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Structural Cognitive Deficiency

Black Rose

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So why is it a bad thing to clean your room?

When I was 6 years old I remember my dad had a trailer with cigarettes everywhere.

When my brother became my dad's age he was 6 times as filthy and damaged my mom's property by at least $20,000

My sister did drugs and had sex with more than 10 men, then she got pregnant and was set straight.

so why does this happen, because people are spiritually broken inside. And the physiology of addiction.

Addiction happens because it makes you feel good and makes you feel normal.

And like not taking showers you feel fine because there is a threshold for pain tolerance.

Some people just have that ability to take in poisons and toxins and not care because of tolerance in physiology.

So why is this a moral taboo, "cleaning your room is bad"? because it means you start seeing people as they are.

That means you need to start looking at the real problems in biology that cause dirty rooms.

Instead of just saying "Hey people eat shit because they have bad taste buds" we blame people for being unhealthy.

We blame people for doing drugs instead of looking at what is inside their cellular metabolism.

And if we looked inside the metabolisms of these people we would need to blame the healthcare system.

But instead, we blame people for being dirty in a different way, morally they are rotten not because of biology but because we cannot do anything to stop the problem. Stopping the problem requires looking at the healthcare system and the prison system and the political system and the food industry. it costs money to make people heathy and if we needed to make people healthy that would mean we need to stop certain people from making them unhealthy.

What happened after the civil rights movement was called the Southern Strategy. This would make it possible to keep black people down. First, if you cannot use paper tests to keep them from voting you instead gerrymander them. Then you use the CIA to import drugs into the most vulnerable communities and on and on.

That is exactly what you get when people do not want clean rooms because certain people have dark skin and you cannot blame them for being this way because if you did then The CIA would need to be taken to court and we cannot do that and we cannot tell people that drug is bad because then san francisco would need to reinvent healthcare system to take money away from silicon valley mega billionaires and corporations. people have the right to fail is what Sam Altman said.

So the rich created this thing where they do not want poor people and black people to have money to help them with mental health and other such things. Instead, we say cleaning rooms is bad because if you clean your room you will see that the rich keep you down and the CIA and Silicon Valley. And all people that want you broken and a human being. Clean Rooms = Oppression so let's keep people in the dirt so we keep all the money.

Basically, in society, broken human beings were caused by many factors in the United States - This created a society of conspiracy theories where the government was bad. The Kenedy assassination and all things that led people to distrust the government. PSTD is what happens all the time in the USA to all people all the time. Vietnam was a scam to fight communism yet we gave them all the industry via Henery Kissinger. and we also said that after 9/11 we needed to stop the terrorists from destroying our way of life, bush said: "Buy more stuff to stop them". Mission accomplished and for 20 years were were in Afghanistan growing drugs to sell for profit.

Yes, we need to keep rooms dirty,

This is what we need to do as good patriotic citizens.

 

Black Rose

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I find it highly suspicious that the "elites" get to have clean rooms well the rest of us can't.

I do not smoke, drink alcohol, or do drugs.

But I am also very conscientious.

bydiQG6.png


The Big 5 as Education Tiers​

Neuroticism (Kindergarten)

Kids learn self-control and respect for others.

Openness (Elementry)

Seeing the different world views of all possibilities.

Conscientiousness (Middle School)

Finding how to structure order and manage one’s time and resources.

Extraversion (High School)

Finding one’s place in society, the click we wish to associate with.

Agreeableness (University)

Knowing the correct way to interact with one’s true peer groups.
 

ZenRaiden

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So what do you want to talk about.
I honestly don't care about BIG Five that much. Its nice, but has no practical application in my life.
When it comes to the topics you tapped in , I think most of them are interesting, but without going into some debt it seems boring.

So what do you want to talk about?
 

Black Rose

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So what do you want to talk about?

physiology is the cause of most people's lifestyles

but then this can be taken advantage of

most of the public does not have access to genuine healthcare

this was by design or by capitalism?

poor people definitively do not know how to take care of themselves

so like what makes people physiologically conditioned to be emotionally and cognitively damaged in this way? All factors involved?
 

ZenRaiden

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physiology is the cause of most people's lifestyles
Thats your opening statement and probably correct, but its also meaningless statement. Every internal body process = physiology.

but then this can be taken advantage of
That is what brains do.

most of the public does not have access to genuine healthcare
True and?

this was by design or by capitalism?
Both.

poor people definitively do not know how to take care of themselves
It can be learned.

so like what makes people physiologically conditioned to be emotionally and cognitively damaged in this way? All factors involved?
Biggest factor is parents who screw up children.
You will find few people who had good parents and are unhappy.
 

Black Rose

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Every internal body process = physiology.
It can be learned.

maybe it can

but then that requires learning materials to change physiology

I was not taught how the body works, I found little information on the internet

it may be in books or in high-end Olympics finest trainer brains, but I am not sure I can get to those things. definitely, I cannot get to neurofeedback trainers in my area.

everything I have access to is for extremely cognitively impaired persons, I might talk to a nutritionist because my doctor does not care about my health and my therapist does not care about my trauma or listen and my psychiatrist is too busy to tell me how the brain works.

I think most people have not been told how to take care of their bodies for the same reason they take money away from poor kid's schools. They want some people to have it and others not to have it. The government is run by people who want poor people to remain poor. So take money away from schools with poor people and don't teach them stuff to take care of themselves.
 

SteppeWanderer

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Every internal body process = physiology.
It can be learned.

maybe it can

but then that requires learning materials to change physiology

I was not taught how the body works, I found little information on the internet

it may be in books or in high-end Olympics finest trainer brains, but I am not sure I can get to those things. definitely, I cannot get to neurofeedback trainers in my area.

everything I have access to is for extremely cognitively impaired persons, I might talk to a nutritionist because my doctor does not care about my health and my therapist does not care about my trauma or listen and my psychiatrist is too busy to tell me how the brain works.

I think most people have not been told how to take care of their bodies for the same reason they take money away from poor kid's schools. They want some people to have it and others not to have it. The government is run by people who want poor people to remain poor. So take money away from schools with poor people and don't teach them stuff to take care of themselves.
There’s actually no way to know how the brain works, you would have to operate and perform studies on the brain of a living person and this has never been done before, so you can’t really know how the brain works nobody knows for sure, don’t believe people who say they do their material is not backed by facts.
 

EndogenousRebel

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They may hesitate to work with you if you inform them about your conditions, but you can get a consumer tier EEG like the Muse, then after that purchase, pay for Myndlyft (not cheap but one time payment), after which you can get training programs for relaxation or focus brain states.

If you don't want Myndlyft, there's the cheaper mind monitor, but then you'd have to learn how to interpret the graphs and basic coding at the most. Myndlyft just streamlines that.

I think I had montage that targeted raising theta waves and lowering beta waves, and I swear I had an auditory hallucination, so I would definitely let them know your issues.
 

ZenRaiden

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There’s actually no way to know how the brain works, you would have to operate and perform studies on the brain of a living person and this has never been done before, so you can’t really know how the brain works nobody knows for sure, don’t believe people who say they do their material is not backed by facts.
Psychology - Medicine - everything about our bodies we know is 90 percent just correlations, which most people who don't know won't know.

Why doctors and psychologist seem so smart? Because they spend years honing on this skill, where 100s of years of studies and empircal data have been compiled into what we call modern medicine.

Doctors of all sorts can tell you amazing things about the body, but lots of times, you can just ask why? and ... believe it or not they won't know why.

QED Why we get diabetes?
Why we get cancer?
Why we get schizophrenia?
Why we have any mental illness?
Why do some people cure of these major illnesses and others never do?
Why are you 6 feet tall as opposed to 5 feet tall.
Why anything and you usually have no answer, other than its genetics, its environment, its endorphins, seretonins, dopamins etc.

We don't even know how brain chemistry functions, the proto science of neural chemistry is insufficient to explain anything.

We don't know why our brain is the way it is at all, we don't know how it does what it does most of the time.

We can infer some correlations between the brain and its activity with what we do mentally, but a lot of times, these are mere correlations (aka a means b) types of things.

Now sometimes we actually do know, to a degree, but even then there is more questions than answers.

This is actually good news for all people who are entering medicine and psychiatry, as there is no end to it. You can literally take a jab at anything and possibly make a new break through, or find something and figure out something interesting.
The sad news is you won't be curing anything major anytime soon, like lupus or ms or cancer, or mental health issues.

But average person cannot even understand the car, let alone a complex interrelated system like the brain or body.

Human bodies are one of the most complicated system we ever knew, and it will take another 1000 years to get to the whys. Trust me just cause we can look at it does not mean we understand it.

For example most people don't realize saying things like its genetic, has zero explanatory power, or its environmental....... other than baseline of knowing if its from within or without.

What is more we cannot even cure the flu.
The thing is we don't have a clue how the immune system works etc.
 

Black Rose

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What the public knows and what actual scientists know is very different.

The brain is a self-correcting regulatory system.

It controls what the body does.

It is not a rube goldberg machine.

It is self-sustaining.

Practically it models the environment and learns how to do things in it.

This is then understood by impulse control which has to do with socialization.

Human brains are taught to self-regulate, taught to know which impulses should be done and not done. And then those impulses become adult thinking processes.

In the most simple terms: adult brains know what happens when they do things, that they know if x happens then y happens.

So the adult brain must prioritize what is and is not important and that means it self-organizing the memory system to account for all variables involved in parallel.

The brain is utilizing multiple parts at the same time to understand what will happen if it does certain actions or if other entities do actions, the effects of those actions.

Now people may be developed in such a way as to act differently in different environments or have ideas that are false assumptions, people can be conditioned in many ways and with the underlying physiology of the system, but the principles are the same. People act to get results, emotionally and rationally to learn to avoid pain and seek pleasure, to understand something new, it is all impulse controls we have inside us. We may happen to get it right or wrong in results but nothing is in the brain that is overly complicated. The brain is a system that operates under cybernetic-mediated self-instruction. Anything to do with a miscalculation of how reality happens to be is to the degree we can change given the evidential requirements for that change. We have in us a map of reality that through our physiological experiences makes the structures of learning cause and effect what they are.
 

EndogenousRebel

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It is self-sustaining.

Practically it models the environment and learns how to do things in it.
That first sentence is completely true. The second sentence is tenuously true.

Yes the brain wants to maintain its homeostasis, but the way it achieves that that's very little to do with "modeling" the environment.

Yeah we have organs and structures that definitely contribute to a model of the world, but that doesn't really say much about the act of modeling the world if that makes sense.

At a certain point most of our brain doesn't evolve past being an 8-year-old.

An eight year old can be curious and think about the world. But it doesn't really say much about our imagination and probability models being done in the way a computer does.

You can have a general schema that you work with, but you're not really going to develop on it unless you consciously think about it.
 

Black Rose

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@EndogenousRebel

The frontal lobes project to the back parts of the brain. This is both for error correction and top-down control.

So if I were to model a thing in my head first I would see it and manipulate it to understand what it does in perception and then contemplate what it could do in another situation/circumstance. To do so I would need to make a relative comparison of it to what I have in memory bringing both to working memory. I would then make a decision that what I want to do is attainable and that it is in alignment with my motives.

In the meta sense, my ability to model myself is in the loop I create when looking at parts of myself I wish to know what they do and this self-referent process becomes more about seeing the self-correcting process itself.

A model of external things and the model of self both are memory systems that make predictions and adjust themselves to make more correct predictions from the degree from which the prediction errors are deviating from the stimuli.

The reduction of error by a backward loop creates the self and external models.

Imagination requires a working memory to reduce errors also,

we project those relative comparisons into the environment as to what can happen so models adapt in that way.

-by "model" I only refer to what is inside us to know reality as to our perceptions.

-probability is not really something I grasp yet as a perception.
 

EndogenousRebel

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I can talk all I want about the theory of billiards and the physics and all that jazz right.

1716366477533.jpeg


However, I'm not going to improve at the game unless I play it.

I suppose my question would be, how do you differentiate theoretical understandings from actual reaction-response experience? Do any of those constitute "modeling" for you?

For me, I am less interested in theoretical knowledge. I want to see application. These sorts of things are hard to communicate in depth. Surgeons do mandatory practice on cadavers. There just is no substitute to actually manipulating matter towards a desired state.

Anyone can mouth off any "theory" they want, and the human brain's capacity to string together any words together and create semantic meaning as long as it make sense, is immeasurable.

When top %99.9 of basketball players score a lot of distance shots, I wouldn't say they have a capacity to model the universe in a better way. So I don't understand why someone in the top 99.9 of language comprehension should get the same pass.

How can these ideas be tested? If they can't be tested, what good do they bring? What types of observations were made that supports these claims. Talk about projections, when you lay out your assumptions like that what are we even talking about besides the boundaries of your own understanding?
 

ZenRaiden

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Its cool what you say, but I am not sure what the substance here is.
You got lots of vague statements.

Maybe id be easier to talk about something more narrower.
 

ZenRaiden

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What the public knows and what actual scientists know is very different.
That is purpose of science.

The brain is a self-correcting regulatory system.

It controls what the body does.

It is not a rube goldberg machine.

It is self-sustaining.

Practically it models the environment and learns how to do things in it.

This is then understood by impulse control which has to do with socialization.

Human brains are taught to self-regulate, taught to know which impulses should be done and not done. And then those impulses become adult thinking processes.

In the most simple terms: adult brains know what happens when they do things, that they know if x happens then y happens.

So the adult brain must prioritize what is and is not important and that means it self-organizing the memory system to account for all variables involved in parallel.

The brain is utilizing multiple parts at the same time to understand what will happen if it does certain actions or if other entities do actions, the effects of those actions.

Now people may be developed in such a way as to act differently in different environments or have ideas that are false assumptions, people can be conditioned in many ways and with the underlying physiology of the system, but the principles are the same. People act to get results, emotionally and rationally to learn to avoid pain and seek pleasure, to understand something new, it is all impulse controls we have inside us. We may happen to get it right or wrong in results but nothing is in the brain that is overly complicated. The brain is a system that operates under cybernetic-mediated self-instruction. Anything to do with a miscalculation of how reality happens to be is to the degree we can change given the evidential requirements for that change. We have in us a map of reality that through our physiological experiences makes the structures of learning cause and effect what they are.
Just saying humans have a brain that can think would give us a clue.
All organism have some sort of self homeostasis.

The Chinese would call this balance.

See beneath all these fancy words I look for meaning.

What you say is true, but ultimately none of this brings us better to understand brains work.

For instance the word self correcting sounds interesting, until you realize that all living things all self correcting. Our brains being self correcting is obvious.
They need internal sense of self, because otherwise they would be useless.
We knew that already.
 

Black Rose

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For instance the word self correcting sounds interesting, until you realize that all living things all self correcting. Our brains being self correcting is obvious.
They need internal sense of self, because otherwise they would be useless.
We knew that already.

Human intelligence,

I study this stuff.

What is it that you want to know?
 

Black Rose

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How can these ideas be tested? If they can't be tested, what good do they bring? What types of observations were made that supports these claims. Talk about projections, when you lay out your assumptions like that what are we even talking about besides the boundaries of your own understanding?

Hypothesis testing is an algorithm that the brain does.

But you seem to reject a priori that we can understand the brain?

 

ZenRaiden

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Human intelligence,

I study this stuff.

What is it that you want to know?
Nothing specific, but lets address the main issue, why post this, on forum?
Are you venting, or just writing, or something specific to troubleshoot in life, looking for ideas, validation etc??

I got the impression you had some point to make?
Was trying to see if you are just rambling or there is something I missed?
 

EndogenousRebel

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Hypothesis testing is an algorithm that the brain does.

Is that supposed to suggest something?

But you seem to reject a priori that we can understand the brain?

just that we interpret lots of things in science, so that we can communicate and build theories, so that we can compete these theories in a Darwinist fashion.

A hypothesis is different from a theory, because the theory has actually been tested, as opposed to a hypothesis.

I am saying that you are acting as if your claims have a strong theoretical base. I don't think so. We understand very little about the brain, and we are still having debates about the use of all this fancy imaging software. It's just not something that we should let slide.

If you are building a theory sure. But I don't know how all the psycho-babble is gonna help test your theory at all.
 

Black Rose

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It is fine people think we know nothing about the brain.

Ignorant people will continue to be ignorant I suppose.
 

EndogenousRebel

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If we see electrical messages being sent from the frontal lobe to the occipital lobe, we can infer that the brain is trying to visualize something, not because we know the content of that message being electrically sent, but because we know the person is visualizing something.

So really, we aren't so sure about the brain. You say it's self-evident. I don't think so. We don't know a lot of underlying things. You saying vague abstractions doesn't elucidate it in the bit.

Where in the brain is the ego? Can you tell me that much?
 

Black Rose

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@EndogenousRebel

I cannot have patience with you if you have a bad attitude.

I understand you have skepticism but attacking me personally will not be acknowledged in the future.
 

Black Rose

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Analysis of NeuroPsycho Tensions​


According to Freud, the id, ego, and superego are parts of the unconscious and conscious mind that are in constant conflict. The id and superego are parts of the unconscious mind, while the ego is the conscious decision-making component of personality.
According to Sigmund Freud, the superego is the last component of personality to develop, and it’s present from birth. The superego’s role is to control the id’s impulses, especially those that society forbids. It also persuades the ego to pursue moralistic goals and strive for perfection.
The brain areas associated with the superego are thought to include the prefrontal cortex (PFC), orbitofrontal, ventromedial frontal, cingulate, amygdala, temporal lobe, and insular cortex. These areas are responsible for moral judgment, reasoning and risk calculation, like an ethical compass guiding decision-making.
According to medium.com, burnout can be seen as the exhaustion of the ego’s pursuit of an unattainable ideal. The ego ideal can cause the real ego to appear as a loser who is constantly self-reproaching, which can lead to psychic illnesses like depression and auto-aggressive behavior.
Jung’s theory of neurosis is based on the idea that the psyche is self-regulating and consists of tensions between opposing attitudes of the ego and the unconscious. He believed that neurosis is an attempt by the psyche to restore balance, and that it is an opportunity to become aware of one’s limitations and strengths.
The orbitofrontal cortex (OFC) is a frontal area that helps inhibit neural activity associated with unwanted, uncomfortable, or irrelevant information, sensations, or actions. This includes response inhibition, which is one of the first and most influential functions of prefrontal areas. The OFC also participates in the executive control of behavioral expression and information processing.
 

Black Rose

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The ego is that part of a person trained from birth how to interact with the world.

It is taught what to do and what not to do.

Eventually, we become conditioned by enough experiences to know the consequences of future actions because of how the frontal lobes are set up.

qit8mdM.jpg
 

EndogenousRebel

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You get defensive, I imagine because you yourself don't have confidence in your ideas. I'm just commenting on my perspective. If that's too radical for you, then I guess my contributions to the discussion are moot to YOU. But YOU are not the only person on this website.

Point I'm making, is that if we have the map of activity in the brain, say 12 hours in a day, and you are going about your daily business all while imaging technology captures your brain activity, and you give that to any expert, they would have trouble predicting the stimuli that the brain is seeing. They may interpret your mental state completely wrong.

We have a bunch of really controlled experiments that remove all variables, noise for example, is a big problem in neuroimaging. We cannot just strap electrodes to your brain non-invasively.

I can see the reward centers light up in someone watching a movie, vs watching elevator footage for 2 hours.

We need something to compare. You are trying to shoot down comparisons for reasons I cannot discern.
 

ZenRaiden

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Why are you responding at all?
I think the question was clearly aimed what is the point of posting.
I don't think anyone else will respond then.
I am not here to do science, but Id like to entertain your ideas, but not sure how?

Claim we don't know much is not personal attack at you, its a statement I made to point to obvious pattern in science.

Psychology is good example, where we apply science, but overturn of knowledge in psychology is big.

As I said before that is good news for anyone who wants to make a headway in this field, including AI.

If someone wants to make headway in AI, they stand a great chance nowdays, and years to come.

It will be near impossible for plebs like us outside of this field to make headway in say 20 years, because your average joe doing AI research will be megamind with specialized education strapped to his frontal lobes.

My main point though would be that I would not dig my heels in to anything until its verified.

That leaves your mind flexible to accept that there is lots of things that will change.

Unless you can do direct research.

In that case the data collected would have value.

For example I listen to geopolitical experts.

Lets say they are correct at least half the time.

I can follow patterns in the world and control for when they are wrong and when they are correct.

I can see some snippet of reality.

I can also see that edging towards something tangible in AI research would have great value, as it would provide great deal of data.

My point being if you want to be Galileo you got to drop the ball from the tower and see.
 

Black Rose

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Point I'm making, is that if we have the map of activity in the brain, say 12 hours in a day, and you are going about your daily business all while imaging technology captures your brain activity, and you give that to any expert, they would have trouble predicting the stimuli that the brain is seeing. They may interpret your mental state completely wrong.

That is completely different from what I was saying.

You do not see the brain as a dynamic system that learns things.

Learning is known as how it works and how the brain does it.

You do not understand that principles behind the brain exist.

It is as if like you need to know where every rock is in the earth before you except that gravity exists.

So what is your point, I already said you reject apriori that brains can be understood in principle so what are your main faults with what I am saying in everything I said so far?
 

EndogenousRebel

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It is as if like you need to know where every rock is in the earth before you except that gravity exists.

I'm not even saying what you are writing doesn't have any value.

I would say that we only understand like 20% of what the brain does, and most of that is locked behind quantum physics understanding. The understanding I get from you. is that you think the brain is like a network of computers.

Since you think I understand so little, I have a question for the expert: If we were to take the neocortex of a full grown adult, and just transfer it to an adolescent child, (with pinnacle precision) how many laws did you just break?
 

ZenRaiden

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You get defensive, I imagine because you yourself don't have confidence in your ideas. I'm just commenting on my perspective. If that's too radical for you, then I guess my contributions to the discussion are moot to YOU. But YOU are not the only person on this website.
To be fair a scientist who is assured of his theories is not a scientist, its those science minds that are insecure about the truth that obsessively seek it. Hence endless curiosity, but also endless search for the capital T truth.
 

EndogenousRebel

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You get defensive, I imagine because you yourself don't have confidence in your ideas. I'm just commenting on my perspective. If that's too radical for you, then I guess my contributions to the discussion are moot to YOU. But YOU are not the only person on this website.
To be fair a scientist who is assured of his theories is not a scientist, its those science minds that are insecure about the truth that obsessively seek it. Hence endless curiosity, but also endless search for the capital T truth.
At a certain point, you see the line between asserting a point that cannot be challenged easily, and a point that can be very easily challenged.

This is more fitting taught to philosophers, but then again, alchemy practiced in ancient times probably created the first scientists, and it was heavily tied to spiritual sentiments.
 

Black Rose

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I'm not even saying what you are writing doesn't have any value.

I would say that we only understand like 20% of what the brain does, and most of that is locked behind quantum physics understanding. The understanding I get from you. is that you think the brain is like a network of computers.

The brain is not a Von Neuman computer system.

But it is a network.

If that network fails to regulate in the way it is supposed to, it falls apart.

So the most basic principle is that it has a feedback system.

The second is that it can change and adapt to the environment.

The structure of the brain as per its genetic growth pattern will be what is required for both.

In quantum terms I do not know what that is doing, I know it is keeping the system stable. It is not to my knowledge making human intelligence different from orangutang intelligence.

In my view intelligence can be simulated, it is a growth pattern. I would need to see math that says it can't because of quantum woo but overall to me quantum stuff is just another feedback process.

Since you think we understand so much, I have a question for the expert: If we were to take the neocortex of a full grown adult, and just transfer it to an adolescent child, (with pinnacle precision) how many laws did you just break?

I do not understand what science you refer to but if any laws were broken then it did not happen.
 

Black Rose

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psychobabble is not a word I would use if I was trying to understand another person's perspective.

Everything person x says is bullshit so I am trolling them because I am a troll?
 

EndogenousRebel

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I'm not even saying what you are writing doesn't have any value.

I would say that we only understand like 20% of what the brain does, and most of that is locked behind quantum physics understanding. The understanding I get from you. is that you think the brain is like a network of computers.

The brain is not a Von Neuman computer system.

But it is a network.

If that network fails to regulate in the way it is supposed to, it falls apart.

So the most basic principle is that it has a feedback system.

The second is that it can change and adapt to the environment.

The structure of the brain as per its genetic growth pattern will be what is required for both.

In quantum terms I do not know what that is doing, I know it is keeping the system stable. It is not to my knowledge making human intelligence different from orangutang intelligence.

In my view intelligence can be simulated, it is a growth pattern. I would need to see math that says it can't because of quantum woo but overall to me quantum stuff is just another feedback process.

Since you think we understand so much, I have a question for the expert: If we were to take the neocortex of a full grown adult, and just transfer it to an adolescent child, (with pinnacle precision) how many laws did you just break?

I do not understand what science you refer to but if any laws were broken then it did not happen.
The human body as a whole is an engineering masterpiece.

Most of the operations we do on each other can happen because of how we are built and how much our body responds to the environment and external microbes.

To the extent that our own ingenuity has helped us, we have done some pretty amazing things, but these are elaborate treatments, that take away from the supply of skilled professionals.

We've cured blindness. We just haven't built the scaffolding for blind-lessness in society.

What good are the things that you are talking about compared to other disucssions that may bear fruit?
 

EndogenousRebel

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psychobabble is not a word I would use if I was trying to understand another person's perspective.

Everything person x says is bullshit so I am trolling them because I am a troll?
Directly cutting through 100 interpretations
 

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EndogenousRebel

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It's just that we aren't sure that blood flow and electrical activity really are the whole picture, which is where many of our assumptions come from.

The chemistry of the brain, is a different matter. It's like a Z axis on an x-y graph.

Blood flow, really is a metabolism thing, we can infer that these nuerons are more active/at higher valences because they are probably the most utilized in that moment, hence the blood flow.

Brainwaves can indicate different mental states, to an extent.

The big missing piece is what does this hormone, and the synaptic firing facilitated by salt and electron shuffling and on and on.

Every time we discover more about how we operate, it's really humbling because you see how we grow and reproduce, and you realize that we are just meat packages of DNA delivering DNA from one place to another, and that our vessels are there to facilitate that information transfer.

You don't engage with what I'm saying, but if I engage with what your saying I'm a villain, and you undermine yourself by continuing to be petulant.

Forgive me if my writing has come off as uncivil, you don't know whats going on in my life, and I don't know whats going on in yours. Well, I might if you were to rant about it more. I'm trying to understand you, you are just not making it easy to understand you.
 

Black Rose

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If the brain is not a feedback system.

Why engage in further conversation?

I mean what use is my knowledge and understanding to you?
 

EndogenousRebel

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If the brain is not a feedback system.
Yes. The body itself asserts it's "intelligence" over the brain. You can consciously think "I will stop breathing oxygen" and hold your breath. Yet your body continues as it goes into hypoxia, your body compels you to breath.

We have to do crafty breathing techniques to literally fool our body into thinking if we want to hold our breath for insane amount of time, and every movement that produces C02, that time goes drastically down.

From the day you are born you have a beating heart, that you cannot to stop, until old age perhaps. Oof.

It's a feedback loop engrained in the prominence of reality. We can opinionate all we want, but things are a certain way, and you are just mad that I am trying to make you have higher standards.
 

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I thought we could understand the brain as a feedback loop system.

I was not saying this loop could magically do anything by willpower alone.

If you decide that loops do not matter I guess you can call that a higher standard.

But then I would say that understanding brains depends on them.

"apriori the brain cannot be understood": seems misappropriate to me
 

EndogenousRebel

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I have not made a statement about if we can understand, the question is to what extent.

It just seems like an over simplification to call it all a "feedback" loop. Sure consciously there is a phonological (semantic) loop or whatever.

I would say that very many parts of the brain are template-d in genes. They all follow generally the same rules.

There are multiple states the brain can be in. We call this a mental/brain state.

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Thus, most people are going share a particular brain state.

Maybe if you are "nuero divergent" you are further out in the distirbution. Bipolar-disorder for example is in 1% of the population, and so is sociopathy and various other psychological phenomena.

Communicating that there is a "feedback loop" to me doesn't really say anything obvious about what people are experiencing, besides maybe that people can learn things from just single exposure to stimuli.

Human brain is wired for social activity and we can focus on the least minute social detail until the day we die. A problem many other mammals don't have.

It's at the margins and fringe where most of the insight comes from. We can scan and see differences in brain structure for a "normal" person and someone with OCD. And then we assume things, and we test those assumptions.

So if we can't test assumptions, and can't even set up imaginary conditions to test the assumptions, then it might as well be something we don't talk about.

I feel the same way about the existence of OOO god. If you engage in a talk with such a person, it's obvious that they are going to propose arguments based on belief/faith, which I mean, good for them, but I'm never going to adjust someones point of view on something that they don't want challenged.
 
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