• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

THD/TA video for Auburn (on ENTPs)

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,774
-->
Location
crib
TA

You seem allot less intimidating that I am afraid to post anything on INTPf cause I might seem stupid where as I could talk to you IRL and perhaps be on equal grounds. :rolleyes:

THD

You are way more childish on the forum than you make out in this video. :p
 

TheScornedReflex

(Per) Version of a truth.
Local time
Tomorrow 9:13 AM
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
1,942
-->
No strip tease? Much sad.
 

Latte

Preferably Not Redundant
Local time
Today 9:13 PM
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
843
-->
Location
Where do you live?
ahahaha

thank you (I'm Auburn)

good video

you're both adorable in ridiculously different way

in regards to being ENFP, why not both? \: D/
 

TimeAsylums

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
3,127
-->
You seem allot less intimidating that I am afraid to post anything on INTPf cause I might seem stupid where as I could talk to you IRL and perhaps be on equal grounds. :rolleyes:

If you perhaps feel that the magnitude of my verbal capacity is too intimidating through the medium of text, the awe would be too great in person.
 

Auburn

Luftschloss Schöpfer
Local time
Today 12:13 PM
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
2,297
-->
Hiya o.o

Ums, well firstly I should say I took the liberty of imaging the vid, but please let me know if you'd like them deleted (either now or in the future), and I'll take them down right away. =)

Secondly, since I visually type via functions (not 4-letters, nor necessarily the traditional hierarchy of functions) my typings may not make sense if you convert them into MBTI terms. For more info on the method I use, the PDFs on this page could elaborate. ^^;

I'll start with TheHabitatDoctor!

I'm quite certain you're a Te user, in fact you have high-Te, which is either dominant or secondary. The judgment processes are discerned through the way the smile curls upward when smiling, as well as the manner of articulation.

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/nIEus6J.png[/bimgx]

Here we see your mouth curling into a smile. Notice how your smile begins to curl inward toward the sides of your nose, rather than pan outward (toward the ears (as you'll see in TA's photos)).

The Fi/Te oscillation pair causes a sort of 'pinching' effect to occur in the muscles between the corner of the lips and the sides of the nose. The effect of the pinching results in a bulging of the cheeks. I'll get to that further below.

[bimgx=250]http://i.imgur.com/TcgX7fn.png[/bimgx]

Here we see the smile in a second phase of levitation. The tension between the sides of the lips and the sides of the nose becomes more pronounced.

[bimgx=250]http://i.imgur.com/mN1bXE6.png[/bimgx]

And here in the third/full stage we see a classic Fi snarling smile. I've seen this look a lot. The smile is almost entirely contained within a vertical space in the center of the face. It "clashes" with the nose-area, though the bulge is hard to see in this image due to lighting.

Now, to elaborate on the 'bulge' I spoke about earlier. I find that one of the easiest ways to demonstrate to someone what this bulge is, is to show it in extreme forms. So the following are extreme examples of the bulge:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/B3DkB8Y.png[/bimgx]

This is FiSe Enya. She has the same sort of muscular tension (and resulting extrusion) on the sides of her nose; see that dip and the shadow it causes? Pay close attention to the nuance of that look. Notice also that all the movement of her smile is concentrated and contained in the immediate area above her upper cheek (shown by the blue box) and the whole of her mouth's motions are contained in an area in the vertical center of the face (shown by the green lines). It's all "scrunched" in there.

Now, for the second extreme example:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/NVy2B7W.png[/bimgx]

Hehe. Recognize Fi-lead Tobey Maguire's meme face? Again, it's exaggerated here, but the essential look is there. The guy on the right, whose name I don't know, is likely an SeFi. These imagse have circles showing where the bulge is, more or less. But remember the bulge is defined not as much by "how far it goes out" of the face, but by whether it's being done via a pinch -- which usually means they're small bulges, but with a high concentration of muscular tension. Fe/Ti smiles can have more of an extrusion but it will not be pinched into a bubble like it is in Fi/Te users.

And the last example I want to show you is a Te-lead friend of mine:

He's the one on the left, in the blue graduation uniform.
[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/d0XyRqk.png[/bimgx]
[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/q8dT6EY.png[/bimgx]
The flash of the camera and gloss of his face really captured the bulges, but also the way that clash with the rest of the face. In general, the smiles of Fi users will look 'unnatural' or even 'awkward' (in contrast to Fe smiles) due to them being uncontrolled and spontaneous. They can be highly asymmetrical, gimpy, and cause the face to seem to be making an expression that wasn't intended.

THD also made several of unnatural/unprompted expressions:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/ThKPerw.png[/bimgx]
Notice how your face looks like it's disgusted or disturbed. In reality, you were not saying anything disturbing -- you were speaking about normal things. But your face made these expressions (which don't match your words) because Fi users don't have 'deliberation' in their facial muscles, and instead their face makes expressions in accord with how they feel internally at the very split second that their mental activity is forming the thought.

So for example, if the thought you were forming had even a sliver of "disassociation" or "dislike", your Fi reacts, and your face may asymmetrically raise half a smile into a partial snarl, or even both, even though what you may articulate doesn't show that disliked element you were reminded of during the formation of the thought.

~~~~~~~~

As far as your perception processes go, I do think you have Ne/Si. But I can't completely confirm this, since I only saw them clearly in a few frames. But here:
[bimgx=340]http://i.imgur.com/JkSv1tF.png[/bimgx]
When recalling information (middle slide) your eyebrows drooped/slacked down heavily from the outer sides and covered the corner of your eyes. This is a typical Si trait. Your eyes also lack the "intense" focus that Se eyes have (see TA's shots for a reference of Se eyes). They look like they are receding into your face, almost hiding.

Hehe, for a brief moment you expanded your eyes to help me see them clearly but that ended up being one of the least clear instances of them -- since you were manually controlling the muscles. In that moment that did look sharp, but a better indicator is how they look in casual events. Still not 100% on this though.

Overall this means you're Te/Fi+Ne/Si, either SiTe or TeSi, though I'd lean more toward SiTe. This is a trend I've seen a lot.. :confused: SiTe's tend to be typed as ENTPs because they do have Ne, and MBTI epic-fails at understanding Si. Due to the nature of oscillation-pairs, someone's "Primary Oscillation" is the most prominent psychic duality of their cognition. In other words, BOTH Si+Ne form the main axis of the SiTe's psyche. So Ne is indeed quite a crucial aspect of their mind and one they will identify with ---- unless they're totally one-dimensional in their development. Only a small percent of Si-leads are actually traditionalist; the 'Traditionalist' is actually only a subset of Si-leads, one which is Si-leavy and Ne-underdeveloped. All other Si-leads are actually quite spontaneous, but within comfortable boundaries which they set themselves.

Now, TimeAsylum!

Your type is very straightforward; definitely Se/Ni + Fe/Ti. More specifically, I think you're SeTi with high-Se. Your eyes are intense, sharp, and constantly 'engaged'. They seem to be needing to soak up the environment. I'll focus on contrasting you against Ne, since that seems to be the only difference. First, here's some images of your eyes:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/aJGGAmv.png[/bimgx]

If I had to use single words to describe your eyes I'd say they look "cat-like", "cunning", "focused", "forward", or "sharp". In technical terms, the space above the outer edges of your eyes is always pulled up. This causes your eyebrows to appear to be slanting down toward the nose. Also, your eyelid constantly remains lowered over the top of your eyes at the same altitude. Another important aspect is that the area below your eyes, on the outer edges, is pulled out too.

Going further, when you concentrate or recall information, this is how your eyes look:

[bimgx=450]http://i.imgur.com/LroUNub.png[/bimgx]

This is (rightly identified) the 'Manic' look of Se/Ni eyes when concentrating. This is caused by the eyebrow contracting toward the center while the eyes don't give up their sharp and intense look. So what happens is that intensity is greatly amplified by the scowl. Compare that to the image of THD scowling up above, where his eyes look more meek/sad/confused than manic/angry/sharp. (Not saying you're angry! ...just dunno how to describe them better)

Your eyes do toggle somewhat, which is a trait of both Exploration processes (Ne and Se) and also indicates strong Pe, but your eyes retain a focus that Ne eyes don't. Ne eyes look more 'naive' and confused (even when they're not), and have a softness to the area around the eyes, rather than a 'pull'. Their upper eyelid also doesn't stay lowered over the top of their eyes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for the Fe/Ti duality, this is solidly Fe:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/Bo5H4j1.png[/bimgx]

[bimgx=300]http://i.imgur.com/5zJwNww.png[/bimgx]

Your smile pans outward to the sides (toward your ears), entirely lacking tension between muscles. In other words, there are no muscles contradicting each other in their direction of pull. The muscles that are working are pulling outward, and your skin simply folds itself where it needs to due to the natural pull of the face.

I tried to be brief, but it turned out longer than I expected. c.c
And there's definitely more cues I could name, but I'll leave it at that.
 

The Gopher

President
Local time
Tomorrow 7:13 AM
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
4,667
-->
YAY I GOT A MENTION!

Edit: wait so does that mean neither of them are ENTP? LOL
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
Local time
Tomorrow 7:13 AM
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
7,253
-->
Location
69S 69E
Reminds me of Les and Larry from Primus.

TA and THD in 30 years:

 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,774
-->
Location
crib
TA

Does this change your perspective on how type works?
Do we come to the same truths with different functions?
Or how do we get at higher truths?
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 3:13 PM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
-->
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
TA my orthodontist is taking a great deal of interest in you. He seems to be envious. I don't know how to stop him.
 

TimeAsylums

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
3,127
-->
TA my orthodontist is taking a great deal of interest in you. He seems to be envious. I don't know how to stop him.

oh, yeah? u want sum fight club with that? u want to destroy something beautiful?
 

Puffy

Mindless serf
Local time
Today 8:13 PM
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
3,035
-->
Location
Infected
If I remember Auburn thought I was ENTP (or maybe ENFP, one of the two) though I don't think it was a proper read.

I AM THE ONLY TRUE NE-TI!! :D:cat:

THD reminded me of Les Claypool as well, actually.
 

TimeAsylums

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
3,127
-->
If I remember Auburn thought ...

hehehh, her function readings probably weren't incorrect (now), I read a ton of articles over at CT, I agree internally and externally about what the functions appear as in the physiological and I love their formal definitions, it is really helpful

but the real truth is

I

am...

I am

Individuated

Individuation
 

Puffy

Mindless serf
Local time
Today 8:13 PM
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
3,035
-->
Location
Infected

Fukyo

blurb blurb
Local time
Today 9:13 PM
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,288
-->
Amusing video, too bad it wasn't longer.

TA is pretty much congruent with his forum persona, if subdued. THD was somewhat endearingly :phear: awkward and cagey, though he lacks that smartass vibe he has here.
 

TimeAsylums

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
3,127
-->
TA is pretty much congruent with his forum persona, if subdued. THD was somewhat endearingly :phear: awkward and cagey, though he lacks that smartass vibe he has here.

I concur,

TA: *Say something that 'sounds' (may or may not be)^ smart,*
*laugh his ass off*

THD: a little more awkward, but still got jokez, oddly 5x more introverted AND shy (different meanings) than I am

^ = depends on if trolling or not

as far as subdued for moi, probably all teh indica -> hence the display of Se eyez
 

TimeAsylums

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
3,127
-->
/SUPER EGO

/individuation

can switch form this corporeal self to the abstract map (order of magnitudes), can also switch to the concrete map and find multiple explanations via the abstract meaning (parameters), certain activities help prime certain functions, Fi scowls > Te come so easily, I love feeling the ego of Fi, the hurt it gets, the desire it needs, Fucking hate my FeSi tendency toward the neeed2please fml, nonetheless acknowledged all parts of myself are me, and embrace them as any 110% big 5 Openness and Ne wuld.

Pod'lair typed a video (awhile ago) of me as INTJ xD
Auburn got me as SeTi (I think her typo meant high-Ne, not just high Se), so ESTP with high Ne (I think that's what she meant, I've already read a lot of stuff at CT),

Aw yeah...embrace your functions

the zen (blue brain) moment of Ni is beautiful (as described by THD in one his posts and is described all over CT articles/forums), existing here is beautiful, existing in the meaning is beautiful, existing outside of the meaning is beautiful,



I accept all parts without rejection, Union (Unite) the enantiodromia


combine multiple use of functions (depending on what purpose) to meta
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 3:13 PM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
-->
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
Moderators told me never to talk about that.
 

Ink

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 9:13 PM
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
926
-->
Location
svealand
Hiya o.o

Ums, well firstly I should say I took the liberty of imaging the vid, but please let me know if you'd like them deleted (either now or in the future), and I'll take them down right away. =)

Secondly, since I visually type via functions (not 4-letters, nor necessarily the traditional hierarchy of functions) my typings may not make sense if you convert them into MBTI terms. For more info on the method I use, the PDFs on this page could elaborate. ^^;

I'll start with TheHabitatDoctor!

I'm quite certain you're a Te user, in fact you have high-Te, which is either dominant or secondary. The judgment processes are discerned through the way the smile curls upward when smiling, as well as the manner of articulation.

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/nIEus6J.png[/bimgx]

Here we see your mouth curling into a smile. Notice how your smile begins to curl inward toward the sides of your nose, rather than pan outward (toward the ears (as you'll see in TA's photos)).

The Fi/Te oscillation pair causes a sort of 'pinching' effect to occur in the muscles between the corner of the lips and the sides of the nose. The effect of the pinching results in a bulging of the cheeks. I'll get to that further below.

[bimgx=250]http://i.imgur.com/TcgX7fn.png[/bimgx]

Here we see the smile in a second phase of levitation. The tension between the sides of the lips and the sides of the nose becomes more pronounced.

[bimgx=250]http://i.imgur.com/mN1bXE6.png[/bimgx]

And here in the third/full stage we see a classic Fi snarling smile. I've seen this look a lot. The smile is almost entirely contained within a vertical space in the center of the face. It "clashes" with the nose-area, though the bulge is hard to see in this image due to lighting.

Now, to elaborate on the 'bulge' I spoke about earlier. I find that one of the easiest ways to demonstrate to someone what this bulge is, is to show it in extreme forms. So the following are extreme examples of the bulge:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/B3DkB8Y.png[/bimgx]

This is FiSe Enya. She has the same sort of muscular tension (and resulting extrusion) on the sides of her nose; see that dip and the shadow it causes? Pay close attention to the nuance of that look. Notice also that all the movement of her smile is concentrated and contained in the immediate area above her upper cheek (shown by the blue box) and the whole of her mouth's motions are contained in an area in the vertical center of the face (shown by the green lines). It's all "scrunched" in there.

Now, for the second extreme example:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/NVy2B7W.png[/bimgx]

Hehe. Recognize Fi-lead Tobey Maguire's meme face? Again, it's exaggerated here, but the essential look is there. The guy on the right, whose name I don't know, is likely an SeFi. These imagse have circles showing where the bulge is, more or less. But remember the bulge is defined not as much by "how far it goes out" of the face, but by whether it's being done via a pinch -- which usually means they're small bulges, but with a high concentration of muscular tension. Fe/Ti smiles can have more of an extrusion but it will not be pinched into a bubble like it is in Fi/Te users.

And the last example I want to show you is a Te-lead friend of mine:

He's the one on the left, in the blue graduation uniform.
[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/d0XyRqk.png[/bimgx]
[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/q8dT6EY.png[/bimgx]
The flash of the camera and gloss of his face really captured the bulges, but also the way that clash with the rest of the face. In general, the smiles of Fi users will look 'unnatural' or even 'awkward' (in contrast to Fe smiles) due to them being uncontrolled and spontaneous. They can be highly asymmetrical, gimpy, and cause the face to seem to be making an expression that wasn't intended.

THD also made several of unnatural/unprompted expressions:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/ThKPerw.png[/bimgx]
Notice how your face looks like it's disgusted or disturbed. In reality, you were not saying anything disturbing -- you were speaking about normal things. But your face made these expressions (which don't match your words) because Fi users don't have 'deliberation' in their facial muscles, and instead their face makes expressions in accord with how they feel internally at the very split second that their mental activity is forming the thought.

So for example, if the thought you were forming had even a sliver of "disassociation" or "dislike", your Fi reacts, and your face may asymmetrically raise half a smile into a partial snarl, or even both, even though what you may articulate doesn't show that disliked element you were reminded of during the formation of the thought.

~~~~~~~~

As far as your perception processes go, I do think you have Ne/Si. But I can't completely confirm this, since I only saw them clearly in a few frames. But here:
[bimgx=340]http://i.imgur.com/JkSv1tF.png[/bimgx]
When recalling information (middle slide) your eyebrows drooped/slacked down heavily from the outer sides and covered the corner of your eyes. This is a typical Si trait. Your eyes also lack the "intense" focus that Se eyes have (see TA's shots for a reference of Se eyes). They look like they are receding into your face, almost hiding.

Hehe, for a brief moment you expanded your eyes to help me see them clearly but that ended up being one of the least clear instances of them -- since you were manually controlling the muscles. In that moment that did look sharp, but a better indicator is how they look in casual events. Still not 100% on this though.

Overall this means you're Te/Fi+Ne/Si, either SiTe or TeSi, though I'd lean more toward SiTe. This is a trend I've seen a lot.. :confused: SiTe's tend to be typed as ENTPs because they do have Ne, and MBTI epic-fails at understanding Si. Due to the nature of oscillation-pairs, someone's "Primary Oscillation" is the most prominent psychic duality of their cognition. In other words, BOTH Si+Ne form the main axis of the SiTe's psyche. So Ne is indeed quite a crucial aspect of their mind and one they will identify with ---- unless they're totally one-dimensional in their development. Only a small percent of Si-leads are actually traditionalist; the 'Traditionalist' is actually only a subset of Si-leads, one which is Si-leavy and Ne-underdeveloped. All other Si-leads are actually quite spontaneous, but within comfortable boundaries which they set themselves.

Now, TimeAsylum!

Your type is very straightforward; definitely Se/Ni + Fe/Ti. More specifically, I think you're SeTi with high-Se. Your eyes are intense, sharp, and constantly 'engaged'. They seem to be needing to soak up the environment. I'll focus on contrasting you against Ne, since that seems to be the only difference. First, here's some images of your eyes:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/aJGGAmv.png[/bimgx]

If I had to use single words to describe your eyes I'd say they look "cat-like", "cunning", "focused", "forward", or "sharp". In technical terms, the space above the outer edges of your eyes is always pulled up. This causes your eyebrows to appear to be slanting down toward the nose. Also, your eyelid constantly remains lowered over the top of your eyes at the same altitude. Another important aspect is that the area below your eyes, on the outer edges, is pulled out too.

Going further, when you concentrate or recall information, this is how your eyes look:

[bimgx=450]http://i.imgur.com/LroUNub.png[/bimgx]

This is (rightly identified) the 'Manic' look of Se/Ni eyes when concentrating. This is caused by the eyebrow contracting toward the center while the eyes don't give up their sharp and intense look. So what happens is that intensity is greatly amplified by the scowl. Compare that to the image of THD scowling up above, where his eyes look more meek/sad/confused than manic/angry/sharp. (Not saying you're angry! ...just dunno how to describe them better)

Your eyes do toggle somewhat, which is a trait of both Exploration processes (Ne and Se) and also indicates strong Pe, but your eyes retain a focus that Ne eyes don't. Ne eyes look more 'naive' and confused (even when they're not), and have a softness to the area around the eyes, rather than a 'pull'. Their upper eyelid also doesn't stay lowered over the top of their eyes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for the Fe/Ti duality, this is solidly Fe:

[bimgx=400]http://i.imgur.com/Bo5H4j1.png[/bimgx]

[bimgx=300]http://i.imgur.com/5zJwNww.png[/bimgx]

Your smile pans outward to the sides (toward your ears), entirely lacking tension between muscles. In other words, there are no muscles contradicting each other in their direction of pull. The muscles that are working are pulling outward, and your skin simply folds itself where it needs to due to the natural pull of the face.

I tried to be brief, but it turned out longer than I expected. c.c
And there's definitely more cues I could name, but I'll leave it at that.

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16Types/16Types.cfm

I think this model might be useful here. THD may use his "critical parent" role a lot.

The Critical Parent Role
(sometimes referred to as the 6th function)

The critical parent role is how we find weak spots and can immobilize and demoralize others.

We can also feel this way when others use the process that plays this role.

It is often used sporadically and emerges more often under stressful conditions when something important is at risk. When we engage it, we can go on and on.

To access its positive side of discovery, we must learn to appreciate and be open to it. Then it has an almost magical quality and can provide a profound sense of wisdom.
 

Base groove

Banned
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
1,864
-->
Auburn got me as SeTi (I think her typo meant high-Ne, not just high Se) <sorry TA don't think so, so ESTP with high Ne (I think that's what she meant, I've already read a lot of stuff at CT),

Aw yeah...embrace your functions

the zen (blue brain) moment of Ni is beautiful (as described by THD in one his posts and is described all over CT articles/forums), existing here is beautiful, existing in the meaning is beautiful, existing outside of the meaning is beautiful,


Interesting. Going to watch the video later because I was just taking a break from a documentary which I'd like to get back to.

He typed me as SeTi about a year ago, while I was stoned :cat:

Auburn, your methods are very interesting to me, and I have been following your website. You have reliable indicators that enable you to stay consistent within the framework of your theory. Certainly the largest margin of potential error lies within the validity of your assessment, of course I mean no offense by this.

Recently I reviewed your video on NiTe types where you indicated that Pi-lead is manifest by shifting the body backwards or straightening the posture, along with an 'inward retreat' of the eyes, if I recall correctly. Contrast with the SeFi video where the Se function is identified by a certain alertness of the eyes and swaying of the body.

The part I'd like to call to question is that in both videos you mentioned that the eyes steering the head is indicative of P lead as well, however in the Se video you specified Pe. If I am wrong about this I apologize; it was yesterday that I am trying to recall.

Could you briefly explain how you differentiate between Se and Ni in P-lead types?
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 3:13 PM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
-->
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
I whispered. You screamed.
 

Cherry Cola

Banned
Local time
Today 8:13 PM
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
3,899
-->
Location
stockholm
THD looks and acts slightly nervous hence the manner of speaking. The still shots of transitional facial expressions aren't convincing; if you pause a video of a person at the right moment you can get any expression you want.

And ofc Ta will have a steady fixated gaze sitting so close to the camera looking into the computer screen. That and he has big eyes in a purely physical sense.

I don't get this, is the point to see what happens when you try visual reading or are these results actually supposed to be correct? Because if it's the latter than this is fail. I could take other stills and explain their behavior and body language and come up with something completely different if I wanted to.

Furthermore body language and manners wary depending on culture and a million of other factors... this way of typing... just no.

I mean how do you account for the fact that what you've concluded through your visual reading runs counter to what we know from the forum, the way Ta and THD both write in a typical Ne way, describe themselves as doing so etc?

I've asked this before in other threads and you've yet to answer. I feel like I'm missing out on something here because I seem to be the only one whose reaction is sceptic and critical. What would it be that I don't get?
 

Puffy

Mindless serf
Local time
Today 8:13 PM
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
3,035
-->
Location
Infected
Moderators told me never to talk about that.

Auburn presumably had permission from TA and Habi to read them, given that the thread title says for Auburn and given the knowledge that Auburn's work heavily involves typing people. This thread's about TA and Habi and what they've volunteered of themselves anyway, I'd say it's pretty intrinsic to the context of the thread that people might comment on their type, etc.
 

TimeAsylums

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
3,127
-->
Auburn presumably had permission from TA and Habi to read them, given that the thread title says for Auburn and given the knowledge that Auburn's work heavily involves typing people. This thread's about TA and Habi and what they've volunteered of themselves anyway, I'd say it's pretty intrinsic to the context of the thread that people might comment on their type, etc.


psssst...he was responding on my joke to one of his posts

I said "oh, fight club?"
to which he (may have) referenced "do not talk about fight club"
the mods being the higher powers
 

Auburn

Luftschloss Schöpfer
Local time
Today 12:13 PM
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
2,297
-->
Auburn, your methods are very interesting to me, and I have been following your website. You have reliable indicators that enable you to stay consistent within the framework of your theory. Certainly the largest margin of potential error lies within the validity of your assessment, of course I mean no offense by this.
Mhm. =) Objectively I don't see anything limiting about the methodology in itself, but the execution/reading can vary... -- not everyone is equally adept at it, in the same way not everyone's adept at reading lips. I wouldn't say I'm fail-proof. But I do wanna describe what I see to be true.

The part I'd like to call to question is that in both videos you mentioned that the eyes steering the head is indicative of P lead as well, however in the Se video you specified Pe. If I am wrong about this I apologize; it was yesterday that I am trying to recall.
Ah, since eyes-steering-the-head is a Perception-Lead sign, it does belongs to both Pi-Leads and Pe-Leads. It may've been more accurate to just say P-lead. In the case of the SeFi videos, they're all P-leads too, but the focus was on how eyes-sterring looks when Pe is the lead process (as opposed to Pi).

Could you briefly explain how you differentiate between Se and Ni in P-lead types?
The main difference is 'typically': alert eyes vs unimpressed eyes. So, eyes peeled at the brim of their sockets vs upper eyebrow slightly lowered and resting on the top of the eyes. But that alone isn't always enough because sometimes Se-leads can have strong polar-Ni use and that will show in their eyes too (or vice versa).

In that case we need to more closely consider energy (Pe-bubbling/crisp energy VS Pi-viscosity) and the judgment processes (i.e. - Fe and Fi smiles will look different in different roles/orders of the psyche). If it can be determined that, say, their Te is indeed secondary, then we can suspect Ni/Se starts with Ni. If their energy flow also confirms and aligns with this, we can be more certain still. And so on with other signals; the person is seen as a whole, considering how the signals are interacting with each other, and not just as a compartmentalized set of signals. ^^
 

Base groove

Banned
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
1,864
-->
In that case we need to more closely consider energy (Pe-bubbling/crisp energy VS Pi-viscosity) and the judgment processes (i.e. - Fe and Fi smiles will look different in different roles/orders of the psyche). If it can be determined that, say, their Te is indeed secondary, then we can suspect Ni/Se starts with Ni. If their energy flow also confirms and aligns with this, we can be more certain still. And so on with other signals; the person is seen as a whole, considering how the signals are interacting with each other, and not just as a compartmentalized set of signals.

Forgive me if I'm totally missing the point here,

But it seems like you just rationalized your typing of THD (Si-dom) based on an identification of the auxiliary and not the dominant. The dominant you arrived at by deduction to make sure the typing is consistent with the theoretical framework.

Why is it that you are able to positively identify the inferior and auxiliary functions but you have to deduce the dominant??

~ Again, I want to understand the algorithms you use, and critically identify potential shortcomings ... I would like to reassure you/reiterate that I don't mean to tactlessly imply you are accurate or inaccurate.


~~ I should be clear: my chief criticism is that my understanding of Jung's theory is that the auxiliary function is poorly differentiated compared to the dominant, so a Si type would show Te and Fe in varying degrees but would be relatively consistent with Si,

Thus, I don't see how it is possible to positively identify a weaker function in order to gain the footing to speculate about a stronger one.
 

Auburn

Luftschloss Schöpfer
Local time
Today 12:13 PM
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
2,297
-->
@ Base Groove - Sure. ^^ And no need to add disclaimers (though I appreciate the honest inquiry). Grab a snack, this might take a while!

I suppose I should start by creating a rough scale of how reads are done:

  • The functions are identified
  • The Primary and Supportive oscillation pair is identified
  • The Lead and Secondary function is identified

1. Function-Pairs, before Hierarchy:
Before getting into how each of these is done, it's important to know several things. Firstly, CT theory doesn't strongly fixate on order of processes. The reason for this is because whilst the method can consistently identify 'what' functions are being used, their utilization varies a lot between people.

This is the inverse of what was done by MBTI. The MBTI will tell you that your dom is your strongest point, and that it's the most "solid" part of your psychological type, while the others are weaker and play a lesser role.

Through visual reading, I've seen this to be false. People utilize their four processes quite a lot, in real-time, and in conjunction with each other to produce certain effects. The brain is not compartmentalized but is more of a set of interlocking gears (or algorithms, if you will) working in tandem.

Seeing it from that sense, it makes sense why identifying the dom isn't a crucial thing. What matters more than anything is identifying "what" functions they have, because the pieces available are what define everything else.

Now, going back to this interlocking-gears/algorithm thing...
The way the cognitive functions work is by dualities. The Exploration process (Pe) absorbs information from the environment, and then that information is categorized by the worldview process (Pi) into a mesh or 'tapestry' of stored stimuli. Pe cannot operate without Pi because each one's role would become futile without the other.

Remember at the end of the videos how there's a chart with two wheels? That shows the Pe-Pi pair, and the Je-Ji pair. In the text it says that one of the wheels is dominant in a person, while the other is supportive.

What this essentially means is that some people's modus-operadi is fixed on assimilating information (and not making rigid judgments of it, but instead trying to synthesize it within itself). They will use both their Pi and Pe heavily for this ('cause both are needed), while using Je-Ji less. In this point of view it could even be said that the hierarchical order of, say, an SiTe is: Si/Ne > Te/Fi, and not Si > Te > Fi > Ne.

2. Dominant-Auxiliary Axis vs Dominant-Polar Axis:
The MBTI theory proposes that the main 'axes' occur between the dom-aux and tert-inferior functions. So "Si-Te" is considered its own axes, while "Fi-Ne" is considered its own axes. This is true to some extent for some people, but look closely at what that creates. If a person is cycling between Si and Te (at the exclusion of Fi and Ne) then the pairs are not working efficiently. Rather than explore with Ne, Si's information remains static and is just used toward a Te initiative. Si needs Ne to engage in order to grow, and Te needs Fi in order to calibrate itself keenly. So, predictably so, the MBTI interpretation yields descriptions of types that are one-sided in their development. That's precisely what you'd expect from someone who is using Si-Te as their main axes. They wouldn't venture into new ideas, but use the same old ones to execute a logistical approach that also doesn't adjust much to ethical sensitivities.

This is also why the MBTI does hold some truth, and why it's attractive. Some percentage (about a quarter) of people use the dom-aux oscillation as their favorite. It's one manifestation of that type. But the other 3/4 of people are left in limbo, fall into the wrong type, or just disregard it altogether because they don't believe humanity can be divided into those sixteen plain categories -- and in a way they're right.

Overall the first thing to identify is what functions are in use. The next thing that can be identified is which oscillation or "axis" is their dominant, and which is their supportive. If their dominant oscillation is Perception, they're lead by synthesis of information, and utilize Judgment to aide that synthesis (and vice versa). These translate into Rational or Irrational types, by Jung's definition, or J-leads vs P-leads.

(Note: It's a bad idea to try to identify the dominant first (visually) because sometimes other processes are more "visible" simply due to their nature. For example, a process like Fe will make more displays and send off more cues due to its extroverted nature, while something like Si will be identified more indirectly -- even though it's the dominant process, because Si is not a proactive process that makes displays. This is why it can be hard to identify a lead process if it's an introverted one.)

3. Lead & Support Processes
NeFi (ENFP) is closer to SiTe (ISTJ) than any other type.
Both have a dominant Ne/Si axis, with a supportive Te/Fi axis.

Both start by using an abstract data absorption process (Ne), and categorizing that data literally as anchor-points (Si) repeatedly to form large databases of trivia.

Both utilize Te/Fi to gauge "what to do" in life, in light of what they see with their perceptive processes ---- but they are not heavily fixated on life's ethical or logistical imperatives. They are moreso bystanders and observers who may have some ethical and logistical views, but they remain a secondary interest to their never-ceasing information intake.

This stereotypically translates to NeFi's being those that "try everything" and entertain many ideas and are receptive to varying experiences ---- and SiTe's being quirky, silly trivia-banks who seem curiously knowledgeable but have to be pulled into new experiences, but end up having a good time in the end.

The difference is mostly in the direction of energy flow. Energy flow is what determines what direction the oscillation pair is going. An NeFi is proactive, and an SiTe is reactive. An SiTe may start with reluctance, but once their Ne is engaged they'll go off. Sometimes this takes a friend or someone close. The ones I've known have been hardcore nerds and data-hoarders, and sometimes trinket-hoarders. But then they'll have a hobby of wanting to talk about things like law, or politics -- something that engages their Te's desire for logistical calibration of an external system, even if it's speculatively.

While this is indeed an important distinction, cognitively speaking, it is the smallest difference. The psyche is utilized in almost the same way, at least in healthy individuals not fixated/gripped in their top two processes. c.c

~~~
Why is it that you are able to positively identify the inferior and auxiliary functions but you have to deduce the dominant??
*cough* er, so going back on track... I hope the above answered that, mostly. In THD's case I'm not really fully sure of his dominant but that's more to do with the video quality on the eyes. Either way, things can be understood by the relation that functions play to one another. So for example, even if you see signals for, say, Ne, you can know it's either dominant or polar by the manner in which they lead with their eyes, which is a trait shared by all P-leads.

Some traits are function-exclusive, while other traits are observable in groups of types (like "high-Fi users", etc).

Regarding Jung: I believe that Jung was able to see the processes so clearly in his patients, and thus outline them for the first time in the book Psychological Types, because he was dealing with neurotic patients whose functions were over-exerted. This is seen in the often pessimistic and destructive way he describes the processes in Chapter X of said book. It's because he saw what Ti looks like when it spirals into itself unhealthily, or what Si looks like when uncheked in an unbalanced individual.

When it came to an average healthy person, who isn't too introverted or extroverted, Jung didn't have a very clear sight of their type -- and said most people sit somewhere in the middle. In other words he had no direct means of identifying type in a normal person, but was able to see the functions when manifest in their extreme forms in neurotic cases. This is what I would expect, given his filed of work.

But the phenomenon he saw, doesn't stop being real when a person grows to be healthy -- even though they no longer manifest those extreme traits. Nor was their type not present when they were healthy, and then suddenly their type appeared when they became neurotic. It was there all along, just not recognizable. Visual reading bypasses that and allows for the identification of type within normal, healthy and even balanced individuals.

But then we also have to redefine the type descriptions to account for balanced versions of the types, because healthy individuals won't identify with the dom-aux limitations of capacity.
 

Auburn

Luftschloss Schöpfer
Local time
Today 12:13 PM
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
2,297
-->
I should know better by now, than to keep posting... ^^;
I think I'll withdraw from this thread (pm me if you'd like), and keep focusing on presenting my entire case for this phenomenon in the book i'm writing. It's time-consuming to explain little portions of the theory in posts here-and-there, and inevitably leave tons of unanswered questions. It's understandably unconvincing and unfruitful. Thanks tho, it was fun to see you guys. :)
 

Base groove

Banned
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
1,864
-->
I should know better by now, than to keep posting...

I hadn't noticed your edits until now. Thanks for answering my questions. I believe I understand most what you said.

Curious aspect about ENFP - I had a similar thought.
 

TBerg

fallen angel who hasn't earned his wings
Local time
Today 2:13 PM
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
2,453
-->
So, TA and THD walk into a bar. TA, in his mad meta-stasizing self, decides to document everything and reports that everything is indeed meta. THD goes along with it, but cognizant of his split soul, cannot get too wrapped up in the whole venture. TA knows what he is getting into, due to his integrated synthesizer, and orders drink after drink. But something in THD keeps him from realizing the holistic experience and must take his time battling for the congregation of the whole damn thing. At the end, they both decide that it was really awesome having two powerful psyches doing what they do best and creating something the world does not see very often. THD goes to bed having certain hangups about the completed day, but awakens without a hangover. TA goes to bed and is sucked into a profound dream of understanding the grand scheme of things, but then gets awake with a hangover that reveals some of the tatters that remain.
 

The Gopher

President
Local time
Tomorrow 7:13 AM
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
4,667
-->
Keep daily videos coming! I bet it will get less awkward with time. If you need a topic just talk about what you did briefly at the start of each day.
 

Base groove

Banned
Local time
Today 1:13 PM
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
1,864
-->
Instead of staging these moments you guys could run the recording equipment all day and then select the most candid/effusive moments to get the most accurate representation.... of your SENSORHOOD. jk

Just open up a live feed 24h so we can watch everything.
 
Top Bottom