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Liquid lunch

Dr. Freeman

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I was looking at my workload today and I realized what my largest avoidable time-suck was. Lunch takes far too long, and today I just didn't have time for it, so I bought a smoothie and went on my way.

Are there any (ideally cheap, I am a college student after all) drinks that would contain the requisite nutrients that can be purchased in bulk? I know there are types that focus primarily on a single thing you need, like protein, but is there a "total" drink I use to replace lunch and/or dinner?
 

Cognisant

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There's dieting ones which I suppose you could supplement if you're concerned about losing weight.
 

Dr. Freeman

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There's dieting ones which I suppose you could supplement if you're concerned about losing weight.

I am 6 feet tall and weigh 120 lbs. I need to gain a significant amount of weight to be considered healthy.

Thank you for the suggestion, though.
 

Cognisant

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Meat, dairy and eggs, supplemented with fish, more meat and nuts.

That's how you bulk up.
Whether it's fat or muscle depends on how much you exercise, and when exercising use weights that are about 2/3 of your maximum strength, don't bother counting just do it until you ache, an ache that lasts for 20sec or so is good because it means you're stretching the muscle, encouraging it to grow and bulk up, but you don't want a sting because that means you're starting to tear and that takes up time healing, your body knows the difference, listen to it.
 

Dr. Freeman

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If I didn't, I fear
my stay in college would
be rather short.
 

Hawkeye

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Soup.
 

Dr. Freeman

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Not eating for extended Periods of time = starvation
 

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The most promising options emerging from the crowd-sourcing following this comic were Monkey Crunch (monkey food that "is nutritionally balanced to ensure primates are receiving all of the necessary nutritional components," but it's not liquid) and, closer to what you asked for, Jevity (the stuff in feeding tubes, marketed with the enticing slogan "May be used for oral feeding of patients with altered taste perception.").

Combining diet drinks with a gainer might be a more realistic alternative, if Hawkeye's insightful comment isn't to your liking.
 

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Liquid lunches will make you ill if you do them with any regularity. The lack of fibre will just start messing with your digestive system in unpleasant ways.

The closest thing to a wonderfood you can get is a bag of mixed fruit and nuts, it's pretty much just as convenient as a drink, you can eat as you work. Stick it in your pocket and it's likely no one else would even notice.

You can also try granola bar type things, but they're always a bit too small for a full lunch. Try one of them and a small shake on top.
 

PhoenixRising

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What about nutritional drinks for old people? They have all the protein, vitamins and fiber you need. They also help you gain weight. The ones I've tasted are kinda nasty. I don't know if there's a brand that actually tastes good.
 

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Is there one that comes in an IV so I can let my digestive tract atrophy into nothingness?
 

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Your body get used to your eating habits. Also, when you have tried being starved for some periods, the feeling of hunger get less pronounced, it fades into the background.

Well, I don't usually get hungry during work because I'm used to go several hours without food. I drink coffee or tea, though. It wont affect your concentration or anything either. After all, humans did have to survive in times with less food, they adapted.
 

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Is there one that comes in an IV so I can let my digestive tract atrophy into nothingness?

Honestly I just want an IV for water. Just when I sleep. No big deal. Easy.
It's impossible to stay properly hydrated in the desert, unless your willing to be chugging water all damn day.
 

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Meat, dairy and eggs are the worst things you can eat health wise. Nuts are healthy in moderation.

If you don't want to eat lunch, then don't. Your body will adjust and be happy with a slightly lower caloric intake, or just eat more in the other meals. Actually ideally you would eat breakfast and lunch, or lunch and dinner, or just one meal a day. We eat too much and too frequently. The body repairs itself while in the catabolic (digesting) state, not the anabolic (eating) stage. Eating food takes too much time and energy for our body to be able to do necessary maintenance.

I eat two meals per day (B & L), don't eat any dinner and appreciate the extra free time. I also sleep better without a meal on board. I've also done one meal per day but that's a little harder to get enough calories in.
 

PhoenixRising

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Meat, dairy and eggs are the worst things you can eat health wise. Nuts are healthy in moderation.

If you don't want to eat lunch, then don't. Your body will adjust and be happy with a slightly lower caloric intake, or just eat more in the other meals. Actually ideally you would eat breakfast and lunch, or lunch and dinner, or just one meal a day. We eat too much and too frequently. The body repairs itself while in the catabolic (digesting) state, not the anabolic (eating) stage. Eating food takes too much time and energy for our body to be able to do necessary maintenance.

I eat two meals per day (B & L), don't eat any dinner and appreciate the extra free time. I also sleep better without a meal on board. I've also done one meal per day but that's a little harder to get enough calories in.
Good point you've brought up here. I actually use a catabolic/fasting state to lengthen my life span. By all rights, I should have been dead years ago, but I'm still alive and able to function. In cases of severe metabolic disorders, eating too much can in fact lead to death.
 

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Good point you've brought up here. I actually use a catabolic/fasting state to lengthen my life span. By all rights, I should have been dead years ago, but I'm still alive and able to function. In cases of severe metabolic disorders, eating too much can in fact lead to death.

Seriously? Not a lot of people seem to know about this, I usually get flack for pointing out the value of eating infrequently.

Do you have a special health condition that especially benefits from eating infrequently?
 

Dr. Freeman

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Liquid lunches will make you ill if you do them with any regularity. The lack of fibre will just start messing with your digestive system in unpleasant ways.

The closest thing to a wonderfood you can get is a bag of mixed fruit and nuts, it's pretty much just as convenient as a drink, you can eat as you work. Stick it in your pocket and it's likely no one else would even notice.

You can also try granola bar type things, but they're always a bit too small for a full lunch. Try one of them and a small shake on top.

I would like a substitute for lunch, but I have no intention of switching to an entirely liquid diet. The main reason I would want to do this is convenience. Having an extra hour in the middle of the day would be amazing. I guess I could have high fiber fruit to supplement the liquid.

Edit: I will look into the intermittent fasting, though. Eating every other day is still useful time wise. (with benefits)
 

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I'm quite interested in intermittent fasting. The method which seems a good starting point is one where two to three days a week you restrict your diet to a single 600 calorie meal. However I'm fairly active at the moment and this is incredibly hard to achieve, I have done it unintentionally in the past merely due to sloth, but currently travelling to and from work gives me irresistible cravings.


I would like a substitute for lunch, but I have no intention of switching to an entirely liquid diet. The main reason I would want to do this is convenience. Having an extra hour in the middle of the day would be amazing. I guess I could have high fiber fruit to supplement the liquid.

Edit: I will look into the intermittent fasting, though. Eating every other day is still useful time wise. (with benefits)
Even if you're still eating normally in the evenings it can have an effect.
 

Architect

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There is a lot of attention being put to caloric restriction in humans, the results are trickling in. In humans it appears to be tied to the IGF-1 pathway, but we are still in the early stages. Very recent research (this year) is showing that in humans it's not as much the quantity of calories but the type (epidemiological studies have shown this result since a few decades ago). In other words, you can lengthen lifespan by reducing caloric content, or by eating nominal calories but eating low on the food chain (leafy greens, grains, fruits etc) has an equivalent effect. These are all primate studies. This explains the differences we've seen in caloric restricted studies, some of the primates were fed 'food pellets' (mostly sucrose with trace elements) and others were fed grains and vegetables.

To the best of our knowledge ... eat the minimum calories you need to maintain target weight (approximately 1800 calories for me). Get those calories in the form of vegetables and fruits (nuts, seeds, greens, beans, mushrooms, fruit, etc). For some extra polish, keep it down to one or two meals per day.

Anyhow this is what I do and it works wonders.
 

Dr. Freeman

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I'm quite interested in intermittent fasting. The method which seems a good starting point is one where two to three days a week you restrict your diet to a single 600 calorie meal. However I'm fairly active at the moment and this is incredibly hard to achieve, I have done it unintentionally in the past merely due to sloth, but currently travelling to and from work gives me irresistible cravings.



Even if you're still eating normally in the evenings it can have an effect.


My only real issue (I, for whatever reason, am very insensitive to hunger. I don't really notice I am hungry until I start to eat. I actually feel quite full most of the day.)
is that when I go without food for any amount of time, I feel extreme mental lethargy. I am worried about the effects that will have on my schooling.
 

Hawkeye

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My only real issue (I, for whatever reason, am very insensitive to hunger. I don't really notice I am hungry until I start to eat. I actually feel quite full most of the day.)
is that when I go without food for any amount of time, I feel extreme mental lethargy. I am worried about the effects that will have on my schooling.

Well, there is no doubt that your body will need time to adjust. You will feel a bit "derpy" at times until it does.
 

Dr. Freeman

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I think I will start Thursday. It is my shortest day (schedule wise) and I can probably get by on breakfast.
 

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My only real issue (I, for whatever reason, am very insensitive to hunger. I don't really notice I am hungry until I start to eat. I actually feel quite full most of the day.)
is that when I go without food for any amount of time, I feel extreme mental lethargy. I am worried about the effects that will have on my schooling.

That is similar for me. If I haven't eaten in 20 hours I don't feel it, but once I start eating I have a harder time stopping. This is due to the catabolic/anabolic switchover I think. Breakfast and lunch works well.
 

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There is a lot of attention being put to caloric restriction in humans, the results are trickling in.
@Architect. Don't know if this makes sense but the more one carries around extra weight, the more the body has to take care of it and the more things could go wrong. I wonder if then it's statistics that would bring one down longevity-wise? I'm talking EXTRA weight, not what is necessary. This should be easy to make a scientific study on.
 

BigApplePi

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@Dr. Freeman.
If you are 6', 120 lbs I agree a weight gain would be okay, but if you are healthy now, there is no hurry. Just don't lose more weight. Ensure (http://ensure.com/) is the senior drink (for lunch) you might try. I can't recall if I've tried it for taste, but generally I don't care about taste if it's healthful. I missed if you are just asking about lunch. If you get fiber from breakfast and dinner, I'd say you can go with that drink for lunch. Anyone disagree?
Meat, dairy and eggs are the worst things you can eat health wise. Nuts are healthy in moderation.
Architect, not sure that is 100 percent correct. Didn't the Adkins diet go with just that? Not that one wants to load up on cholesterol as that diet is now out of fashion.

This sounds wise:
The closest thing to a wonderfood you can get is a bag of mixed fruit and nuts, it's pretty much just as convenient as a drink, you can eat as you work.
Don't forget water with that.
 

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@Architect

'Eating low on the foodchain'

Do you think this counts with animal sources?
I'm mainly thinking about fish. I'm vegetarian myself, but I've been considering picking up sardines for the nutritional value.
 

Architect

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@Architect

'Eating low on the foodchain'

Do you think this counts with animal sources?
I'm mainly thinking about fish. I'm vegetarian myself, but I've been considering picking up sardines for the nutritional value.

No, I wouldn't eat fish. Fish aren't low on the food chain, which is why they are contaminated with so much mercury. You don't need sardines, if you want more EPA/DHA there are vegan sources (it ultimately comes from microorganisms anyhow), and you can eat some flax meal in a smoothie for example.

Don't know if this makes sense but the more one carries around extra weight, the more the body has to take care of it and the more things could go wrong. I wonder if then it's statistics that would bring one down longevity-wise? I'm talking EXTRA weight, not what is necessary. This should be easy to make a scientific study on.

Yes that certainly is a problem and makes sense. When consuming too much the body has to do something with it. Fat is stored as is in the adipose tissues and the body does no processing on it. In other words, the fat in your body can be tested to see if it is chicken, beef, fish fat or whatever.

The problem is that with excess the body has an immune response in the critical endothelial cell lining of the arteries, this is why you have a higher white blood cell count when eating a fatty, normal modern diet compared to a lower calorie diet. This inflammation response is deadly long term. Intermittent fasting and lower calorie consumption gives your immune system a break, in addition to other affects. Mrs Architect and I have much lower white blood cell counts than the average American, because our systems aren't getting hammered into a continual inflammation response.

The body also stores the junk in clot structures in the artery system, I forget what these are called.
 

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No, I wouldn't eat fish. Fish aren't low on the food chain, which is why they are contaminated with so much mercury. You don't need sardines, if you want more EPA/DHA there are vegan sources (it ultimately comes from microorganisms anyhow), and you can eat some flax meal in a smoothie for example.


.....
Sardines are low on the food chain and thus mercury is a non-issue.

nvm
 

Architect

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Sardines are low on the food chain and thus mercury is a non-issue.

You still don't need them. They contain too much protein, fat and cholesterol, and no carbohydrates which is the energy source your body burns. They do contain omega-3s but there are cleaner and better sources of those in plants.
 

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Seriously? Not a lot of people seem to know about this, I usually get flack for pointing out the value of eating infrequently.

Do you have a special health condition that especially benefits from eating infrequently?
That's interesting, I always thought it was common knowledge that fasting increased lifespan. I was just talking about that in another thread on here last week, I believe someone else brought the topic up.

But yes, I have a unique condition that requires me to limit both my food and liquid intake and to exercise every day. If you're interested in hearing the particulars of the disorder, read on. I started out being type I diabetic when I was 9 years old. When I turned 21, I started drinking a lot, thinking that it was ok because my doctor said so. One night, I had a beer, went to bed, and when I woke up I was in shock (medically not emotionally). When I stood up, I passed out for the first time in my life. The alcohol did something to my metabolism that made it entirely shut down. I couldn't breathe and my heart slowed down to a virtual halt. I was taken to the Stanford ER where they did every test they could think of on me, but with inconclusive results. All they could say is that sometimes diabetics develop "secondary" metabolic disorders, but they usually don't happen over night. I ended up in bed for a year, too weak and disoriented to walk. Because of the lack of nutrients and the excess acid that built up in my blood, my vascular system began to atrophy. I nearly went blind and lost the feeling in my feet and hands. The doctor said I could die any time. But I didn't. I consulted a couple of friends who were nutrition experts, saw a holistic doctor, and read many articles online. We figured out that I had developed severe inflammation in my digestive tract, and was allergic to certain proteins, especially those present in malt grains. I started fasting and stopped eating carbohydrates all together. That gave me enough strength to get out of bed and start exercising. As I recovered, I regained my sight and peripheral nerve function. If I eat too much, the symptoms start to return. So I constantly stay in a catabolic state, and am very healthy as a result.
 

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PhoenixRising, thanks for sharing your story. Sorry to hear of your health issues but I'm glad you have a handle on them.

But surely you aren't in a constant catabolic state? How do you get your calories?
 

PhoenixRising

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PhoenixRising, thanks for sharing your story. Sorry to hear of your health issues but I'm glad you have a handle on them.

But surely you aren't in a constant catabolic state? How do you get your calories?
Sure thing. I always say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger... or smarter.

I am almost always in a catabolic state. I eat between 800 to 1000 calories per day, usually limiting myself to one or two meals. Between meals I make sure I fast for at least 8-10 hours. I also fast for 24 hours at least once a week. I do a minimum of 45 minutes of aerobics per day, burning an average of 500 calories. I also supplement with 25 different types of antioxidants and Tonalin, consuming a minimum of 12,000 ORAC units daily. This optimizes my metabolism further.
 

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Interesting ... if you don't mine me asking further ...

  • What is your weight & height?
  • How do you manage on 1k calories, while burning 500? That seems awfully low unless you are a really small person
  • What foods do you eat?
  • How is it eating like that? Well it's better than dying! but any comments on the adjustment?
  • Is that a reasonably accurate picture of you in your profile? If so you look great!
 

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@PhoenixRising.

My wife's business partner has had type I diabetes since age 12. I'm told she takes two kinds of insulin, fast acting and slow acting. She is very thin but not anorexic. That's all I know.

Anything you'd like me to ask her about or do you have your bases covered?
 

PhoenixRising

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Interesting ... if you don't mine me asking further ...

  • What is your weight & height?
  • How do you manage on 1k calories, while burning 500? That seems awfully low unless you are a really small person
  • What foods do you eat?
  • How is it eating like that? Well it's better than dying! but any comments on the adjustment?
  • Is that a reasonably accurate picture of you in your profile? If so you look great!
My height is 5' 7", weight 145lbs. I don't have any excess body fat though. I was studied a while back by a dermatologist who does research on body type and how it relates to skin type. He said I have several interesting genetic mutations, one of which is denser muscle mass without the presence of excess testosterone. In fact my testosterone is quite low, as it turned out, and I can lift 50lbs more than the average woman my height. The extra muscle adds 20+ pounds to my weight, even when I look emaciated.

My metabolism just works differently I suppose. I used to eat more before I got sick at age 21, but now I can't handle much food. I never have needed many calories, on 2000 calories per day I would gain a lot of weight. 1000 seems to be plenty for me, I've been eating that way for years. I don't have any nutrient deficiencies or weight loss.

I mostly eat vegetables and fruit, a little bit of lean meat or fish, yogurt, a little bit of gluten free grain such as rice, and I cook with olive oil. That's about it. I can't eat any junk food.

To be honest, I've been eating whole foods since I was 18, so this is the only way I know how to eat. I usually feel great, and have more stamina than when I ate more as a kid. Cutting out grain was tough, but after a week I felt so much better that I didn't miss it.

And, yes, that's generally what I look like. I was 22 there, so it's a few years old. I haven't aged much though, my appearance hasn't changed much since I was 17.
 

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PhoenixRising,
OK, Mrs Architect is taller and weighs 110 lbs, ectomorph - but still has 16% body fat which is appropriate for a woman. And she doesn't eat much either, probably that many calories come to think of it. Makes sense then. I introduced her to the catabolic/anabolic concepts and she has been feeling better since she's not trying to stuff herself. Skips dinner now.
Thanks for the information, I'm glad it worked out for you.
 

Fukyo

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Meat, dairy and eggs are the worst things you can eat health wise.

Why?

Funny thing, but I've known several people who advocate the complete opposite diet. Carbs are the devil, proteins and fat are good for you. It seems everyone has an opinion on nutrition these days.

I eat two meals per day (B & L), don't eat any dinner and appreciate the extra free time. I also sleep better without a meal on board. I've also done one meal per day but that's a little harder to get enough calories in.

Do you ever get hungry in between or after the meals? How do you deal with it, if it happens? What was the adjustment period like?
 

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The scientific evidence for this is numerous and widespread. At this point we've definitively demonstrated that a plant based diet is optimal for humans not a meat-based one. Interestingly, and naturally, this corresponds to the dietary habits of other primates. To get your feet wet in the research you can read The China Study.

Funny thing, but I've known several people who advocate the complete opposite diet. Carbs are the devil, proteins and fat are good for you. It seems everyone has an opinion on nutrition these days.

Yes, there is one thing that people really get upset about which is when you tell them that the diet but they were raised on is bad for them. Sensors in particular seem to get their panties in a bind over this topic. I have a doctor friend whose being told by his employer to eat a plant-based diet, and he struggles with it because of childhood memories of barbecues etc.

The high-protein crowd mostly trace from Dr. Atkins, who died a sick fat old man. Another crowd follow Weston Price. An example of this kind of thinking can be had from "Nourishing Traditions", which is more about diet philosophy than diet science.


Do you ever get hungry in between or after the meals? How do you deal with it, if it happens? What was the adjustment period like?

Not really, mainly when my body is switching over from anabolic to catabolic it seems to want to resist the changeover and it makes me think that I'm hungry. However if I do eat then I get too full and find out that I ate too much. It's a bit of a head game, the key is to realize that having a load of food in your intestines with your stomach empty is the best position to be in. Certainly it's the best for my concentration and general feeling of well-being. I have a hard time thinking with a full stomach.

The adjustment period wasn't that difficult, it took a few months to get used to it was all. A lot of it is psychological. The key point is to have a diet high in nutrient content, full of leafy green vegetables. I round it out with grains to provide caloric content. I (and others) have found that eating foods high in nutrient content (leafy greens, nuts, seeds, beans, mushrooms, fruits, berries etc) leads to higher satiation content. If I was eating more refined foods - like refined grains, cheese and meats, I'd get hungry more often.
 
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