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Whats the difference between code and language

sushi

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whats the difference between "000124458" and something like "Iplaygolftoday'?
 

Anktark

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The second set of symbols ends with an apostrophe instead of a quotation mark.
 

Jennywocky

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Aside from the obvious punctuation mistake, the second string parses into understandable human language (conveying an idea), while the first string just conveys symbols.

If the first string contained symbols for words in a language the reader doesn't understand, then it wouldn't really be any different from a string of numbers -- both would still be incomprehensible.
 

sushi

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Aside from the obvious punctuation mistake, the second string parses into understandable human language (conveying an idea), while the first string just conveys symbols.

If the first string contained symbols for words in a language the reader doesn't understand, then it wouldn't really be any different from a string of numbers -- both would still be incomprehensible.

yes this is kind of what I like to point out. the idea of reading foreign language magazine or book (or an alien language from outer space) which you have no understanding of seems to suggest langauge have some code like properties.

when the code represent something , and its has its unique set of rules of arrangement/pattern , does it then not become a language of sorts. But then code always represent something.

also 01000100 like machine language has its unique grammar and rules that are different from human language and puntuation, it does not make it less a language. If you understand what the code represent, does it become a language or is there some other factor involved?

What i am trying to understand is what is the thing that makes the sudden leap from code to language. Or like is math and random numbers a language?what defines language and what defines a code.
 

EyeSeeCold

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A code is a type of language. Context is required in both and communication is the goal of both.




What i am trying to understand is what is the thing that makes the sudden leap from code to language. Or like is math and random numbers a language?
Can you communicate with random numbers? Definitely not.

Can you communicate with math? Perhaps, I imagine it would be the numerical expression of physics and geometry. Surely beyond the comprehension capabilities of humans.
 

Animekitty

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code is the procedure and language is the structure.
 

QuickTwist

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I agree with eyes. Both are languages, both are codes.
 

Kuu

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Both are languages, but code is largely meant to communicate instructions. It's a language specialized for a specific task.
 

Cognisant

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Well written code in a software language and the machine code it gets translated into are instructions but there are also communication codes used to convey information, even an analogue pwm signal is a form of code and our nervous system uses a kind of pulsed pwm.

When you get right down to it we're molecules directed by a genetic code forming a nervous system of analogue electrical and neuro-chemical codes which then expels air to convey a code of contextual language to another entity comprised of codes.

Do you see the code Neo? :cool:
 

sushi

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A code is a type of language. Context is required in both and communication is the goal of both.




Can you communicate with random numbers? Definitely not.

Can you communicate with math? Perhaps, I imagine it would be the numerical expression of physics and geometry. Surely beyond the comprehension capabilities of humans.


why not.what if in your childhood, you never learn the alphabets or phonetical letters but only know numbers instead. (or if everyone talk in numbers) You would just think in numbers.
 

pgibbons

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There is no difference at all. It's completely arbitrary. The way the letters/numbers look and the way they go together. Somebody made that stuff up. It's all code, it's all language.

Now it may differ how many people know the code and can make sense of it. That's arbitrary too though. I can have my own language that only I know. I can use it to write a book (which I could later translate if I wanted to). I'd be the only one that knows the language. I can be writing in English oder ich kann auch was auf Deutsch schreiben.
for (i = 10; i; i--); //a tiny pause

Many will know that last part I wrote but many also will not. So there is no difference, it's all made up by someone and others may or may not know it.
 

RadicalDreamer31

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There is no difference at all. It's completely arbitrary.
WRONG!! CODE IS A MACHINE THAT TRANSFORMS INFORMATION(input)! It's not arbitrary you fuck tit. WHY YOU THINK WE HAVE CODE IN THE FIRST PLACE. IT IS THE DIRECT BEHAVIOR OF HARDWARE. Those shit words coming from your mouth don't DIRECTLY alter reality, LIKE CODE DOES. Let me see you input some data into a haiku and see what happens. LANGUAGE IS INERT it is to be observed. it does not ACT it has no BEHAVIOR. SCRIPTS DO ACT AND DO HAVE BEHAVIOR.

ALSO YOUR CODE "for (i = 10; i; i--)" IS INVALID.
Code is gear.
Language is description.

You can make a gear into a symbol / represent a gear with a symbol.
But you can not make a symbol into a gear.
 

pgibbons

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Oh, you are so not INTP. That's just too bad.
Language conveys information, whether to a computer or a person. Code also conveys information, whether to a computer or a person. Code may refer to language that few people know, while language refers to what many people know. Aside from how many people know it, there is no difference. Chinese characters look like Code to me (I have no idea what it means), C++ to me is a language (I know it). Many people will say computer language.

Oh and just for the record, to make sure, I just compiled the code and it said BUILD SUCCESSFUL.
 

RadicalDreamer31

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Ones and Zero are switches. '10001001010010100101010101001010' on / off, true or false. This is machine "language" but they are physical switches, billions of circuits. Programming is the 'art' of flipping a fuck ton of switches. Now one may or may not be able to 'read' it, just as one may or may not be able to read body language, or the weather, or a situation, or furthermore one may or may not be able to read the character of another person *hint hint wink nudge*. Just because you can read and gather information from something doesn't mean conveying that information is a function of it.

Do you know why there is no clockwork or machinery inside a computer (aside for the cooling fans)? Because the hardware is a stationary, motionless, an empty medium; hardware to software, is dirt to plant. The software IS the computer ITSELF, IT COMPUTES. Your spoken language does NOT compute.

Language is information. Inert. To be acted upon.
Code is the manipulation of it. The actor.

This is the distinction I was trying to make.
___
That's just too bad.
I will strip any title given to me to distinguish myself from the likes of you.
 

Absurdity

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Will both of you please stop dragging this little argument into every thread and onto one another's VMs and be more civil with your disagreement?

Thank you.
 

Teax

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Whats the difference between code and language

the word language and code today has many meanings based on context. you are probably asking for this ones, used in colloquial speech:
natural-language = data/information that can be written in the form of words or spoken aloud. implies a human understandable form of communication. this is the typical meaning of language in street conversations...

used in context of engineering(not programming, so pipe down guys):
code = data/information usually in form of a string(=symbols placed one after another).
this is where the word "encode" comes from. encode = store information in form of a code. decode = get the stored information back from the code.

language and code are both just data/information. it's the same thing. the words are simply used in different contexts.

whats the difference between "000124458" and something like "Iplaygolftoday'?

"Iplaygolftoday" can be seen as code if you just ignore the fact that it can be spoken aloud by a human who looks at it. then both "000124458" and "Iplaygolftoday" are just data/information in form of strings.

what data is stored there? without context "000124458" has stored this information:
the first symbol is 0
the second symbol is 0
the third symbol is 0
the fourth symbol is 1
the fifth symbol is 2
the sixth symbol is 4
...

"Iplaygolftoday" has stored this context-free information:
the first symbol is I
the second symbol is p
the third symbol is l
the fourth symbol is a
...

what does this information mean? we cannot say. the decoder is what extracts(=makes sence) of the information from a code. for example we can imagine a decoder that sais "I'm going to interpret this code as a number.". the decoder will extract the information number-124458 from the code "000124458"

you can imagine a decoder that extracts the information 58. day of the 44. month of the year 12

you can imagine a decoder that extracts the information 1. day of the 24. month of the year 458

when you read aloud the string "Iplaygolftoday" and think about playing golf. you are taking the role of the decoder, by interpreting the string = extracting information out of it.
 

Architect

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Actually there's little difference between them according to information theory, the only difference being the entropy. Presumably by code, and your numeric example, you mean some well defined language, probably a computer type language.

Written language (not sure why you removed spaces but the point is clear) has higher entropy, because the meaning is usually unclear. By "Golf" do you mean the physical game, or say the Atari game called "Golf"?
 

computerhxr

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I agree with Architect! My response is basically another way of saying entropy is the primary difference.

Both code and language require interpretation. Grammar is much more important to code than written languages. Some parts of the code are not interpreted, like strings of characters. Making a mistake in code would result in complete failure, and has almost no effect with spoken language.

The biggest difference in my opinion is that spoken and written language is interpreted each time that the information is communicated. Programming languages on the other hand are interpreted or compiled into a different language, and then interpreted by a consistent set of rules. Even with computers the interpretations can change over time, or function differently with different hardware configurations. However, each version of the interpreter is technically a different language which is why software only works on specific version ranges of the interpreter. Whereas people can change their interpretation of the same sentence after each reading.

Also, written and spoken languages are not so well defined. With computers, they are precisely defined by the code/mechanism that processes it.

Another thing to consider is that binary 010101010001 is not exactly binary. It may be represented as 1's and 0's but in reality it's highs and lows (or frequency key shifting, etc...). This is where code can be misinterpreted. An example is when binary data is transferred over a wireless network. It is transferred using a wave, which is not binary. So it will read the high points as 1's and low points as 0's. I'm oversimplifying how it works to illustrate my point and you can look up digital modulation if you want to learn more.



If written and spoken languages were precise, then they would be less effective. People can derive understanding from parts of words, etymology, context, and so on. People use something called fuzzy-logic, which allows us to read and understand words that a computer would not understand without using fuzzy-logic (or a database of misspellings like a dictionary which may use fuzzy logic to find possible replacement words). There are a few good examples of this:

1. When you see a road sign, but you can not make out the letters, you can still read the sign. You can approximate the width and shape of each of the letters, and the length of each of the words to come up with a small range of possibilities. Then using other information such as memory, you can narrow it down to a single result.



2. You can read sentences fluently even when most of the words are jumbled. This is called Typoglycemia and you've probably seen similar examples before.

"I cdn'uolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg: the phaonmneel pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rseearch taem at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Scuh a cdonition is arppoiatrely cllaed Typoglycemia .
"Amzanig huh? Yaeh and you awlyas thguoht slpeling was ipmorantt."

Imagine a computer trying to read and understand that!
 
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