me. The end result of such a procedure seems to be rendering everything a strength and pleasure.

Which brings me to the part about eroding dichotomies. This reminds me of the non-dual ideal in many religious contexts. Beautiful article!
 

Da Blob

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Yes this is a "Deep Concept" Maslow pointed out that much of human behavior is threat-related and the threats do not even have to be real threats, imagined threats can trigger defensive behavior and attitudes as well (LOL, well do I know that, people are imagining that i threaten them constantly, when such is not the case) In the construction of psychological defense mechanisms to deal with threat, one constructs a internal fortress of sorts. unfortunately, this "fortress", that provides shelter and safety from change of any kind" serves as a prison as well.

It is so sad that so many see any kind of change immediately as a threat, whereas a minority see changes in the environment as possible opportunities for growth. If One learns to discard the necessity for safety and security to find nothing threatening about being vulnerable, then a tremendous freedom to explore reality ensues.

The stupid forts don't work all that well anyway, I think I will take my chances in the "Open Field" where at least I have the added options of fighting or fleeing, instead of just being paralyzed and freezing into immobility in a fort/prison...
 

NoID10ts

aka Noddy
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It is so sad that so many see any kind of change immediately as a threat, whereas a minority see changes in the environment as possible opportunities for growth. If One learns to discard the necessity for safety and security to find nothing threatening about being vulnerable, then a tremendous freedom to explore reality ensues.

The stupid forts don't work all that well anyway, I think I will take my chances in the "Open Field" where at least I have the added options of fighting or fleeing, instead of just being paralyzed and freezing into immobility in a fort/prison...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Does no one else see the irony/humor in this?

:D



Oh sorry. Carry on. :ninjahide:
 

wadlez

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I used to really like the idea of self actualization when i first heard of it but have since become skeptical.
I think self actualization is an ideal that, like most ideals, cannot ever actually be realized in reality. Many of the people the humanists based self actualization on as people who had achieved this were historical figures and not many regular people. These people no doubt had their story's and characters distorted to be legends and so would not be an actual representation of the individuals.
It also seems like this prospect would only be really possible for INTP's, as the direction of this goal is not primarily objective and basically requires the values and interests of an INTP.
It almost seems like the people who most subscribe to this see themselves as self actualizing and are pushing this onto others as a subtle means to suggest that other lifestyles and paths are lesser
 

ijustprotectedmyidentity

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i'd like to think as someone like bill gates to be an example of self-actualization. profound knowledge on all matters, globally and has been tested many times and passed. (running micrsofot, now i never read about how he ran it , it might have been an easy journey)

btw u left out maslows final super sayain state of being. self transendence!! were maslow states something like selflessness and wililng to accept and help others

maslow had an iq of over 180, he married his cousin. he loved to read books in the library
 

Vrecknidj

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I'm too tired to go look it up right now. Does anyone remember the quote by Jung regarding the changes in a person's life after one's middle age? There's this profound quote about how much things change, etc., etc.

I wanted to post that for the younger participants here.

Dave
 

bloozie

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I would consider myself to be 100% self-actualized. Although, there is always room to improve!
 
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