Any INTP MBAs out there?

[einstein]

Like most INTPs I'm lost regarding my career and would appreciate any suggestions/thoughts.

I have a top 5 MBA but unfortunately, couldn't make it in top management consulting firms. Consulting was as close as I got to being excited about a career because of variability, use of analytical power, exit options, prestige, etc . But given how I despise stress, tight deadlines, "facetime" and all the sucking up that's in the consulting industry, may be they were correct in rejecting me. I really enjoyed doing case preps, for instance (for those who know what it means), but may be that's all there was to it. My background is in Finance, but most of it is international, so I don't have access to Corporate Strategy/Development roles at tech firms, as an example, which are highly coveted because they offer most of the good things from consulting with a more manageable lifestyle. Would appreciate any advice.

As a side note, I really regret not paying more attention to MBTI during business school as it so accurately describes the challenges that we face. For instance, as a small example, I usually didn't tell anyone that I dreaded doing routine tasks (at least in the professional circles) because I feared it would make appear entitled. Instead of building on my strengths, I felt bad for having "weaknesses" and tried to improve them.

 

[tyjdx]

I've felt many of those same frustrations, and while I won't say I have everything figured out, I certainly have found getting involved in small business extremely helpful. They're not so great for the stress (necessarily) but they do allow you to wear a lot of hats and flex problem solving muscles without all the gross corporate-ness of consulting for established companies.

 

[einstein]

Thanks for the reply. Targeting start-ups has always been on my list. A few comments (of course a true INTP has to find something wrong with everything):
-Regular small businesses (basically, not a hot start-up) won't be able cover my bills and student loans
-I don't know how to code, and there are too many MBAs with finance skills out there with more brands on their resume. Though it does fit well with the profile, coding didn't appeal to me. May be I need to put more effort into it and once I start seeing results it will get better?
-Joining a start-up is such a hit or miss in terms of fit, unless you know someone who works there really well.

Again, if i had known about my personality, I would have made more effort to choose some specialty and ideally independently consult with it and for rest of the time pursue my interests. Oh well, can't change the past.

 

[Kuu]

I think most INTPs would rather kill themselves than suffer the slow suicide of an MBA...

Don't you have any of your university peers that you can leverage to get a job you like? Business is so much about networking, I'd expect that MBA's would know of it.

Also, are you sure you don't have unrealistic expectations of your value and swift success in the corporate rat race?

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

Like most INTPs I'm lost regarding my career and would appreciate any suggestions/thoughts.

I have a top 5 MBA but unfortunately, couldn't make it in top management consulting firms. Consulting was as close as I got to being excited about a career because of variability, use of analytical power, exit options, prestige, etc . But given how I despise stress, tight deadlines, "facetime" and all the sucking up that's in the consulting industry, may be they were correct in rejecting me. I really enjoyed doing case preps, for instance (for those who know what it means), but may be that's all there was to it. My background is in Finance, but most of it is international, so I don't have access to Corporate Strategy/Development roles at tech firms, as an example, which are highly coveted because they offer most of the good things from consulting with a more manageable lifestyle. Would appreciate any advice.

As a side note, I really regret not paying more attention to MBTI during business school as it so accurately describes the challenges that we face. For instance, as a small example, I usually didn't tell anyone that I dreaded doing routine tasks (at least in the professional circles) because I feared it would make appear entitled. Instead of building on my strengths, I felt bad for having "weaknesses" and tried to improve them.

Ti is our thing. I.e. introverted thinking.

We may as well have downs syndrome as far as our ability to intuit all that feeling and "sucking up" expectation that occurs in the social milieu we are forced to endure.

There is a graph another user posted recently which demonstrated that a certain research study indicated that the vast majority of executives are INTJ, ENTJ, ESTJs and I forget the other. INTPs are not the norm for executive positions, though not unheard of.

Extroverted Thinking persons, in other words.

IMO we INTPs are just too myopically focused on our own pet interests because of our Ti to be competitive with Te folks on a consistent level. That is our deep understanding of details and how they relate to other details doesn't compete with the Te folks' ability to relate their deep understanding of details (analysis) to the real world social milieu. Their Te fueled strategery trumps our Ti fueled analysis in real world social situations everytime. Competition is not Ti's strong suit. The business world is Te dominated in my experience. And the backdrop is 100% social competition which Te folks naturally understand how to navigate.

OP, have you thought about teaching? Professorship at the level of MBA classes? Your top 5 MBA would likely open doors. Academics is one arena where Ti, introverted thinking, is highly congruous with career success.

If I knew of my INTP nature earlier in life (late teens early twenties) I would have aimed for academia.

 

[Inquisitor]

Thanks for the reply. Targeting start-ups has always been on my list. A few comments (of course a true INTP has to find something wrong with everything):
-Regular small businesses (basically, not a hot start-up) won't be able cover my bills and student loans
-I don't know how to code, and there are too many MBAs with finance skills out there with more brands on their resume. Though it does fit well with the profile, coding didn't appeal to me. May be I need to put more effort into it and once I start seeing results it will get better?
-Joining a start-up is such a hit or miss in terms of fit, unless you know someone who works there really well.

Again, if i had known about my personality, I would have made more effort to choose some specialty and ideally independently consult with it and for rest of the time pursue my interests. Oh well, can't change the past.

I hope this thread doesn't characterize the mentality of your MBA classmates:

Wall Street Oasis**

Seriously though, I did the management consulting thing in Shanghai for a little while. Didn't really appeal much. The case prep (especially for interviews) was kind of fun I have to admit. But once on the job, there's not too much strategizing/creativity I found. Lots of searching for stats online. It's mostly cookie-cutter kind of stuff, just follow the formula, get those PPT slides done and off to the next. Get as many interviews as possible when doing research, then give the client the information machine-gun style, fast, efficient, direct-like.

Now I worked in a small (but prestigious) firm focused on industrials, so I don't know what it's like at the Big 3. I was rejected as well there when I applied out of undergrad. A relative is extremely high-up at one of the Big 3, and he is most definitely not an INTP. My impression is that those jobs are for the ENTJ/INTJs of the world. Certainly seems to attract some of the most ambitious people on the planet.

As for your situation, you can have a look at this website for career lists. Here is what they suggest in terms of business careers:

Compliance Officer
Cost Estimator
Logistician
Management Analyst
Market Research Analyst
Real Estate Appraiser and Assessor

Another favorite website of mine for INTP careers:

Personality Junkie

As you can see, business careers on the whole are kind of a mediocre choice for INTPs. We seem to prefer more technical occupations. Ever thought of leveraging your MBA to try and squeeze a PhD out of it doing research for one of the top business schools? I would think that's much more up your alley. As for coding, I'm actually going back to school right now to get a degree in computer science. Coding takes some getting used to. I can't say I'm passionate about it, but I'm going to "give it the old college try" for better or worse. LOL.

**My favorite responses to the OP from that thread [INTP am I Screwed in Banking?]:

"Seriously, psychology is for those with two x chromosomes..."
"And anthro? For HOT XX folks...."
"you're so fucked dude"
"OP is clearly XXY"

WSO is not a good place to hang out to talk about this kind of stuff...

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

I hope this thread doesn't characterize the mentality of your MBA classmates:

Wall Street Oasis

Seriously though, I did the management consulting thing in Shanghai for a little while. Didn't really appeal much. The case prep (especially for interviews) was kind of fun I have to admit. But once on the job, there's not too much strategizing/creativity I found. Lots of searching for stats online. It's mostly cookie-cutter kind of stuff, just follow the formula, get those PPT slides done and off to the next. Get as many interviews as possible when doing research, then give the client the information machine-gun style, fast, efficient, direct-like.

Now I worked in a small (but prestigious) firm focused on industrials, so I don't know what it's like at the Big 3. I was rejected as well there when I applied out of undergrad. A relative is extremely high-up at one of the Big 3, and he is most definitely not an INTP. My impression is that those jobs are for the ENTJ/INTJs of the world. Certainly seems to attract some of the most ambitious people on the planet.

As for your situation, you can have a look at this website for career lists. Here is what they suggest in terms of business careers:

Compliance Officer
Cost Estimator
Logistician
Management Analyst
Market Research Analyst
Real Estate Appraiser and Assessor

Another favorite website of mine for INTP careers:

Personality Junkie

As you can see, business careers on the whole are kind of a mediocre choice for INTPs. We seem to prefer more technical occupations. Ever thought of leveraging your MBA to try and squeeze a PhD out of it doing research for one of the top business schools? I would think that's much more up your alley. As for coding, I'm actually going back to school right now to get a degree in computer science. Coding takes some getting used to. I can't say I'm passionate about it, but I'm going to "give it the old college try" for better or worse. LOL.

Inquisitor I said in my post above,

"There is a graph another user posted recently which demonstrated that a certain research study indicated that the vast majority of executives are INTJ, ENTJ, ESTJs and I forget the other. INTPs are not the norm for executive positions, though not unheard of."

That user was you if I remember correctly. Can you repost that image? If you agree with me I think it is relevant to this thread...

 

[Inquisitor]

Inquisitor I said in my post above,

"There is a graph another user posted recently which demonstrated that a certain research study indicated that the vast majority of executives are INTJ, ENTJ, ESTJs and I forget the other. INTPs are not the norm for executive positions, though not unheard of."

That user was you if I remember correctly. Can you repost that image? If you agree with me I think it is relevant to this thread...

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

View attachment 2630

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Thanks!

 

[Absurdity]

If you don't like stress or tight deadlines you should not join a startup.

 

[tyjdx]

If you don't like stress or tight deadlines you should not join a startup.

Startups can definitely have a lot of stress involved, but I've found that if you're working with good people that stress is more from existential problems than artificially created deadlines etc. (i.e. it's the same stress you'd have anyway). For me, anyway, the artificial deadlines are what kill me, and stress that's manufactured ruins my productivity. The desire to be successful and the stresses that go with that seem to energize me, or at least not be too painful. </allaboutme>

-I don't know how to code, and there are too many MBAs with finance skills out there with more brands on their resume. Though it does fit well with the profile, coding didn't appeal to me. May be I need to put more effort into it and once I start seeing results it will get better?

In this day and age, I think putting some effort into coding would do you a world of good, both for personal productivity and for job prospects. With my IT background I'm definitely biased for saying that, but my ability to understand and write code along with the hardware that executes it has opened up a wealth of possibilities.

 

[scorpiomover]

Like most INTPs I'm lost regarding my career and would appreciate any suggestions/thoughts.

Play to your strengths. If you want to get ahead in a career, why not make best use of your best skills?

Put another way: pick those jobs and projects, that would suit your talents much better than other types.

By all means, improve your weaknesses. but they won't change overnight. So you can't expect to rely on them, until they improve.

What many people do in high positions, which seems to be Js, and especially INTJs, is they also don't rely on their weaknesses, and rely on their strengths. They just make a big effort to publicise their successes, and try to keep their failures as private and as unknown as possible. They also publicise their weaknesses, but almost exclusively only once they've overcome those weaknesses and have become strengths. So that's just a back-handed way of praising their strengths anyway, and trying to make people think they don't have any weaknesses anymore. So it's not like Js are different to Ps in terms of playing to their strengths.

I have a top 5 MBA but unfortunately, couldn't make it in top management consulting firms. Consulting was as close as I got to being excited about a career because of variability, use of analytical power, exit options, prestige, etc . But given how I despise stress, tight deadlines, "facetime" and all the sucking up that's in the consulting industry, may be they were correct in rejecting me. I really enjoyed doing case preps, for instance (for those who know what it means), but may be that's all there was to it.

Sounds like you prefer tasks that require a lot of time at research and analysis, where you won't be under pressure, and where so few other people put that kind of work in, that you'll be extremely highly valued and sought after, and won't be required to suck up at all.

My background is in Finance, but most of it is international, so I don't have access to Corporate Strategy/Development roles at tech firms, as an example, which are highly coveted because they offer most of the good things from consulting with a more manageable lifestyle. Would appreciate any advice.

Big corporations are highly coveted. For that reason, they also get lots of people with lesser ability, who figure that they can blag their way in. So to weed out the weak candidates, they tend to rely on standardised tests that test in-depth knowledge and deep understanding with highly complex questions. In other words, exactly the sorts of problems you are good at and enjoy. Plus, they have a plethora of strategic people anyway.

What big corporations usually need but cannot get for love nor money, are those that can really dive in to something incredibly complex that requires a truly astoundingly complex level of analysis. They have plenty of work. They also have plenty of people who can do the technically-straightforward tasks. But they also get technically-complex work from their clients, and if they refuse to do that work, they'll lose the client, because the client wouldn't be asking them to do such complex work unless it was absolutely vital. So there's usually plenty of technically-complex work that they absolutely have to have done, and done right. As it's so complex, and thus so easy to get wrong, time is not an issue on such work. So such work is usually right up your street, and due to the lack of personnel who are good at such work and willing to do it day after day, they usually want anyone there to stay. Promotions occur, but more to expand on one's skills and to rise up within one's niche, which usually rarely ever ends, because the work is so important, and there's so few who can do it and are willing to do it.

All an INTP has to do with such companies, is just be himself. Either they'll be so in need of your type of skills, that they cannot be persuaded to not sign you up then and there, or they'll just keep finding reasons why you would be an unsuitable hire and would be better off somewhere else, and you don't want to work for them, because they are likely to want an INTP to do things extremely quickly and under a lot of pressure.

 

[einstein]

Thanks a lot everyone. It is remarkable that I've learned more about myself within the last 2 weeks than in my ~30 years. That's one of the reasons why I still have no clue what I want to do - I desperately tried to improve my weaknesses while not knowing/taking advantage of my strengths and interests, which had me escaping from one job to the other, based on what sounded right. The thing is, and I'm guessing I'm not alone here, until I get bored with the job, I do quite well (but to Kuu's point, I may be overestimating the amount of stress/bullshit I can handle. I worried about this a lot, because I don't perform well under stress at all, but I figured better try and give up, then give up simply because I lacked confidence or understanding of the world.), but once the boredom kicks in my performance goes south and it's just a downward spiral.

I will write a more detailed response a bit later, but really appreciate the input. I have always enjoyed good things in life and despite my INTP personality + occasional anxiety have been very ambitious. The image of me being a cost estimator instead of the next Warren Buffet makes dizzy.

On another note, over the course of the last few months I shifted from being a brutal capitalist to a Marxist - reading books all day sounds so nice I think a few generations from now we will have sufficient wealth to create such an utopia and let INTPs enjoy their lives as they please.

 

[Inquisitor]

The image of me being a cost estimator instead of the next Warren Buffet makes dizzy.

I had the same feelings regarding medicine. I wanted to become a neurosurgeon at one point very badly. Later realized it was my inferior (Fe) craving validation from others. I discovered it's not about being a certain kind of person that's most important; it's doing work that plays to your natural strengths. The fulfillment follows directly from that.

 

[einstein]

I had the same feelings regarding medicine. I wanted to become a neurosurgeon at one point very badly. Later realized it was my inferior (Fe) craving validation from others. I discovered it's not about being a certain kind of person that's most important; it's doing work that plays to your natural strengths. The fulfillment follows directly from that.

Yes, I read your analysis of your career decisions on another thread as well, great points, thanks.

I've never really actively participated in a forum before, but I find the user experience incredibly frustrating. It's crazy that the UI/UX hasn't changed! I think I just found my next entrepreneurship idea

 

[einstein]

Play to your strengths. If you want to get ahead in a career, why not make best use of your best skills?

Put another way: pick those jobs and projects, that would suit your talents much better than other types.

Agreed. Everyone in bschool kept screaming that selling is not being taught enough and that everyone should practice more of it. People still keep telling me to get sales jobs just to get the valuable experience. Don't get me wrong, selling is crucial, and no one is magically good at it in an instant, but what's probably more likely to happen is you're going to discover you now have to change careers while your former boss thinks you suck. People overestimate the change they can undergo through, in my opinion. I am now more wary of my shortcomings. But that's at the risk of accepting the status quo.
Can you please elaborate more on what sort of comprehensive/research problem solving you had in mind? Internal strategy units at corporations are incredibly small and highly sought after. Otherwise, one would need to specialize in something mind-numbingly boring such as regulation, tax, compliance, etc. Thanks for a great point.

 

[einstein]

I think most INTPs would rather kill themselves than suffer the slow suicide of an MBA...

Don't you have any of your university peers that you can leverage to get a job you like? Business is so much about networking, I'd expect that MBA's would know of it.

Also, are you sure you don't have unrealistic expectations of your value and swift success in the corporate rat race?

MBA was actually a lot of fun for me. Can't beat the intellectual stimulation. I would sit in on additional classes/talks without signing up so that I wouldn't have to do BS coursework. It's expensive, becoming more irrelevant with each day and is mostly filled with overexcited middle school kids pretending to be adults, but for what it's worth I enjoyed it. I wish I could be a professional student (without all the homework and a fat bonus of course).