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The close cousin of the INTP&INTJ: ENTP

Architect

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"clarity (Ti) over serenity (Fe)"

Our, entps, auxiliary tertiary struggle isnt nearly as harsh as you intps dom inferior.
You (us to a lesser extent, but still, will suffer from almost always being ...

Ah! This is a theory I've been working on. I think you're correct that Ti-Fe is a particulary powerful and troublesome dynamic.
 

TimeAsylums

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Ah! This is a theory I've been working on. I think you're correct that Ti-Fe is a particulary powerful and troublesome dynamic.

I stumbled (Ne) upon it three posts ago, in why the entp plays the jester, I also suggested the outcome of your job is indirect Fe (you said "the next time your plane lands safely you can thank me..etc) using tine in your job creates harmon/safety fe)
But yes, wives/husbands talking about s/o, particularly "He/she always has to be right!!" Comes to mind
 

Architect

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I stumbled (Ne) upon it three posts ago, in why the entp plays the jester, I also suggested the outcome of your job is indirect Fe (you said "the next time your plane lands safely you can thank me..etc) using tine in your job creates harmon/safety fe)

That feels good, and doing pro-bono work here on INTPf too. Mainly for me at least Fe is taken care of by music, which as I detailed in my "Architects Music" thread is the only art form, or the best art form that appeals directly to the intellect (Ti) and emotions (Fe) as it turns out. Therein is a trap though - I fell into a huge inferior trap when younger which brought me to the edge of becoming a professional musician. Luckily I pulled back in time to re-career. Since then whenever I got into music I fell into a trap again, then would go cold for a long time.

Finally now as an adult I've learned its heart - I can do music without letting my inferior take me over.
 

TimeAsylums

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That feels good, and doing pro-bono work here on INTPf. Mainly for me at least Fe is taken care of by music, which as I detailed in my "Architects Music" thread is the only art form, or the best art form that appeals directly to the intellect (Ti) and emotions (Fe). Therein is a trap though - I fell into a huge inferior trap when younger which brought me to the edge of becoming a professional musician. Luckily I pulled back in time to re-career. Since then whenever I get into music I fall into a trap again, then go cold for a long time.

Finally now as an adult I've learned it's heart - I can do music without letting my inferior take me over with it.

@observers
Look at the Ne (wideness/encompassing) and Si (recalling the past) and Fe: (not entirely blunt) of this one post; Archie's got it all.
 

Architect

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@observers
Look at the Ne (wideness/encompassing) and Si (recalling the past) and Fe: (not entirely blunt) of this one post; Archie's got it all.

I look good in a bikini too.
 

TimeAsylums

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I look good in a bikini too.

Se. Random crying (possibly Fi). Unsure about Te/Ni, but then again those are really the polar opposites of his dom aux tine. Either Archie has done really well for himself, or people really do "mellow out as they age more."

@Architect, I don't know if you read @Words and minr conversation on my Fi thread, but I believe it is applicable (lol Ne) to your Fe/Fi, if you can seperate the happiness/harmony/peace=Fe from your other feelings, it may be possible to identify Fi. It's only like four posts between @Words and I, but he really grasped what I was saying.
 

Architect

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Se. Random crying (possibly Fi). Unsure about Te/Ni, but then again those are really the polar opposites of his dom aux tine. Either Archie has done really well for himself, or people really do "mellow out as they age more."

I've seen both. Some people get caught in a huge inferior trap, or another trap, in midlife and sadly don't pull out of it before they die (my mother was one). With the benefit of typology I've been working to become an integrated person, as Jung was.

@Architect, I don't know if you read @Words and minr conversation on my Fi thread, but I believe it is applicable (lol Ne) to your Fe/Fi, if you can seperate the happiness/harmony/peace=Fe from your other feelings, it may be possible to identify Fi. It's only like four posts between @Words and I, but he really grasped what I was saying.

I can't easily find the thread, if you have it handy that would help.
 

TimeAsylums

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I'm not touching most of this behemoth, but...

What, No Ti? ;)

I'd argue that this is a duality of "loops;" Ne-Fe and Ti-Si;

Also, your words dont fall on deaf ears here, nice Ne catch here//being srs
I only suggested Ne outer world and tI inner wprod, however u noticed that its nefe/tisi, this led me on even more, just like intp dom tert tisi, our aux inf tisi is the "thinking things over and over and over, whereas ti really only needs to do it once, si makes it repeated(past)

Thanks for that NeTi catch,

(Already explained nefe loop in the jester posts)

Also: just realized how much si correlares to (bouts) of OCD
 

TimeAsylums

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Ne "paranoia"// why do Ne's always add (seemingly) extraneous information?:

The following conversation was taken from VMs, so read it from bottom up, I'm too lazy to edit from a tablet
(3)TimeAsylumsI know you weren't putting any value on the number itself. ENTPs generally/stereotypically add (seemingly) extraneous details because they can see where something might be misinterpreted (also, Ne may cause paranoia from seeing too much)That is, I merely added "the number isn't a goal to me" because I imagined someome (anyone, evem you) would read that post and go "oh, so youre just after numbers?!?!" However, it was actually extraneous because it wasn't relevant to the actual conversation.That was a little look into Ne (+someTi) "paranoia"(I prefer to call it, not wanting to be misunderstood, but it's both.

Edit*ReportToday*07:16 PM(2)Duxwing: I intended to communicate my surprise regarding your having had so many partners relative to the mean; I wasn't putting any value on the number itself!*-Duxwing

ReportToday*07:09 PM(1)TimeAsylumsI don't want to spam Architect's thread.Anyway, the number of people slept with is subjective to people's opinions. Having been with anywhere from 1 to 10 to 100 could be high or low on anyone's scale, I was just saying, I have been with people, but a low number to me. (Not that any number is a "goal," or anything)

The actual context of this conversation is irrelevant, merely an example.

ENTPs add on all these little details because Ne dom, aux ti: Ne brings the ideas to attention at a (seemingly) random and frentic pace, obviously our ti isnt dom, so being entirely orderly is a drain. So if your entp is going "oh,and...!" Or "but...!" The Ne wants to add information, and we know that if we miss out on this key part of information, we may be either misunderstood or not entirely understood, it's preemptive.
 
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Ne "paranoia"// why do Ne's always add (seemingly) extraneous information?:

The Ne wants to add information, and we know that if we miss out on this key part of information, we may be either misunderstood or not entirely understood, it's preemptive.
It's a pre-emptive strike against a counterargument because we can immediately see the holes in our own arguments. It's a protective mechanism that keeps our system of understanding intact as well as our feelings/ego.
 

scorpiomover

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Ah! This is a theory I've been working on. I think you're correct that Ti-Fe is a particulary powerful and troublesome dynamic.
I used to think so. But now I'm not so sure.

Feelings are inferior in Ti-doms. This results in T-doms being most easily affected by their emotions. Te-doms have the grounding that comes from objectivity. So even if their emotions are affecting them, their need for objectivity brings them back down to reality. Ti-Se have grounding from Sensation, from sticking to what is physically observable and what works for other people. As a consequence, with Ti-Ne, the emotions have almost utter freedom to go completely haywire. I was at the mercy of my emotions.

By age 9, I realised that logic was my best bet for knowing anything. But it was slow, and half the time, it was spot on, but no-one else was willing to follow the logic to its conclusions, and half the time, it was way off. So I was still mostly perceiving helplessness, and that kept me at the mercy of my emotions.

By age 27, I realised that if I used Ne to check my Ti against the objective patterns I could see, then I could filter out the half of my Ti that was way off. Suddenly, Ti came to be incredibly accurate on a consistent basis. But other people still didn't see the logic, and so I still felt helpless.

By age 41, I realised that when I ignored others' panicky complaints and went ahead and did what my Ti & Ne recommended, then it pretty much always worked, and other people were happy with the results. So that's what I started doing, and so far, it's worked incredibly well.

My Ti is still slow. But it still gives me partial results. As long as I hedge-bet on the rest, taking a sum-over-many-paths integral for covering all the possibilities that my Ti has not yet resolved, I can select to meander a very strange path, that seems weird, but gets me where I want to go in a reliable and safe fashion.

Ti-Ne seems to work best for me, by being willing to follow my Ti myself, without worrying about what others will feel about it, until after I've acheived its results, and hedge-betting on the rest.

That's what I've got so far.
 

TimeAsylums

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A very interesting article from Personality Junkie:

http://personalityjunkie.com/10/entps-enfps-ne-vs-intjs-infjs-ni/

INJ types are usually perspicacious enough to know that Se on its own (as witnessed in ESP types, for example) feels relatively hollow and undesirable as it lacks much, if any, element of N consciousness – it’s too one-sided, or imbalanced. Ne, however, appeals to the INJ because of the apparent unification of outward performance and N ingenuity and consciousness. Ne seems to embody the holistic aspect of individuation – the concept of marrying paradoxes Ni and Se – in a way that is far more appealing than simply taking Se on its own.In order to achieve individuation, ENP types must reconcile the breadth of their ideation (Ne) with a sense of convergent, inner knowing (Si). Si taken on its own doesn’t necessarily garner full respect from the ENP as it seems not to question or explore on a theoretical (N) level the reasons for holding with tradition or a conservative approach to living. It too feels one-sided and incomplete. But Ni, with its sense of constancy and theoretical complexity, gives the appearance of having unified Si and Ne.

Read the article, it says that, for the Ne doms and Ni doms, although we seek our inferior Si/Se respectively, we realize that it is hollow and cold - and eventually seek out our opposite Ni/Ne. Wow. Interesting.

I have, as of two-ish months ago been keeping a dream diary and have theoretically confirmed a suspicion with @Architect about Ni being dreams...

hmm. Incredible.
 

Montresor

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hmm. Incredible.

Quite.

 

TimeAsylums

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I already posted another one of SW's profiles on the ENTP, however that was more of a psychological profile, here is another one on more of actions and interpretations, I agree with just about everything:
(ENxP focused)

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...s/4581-extroverted-intuition-megolamania.html

He ultimately comes to this conclusion:
The world isnt yours for the taking.
(by his own ideas, that is) [such an introvert ;)]

It's an interesting read, since there's all the speaking of psychopathy lately :D
 

Brontosaurie

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starting to think that i'm a shackled ENTP with wavering self-esteem who's been raised in disadvantageous social conditions which prohibit the unfamiliar, thus sppressing strong Ne displays and forcing me to introvert.

of course everyone would want to be an ENTP but the biases ought to cancel each other out seeing as INTP is rarer (?) thus rendering my self diagnosis reasonably credible.

anyone give fucks enough to comment?
 

TimeAsylums

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Brontosaurie

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In that case we should all be striving for to be INFJ

Can't say :P You tell me


Ask the witch hunters ;)

there are but two biases at work when deciding entp/intp (i think i have it pinned down to those), namely: the rare-precious-speshul-person bias and the Ne-is-a-blast factor.

i tell you so. ISTJ + ESFJ parents. what can one do?

sir has point.
 

TimeAsylums

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there are but two biases at work when deciding entp/intp (i think i have it pinned down to those), namely: the rare-precious-speshul-person bias and the Ne-is-a-blast factor.

i tell you so. ISTJ + ESFJ parents. what can one do?

sir has point.

haha, why did Solitary Walker's "ENxPs are fun social sociopaths" make you question your type?
 

TimeAsylums

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it didn't. haven't read it, should i?

Oh, I thought your OP was related to my most recent post that linked that.

Oops, driving up my ppd -.-

but yeah sure if you are questioning, read it.
 

Brontosaurie

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Oh, I thought your OP was related to my most recent post that linked that.

Oops, driving up my ppd -.-

but yeah sure if you are questioning, read it.

scanned it briefly, well writtn stuff, almost on par with jung

i'm too restrained to be a sociopath (i know psychopath is the common term now but sociopath captures the meaning more succinctly) anyway, but i do prefer Ne to Ti and enjoy company which allows me to blurt out strings of ideas. i may appear rigid and insistent on logic (irl that is; on these boards probably just a bored twat) but i usually don't devote myself to thorough analysis - we must keep in mind that intuition itself deals with implications and causality, though in a looser broader sense.


do you find machiavellianism appealing? i like to succumb to ideas. self-interest is a joke to me. at least at the conscious, self-image lvel.
 

TimeAsylums

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do you find machiavellianism appealing? i like to succumb to ideas. self-interest is a joke to me. at least at the conscious, self-image lvel.
I'll let you determine that yourself, but I'll give you: all that matters is the outcome.


scanned it briefly, well writtn stuff, almost on par with jung
Yes, Solitary Walker is guud.
 

TimeAsylums

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I've attempted to explain it before, but I have a little more insight now:

What makes the ENTP so...not extraverted?

Clearly we are talking in the stereotypical/modern pop definitions of I/E, not the original (which by itself adds a little clarity to why this might be)

As you know, Ne absorbs all of its information from Si (The same with Ni and Se) (See any # of Personality Junkie posts) So, first of all it would probably be best to think about Si and Se.

Even though Si is our inferior function, Ne still derives its information from it, cool huh? The INJs Ni takes all the external physical broad information (Se) and Ni leaps incredibly far in depth from it. The ENPs use Si (which is a "collection of Se snapshots" [PJ], intensity) and generalizes/expands from there (Ne). So you can see how Ne looks like Se, and Ni like Si in a sense. Also, you can see why Si is associated with traditions and the past - because it is "snapshots/ an intensified concentration of Se" all at once, so that one... memory of all those details are held as one.

What does this have to do with the ENTP being introverted? Si of course. Whether in an inferior grip our not, I believe the Si has to get all the details (whether this be from past OR current experience), it has to absorb, and what's the best way for an introverted function to absorb? to observe. And then once that happens, Ne can extrapolate from there.

I don't, and can't, speak for all ENTPs, but in my childhood, i would never once call myself extraverted...ever. Although you might be familiar with ENTPs NeFe side - happy go lucky/witty, I am assuming that Ne needs Si first: up until age..14ish, I was really..."passive" if you will, I was doing nothing but absorbing and observing like a sponge, I didn't care much to interact, I just wanted to watch and observe.


However, you could also ask about the INJs inferior Se, but they're not exactly as extraverted as we (ENTPs) are introverted, so not too much to question (speaking stereotypically on the I/E)

Also to add, Ne is not Se. Duh, right? But Ne merely seeks out patterns/information, it need not necessarily interact with the "physical/tangible" as Se does - thereby being less noticeably extraverted and actually relates more to the actual I/E definitions of relating to objects/oneself (objective/subjective - jung sense)

Also, on multiple profiles on the ENTP, including Personality Junkie, you'll find that it is stated "the Ne doms love to read to gather information." - Ne/Si once again, si gathering the information for Ne to extrapolate from. (to further note, i will add the post from PJ if i can find it, but Drenth says that in terms of "memory and information/facts" Si is rivaled only by Te, hence the stereotype of ISTJs being filled with a wealth of facts (SiTe!)


If there are any other ENTPs who have any information on their childhood/introverted-ness please do add.

___________________________________________________________


On an even more subjective personal note, I will be entering my 20s soon, (stereotypically/generally when most people begin developing their auxiliary function more [personality junkie, any profile], and with Ti coming to light, I only see myself becoming more introverted

//also, don't get me wrong, I (can be) very outgoing and extraverted when it is necessary, e.g. searching for friends/hanging out etc, but more often than not - I'm in my head.

________________________________________________________

Relevant: read the first post only:

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showt...xtraverted-NTs-can-be-mistaken-for-Introverts

^tl;dr: iNtuition vs Sensing: intuition may make one more introspective, therefore seemingly introverted.
 

Nocturne

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I don't, and can't, speak for all ENTPs, but in my childhood, i would never once call myself extraverted...ever. Although you might be familiar with ENTPs NeFe side - happy go lucky/witty, I am assuming that Ne needs Si first: up until age..14ish, I was really..."passive" if you will, I was doing nothing but absorbing and observing like a sponge, I didn't care much to interact, I just wanted to watch and observe.

Hm. That also sounds a lot like me when I was a kid. Well, that is pretty much me at the moment also. However, I was wondering how applicable childhood characteristics are towards determining the core type. I have heard and considered the idea that the feeling and thinking functions are developed later than the others, regardless of the core functional stack.

Are there any decent validity in that?

Reflecting on my younger days, I had realized that my Ne was developing on a consistent basis and it was until later that I had begun even noticing my Ti function with intent to develop it. However, though, after being introduced to the official MBTI, I relate with the INTP function ordering over the one for ENTP, especially with the Fe inferior strings and traps.
 

TimeAsylums

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This is really, really good:

http://personalitycafe.com/entp-articles/76805-recognizing-inferior-function-entp.html

I have had trouble recognizing my own inferior grip as to what it even is, but here we go:

There is too much to post an excerpt without missing the important information, please see the link, it's great.


It is a couple of paragraphs long, but is here just one:

Perhaps because ENTPs and ENFPs thrive on the threshold of chronic stress, they seem to have a high tolerance for situations that might prove debilitating for many other types. ENTPs in particular report very few sources of stress in their lives, and both types report a low incidence of heart disease and hypertension, ENTPs having the lowest incidence of all the types. This is in marked contrast to their opposite types, ISTJs and ISFJs.

intense love of chronic stress <3

this too:

xtraverted Intuitive types are likely to leave work situations in which conditions become intolerable, but usually not because they are overloaded or forced to work very hard. Rather, such conditions as working with incompetent people (especially for ENTPs) or being forced to adhere to unacceptable work values (especially for ENFPs) are likely to trigger quitting the noxious situation.

which also leads anew:
However, there are also occasions when a lengthy time in the grip of inferior Introverted Sensing can stimulate new awareness and positive growth toward completion and individuation.

The summary:
In the grip of inferior Introverted Sensing, Extraverted Intuitive types tend to withdraw and become depressed, obsess about details, and become focused on their bodies.When they are obsessing about one or two inner facts, their dominant Extraverted Intuition may intrude in the form of a theory projecting the few facts into the distant future. Auxiliary Thinking or Feeling accompanies their return to equilibrium. ENTPs use logical analysis to do so, and ENFPs reconnect with their inner value structure and its relationship to their dominant Intuition.

As a result of important inferior function experiences, Extraverted Intuitive types acknowledge the limitations of their physical and mental energies, resolve to take better care of themselves, and integrate a greater report needing time alone. Meditation, which can be a useful way appreciation for details, facts, structure, and careful planning.
 

TimeAsylums

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Generally, Architect is the one who updates on PJ posts, but seeing as he is an INTP, he focuses predominately on INTP/infj related stuff, and plus, this one is way too good to pass up:

Openness: Myers-Briggs/MBTI Intuition, the Big Five, & IQ: Correlations



http://personalityjunkie.com/09/ope...briggsmbti-intuition-big-five-iq-correlations

Just a tidbit, see the whole in the link:

As I’ve expressed elsewhere, EPs are novelty-seeking types. They are easily bored and are constantly seeking new and exciting experiences. For some, it may be surprising to learn that ENPs are more open to actions than ESPs are. But this is a testament to the open-minded, “try anything” attitude of Ne. NPs, especially ENPs, are willing to try just about anything once. They are idiosyncratic, unconventional, and willing to take risks for the sake of excitement or inspiration.

Here again, we can see a potential connection with Ne, which is willing to entertain a variety of perspectives. Viewed positively, Ne types are highly adaptive and receptive to alternate values and lifestyles. If viewed more negatively, they may be perceived as fickle, restless, and indecisive.

Openness to Ideas: Myers-Briggs Intuition & IQ

Openness to ideas is associated with regular intellectual engagement and perceived intelligence. It is strongly correlated with the scales of Typical Intellectual Engagement (.77) and Need for Cognition (.78), both of which are positively associated with IQ. With regard to the Myers-Briggs, Openness to Ideas is most strongly correlated with Intuition (.56). This should not surprise us, since a preference for Intuition is associated with abstract ideation and positively correlates with IQ, SAT scores, and educational achievement.
One of the more interesting features of Openness to Ideas is its association with both verbal/crystallized and nonverbal/fluid intelligence. With the exception of Values, all the other Openness facets correlate mainly with verbal intelligence. Hence, some individuals with mathematical, spatial, or other forms of nonverbal intelligence (often T types) may score relatively high on Openness to Ideas, while scoring lower on measures of Aesthetics, Feelings, and Fantasy. These differences may also surface in their Holland career interests, with NTs scoring higher in Investigative interests and NFs in Artistic interests.
 

TimeAsylums

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I had, awhile ago, attempted to explain the psychological state of the Inferior Si/Dom Ne (ENTP), however now I have a much better understanding and insight...as it customary with an ENTPs knowledge to only increase and add to the "big picture" over time.

If you have read Solitary Walker's profile that I have linked and the previous Ne/Openness link from personality junkie, i'm blending their understanding with mine, so do read those

The Ne-Si Dynamic

SW & PJ both go into the "Openness" factor of the Ne, so I won't reiterate that.

The inferior Si delivers a sense of, or rather a lack of, constant self. If you have read the INxJ profiles on PJ, you will see how their inferior Se but lacking an Si in the functional stack affects them. Ne tears your mind apart, it does not care how you feel or what is or isn't, it merely is. Ne seeks to explore, everything (as noted in PJ, via Si, the same with Ni-Se dynamic). This is what makes the ENTPs huge, big picture people, all perspectives, everything is to be seen and considered - and not by our conscious choice, Ne does as it pleases. Ne runs faster than we can think, yet it is all stored, assumably via Si. Ne is not passive. It is always seeking new points, patterns, perceptions. Taken from SW's ENTP profile, if you will recall: The world(reality) is integrated into the ENTP's mind in a "torrential" fashion.

Side note: I hope by now you all have realized the affected perspectives of certain types, and that the difference is not merely just conscious choice, but simply the way it is.

With the incredibly weak sense of self (inf Si) and turning everything over on rocket fuel (Dom Ne), you may think of it as...extreme bipolarity - except not necessarily emotional. The mind is taken in all directions, at the same damn time.. As many agree, Si does not only focus on the past, but as a result, has a stern connection and upholding of past traditions, and somewhat, a sense of conformity. PJ has jested that ENTPs hate conformity because they hate their inferior Si. I will state that this is not a conscious habit, I don't (consciously) hate or dislike anyone that chooses to conform, it is simply my being - which is why I laughed when Absurdity called me a byronic hero. A core ENTP desire is not simply "to be different," nor simply "to be unlike anything else." Ne just wants to explore, everything, forever, always, and as stated by PJ, developing some aux Ti can help to hold the ENTP down. If you'll note, in a profile on the inferior Si grip not linked too many posts ago, it seems the inferior grip really isn't too bad, we just stop being Ne's, and get really bummed out and become introverts, not so bad really, and my experiences thus far seem to converge with these ideas. Also to be noted, the Ne does not simply come up with ideas out of nowhere, it uses the patterns and perceptions it perceives to connect them to even more, no matter what the Ne is exploring, it is being added to our "big picture." Sometimes I laugh at THD because he almost seems to have an entire theory of the universe. Disregarding some emotional factors, and sticking with the Ne-Si dynamic, it's like if there was a roller coaster that went almost out into the atmosphere and all the Gs you'd experience at once all the way down.

Whereas I imagine an Se feels bursting at the physical seems to be moving constantly, the Ne's mind is bursting, exploding, it must explore as well.
 

TimeAsylums

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another amazing ENTP profile:

http://personalitycafe.com/socionic...description-best-entp-guide-ever-written.html

read it all, but here's a quick portion:

Even though they are extroverts, ENTps may demonstrate a subtle tendency towards reservation. Those who have had problems establishing friendships may manifest a quiet nature and a lack of general outgoingness, one day appearing social and friendly only to be indifferent or avoidant the next. Over a period of time specific social patterns may develop, appearing unfriendly and reserved to some and friendly and open to others. With their sporadic nature, they may unwittingly convince others of a general dislike and social discontentment, even though it is not their intention. Because of this, ENTps feel a need to receive positive emotions more than any other type, and often use their intuitive logic to concoct clever social schemes to gain required social attention; ENTps crave great emotional attention from others.

ENTps do not readily follow social norms. They do not like to have their independence threatened by unnecessary rules, and they can appear expedient and out-of-place in a society that values any various forms of unnecessary subjugation. While ENTps may have a healthy respect for rules when they are necessary as a guideline or are necessary and good for the well being of people, they do not readily tolerate intentional subjugation to any type of rule or method that they consider to be out-dated or harmful to the well-being of individuals. ENTps tend to look down on people who do so, considering them to be childish and lacking of confidence.

ENTps are the intuitive protectors of society. They do not want to see people being exploited out of ignorance or to see the unmerciful destruction of individuals for the gain of a chosen few. ENTps want everyone to be strong, independent, and able to stand on their own. They can use their intuitive understanding of situations and their ability to see the internal workings beyond smoke and mirrors, and to warn of danger. However, they can at times see danger where none really exist, which often causes people to not take them seriously. But, ENTps really want the best for others, even in a world that does not really understand them or really cares to for that matter.

ENTps thrive not in any society that places high value upon any form of systematic consistency, and could be perceived with suspicion. Because of their acute absentmindedness, an ENTp may unintentionally forget what he or she has done throughout the day or mistakenly leave tools and other items where he or she has worked. This forgetting can happen anywhere from a matter of seconds to minutes. When confronted, an ENTp may deny he or she has done something, even a few moments later and when there are witnesses to testify against this fact; generally, most people lack the empathy and insight to understand how anyone can humanly manage under such inconsistent and odd behavior. However, those who have developed a good understanding of ENTps can testify to their faulty memory and forgive and accept them. An ENTp is best left to live in a society that values their greater strengths over their lower flaws.

but like I said, just a portion, read the whole thing.
 

TimeAsylums

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From the same link above:

this is the best Ne-related-to-open-mindedness post i've yet seen (besides the PJ one I linked a few posts above:

Ne: The first function of the ENTp is Ne, by which the essence of ideas arrive and insights into their development arise. With this function, it is possible to collect multiple perspectives, concepts, ideas, and beliefs in order to register into a readily available databank their entirety and the various conscious considerations concerning them as they stand in the abstract theoretical world and in order to derive a global picture of them. However, Ne also maintains an active neutral stance on all of the whole of its inputs, even if the whole of the input of one core belief, concept, or idea, conflicts with any of the other core beliefs, concepts, or ideas it remains non-biased and registers them all as equals. Probably the most powerful aspect of Ne is an ability to see potential in the most obscure forms and to believe in them. Being an extroverted function, Ne cannot derive data from within and must amass information from outside of itself and in the here and now to survive as a function or at all.
 

TimeAsylums

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ENTP Divergence

Not simply divergent thinkers, but divergent by nature. Not simply the conscious need or desire to be different. Whereas an inferior Ne may cause one to irrationally gamble or leave one's job or something totally uncharacteristic, the dominant Ne is characterized by such things. A whirlwind in the head. As soon as something has been figured out (only cognitively, even) it will bore the Ne. A little inadequate at putting ideas into the real world because the immense boredom that one feels after figuring it out is overwhelming. Prone to not remember, either because their attention is far elsewhere, or simply because such minuscule details are thought to be not needed. Seemingly incapable of stability - this can go for any period of time, seconds, weeks, months, and then out of nowhere, boredom begins to crawl towards the Ne's mind, and the Ne must flee. This could be for ideas, relationships, school, jobs, anything. The end desire is Si of course, but when will that come? At the end of life? (lol). Too easily bored for its own good. Must diverge from whatever path is being followed. An extravert, but accustomed to individuality. Mind splitting in multiple directions. Could be seen as bi-polar. Can (is) be seriously overdramatic, but not even intentionally, as the perceptions to the Ne come this way. Can blow things out of proportion, though not seeming so to self.


I've been waxing poetic more often than not lately, so don't bother reducing my ideas. lol.

I'm hoping my attention to this ends soon, (I can't tear away my desire consciously), so that I can begin to focus on other things.

I hope I have had the least mundane explanations :D


:cthulhu:
 

TimeAsylums

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ENTP

Desire/The Luck of the ENTP/Change

I am not directly saying that there are "lazy" types, but certainly there are behaviors that one may be such inclined that is perceived as being a lazy aspect or attitude.

We all know about generalized J/P characteristics of types, but this is specific to ENTP.

I do not ever have a plan of action, in anything. Life, romantic relationships, whatever. I always have a generalized idea of everything that I am "working/striving" to be. If you have read some ENTP profiles, it is stated they the ENTP simply morphs/becomes his or her desire. We don't make a list of what needs to be done then systematically go through it. oh, no. You remember the Ne-Si aspect that makes the smallest into the biggest things, and our lives revolve around it? That's what happens. Whatever the desire is floods the un/conscious (depends, I'm not always thinking about it, but working for it in someway). It consumes them, until either it is achieved/it is realized that there is a bigger goal/it is fully understood and becomes boring.

The problem is my "desires" change very easily. They are not "concrete/judging" desires. I can really be into/love something one moment and shift with the next moment alone. Thinking about something too much will blast me into nihilist universe, fully encompass it, and move on. One tidbit on the ENTP relationship pages is that "The ENTP will be happy and content in the relationship only as long as there is room for growth." - This is true for just about everything and the ENTP, as the Si being pulled on feels like stagnation and this is boring for us.

What does this have to do with luck? We can change/our desires change from moment to moment. :cthulhu: It appears/is perceived as "luck" by many others because the events just "befall" us, when actually we are simply able to adapt at any given time to the situation, or also just as likely, we have been "passively/unconsciously" working for it this entire time...


Now obviously, perceived and extroverted, it is easy to see how this can come off as "lazy." "Wow, he has no real plans for the future?" This is only partially true, but the statement itself is misleading. The Ne just doesn't like step-by-step things, however goes about it in its own ways.

As seen in few places, we are matched only in our future-foward thinking abilities by the INTJ....now if either of us could enact those plans... :D
 
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The pull of the Si inferior (ENTP/ENFP):
(The (in)stability challenge)


You INTPs seem to have a very well grasp (well, more than a grasp) on understanding your inferior, and to that I applaud you. (ISTPs as well I suppose, Ti--Fe), so that makes them "similar enough"

Now, I'm going to tell you in-depth about our (ENTP, Ne--Si, ENFP), This will mostly go on about the ENTP (seeing as I am one), but should be relational to the ENFP, the ENFP is to the ENTP what the ISTP is to the INTP, sharing dominant and inferior functions.

Jung called the Ne-dom personality a (stereotypical) woman.
So just a heads up, I'm going to put this stereotype into a quote here, so just keep in mind i know it's just a stereotype

What I'm getting at is the constant flux of mind.

Perhaps a little info first:

(this is simplified, but go with it)
Ne: Constant, change, instability, possibility
Si: inconstant, unchanging, conforming, stability

Take like two seconds just to consider the Ne dom and inferior Si possibilities.

The "stereotypical" woman quote I just made above, fits the ENFP - it deals more with Feeling and emotions.
But then you ask, where does that leave the ENTP? - it deals more with mental/thinking stability as opposed to emotions.

For example (more stereotypes):
ENFP woman was just happy about seeing a cute dog, she's all joyous, two minutes later she's sobbing(for some unnamed reason)
ENTP guy was just thinking about the positives of...uh..the republican party? a few hours later he's more of a Democrat.

These are reallly really bad examples, so maybe I'll get personal.

The Ne constantly changes us in unexpected ways, the ENFP feels the flux of emotion more (Aux Fe, tert Ti), while the ENTP feels the flux of..."mental status" more (aux Ti, tert Fe).

Perhaps I should explain it juxtaposted to SP(Si dom specifically), society gives you the influence that "Character/personality" is for the most part, constant, and changes over time due to experience and etc, that is, most people are "constant in their personality."
This is not so for the ENxP.

Personal:

60 minutes ago: I decided to go shop for clothes
55 minutes ago: I decided, nah
45 minutes ago: I went to the mall
30 minutes ago: I saw cool stuff, picked out a few clothes
25 minutes ago: I tried them on thought they looked cool
24 minutes ago: I decided they actually looked bad
15 minutes ago: I decided to come home and write a post on the pull of the inferior Si

My mind changes so constantly, but it doesn't often affect emotion, where as with an ENFP their emotions might change so constantly, but not necessarily their point of view.

I might have mentioned I've had 7 girlfriends, sometimes the Si is like "ooh, you should settle down" and then Ne comes back to conscious and is like "wtf, no."

The Ne gets you interested in things in the snap of a finger, but also loses interest at the same speed.


Please (important) note:

I hope this helps a little for some of you.

I have yet to read all the replies but I think that I am an ENTP as well. So far I've identified myself as an INTP. I see myself as an introvert and haven't bothered to read about extroverts so far. But now that I read this post and articles of other sources, I'm pretty sure that I am an ENTP (and they don't appear to be so greatly extra oriented anyway).

But I would like to share what I've found out so far about my emotional pattern, which is following a constant change. Slow but constant.
So yes it really is:
NE: Constant, change, instability, possibility

Most the time I'm very happy and have fun but then I reach a point where all my "positive energy" is gone. Then I need more time for myself and depressing thoughts can come along, as well as feelings of boredom and nihilistic thoughts.

Controlled anger or a small conflict help me recharging positive energy (I know, it sounds ridiculous, but it's what I've observed about me). I'm not more aggressive, I just have more negative tendencies like mean thoughts or say something insulting.
Normally my emotions move in this circle: happy -> depressed -> angry -> happy ...

Sometimes, one of those steps do not occur but for 70% of the time, I'm happy anyway. This is rather simplified of course, because I don't want to go into detail too much (got other work to do xD).

But there are also stimulations from outside which arouse emotions that can change my mood almost instantly. Normally something that is connected with my experience and/or memories. I guess, this would be my Si part:
inconstant, unchanging, conforming, stability

I'm really not an expert of this matter but merely puzzle everything together I've read so far and observed about myself.

I can use music, images, games, given situations and other sources (moving my hands) to arouse such emotions and stimulate myself. It's a great feeling and I like to refer to it as "meditation" even though I know this is something completely different for most people. It's a great feeling but I don't know how to describe it.

Ever got goosebumps when you watched a video of a nuclear explosion? Like that, only much more enjoyable. Like drinking water when you spent 3 days wandering around in the sahara.

I will read the rest of this thread when I got more time...
Hope I didn't disturbe the flow of the discussion by replying an older post ^^

Edit: I would like to clearify that I am really not an emotional driven person. Instead I seek out emotions and try to use them as a source of energy/power.

Edit2: Screw it, I think I'm an intj xD
 

juansk

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I've been mauling around the idea of rather I am INTP or ENTP. However, the more I read about ENTP the more I believe that I am one. It weird because I do identify myself with being introverted just not as introverted as some others.

Same here.
I think I alternate between INTP/ENTP/INTJ, depending on the context/mood i am.
When im happy i tend to be definitely an ENTP, seeking social interaction.
 

TimeAsylums

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Ne

you will know Ne and all the places it will take you

Si

you will know Si thanks to the superabundance of Ne. You will 'perceive and feel' what has been.

Ti

you will know Ti. Personally, I use it when necessary.


Fe

For the first time ever, I have truly felt it.

I have finally had a personal encounter with a female ENFJ. For the majority of my life, I have intended to stay away from all such shallow, judgmental extrovertedness. I can not simply activate Fe by interacting with people and talking to them. This ENFJ in particular drew it out of me. Hours after it happened, I realized it. I would have assumed Fe would have given me my place and shallow judgements, after Ti, but I was wrong. Although it might be this way for others, it was not the way it was for me. The Fe furthered my view of futility. It was interesting. You know the "acceptance" and perceiving nature of Ne. Fe only furthered my sphere. Interesting. It is undeniably something that I could not maintain for a long period, but I have felt it.

that ENFJ: every bit as judgmental and caring about status as I had read about/discussed with other people.

What was more interesting was her statement "I enjoy chaos and drama."

Why wouldn't I shy away from this immediately?

"chaos."

Oh how the Ne craves the change. Can't pull myself away. Already becoming intertwined. I see.
 

Goku

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Nothing to do with being INTP
But my ADD makes the OP tl;dr
 
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ENTP Divergence

Not simply divergent thinkers, but divergent by nature.

Could be seen as bi-polar.

don't bother reducing my ideas. lol.
Challenge accepted. (Because I know that by reducing them, you have no choice but to expand the result. :p)

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10400419.2012.677315?journalCode=hcrj20#.UrZ_fsRDvFg
What was more interesting was her statement "I enjoy chaos and drama."
And stomping it out like a game of whack-a-mole. :phear:
Nothing to do with being INTP
But my ADD makes the OP tl;dr
^Post of the year. :applause:
:D
 

TimeAsylums

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My Relationships

Ze ENTP narcissist is back to talk about himself some more.

*disclaimer* While I may once in awhile suggest certain types aspects are better for other types, I by no means intend to disrupt or cause any relationships solely by MBTI/type standards whatsoever, you may love, hate, kill, eat, whomever you wish.

I'll tell you what little I can about my self and my own feelings then go one to tell you about teh types i has dated.


I can't tell you if i have a type. I can't tell you directly how I actually feel. I can look at the past and attempt to find similar aspects of the people I have dated and attempt to find a pattern or correlation. I don't consciously have a desire for any height or size or color eyes or hair. For me, it is about what feelings the other person can evoke from me, or move my intuitions.

I could try to tell you I don't like xxx about girls or I do, or I like smart or dumb or skinny, but it would all be bullshit, because I like whatever appeals to me.

There is one thing in particular I can say though, I enjoy relationships the most when I am spending time with the significant other, that might be a "duh/obvious" thing, but it is particularly more difficult for the introverts, when they want their time alone, and i only want more time together. I also believe that Ns simply mend better with Ns and sensors with sensors, however I have many sensate best friends and have dated many girlfriends, so disclaimer / w/e.

Regarding certain J/P aspets, where one wants the other to be more "doing," I haven't had any problems, I don't have a problem with deciding things, although I would prefer the other person choose, it isn't that much of an issue at all.

The ISTPs (2): They are, to put it, without negative connotation, simple. Their desires are simple. Once they have all in Ti'd and finished, their interactions are very much SeFe. As my experience goes, regarding age wise, they were struggling with Fe. This was ok with me, the main problem was that they wanted Fe from me, which isn't the easiest thing to just do. Regardless, that wasn't a big issue at all. As Architect has pointed out, SPs tend to possibly be hypersexual, which is totally fun with me. It is also likely they just like to do stuff, also cool with me, sports, going out. However, they are rarely ever similar to Fe/Se doms with enjoying shopping and bull shit that i don't like. They are somewhat secretive foodies, enjoying special foods, but to themselves. Key trouble moments include when they are in a bad Ti-Fe loop, myself having Ti>Fe, it is extremely rare for my feelings to get hurt or included, however once in a awhile (seemingly, <1/month) The Ti will find something extremely caustic and burning to say, in spite of that inferior Fe. As you know, The ENTP, when engaged in Ne-Si loop in a bad way, can blow up the smallest of things in an instant and change. Ti does not like that much change (similar to Si, not the same), because then it has to Ti all over again. I can see why the ISFJ is a good choice for the ISTP, The Ti does not have to keep up with my Ne constantly changing, which takes forever, but instead the "always the same" Si would keep them happy. Regardless, this type is (generally speaking obv) fun, out of all the introverts I've dated, they are the least bothered by the most time spent together, likely because we don't often engage the Fe, but their Se, by "doing stuff." The Se also stimulates the Ne by getting to "do stuff," it's okay with new stuff. As is known, the ENTP isn't the biggest extravert, and if anything, a big ambivert, so that isn't too much of a problem either. The Ti>Fe smile is recognizable in the ITPs so easily. It is "imperfect" if you will (obv no smile would be perfectly symmetrical, but that's not what i'm getting at). Those of you who have seen it will know.

overall: a very fun person to be around and do stuff. Easy going (outwardly).

The ISFP: ohmygawawwd, the feels. Some people (as I mainly noticed, people with Fe in their stacks, and probably just F altogether), really require you to show emotion about how you feel. The ENTP is not exactly outwardly an emotional mess all the time, and if anything is difficult to show emotion, however in (emotional) arguments, people just want to see emotion and don't care about reason at all. I learned that with this type, even though FiSeNiTe. She wanted to be controlled even more than the ISTP (I imagine the ISFP's inf Te vs the ISTPs dom Ti). The ENTP is rarely if never controlling as it prefers individuality and independence for itself, however this relationship still worked. As you notice the ISFP is an SP as well, the secondary/aux Se. It loves doing things as well. The FiSe seemed even more controlled or open to the Se than the ISTP however, i imagine Fi vs Ti. While lacking Fe, and in place Te, she still could make you feel so intensely and so deeply, but not directly. It was indirect, by watching and observing her, you could feel and see how she felt so deeply. I read in a type summary about the ISFP woman, they called her "the one with whom still waters ran deep." This is unequivocally true, yet although not extraverted in nature, her feelings can move you. If I was currently ranking the level at which they would like to be controlled/dominated it would be ISFP high > ISTP medium/low (keep in mind we are speaking of introverts), and I'm solely speaking on J v P axis, not entirety. The ISFP needed more alone time than the ISTPs did. I intend to refrain from being too pedantic in describing certain types as "caring" etc, because we all know on some level we are caring, but in this manner i solely mean what you can see and feel about that person, not what they actually might be. Although the F is directed inwards in this type, she still seemed more "caring" than the ISTPs.

overall: very emotional (+/-), very caring (remember, as it appears, not as is), fun to be with

If you have noticed yet, I am drawn to introverts, Both Ne/Si craves it. while extraverts may be more outgoing and lively and therefore more likely to possibly engage new Ne events, the majority of them are too fucking shallow for my tastes (an opinion, clearly). I can summarize them up in an instant and get bored, with the introverts, it takes longer, and is more enjoyable (to me). However, speaking on type and the I/E dynamic, it is very possible the two would wear each other down eventually.

ESF?: Meh, not my favorite, too emotional for me. Dom Se would be cool and hypersexual, but both the Fe/Se dom enjoy shit like shopping, care about status too fucking much. <--just not my thing.

ENFJ: have not dated, supposed type match. as it stands right now, I can't fucking stand Fe and all its appeals to emotions and talking about nothing and caring about status. I perfectly see why PJ/other sites recommend the ENTP has hit his career streak first. Those fuckin gold diggers. Jk just that Se. Perhaps in the future I could see myself here, but of the moment, no. However, they are much much more open to Ne's constant change, and don't mind ever talking or being with you, they are energized by you, not tired by you.

I'm just drawn to ISPs as it stands. :storks:

The pain :D

More about self ENTP: I rarely/never/ever regret anything, my mind shifts way too easily and is so focused on the future, I can get over anything in a moment. You can see where this might be +/- in relationships depending on what people care about/matter as I have mentioned above. My intentions are not to tell you what types you should/shouldn't go for or anything, experience it in totality for yourself, I was just writing on my experiences.

Sometimes I can just fall in love with just about anyone. I don't have...standards. I don't 100% have to have brain sex/sex/shorter/taller. I have been with taller/shorter/smarter/dumber/prettier/whatever, I don't even try to describe people.

All that is required for me to be with you is one of two things:

1) stimulate my intuitions (interest me)
AND/OR
2) stimulate my feelings (make me feel)



Auburn shares this post like <1 hr after I post this:

It's like how I've seen an incredibly higher tilt toward Ne-leads claiming they're bisexual. The receptiveness and openness of Ne -- which in its most pure form strives for the complete assimilation of all possibilities at the rejection of none -- would account for some of this ("I like both!"), and it's also easy for them to convince themselves of an idea at any particular point in their life, only to challenge it later. So whilst they may view themselves bisexual one year, the next it may be something else; as it's just their process of experimentation doing what it does. Similar or opposite things happen with other types.
 

TimeAsylums

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As usual,

I (would like to) can tell you that I am finished, but Ne is never done with information, however it is my intention to leave most of you with what I have accomplished in this thread and this: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/ILE-ENTp/

From what I have gathered (my massive Ne picture), I have amassed more than enough necessary information for individuation etc. I am not claiming I will reach there any time soon nor that it is necessarily anyone's final goal, only that it is one of my own. I recognize the value of each function and what each function values. Not only unity between functions, but the accomplishing (or at least peace) of each.


tl;dr after a long enough period of time, it is necessary to take action.

ps, it seems THD is ahead of me (action-wise). There is not much more for me to discuss for those of you Ne's who already know what is.
 
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1. ps, it seems THD is ahead of me (action-wise).

2. There is not much more for me to discuss for those of you Ne's who already know what is.
You have no idea lmfao. x2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcEjcEw_CwI
From what I have gathered (my massive Ne picture), I have amassed more than enough necessary information for individuation etc. I am not claiming I will reach there any time soon nor that it is necessarily anyone's final goal, only that it is one of my own. I recognize the value of each function and what each function values. Not only unity between functions, but the accomplishing (or at least peace) of each.
The benefit comes from leaving the boundaries of one's own cognitive functions. For an ENTP, Te-Ni is ridiculously useful, followed by Fi-Se. Become a cannibal.
 

TimeAsylums

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// I have no idea to what relevancy it will have to other ENTPs, but anyway:

Animals such as dogs, lions, wolfs or so bite each other when little as to learn what is the required amount of strength to cause pain and they get to know that when their sibling Vocalizes it, so basically it's an instinct which is used to let others know that you feel pain.

That's so cute.

Because the first part of my life was devoid of much human contact, I am now learning how to interact with people. I enjoy giving massages because I know how good they make me feel, and the fact that I can make other people feel like that makes me happy. I also tend to "probe&poke" people for reactions, because I am NOT good at reading emotions. I need to be able to actually see how they feel, and I can only do that by seeing what their reactions are to various "pokes." After an extended period of "poking&reactions" I can familiarize myself with that person's reactions, and thus I have a somewhat comprehensive idea of their character...


Directed @Self: OHHH YEAHHHHH I AM A FUCKING INTUITIVE MORON ALRIGHT.
 
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