I realized this recently when submitting a question to a group of INTJs
I used to hate them, when I thought that INTJs were made solely to fill the shoes of cops, meter maids, and Internet forum moderators;
However, I have now found a practical use for them
They innately understand where we are coming from so their answers are more spot on
Additionally, INTJs give empirical solutions that work, versus INTPs tendency to tread in la-la land.
I just have a difficult time deducing the sarcasm-- and it's a language I feel like I've mastered; I think they wield sarcasm so well that often the INTJ does not even know if he/she is kidding or not
Final note: they're difficult to offend because they always assume YOU are being sarcastic-- since they always are.
Is it a continuous process, as we attempt to gain a well defined objective, or are we just asking a single question and then we're done? Because if the first thing, then sooner = more fruitful. Unless the slower process yields the same volume at a slower, yet equal rate. Or if it yields more, too.
INTJs are robots with human hearts. They've mastered rhethorics and they've mastered strategy, but everything they do they do because of highly illogical feelings. If you make an INTJ feel offended, he finds the most logical way to defend against an offence, and he will stop at nothing until his feeling of being offended goes away. "Am I offended? I feel offended. I must be offended. We'll I'll show him!".
They want to see themselves behind a giant desk wearing the most fascionable clothes in town and have loads of cash on their account. But when you ask them, they deny that these wishes come from their insecurity of self, and when you ask them why people want money and power or anything by that nature, they just tell you to stop getting philosophical on them. They suck, and should be avoided if possible in any philosophical discussion, because they don't care about the topoc whatsoever. They only care about winning it, and they are even proud of it.
INTPs are the opposite, really. Humans with robot hearts. Our organic body enables us to see the world, and the robot heart makes us a): not care and b): tending to seek for the truth in the world. Others seek excitement, friendship, power or meaning - we seek the truth. I, for one, am not interested in being a boss or a CEO. I just want to have as much time as possible digging into some interesting subjects - not because I want fame and glory for mastering them - but because they are interesting. So much in fact that I sometimes find myself hitting walls, because the flesh is revolting, and I rarely know why when it happens.
So to sum it up, INTJs are twisted logical beings that spend their lifes telling themselves that what they are doing is right and in turn twist the truth to their own advantage. This sentence sound horrific and dispickable to us, but it sounds awesome to them. Sure, let them build bridges and wear suits, but don't you EVER let them in to a logical discussion with you.
INTPs are the opposite, really. Humans with robot hearts. Our organic body enables us to see the world, and the robot heart makes us a): not care and b): tending to seek for the truth in the world.
Is it a continuous process, as we attempt to gain a well defined objective, or are we just asking a single question and then we're done? Because if the first thing, then sooner = more fruitful. Unless the slower process yields the same volume at a slower, yet equal rate. Or if it yields more, too.
Precisely. But of course, it's just a metaphore. And I don't think I'm the first one to use it, either. The INTJ are human masters of the protocol and the INTP are robot observers of the subjective world. There probably is a better way of saying this, but I'm just a dirty foreigner.
Too negative? This needs to be said. The INTJs boast themselves to the heavens, calling the INTP a useless dreamer and claiming themselves to be the true thinkers. Then they prove their worth to themselves with suits, cigars and promotions, distancing themselves further from all critique with every success. They need to be stopped!
Forget the race-wars that a quarter of every lunatic have been talking about for the past millenia. Let's talk about the type-war.
One of the INTJ pros is that they stay on the specific topic at hand and address directly without going off on tangents;
Often-- an INTP won't even address the initial question directly, frustrating others
You might never get your question answered
The Te is also good because they'll layout their thought process for you, whereas an INTP values succinctness, the INTP may only be sharing his/her wisdom in an e=mc^2 formula;
Are INTPs the quintessential "I never showed my work in math" type?
Just fast forwarding to the answer?
Vs INTJs like to show their work? Is that an example of Ti vs Te?
One of the INTJ pros is that they stay on the specific topic at hand and address directly without going off on tangents;
Often-- an INTP won't even address the initial question directly, frustrating others
You might never get your question answered
The Te is also good because they'll layout their thought process for you, whereas an INTP values succinctness, the INTP may only be sharing his/her wisdom in an e=mc^2 formula;
Are INTPs the quintessential "I never showed my work in math" type?
Just fast forwarding to the answer?
Vs INTJs like to show their work? Is that an example of Ti vs Te?
My best friend since many years is an INTJ, and he seems to manifest everything he has. It's easy to see what he is doing when he does it, and you learn to keep up with his minds process since he's very much acting upon his understandings, and seeks understandings to act upon. They are perfectionists of action, and the step between a done homework and a showed homework is little but worth much.
Also, the self is often radically different from the percieved persona, especially in Is. As an INTP, you see yourself as having a clear sight as your main power. But to others, it seems like you have nothing clear whatsoever, since you only ever seem to be questioning everything. The INTJ-stereotype of the super-villain comes from viewing the percieved persona - Evil scheming in the persuit of selfish greed. To the INTJ on the other hand, the world is a protocol or a code, and they, as human beings, are just learning how to decypher it. They seem like robots and we seem like humans, but it's the other way around on the inside. Ozzy have never seen Ozzy perform live.
I easily beat the computer everytime I play a videogame. I analyse it's patterns and see the landscape, knowing that all grunts or elites act the same, and use my intuition to see how they would act with different weapons, in different surroundings or in different combinations, as I happen upon them. I slaughter the campaign on high difficulty that my friend (INTJ) is having serious trouble with, but the matches between us are even. I understand the machines, but to understand him, I have to start playing his game.
If you've seen the south park episode "A ladder to heaven", I could give another metaphor for the INTJ mind. They set a criteria (or a strategy) - to get the ladder to reach heaven - and then subjects every block of the ladder to that criteria. When facing another task, they set a different criteria. To the INTJ, every ship of enemies in Halo is a different piece. The INTPs detachment on the other hand, sees the same engine and mechanisms used everywhere. We are not here and now, we are playing the whole game to this point at once. We are shooting the same grunt every time. To me it means nothing when another ship comes in from nowhere during a battle, but he would panic.
Ni is impatience, finding clarity through guessing when you are out of ideas, and this is linked with closed-mindedness. An impatient INTJ can in fact be dangerous, accepting their best guess as the way forward in lack of substanse. If you would for example seek counseling with them, for say being depressed, they would set the criteria for you to feel well again in the most efficient way possible. Going through your pain and fully explore it the way you deal with everything else that's important to you would to him seem like a detour, and he would advise against it or simply not understand. I wouldn't advise you to go to an INTJ for your personal problems or mapping out you as a person, but rather an IN/SFJ, an ENF/TP. Someone either detached or with a vision similar to yours. The INTP can't be explained to satisfaction through the INTJ-filter.
I just KNOW there are some errors in the text up ahead, but after proof-reading several times I give up now. *Relieved sigh*
Indeed, the Thinker is never 'here and now' and should never be expected to be. I'm so frustrated when my psychologists/counselors tell me to 'live in the moment'; I freakin can't! Sure, I can shut down for an instant, but then my intuition and thinking processes come back online within seconds; there's just no point.
Well, you all have met some terrible INTJs in your lives(that or I'm the odd one out). I'll admit I like to win and show off and use sarcasm, but I don't name myself king and banish those who say I'm not. If one if my faults is raised I'm not going to blatantly deny it. As for being a perfectionist, it depends on if I care ir not. I see everyone as a rival, and if they have something over me I try to improve. Out of the people I've met INTPs seem to be the greatest rivals. Also, I never showed my work, I hated to. I hope that helps give some insight. Sincerly, an INTJ
INTJs are robots with human hearts. They've mastered rhethorics and they've mastered strategy, but everything they do they do because of highly illogical feelings.
If you make an INTJ feel offended, he finds the most logical way to defend against an offence, and he will stop at nothing until his feeling of being offended goes away. "Am I offended? I feel offended. I must be offended. We'll I'll show him!"
Well, you all have met some terrible INTJs in your lives(that or I'm the odd one out). I'll admit I like to win and show off and use sarcasm, but I don't name myself king and banish those who say I'm not. If one if my faults is raised I'm not going to blatantly deny it. As for being a perfectionist, it depends on if I care ir not. I see everyone as a rival, and if they have something over me I try to improve. Out of the people I've met INTPs seem to be the greatest rivals. Also, I never showed my work, I hated to. I hope that helps give some insight. Sincerly, an INTJ
I'm not saying that we are good and you are bad or whatever, just that we have different perspectives that tend to clash. If you for example love to win and hate to lose, you may try to do whatever to win.
In that case, other things may be pushed aside. Facts and truths for example may be manipulated, and that really gets under my skin. Stupidity is one thing, because I can usually explain the mechanics of anything discussed to people that are uncertain. But people that makes anything a competition and hate to lose? How can I get across anything to them?
I and many other INTPs don't see life as a competition, but a learning experience. (Not everyone of course, there are inflated rubber-men and women amongst us aswell as there are good INTJs). If you really want to learn anything, don't let your ego go unchecked. Sort of an internal struggle.
Well, you all have met some terrible INTJs in your lives(that or I'm the odd one out). I'll admit I like to win and show off and use sarcasm, but I don't name myself king and banish those who say I'm not. If one if my faults is raised I'm not going to blatantly deny it. As for being a perfectionist, it depends on if I care ir not. I see everyone as a rival, and if they have something over me I try to improve. Out of the people I've met INTPs seem to be the greatest rivals. Also, I never showed my work, I hated to. I hope that helps give some insight. Sincerly, an INTJ
Thank you for the best compliment you could possibly have given us
This is a fair answer and does reflect what I generally find to be the case in INTJs, who on the whole I don't find to be terrible, in fact, usually they either are or have the potential to be great people...but they certainly have some typical flaws. One of those is the tendency to have to make everything about rivalry and mean it.
Probably the #1 thing an INTJ could do to further their own personal growth would be to try to "widen the scope" of who they can feel proud of. Do you only ever feel proud for yourself, or a group you are a part of? Try feeling pride for the person who beats you at a game. It's weird at first but being genuinely happy for other people and recognizing their accomplishment without having to compare it to your own is a big relief compared to living in constant rivalry. And you'll still find yourself able to want to improve in your skills and gain accomplishments, just for better reasons, which ultimately should make you more likely to be successful, in the wider sense of the word.
Not that INTPs are perfect or anything. Honestly we're a mess. Please send help. (storks here representing Ti and Ne)
INTJs (from what I've noticed on the INTJf) are really mean. They're so ready to call someone out or judge them for something they've done instead of actually answering their question or helping to solve the OP's problems. Or they're just ready to give some sort of out-of-the-blue, irrelevant sarcastic answer to make themselves look cool-ish.
That's just what I've noticed. INTPf vs INTJf (both of which I lurk often).
INTJs can be great to interact with, for their ability to cut through confusion, be blatant about their thoughts, be likewise concerned with logic and systems, and to have interesting information always on hand ...
... but only if you have a fairly well developed ability to deal with judgement and turn it into a positive thing (as difficult as that can be). They can be kinda mean, in that they can be more likely to be self-centered (albeit in a more sophisticated way than a lot of other types are self-centered...which is both good and bad...their prison is fancy, but that just makes them want to stay in it).
Thank you Chronomar, I'll try to do that, and Proletar I too hate it when people do that, which makes me a hypocrite, also thanks for not being a biased prick, sorry if that's misunderstood I don't mean it in a bad way.
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(storks here representing Ti and Ne)