MBTI in the Socionics Framework

[fluffy]

The thing about socionics is that they have either two conflicting judgment functions or two conflicting perception functions within the conscious or unconscious blocks.

Example Ti with Fi in the conscious for xNTP

I believe MBTI got this correct that the functions need to be unconflicted.

He is my model.

Conscious

Ego what one is best at
Persona what on presents

Shadow

Anima what is wanted
Id what one imposes

Example

INTJ

Ni Te good at projecting future experience
Se Fi presents awareness of one's feelings
Ti Ne wants rational possibilities
Fe Si imposes cooperation through embodiment

Notice the alterations between perception and judgement | introversion and extraversion

Let's do this with INTP

Ti Ne good at rational possibilities
Fe Si presents cooperative embodiment
Ni Te wants future experience
Se Fi imposes awareness of their feelings

This is what I worked on last night. This is a way of characterizing each type by their motivations.

How about an extrovert

ESFP

Se Fi very aware and reactive emotionally to this
Ni Te presents as future oriented by experience
Fe Si wants cooperativeness by embodiment
Ti Ne imposes rational possibilities

-

The Shadow functions are there as the unconscious divers of a person. They are not negative but underdeveloped and least aware of. In the id it has the most unreasonableness as the person must, under stress, make them exist in reality. The Anima Animus has the unconscious desire to be realized and when not goes deeper into the id.

 

[fractalwalrus]

The thing about socionics is that they have either two conflicting judgment functions or two conflicting perception functions within the conscious or unconscious blocks.

How do you see them as conflicting?

Also, in Socionics, functions are either valued or unvalued, strong or weak.
Socionics gets whacky and incorporated Freudian concepts of Id, Ego, and Superego in as well. The primary distinguishing factor of Socionics from MBTI was in predicting inter-personal relations, though MBTI has come a bit further in its later iterations in this regard.

 

[fluffy]

The thing about socionics is that they have either two conflicting judgment functions or two conflicting perception functions within the conscious or unconscious blocks.

How do you see them as conflicting?

Also, in Socionics, functions are either valued or unvalued, strong or weak.
Socionics gets whacky and incorporated Freudian concepts of Id, Ego, and Superego in as well. The primary distinguishing factor of Socionics from MBTI was in predicting inter-personal relations, though MBTI has come a bit further in its later iterations in this regard.

Ti Ne Fi Se

These are conscious in the Socionics Framework.

Yet Ti conflicts with Fi and Ne with Se

They cannot be activated at the same time.

So the type has conflictions in the conscious.

There would be conflicts in the unconscious as well.

I simply rearranged the e and i to get a balance.

 

[fluffy]

The value of functions doesn't seem right given conscious and unconscious must exist.

 

[fractalwalrus]

The thing about socionics is that they have either two conflicting judgment functions or two conflicting perception functions within the conscious or unconscious blocks.

How do you see them as conflicting?

Also, in Socionics, functions are either valued or unvalued, strong or weak.
Socionics gets whacky and incorporated Freudian concepts of Id, Ego, and Superego in as well. The primary distinguishing factor of Socionics from MBTI was in predicting inter-personal relations, though MBTI has come a bit further in its later iterations in this regard.

Ti Ne Fi Se

These are conscious in the Socionics Framework.

Yet Ti conflicts with Fi and Ne with Se

They cannot be activated at the same time.

So the type has conflictions in the conscious.

There would be conflicts in the unconscious as well.

I simply rearranged the e and i to get a balance.

Here is how I see it when it comes down to thinking vs feeling. If the amygdala is activated, it has been known directly to interfere with the actions of the prefrontal cortex. Feeling does make one act less "rationally." They cannot be activated at the same time. Try thinking rationally when you are emotional.

 

[fractalwalrus]

The value of functions doesn't seem right given conscious and unconscious must exist.

Valued and strong or valued and weak are conscious, if I remember right

 

[fluffy]

The value of functions doesn't seem right given conscious and unconscious must exist.

Valued and strong or valued and weak are conscious, if I remember right

That would mean all eight functions are conscious.

Ti Te Fi Fe Si Se Ni Ne

This would mean we have more that 16 ways to rearranged them if they are valued differently. The order would have no structure at all. You could value all the extraverted functions above the introverted ones and that would be just as valid.

 

[fractalwalrus]

That would mean all eight functions are conscious.

No, unvalued and strong, unvalued and weak would not be conscious. For the INTP (INTj or LII socionics), this would mean Te, Ni, Fi, and Se are unconscious.

 

[fluffy]

That would mean all eight functions are conscious.

No, unvalued and strong, unvalued and weak would not be conscious. For the INTP (INTj or LII socionics), this would mean Te, Ni, Fi, and Se are unconscious.

So that makes the persona and ego conscious? That's what I understand.

Then the ego must for INTP have Ti Ne
And the persona must have Si and Fe

The rest are unconscious?

 

[fractalwalrus]

That would mean all eight functions are conscious.

No, unvalued and strong, unvalued and weak would not be conscious. For the INTP (INTj or LII socionics), this would mean Te, Ni, Fi, and Se are unconscious.

So that makes the persona and ego conscious? That's what I understand.

Then the ego must for into have Ti Ne
And the persona must have Si and Fe

The rest are unconscious?

source: https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/Function_dichotomies
Subdued = weak; vital = unconscious

 

[fluffy]

That would mean all eight functions are conscious.

No, unvalued and strong, unvalued and weak would not be conscious. For the INTP (INTj or LII socionics), this would mean Te, Ni, Fi, and Se are unconscious.

So that makes the persona and ego conscious? That's what I understand.

Then the ego must for into have Ti Ne
And the persona must have Si and Fe

The rest are unconscious?

View attachment 8479

source: https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/Function_dichotomies
Subdued = weak; vital = unconscious

I was attempting to combine the frameworks of MBTI and Socionics. Does my description of INTJ and INTP make sense with the criteria I gave of id and anima as unconscious?

 

[fractalwalrus]

That would mean all eight functions are conscious.

No, unvalued and strong, unvalued and weak would not be conscious. For the INTP (INTj or LII socionics), this would mean Te, Ni, Fi, and Se are unconscious.

So that makes the persona and ego conscious? That's what I understand.

Then the ego must for into have Ti Ne
And the persona must have Si and Fe

The rest are unconscious?

View attachment 8479

source: https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/Function_dichotomies
Subdued = weak; vital = unconscious

I was attempting to combine the frameworks of MBTI and Socionics. Does my description of INTJ and INTP make sense with the criteria I gave of id and anima as unconscious?

Well, Socionics is more true the the source material (Jung) in its depiction of the cognitive functions. As for your framework, it would be problematic to say that any given processes that are conflicting at any given time could be running simultaneously. I am uncertain where you came across the information that the functions that conflict would be used simulataneously.