Nice to see this place is still going

[kora]

And to see so many ANCIENT members still active on it. I'll be popping in every now and again to chat + do some light light moderation. I think a good minimal rule is basically to not be hyper aggressive and insult everyone. I don't want this place to look like /pol.

I think the regulars here remember this place, like me, as a good space for openly discussing ideas and they deserve a space that permits that. No matter what our differences may be or what we think of MBTI, people who identify with the description of the INTP type and come to this forum likely hold values of intellectual curiosity, rationality, open-mindedness (and introversion ofc or they wouldn't be socializing so much online in the first place )

As a reminder, here are ye olde guidelines and ye olde general spirit that this forum was founded with.

General Rules

INTP Forum General Rules of Conduct This is not a democracy. Whilst members' views are sought and welcomed, they do not decide the administration of the forum. 01/ Don't be a nuisance. 02/ No Trolls. No Flaming. No attacks on personalities or groups. No Spam. No Porn links. 03/...

www.intpforum.com

See you around

 

[ZenRaiden]

See you around

Nice to see you.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Thanks Kora!

 

[scorpiomover]

Hope to see you post some interesting posts.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I don't remember your old ID.

Have you gotten your degree in philosophy? I remember you saying that you were doing a major in some philosophical field.

 

[Puffy]

I don't remember your old ID.

Have you gotten your degree in philosophy? I remember you saying that you were doing a major in some philosophical field.

She’s the member formerly known as higs, I believe.

 

[Puffy]

X

 

[onesteptwostep]

I don't remember your old ID.

Have you gotten your degree in philosophy? I remember you saying that you were doing a major in some philosophical field.

She’s the member formerly known as higs, I believe.

Ah yup yup, you're right.

 

[kora]

I don't remember your old ID.

Have you gotten your degree in philosophy? I remember you saying that you were doing a major in some philosophical field.

Puffy is on the ball.

Yes I got it! I teach it now at a higher level, though not full time. I'm considering making it more regular as I really enjoy it. What are you up to ?

 

[onesteptwostep]

I don't remember your old ID.

Have you gotten your degree in philosophy? I remember you saying that you were doing a major in some philosophical field.

Puffy is on the ball.

Yes I got it! I teach it now at a higher level, though not full time. I'm considering making it more regular as I really enjoy it. What are you up to ?

I'm pursuing something in high ed.

What did you learn from doing a degree in philosophy? I'm sure as you were with professors who had personal opinions on philosophers themselves, you've developed something for yourself as well.

 

[kora]

It sounds unexciting but mostly I would say I've learned to better distinguish concepts and clarify things. Formalizing arguments as well.

I've read a lot of philosophers and I like many but (for me) it's uninspiring philosophical discussions that leads based on the merit of X or Y authors.

Professors I had usually refrained from giving a personal opinion in the sense of "i think Descartes was right" they list arguments and counter arguments, exhaust all possible answers etc. Then analyse the variety of answers and discussions that various authors have had throughout history.

What's more important is having a question. Then it can be useful to turn to authors who spoke about the question, concept, topic or thing that is interesting at that time

 

[onesteptwostep]

It sounds unexciting but mostly I would say I've learned to better distinguish concepts and clarify things. Formalizing arguments as well.

I've read a lot of philosophers and I like many but (for me) it's uninspiring philosophical discussions that leads based on the merit of X or Y authors.

Professors I had usually refrained from giving a personal opinion in the sense of "i think Descartes was right" they list arguments and counter arguments, exhaust all possible answers etc. Then analyse the variety of answers and discussions that various authors have had throughout history.

What's more important is having a question. Then it can be useful to turn to authors who spoke about the question, concept, topic or thing that is interesting at that time

Okay cool. Yeah a lot of philosophy are footnotes to other philosophers and whether those inquiries hold up to the original statement or idea the philosopher in question was making. I think some of those questions are interesting too though, because those who question usually come from a specific worry or some kind of agenda. It's interesting to see how questions intersect with logic and the regining culture.

I wanted to ask because you were (most likely?) raised in France and had your education regarding philosophy there, so I wondered whether the education is different from the American model. France is a thoroughly secular society given its history so I wondered what kinds of issues were prevalent there, and how they tackle those issues or questions at the philosophical level.

 

[kora]

It sounds unexciting but mostly I would say I've learned to better distinguish concepts and clarify things. Formalizing arguments as well.

I've read a lot of philosophers and I like many but (for me) it's uninspiring philosophical discussions that leads based on the merit of X or Y authors.

Professors I had usually refrained from giving a personal opinion in the sense of "i think Descartes was right" they list arguments and counter arguments, exhaust all possible answers etc. Then analyse the variety of answers and discussions that various authors have had throughout history.

What's more important is having a question. Then it can be useful to turn to authors who spoke about the question, concept, topic or thing that is interesting at that time

Okay cool. Yeah a lot of philosophy are footnotes to other philosophers and whether those inquiries hold up to the original statement or idea the philosopher in question was making. I think some of those questions are interesting too though, because those who question usually come from a specific worry or some kind of agenda. It's interesting to see how questions intersect with logic and the regining culture.

I wanted to ask because you were (most likely?) raised in France and had your education regarding philosophy there, so I wondered whether the education is different from the American model. France is a thoroughly secular society given its history so I wondered what kinds of issues were prevalent there, and how they tackle those issues or questions at the philosophical level.

Oh I see. Well I imagine there would have been a bit more focus on French language philosophers I suppose. My university was really nice and in fact we did the whole history of Western philosophy starting in antiquity up until the modern day, and you could take courses in all sorts of subjects. I did a bit of Indian philosophy outside of the Western stuff for example.

Later on I was personally most interested in Ethics and political philosophy and in particular contemporary debates. I enjoyed contemporary meta-ethical debates like "what do we mean when we say something is "good" or "bad"? and what are moral propositions. I also liked learning about the classical ethical systems and their arguments and counter-arguments. I also enjoyed philosophy of mind in general and in particular contemporary questions about consciousness (phenomenal consciousness). In political philosophy I liked arguing about what values society should be based on, what makes a governement legitimate in exercising authority, how democracy should be structured, fundamental rights, liberalism and authoritarianism, economics etc.

It really was a lot of fun, I loved it

 

[Black Rose]

I also enjoyed philosophy of mind in general and in particular contemporary questions about consciousness (phenomenal consciousness).

In my experience, people generally separate mind from body when talking about philosophy, but I think the term "phenomenology" is the combination of them: the embodied mind?

 

[kora]

I also enjoyed philosophy of mind in general and in particular contemporary questions about consciousness (phenomenal consciousness).

In my experience, people generally separate mind from body when talking about philosophy, but I think the term "phenomenology" is the combination of them: the embodied mind?

Well that's kind of the main question actually, is it separate? if not, why does it seem to us that it might be? This kind of thing.

Phenomenology is related, it is the attempt to describe the structure of subjective experience

Merleau Ponty's phenomenology focuses quite specifically on the embodied mind

 

[dr froyd]

isn't the squid an example of why mind and body are connected, because its brain is in its legs or some shiet?

 

[kora]

isn't the squid an example of why mind and body are connected, because its brain is in its legs or some shiet?

Squid brains and likely their minds are definitely distributed in their body a way that ours are not.

When people talk about separation of mind and body they're usually talking about an intuition that it seems as if the mental and physical are different (Dualism).

Like Descartes started imagining what it would be like getting up in the morning and looking at himself in the mirror but his body wouldn't be there he would just be a pure consciousness looking at nothing. Actually I don't know if he imagined that specifically, but he definitely started arguing mind and body were different substances. And he started wondering where the mind was lodged in the brain (he postulated it might be in the pineal gland). This means the brain for him was not the mind . I don't know where the mind would be in a squid.

Descartes was a super smart dude. He invented the coordinate graph and analytic geometry for example. Hurrah for the X and Y axis we all love it. Dualism however is not fashionable at all.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I think consciousness for a squid and the one for human is largely impossible to cross-undertand. Cognition limitations are much more higher for humans. We have Hegel, what do squids have, being fictional in Moby Dick? xd

Anyway yeah Descartes was the first person with authority after the Reformation who really thought through things. He certainly did set up the stage for Kant in the next century.

@kora how do you feel about the increasing Muslim population in your country? I heard there's been a lot of tension over the conflict in the Middle East over it on the news. It makes me wonder if the realm of French philosophy (pedagogy of philosophy in France) might be affected with the influx of Muslim or Arab students. Kind of a deep question but yeah.

 

[Black Rose]

I think consciousness for a squid and the one for human is largely impossible to cross-undertand. Cognition limitations are much more higher for humans.

I sometimes feel the neurons in my abdomen. I would think that being a squid would be like having multiple stomach ganglions in the limbs.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I think consciousness for a squid and the one for human is largely impossible to cross-undertand. Cognition limitations are much more higher for humans.

I sometimes feel the neurons in my abdomen. I would think that being a squid would be like having multiple stomach ganglions in the limbs.

That would be just called bowel movement and you being too hypersensitive to your physiological changes.

 

[kora]

I think consciousness for a squid and the one for human is largely impossible to cross-undertand. Cognition limitations are much more higher for humans.

I sometimes feel the neurons in my abdomen. I would think that being a squid would be like having multiple stomach ganglions in the limbs.

Yes we also have distributed brains so they say I really like thinking about squids and what their subjective experience must be like, I often read about them. I would really like to see one too, I never have.

@kora how do you feel about the increasing Muslim population in your country? I heard there's been a lot of tension over the conflict in the Middle East over it on the news. It makes me wonder if the realm of French philosophy (pedagogy of philosophy in France) might be affected with the influx of Muslim or Arab students. Kind of a deep question but yeah.

I don't understand, in what way would philosophy be affected ?

I feel fine about it + if it's increasing I haven't actually noticed, I have friends of Moroccan or Algerian origin, second generation immigrants, they are culturally just the same as any french person, they just have different sounding names and go on holiday to see their extended families in the summer.

I would say there's been tension regarding Palestine in general in western countries. In the US it seems there has been even more than here.

 

[Black Rose]

I think consciousness for a squid and the one for human is largely impossible to cross-undertand. Cognition limitations are much more higher for humans.

I sometimes feel the neurons in my abdomen. I would think that being a squid would be like having multiple stomach ganglions in the limbs.

That would be just called bowel movement and you being too hypersensitive to your physiological changes.

Navel Gazing

 

[kora]

philosophy is just dusty dweebs talking to each other in a room about modal logic, either you're a dusty dweeb and you're welcome to join in the conversation or you're off to the mosque to pray or you can do both it doesn't really matter

 

[Old Things]

@kora,

I have a philosophy question. It intersects with both theories of mind and politically. How would you say left vs right political philosophy maps onto theories of mind like LFW vs Compatibilism?

Also, I know this might be something you might not want to do, but I've been somewhat preoccupied with theories of free will. I developed a theory I would like you to take a look at if you can spare the time. The essential gist is that free will is grounded in our perception of the truth. The closer to the truth we are the freer we are. Here's a link where I give a rendition of this theory. Would you mind taking a look?

My Theory of Free Will

Here I would like to outline my thoughts on Free Will and the capacity that we have it. There will be several steps to this, but I hope it is clear at the end of this that you [all] know where I stand on this issue. First, I should break up the human psychology so that we know what is going on...

www.intpforum.com

 

[fractalwalrus]

philosophy is just dusty dweebs talking to each other in a room about modal logic, either you're a dusty dweeb and you're welcome to join in the conversation or you're off to the mosque to pray or you can do both it doesn't really matter

Well said

 

[kora]

Well said

Why thank you fractalwalrus