Wonka's Street Corner Preaching (split from Degrees of Freedom)

[Rook]

@Wonkavison
Sarcasm? Or delusion?

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

@Wonkavison
Sarcasm? Or delusion?

I'm DEAD SERIOUS.

I'm telling you THE TRUTH.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Many things, all written in the Bible, but summed up in this ONE GLORIOUS thing:

To glorify himself in the salvation of chosen sinners, and to declare his righteousness to all the world.


Chosen sinners, meaning that GOD HIMSELF chose them, according to his OWN purpose and grace, not by their WORKS, lest any man should BOAST. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

It pleased God to bruise his Son, to make an offering for sin, and "By his knowledge" the "righteous Servant shall justify many." (Isaiah 53:10-11)


That, in a nutshell. is the WILL and DESIRE of God, and JESUS CHRIST has ACCOMPLISHED that will.


If you want to know more, read the Bible. And get under the preaching of the Gospel.




That's correct.

EVERYTHING that comes to pass was ORDAINED by God Almighty.

There is NOTHING that comes to pass that is NOT his will.

Is it not possible and even probable that if there is a god it could be in his will to let things occur outside his will?

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Is it not possible and even probable that if there is a god it could be in his will to let things occur outside his will?

No. That's completely ILLOGICAL.

If ANYTHING could happen OUTSIDE of God's will, then he would CEASE to be GOD.

It's THAT PLAIN and SIMPLE.

He would CEASE to be ALL-POWERFUL.

End of story.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

No. That's completely ILLOGICAL.

If ANYTHING could happen OUTSIDE of God's will, the he would CEASE to be GOD.

It's THAT PLAIN and SIMPLE.

He would CEASE to be ALL-POWERFUL.

End of story.

Must I explain potential? It would be funny to see a professional baseball player throwing 90 mile an hour balls at a three year old because he is afraid people will think he is not a real baseball player. I think just because he does not exercise his power does not mean he does not have it.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Must I explain potential? It would be funny to see a professional baseball player throwing 90 mile an hour balls at a three year old because he is afraid people will think he is not a real baseball player. I think just because he does not exercise his power does not mean he does not have it.

Grayman, my 5 year old understands the difference between ALL-POWERFUL and NOT ALL-POWERFUL.

If you don't understand, then you are DELIBERATELY TRYING NOT to understand.


The question is: WHY are you trying NOT to understand?

The answer is: You KNOW what the IMPLICATIONS are.


You KNOW that you are SUBJECT to GOD.

Your CONSCIENCE screams out that it's so.


Romans 1:18-32

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

And JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF said, in John 3:16-21

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

You see, GOD KNOWS that YOU KNOW you are EVIL.

Yet, you refuse to admit it, and WILL NOT come to the light, UNLESS GOD is PLEASED to SAVE YOU.

Your salvation DEPENDS on God's will.

Acts 4:11-12

"This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Come to Christ and be saved, or be damned for all eternity.

There are NO other OPTIONS, it's ONE or the OTHER.


And ultimately GOD HIMSELF will determine which way it goes.

That's it.

If you BOW to HIS WILL, you are SAVED.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Grayman, my 5 year old understands the difference between ALL-POWERFUL and NOT ALL-POWERFUL.

If you don't understand, then you are DELIBERATELY TRYING NOT to understand.


The question is: WHY are you trying NOT to understand?

The answer is: You KNOW what the IMPLICATIONS are.


You KNOW that you are SUBJECT to GOD.

Your CONSCIENCE screams out that it's so.


Romans 1:18-32



And JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF said, in John 3:16-21



You see, GOD KNOWS that YOU KNOW you are EVIL.

Yet, you refuse to admit it, and WILL NOT come to the light, UNLESS GOD is PLEASED to SAVE YOU.

Your salvation DEPENDS on God's will.

Come to Christ and be saved, or be damned for all eternity.

There are NO other OPTIONS, it's ONE or the OTHER.

And GOD HIMSELF will determine which way it goes.

That's it.

If you BOW to HIS WILL, you are SAVED.

You should just make that last part your signature and save yourself the time of rewriting it everytime you respond to me.

Well I know I am crazy but I did not realize I had gotten so bad as not to understand powerful. I guess power is only power when you have no choice but to use it. *sigh woe is me who has no power over my own violence because I choose not to murder, ohhh woe is me who has no power over speech because I choose to be silent. Woe is ME! Who has no power over woefullness because I choose not to be woefully woed into woeing.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

You should just make that last part your signature and save yourself the time of rewriting it everytime you respond to me.

Well I know I am crazy but I did not realize I had gotten so bad as not to understand powerful. I guess power is only power when you have no choice but to use it. *sigh woe is me who has no power over my own violence because I choose not to murder, ohhh woe is me who has no power over speech because I choose to be silent. Woe is ME! Who has no power over woefullness because I choose not to be woefully woed into woeing.

You're just flailing around and grasping for straws.

You know it and everyone who reads your post knows it.


You know what to do. The question is: WILL you DO IT?

You will ONLY IF God has MERCY on you.

 

[OldCoyote]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

@wonkavision

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

This is what Saul did to the bible, I hardly consider him to be an authority seeing as how he only met JC in the spirit.

God is not a noun, it's a verb. Verbs don't have beards,sandals,or live in the clouds.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

@wonkavision

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

This is what Saul did to the bible, I hardly consider him to be an authority seeing as how he only met JC in the spirit.

God is not a noun, it's a verb. Verbs don't have beards,sandals,or live in the clouds.

You're wrong.

Saul became PAUL, and he was the Apostle of Christ.

He was absolutely UNSWERVING in his devotion to the Gospel.


And GOD became a MAN, the GOD-MAN Jesus Christ.

PAUL knew that.

Here are the words of Paul to Timothy (in 1 Timothy 2:5):

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

It just DOESN'T get any CLEARER than THAT.

 

[OldCoyote]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Saul became an apostle the same way Muhammad did..

Spoiler

 

[Rook]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Saul became an apostle the same way Muhammad did..

Spoiler

Congratulations, you wily desert beast, you have refuted the unrefutable with the cunning placement of an image. Kudos.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Saul became an apostle the same way Muhammad did..

No, Paul was a genuine apostle.

Muhammed was a false prophet.


Right now, you're on VERY DANGEROUS GROUND.


You're resisting the HOLY SPIRIT when you RESIST the Word of God.


Those who oppose the Spirit might as well jump off of a cliff.


Christ said:

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

(Matthew 12:30-32)

Better think twice before spouting off the next lie about God.


And that goes for ALL of you in this thread.

You've been warned.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

You're just flailing around and grasping for straws.

You know it and everyone who reads your post knows it.


You know what to do. The question is: WILL you DO IT?

You will ONLY IF God has MERCY on you.

Damn, I thought I was being tricky like a ... Fox! ... Guess I am just a lost cause. I'm going back to my cookies.

Well, I HOPE Jesus has mercy on YOU.

 

[Cognisant]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

People, don't shout on the internet.

Makes you look crazy.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

No, Paul was a genuine apostle.

Muhammed was a false prophet.


Right now, you're on VERY DANGEROUS GROUND.


You're resisting the HOLY SPIRIT when you RESIST the Word of God.


Those who oppose the Spirit might as well jump off of a cliff.


Christ said:



Better think twice before spouting off the next lie about God.


And that goes for ALL of you in this thread.

You've been warned.

Actually Paul is a false prophet making way for the Antichrist who is the catholic church. Pure Christians can rarely be found these days.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Damn, I thought I was being tricky like a ... Fox! ... Guess I am just a lost cause. I'm going back to my cookies.

Well, I HOPE Jesus has mercy on YOU.

How am I being tricky?

I keep showing you the Word of God.


Just THROW yourself on the MERCY of GOD.

That's the message.

If you do, I GUARANTEE you'll find mercy.


That's not hard to UNDERSTAND, you JUST don't BELIEVE it.

And you WON'T believe it UNLESS God ENABLES you to.


Once again, the Word of God, in 1 Corinthians 2:14:

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

People, don't shout on the internet.

Makes you look crazy.

Better to LOOK crazy, than to BE crazy.

It's INSANE to FIGHT GOD.

And that's EXACTLY what men do when they deny the truth.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

How am I being tricky?

I keep showing you the Word of God.


Just THROW yourself on the MERCY of GOD.

That's the message.


That's not hard to UNDERSTAND, you JUST don't BELIEVE it.

And you WON'T believe it UNLESS God ENABLES you to.


Once again, the Word of God, in 1 Corinthians 2:14:

You are a wolf in sheep's clothing leading his sheep astray.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

You are a wolf in sheep's clothing leading his sheep astray.

On what basis do you make that accusation?

If I speak the words of God, then you're opposing GOD.


Besides, who I am is IRRELEVANT.

You still need Christ to save you or you'll go to hell.

 

[OldCoyote]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

You're resisting the HOLY SPIRIT when you RESIST the Word of God.

Quanah Parker was right when he said "white people go to church to talk ABOUT Jesus, Native Americans go to church to talk TO Jesus"

I talked to him the other day, he said to tell you to STFU.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Quanah Parker was right when he said "white people go to church to talk ABOUT Jesus, Native Americans go to church to talk TO Jesus"

I talked to him the other day, he said to tell you to STFU.

What on earth does RACE and CULTURE have to do with SALVATION?

God will SAVE some from all races and cultures, and he will DAMN some from all races and cultures.

The ONLY thing that matters is: ARE YOU in CHRIST?

There is salvation ONLY in CHRIST.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

On what basis do you make that accusation?

If I speak the words of God, then you're opposing GOD.


Besides, who I am is IRRELEVANT.

You still need Christ to save you or you'll go to hell.

Through the HOLY SPIRIT I have learned of a man here who would be a wolf and he would look like a sheep but out of his mouth will come false judgement. He will devour those who could be sheep with his pride and false judgment.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Through the HOLY SPIRIT I have learned of a man here who would be a wolf and he would look like a sheep but out of his mouth will come false judgement. He will devour those who could be sheep with his pride and false judgment.

If what I'm saying is false, then YES, I AM a false prophet.

But if what I say is TRUE, then you have been warned.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

If what I'm saying is false, then YES, I AM a false prophet.

But if what I say is TRUE, then you have been warned.

I was WARNED that you would say it was TRUE. The SPIRIT showed me that he who SPEAKS FALSELY will even deceive HIMSELF. The SPIRIT guides me and I KNOW what I must do. HE can still SAVE YOU. Just open your heart to his LOVE. Let YOUSELF be OVERWHELMED with JESUS. BE swept away with COMPASION. LOVE all as he loves YOU even in your wayward struggle. RELEASE your grip on judgment and EMBRACE LOVE.

 

[Jennywocky]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

This thread has Poe's Law splattered all over it.

 

[OldCoyote]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Actually Paul is a false prophet making way for the Antichrist who is the catholic church. Pure Christians can rarely be found these days.

^this

Within the New Testament, Paul's conversion experience is discussed in both Paul's own letters and in the book known by the title Acts of the Apostles. According to both sources, Paul was never a follower of Jesus and did not know Jesus before his crucifixion. Instead, he severely persecuted the early Christians. Although Paul refers to himself as an "Apostle" of Jesus, it is clear that Paul was not one of "The Twelve" apostles.[1 Cor. 9:1-2] Paul's conversion occurred after Jesus' crucifixion. The accounts of Paul's conversion experience describe it as miraculous, supernatural, or otherwise revelatory in nature.

Conversion by Holy Spirit

According to the Quran, God sent the Quran to the prophet Muhammad through His angel Gabriel (Jibra'il) and sent a message to most prophets, if not all, revealing their obligations. Gabriel is named numerous times in the Quran (2:97 and 66:4 for example).

Conversion by angel.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

This thread has Poe's Law splattered all over it.

If your trying to get someone to try your cookies, do force them to eat the chocolate chip cookies if they don't like them, or do you give them your oatmeal?

 

[Jennywocky]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Actually Paul is a false prophet making way for the Antichrist who is the catholic church. Pure Christians can rarely be found these days.

As a point of interest, while all the points later are noted and acknowledged [Paul was not an original Twelve and was persecuting/killing Christians for some time until his Damascus Road experience, etc.], and that does leave one wondering about legitimacy here, the disciples chose Matthias I believe to replace Judas, and Matthias is never really heard of again, whereas Paul becomes the most dominant speaker in the rest of the NT.

Obviously not much can deductively argued there, that would be a flawed argument; but I know the understanding is that Paul was divinely chosen to replace the betrayer... kind of poetic justice to replace the worst disciple with someone so unexpected and eventually more prominent. Especially considering Paul's openness to the Gentiles. He actually marketed Christianity to non-Jews. Does anyone think Christianity would have made it past the first century or two, if it had just stayed a Jewish thing?

If your trying to get someone to try your cookies, do force them to eat the chocolate chip cookies if they don't like them, or do you give them your oatmeal?

They can have neither, but I'm willing to shove large pieces of stale fruitcake down their gullets just to get rid of last year's Christmas goodies.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

This thread has Poe's Law splattered all over it.

If you mean that most of the statements people are making are so incredibly ILLOGICAL that they MUST be some kind of JOKE, then I agree.

But somehow I don't think that's what you mean. (That's a "wink" emoticon, by the way, which CLEARLY indicates that I KNOW i'm stating the OBVIOUS.)

 

[OldCoyote]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Can the mods split this into a "reverend wonka" thread?

I would like to continue this scripture debate without cluttering cogs thread.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

If you mean that most of the statements people are making are so incredibly ILLOGICAL that they MUST be some kind of JOKE, then I agree.

But somehow I don't think that's what you mean. (That's a "wink" emoticon, by the way, which CLEARLY indicates that I KNOW i'm stating the OBVIOUS.)

Really, I thought it was because I poked you in the eye.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Can the mods split this into a "reverend wonka" thread?

I would like to continue this scripture debate without cluttering cogs thread.

Sounds good to me.

You guys NEED a whole thread dedicated to this.

If youre gonna keep refuting/quoting the Bible, it would help to actually KNOW what it SAYS.

 

[Jennywocky]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Can the mods split this into a "reverend wonka" thread?

I would like to continue this scripture debate without cluttering cogs thread.

Ironic. I made the same request privately about 10-15 minutes ago. Once Rook took a poke at Wonka and Wonka obliged, Cog's topic was quickly derailed.

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Ironic. I made the same request privately about 10-15 minutes ago. Once Rook took a poke at Wonka and Wonka obliged, Cog's topic was quickly derailed.

Well, it was headed for a steep cliff from the moment it was first posted.

So derailing it was probably the best chance it had.

 

[Absurdity]

For the record, any of your future preachy derails, Wonka, will be moved here as well.

If the pattern persists, you may find yourself confined to Siberia for an extended period of time.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Ironic. I made the same request privately about 10-15 minutes ago. Once Rook took a poke at Wonka and Wonka obliged, Cog's topic was quickly derailed.

I'll take partial responsiblity for the derail, I was compelled to reveal to Wonk what the HOLY SPIRIT revealed to me. It is not wise to say no to GOD.

 

[OldCoyote]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

If youre gonna keep refuting the Bible, it would help to actually KNOW what it SAYS.

Ha.... you would have to know Hebrew & Greek to know what it really says. Contextual translations are what has clouded the waters. It's easy for you to understand because you are reading a TRANSLATION...

Factor that in with the fact the Judaism contains mystical/secret meanings and you get a shitstorm of possible meanings to the same passage of scripture.

 

[wonkavision]

For the record, any of your future preachy derails, Wonka, will be moved here as well.

If the pattern persists, you may find yourself confined to Siberia for an extended period of time.

Thanks for the warning.

And I love the new title. lol

 

[wonkavision]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

Ha.... you would have to know Hebrew & Greek to know what it really says. Contextual translations are what has clouded the waters. It's easy for you to understand because you are reading a TRANSLATION...

Factor that in with the fact the Judaism contains mystical/secret meanings and you get a shitstorm of possible meanings to the same passage of scripture.

A TRANSLATION, if done properly, is JUST a TRANSLATION.

It's not CHANGING the WHOLE MEANING, it's just translating it into another language.

And you're wrong. The meaning is CLEAR. It's just that SIN makes people AVOID it. And it makes people PRETEND not to understand it when they DO read it.

 

[Grayman]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

As a point of interest, while all the points later are noted and acknowledged [Paul was not an original Twelve and was persecuting/killing Christians for some time until his Damascus Road experience, etc.], and that does leave one wondering about legitimacy here, the disciples chose Matthias I believe to replace Judas, and Matthias is never really heard of again, whereas Paul becomes the most dominant speaker in the rest of the NT.

Obviously not much can deductively argued there, that would be a flawed argument; but I know the understanding is that Paul was divinely chosen to replace the betrayer... kind of poetic justice to replace the worst disciple with someone so unexpected and eventually more prominent. Especially considering Paul's openness to the Gentiles. He actually marketed Christianity to non-Jews. Does anyone think Christianity would have made it past the first century or two, if it had just stayed a Jewish thing?



They can have neither, but I'm willing to shove large pieces of stale fruitcake down their gullets just to get rid of last year's Christmas goodies.

Yes, that is true. the derailed christian faith would not exist but the original probably would have failed either way. I wonder what the timing was with Paul becoming a 'christian' and revelations coming out. Was revelations speculation of what would happen with the Roman empire and religion or was it something else?

 

[OldCoyote]

The Pharisees were convinced that their laws (both written and oral) and religious observances were correct. The idea of the Messiah breaking these laws was unthinkable to them.

Sound familiar?

Throughout His ministry, Jesus violated many of their oral laws. He mixed freely with tax collectors and sinners, making Him ceremonially unclean (Luke 7:39). He ate and drank with them, and was called a glutton and a drunkard (Luke 7:34). He ate with ceremonially unclean hands (Luke 11:38). He broke their Sabbath laws by healing people, and gleaning corn to eat (Luke 13:14, Matthew 12:1-2). He forgave peoples' sins, which to the Pharisees was blasphemy (Luke 5:21). He also freely criticised the Pharisees for their hypocrisy and self righteousness (Luke 11:37-52).

Jesus was openly opposed to the Pharisees. He denounced them publicly for their hypocrisy, spiritual blindness, and evil ways. The Pharisees had been entrusted with the guardianship of the Torah which was God's Gift to the Israelites.

The law was intended to enable the Israelites to live righteous lives. But the Pharisees had corrupted the law. Disregarding any ethical considerations and being devoid of mercy, they imposed an intolerable burden of legal observance upon the common people. Life for the Jews became slavery to the legal precepts invented by the experts of the law.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for being careful to appear righteous on the outside, while inside they were full of greed and wickedness. Jesus called them blind guides who had shut the gates of heaven so that neither they nor the people could enter. He constantly attacked them for hypocrisy, calling them fools.

Don't take the place of the Pharisees, your holiness might put your ass in a sling. When Jesus said "let no man deceive you" he was describing how some men (Paul) will try to lead you astray.

Jesus is in the heart of man, not a Book..

 

[Grayman]

Oldcoyote

Who you talking too?

 

[OldCoyote]

Re: Degrees of Freedom

I was talking @wonka

But

Yes, that is true. the derailed christian faith would not exist but the original probably would have failed either way. I wonder what the timing was with Paul becoming a 'christian' and revelations coming out. Was revelations speculation of what would happen with the Roman empire and religion or was it something else?

I find myself wondering the same thing.. It came about a little later than Paul, Most modern scholars believe it was written around AD 95, with some believing it dates from around AD 70. I always thought it was the church that put it together, A means to scare people into believing maybe..

Wait....

Paul

Died c. AD 67 (pretty close) hmm.....

 

[redbaron]

Still waiting for Wonka to explain the fact that since God has sovereign control of absolutely everything, and absolutely everything that happens is his will, why he supports a God that murders, rapes, tortures and molests thousands of people a day.

If God is real, he surely has a tiny wang. The whole, 'you must worship me and only me' thing just screams over-compensation.

 

[NoID10ts]

I don't know why everyone keeps trying to have a conversation with this guy. There is no conversation to be had. He's just spewing pure dogma. The only thing you can do with someone like that is marginalize them.

 

[wonkavision]

Jesus is in the heart of man, not a Book..

No, the heart of man is desperately wicked and willfully ignorant of the truth.

A man CANNOT know a thing about Jesus without the revelation of God to that person, both IN the Revealed Word of God (the Bible), AND BY the power of the Holy Spirit working in that person, UNDER the preaching of the Gospel.

And NONE of that can happen APART FROM God's GRACE in choosing them.


Under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in Romans 9, Paul said that God chooses whom he will save and passes over the rest:

in order that God’s purpose according to His choice might stand, not because of works, but because of Him who calls” (v. 11).

A few verses later, Paul adds this:

“He says to Moses, ‘I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.’ So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy” (vv. 15-16).

Paul also says, in Romans 10, v.13-17:

For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed?
And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?
And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
And how are they to preach unless they are sent?

As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Not only that, but Jesus Christ himself said,

“No one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father” (John 6:65).

and he said:

“Nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him” (Matt. 11:27).

He also said, in John 6:

“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out” (v. 37);

And:

“No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (v. 44);

And:

“No one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father” (v. 65).

Therefore no one who is saved has anything to boast about (Eph. 2:8-9). “Salvation is from the Lord” (Jonah 2:9).

And there is salvation in NO OTHER but Jesus Christ.

Acts 4:11-12 :

This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

 

[Grayman]

I don't know why everyone keeps trying to have a conversation with this guy. There is no conversation to be had. He's just spewing pure dogma. The only thing you can do with someone like that is marginalize them.

He is simply in need of God's love. I have failed him though. I am supposed to show wonk HIS love. I will gather some verses to help him see the truth of what Jesus really is.

 

[wonkavision]

Still waiting for Wonka to explain the fact that since God has sovereign control of absolutely everything, and absolutely everything that happens is his will, why he supports a God that murders, rapes, tortures and molests thousands of people a day.

God has never raped or tortured or molested or murdered anyone, that's just absurd.

Sinful human beings rape and torture and molest and murder.


But yes, God takes people out of this life all the time. And that's his right.

He gives life and he takes it away.


MURDER, on the other hand, is when somebody who DOES NOT have the right to take a life takes a life.


And YES, God IS in control of all these things.

God PURPOSES ALL these things for ultimate good.

How so?


Well, the most HORRIBLE, VILE, and WICKED ACT that was EVER perpetrated by men was the false trial, mocking, and beating, and crucifying of the LORD JESUS CHRIST on Calvary.

YET, it was the EXPRESS WILL of GOD to USE the wicked wills of MEN to ACCOMPLISH the salvation of his people. Let me show you....

Acts 2:23 :

“Men of Israel, hear these words:

Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—

Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;

Then he says, beginning in Verse 36:

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Now do you see?


Romans 10:13 :

For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[OldCoyote]

Acts 4:11-12 :

Gospel of Thomas-

Thomas 66. Jesus said, "Show me the stone that the builders rejected: that is the keystone."

The Gospel According to Thomas, commonly shortened to the Gospel of Thomas, is a well preserved early Christian, non-canonical sayings-gospel which many scholars believe provides insight into the Oral gospel traditions. It was discovered near Nag Hammadi, Egypt, in December 1945, in one of a group of books known as the Nag Hammadi library. The Gospel of Thomas was found among a collection of fifty-two writings that included, in addition to an excerpt from Plato's Republic, gospels claiming to have been written by Jesus' disciple Philip. Scholars have speculated that the works were buried in response to a letter from Bishop Athanasius who for the first time declared a strict canon of Christian scripture.

Yea, they burned anything that didn't fit the agenda.. Except Paul's stuff it was cool....


Tell me I'm going to hell again