• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

The resurgence of collectivism

BurnedOut

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 7:55 PM
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
823
-->
An excerpt from my diary entry. What are your thoughts?

---

I believe that the concept of collectivism is leading to its resurgence. Perhaps the world is getting too lonely. Not just lonely, individualistic and lonely. The individualism is rooted in the pathetic need for reassurance, the reassurance for one's preferences. Turns out, that is quite easy to achieve in this era, only not much in person.

In person, people turn back into themselves, they cannot bear to either provide or give the sycophancy that they normally would online.

The garb of anonymity leads to unexpected behaviours, most notably, behaviours that are unlikely to be elicited in person, in reality.

Has collectivism resurged in a hidden format or is individualism is difficult to handle than previously notioned? Can somebody really enjoy the freedom of constantly justifying their preferences independently without much reassurance? We should ask ourselves these questions more often.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 8:25 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,461
-->
Location
crib
I am lonely. But joining a group would not do anything to alleviate this. because it is one of kind. and I need meaning in my life. it is existential. I need more because I am more or rather I am different. more isolated. not easily solved by collectives.
 

Yellow

for the glory of satan
Local time
Today 8:25 AM
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
2,897
-->
Location
127.0.0.1
I guess I'd need to understand your definition of collectivism. Are you talking about collectivist vs individualist cultures? Having been born and raised in an individualist culture with only shadows of collectivism practiced in obscure pockets of my landscape, I struggle to see in increase in collectivism.

Truly, though, since there are more people in the world who are from collectivist cultures than individualist, I imagine collectivism will spread.

However, as far as need for reassurance, collectivism and individualism provide reassurance differently. The flaws of each will stick out most sorely for whom they are foreign.

For example, the tendency to make kids focus on their weaknesses in collectivist cultures can seem cruel to individualists, and the tendency to make kids focus on their strengths in individualist cultures can seem stunting to collectivists, when realistically, both are intended to encourage growth.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today 3:25 PM
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,009
-->
Location
Between concrete walls
The garb of anonymity leads to unexpected behaviours, most notably, behaviours that are unlikely to be elicited in person, in reality.
Brain storming for example, is considered good. Internet arguments are inconsequencial, but can be fun provided that you arent talking to someone not too emotional.

Anonymity on internet in real life are the same. How much do people actually know the real you in real life? Do they actually know what makes you tik or do they actually know what values you hold or do they actually understand what you say???
Some may some may not all.

Collective needs and individual needs are one and the same.

Weakest link in the chain makes the chain snap. So if you constrict individuals, you make lot of weak individuals who have little motivation, energy, real sense of right and wrong, don't have need to contribute much since why would they, have very little connection to a collective blob that they have no meaning for other than just being part of a bigger whole.

Whereas Individualism is the same thing, but pushing preference for the individual.

Ironically many societies that stress individualism are often very homogeneous and people have format. Stressing the necessity of individualism may be a hidden symptom of fear for ones individualism.

Collectivist societies, may in some ways be sort of normative in sense, but if the norms are hard set and fair and well defined and also there is collective effort to up hold these well defined rules and boundaries than individualism is mere after thought not in the bad way, but as long as you do your part you are pretty much free to be the real you.

However if these collective values are chaotic it makes for toxic individualism, and its hard to define what is right and wrong, arguments are frequent, fairness is subjective, morals are a weapon not a reality, Makes for one anxious depressive and often disorganized society.

And these individuals then feel that investing into social aspects is a losing game.
It makes people cut corners, be aggressive, and feel less empathy due to chaos and lack of clear rules and connection.

You feeling me homie?
 

onesteptwostep

The Lance of Longinus
Local time
Today 11:25 PM
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
3,562
-->
Meme culture is big, but I would attribute that as fads more than to collectivism. Having lived in South Korea and Japan, I don't really see anything in western cultures that would point to a more collectivist sense. Collectivism is more conservative, traditional, lowkey. Individualistic cultures tend to be more supportive of what's bold, novel and ideal.

One huge indicator of these cultural modes is how teenagers act in their respective cultures. Which reminds me.. of this youtube video I watched a while back where 3 Welsh kids come over to South Korea to be in a high school for about a week:
 

BurnedOut

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 7:55 PM
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
823
-->
An 'individualistic' culture is certainly much different than a 'collectivistic' culture because of explicit sociological differences. It is my folly that I was not clear about talking about sociology.

I meant that the purer form of individualism as touted by the tomes of philosophy positing it is very hard to imbibe within oneself. Despite the fact that individualistic cultures promote independence, the most notable feature of its, it doesn't ensure individualism in a purer sense that is in the form of being rational and being resistant to irrational things in general. While fashion senses and general utilitarian fads are impossible to avoid, reduction of openness and intellectuality is a real sign of erosion of individualism. This is simply because the individual has very less incentive to behave 'scientifically' or at least in an original sense that does not rely on 'echo chamber social priming'.

This 'echo chamber social priming' is becoming more and more prevalent in this era which is leading to a very cyberpunk-esque generation who are a bunch of charlatan individualists whose 'yes-man' nature is exposed online through social media.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 8:25 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,461
-->
Location
crib
'yes-man'

As a personality type, is it them or is it you? By this I mean have you simply shifted perspectives and it has always been this way but you are the one changed to notice it? People will be the way they are and act on the pressures the environment places them in. What forced this change if any. in them or you?
 

BurnedOut

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 7:55 PM
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
823
-->
The lack of proper Elenchus is naturally going to denude the inquisitiveness of humankind. Aristotle is right on all counts regarding this.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today 3:25 PM
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,009
-->
Location
Between concrete walls
Functional collective
Strong help the weak, the weak do the jobs the strong don't need to do.
Smart help the stupid, and the stupid do the things smart don't have to do.

Efficiency is important. If there is lack of efficiency the whole collective loses meaning.
It may exist, but without the benefit of collective.

Functional individualism

The individual knows how to survive and not be hindered by others.
Knows how to help and be helped.
Knows what works for him and others.

Dysfunctional collective is pretty obvious, its mostly what you get in any number of collective situations or history.

Dysfunctional individualism is pretty obvious too.
 

Beliefofmine

The eternal blue sky
Local time
Today 9:25 AM
Joined
Aug 14, 2021
Messages
42
-->
Humans separated from the other animals by our collective/social nature. Through collectivism we grew as a species. I agree that it seems that recently society seems to be generally coming together more for a push towards collectivism. I think we went through a period of individualism, and realized that in pursuit of self, we've strayed from our fellow man. Through different forms of media, we've brought people back to more of a social, collectivist type of thought.

I think collectivism is important, because there is likely nobody alive today who is completely isolated and hasn't had some benefit from the collective species. We are part of it whether we want to or not.
 
Top Bottom