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[In AI] Only Symbols Are Being Manipulated And That's It.

Old Things

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Regarding AI, this specialist believes AI will never have the power to be conscious, have cognition, or be creative, which he calls the three Cs (12:03).

"Unfortunately computers cannot understand anything... Only symbols are being manipulated and that's it." (51:12)

"Uploading the mind... that means that that which is uploaded has to meet certain, I would think, relatively rigorous necessary conditions for being uploadable... We can't mathematically define what a cell is... And yet we are going to upload something that we have zero understanding of at least in the case of biology... where is that for this uploading thing?" (1:08:14)
 

Cognisant

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Give me a definition of consciousness that's demonstrably possessed by humans.

For example: Humans are conscious because they can make a decision when presented with a dilemma.

Sure enough this can be demonstrated, you give someone a dilemma and they make a decision. But I can also write a program that makes a decision by just picking from the available options at random, that may not be a good decision but it doesn't matter, obviously not all human decisions are good therefore the ability to make good decisions cannot be a prerequisite for consciousness.

If a definition for consciousness cannot be demonstrated by a human then by that definition to say humans are conscious is a baseless assumption, this neatly rules out all paradoxical and magic reliant definitions which is fundamentally what this whole debate is about.

Put simply you believe humans are magic, be it a soul or whatever basically you're saying humans are somehow more than the sum of their parts, that there's some ineffable, irreducible, irreplicable something that somehow makes human intelligence/consciousness/cognition/creativity/whatever fundamentally different to artificial intelligence/consciousness/cognition/creativity/whatever.

You can believe whatever you want but you cannot demonstrate it, your definition of consciousness is by its own definition a baseless assumption and I don't need to change your mind because it doesn't matter, AI development will continue, every aspect of the human mind that can be demonstrated will be studied, understood and replicated.

You can spend the rest of your days insisting that artificial intelligence isn't real intelligence and the world will politely ignore you as AI becomes ever more ubiquitous and the distinction between man and machine becomes ever more irrelevant.
 

Animekitty

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how the brain does it is how a.i. will do it.
grow like a baby from a seed

we know all the wire diagrams
it is simple to duplicate
but as a child is raised simulating this is difficult.

making evolution happen is difficult.
no one is trying to create artificial human beings. just toy problems.
 

Animekitty

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the key to higher-order thought is self-monitoring
it's not just about manipulating symbols but about internal and external feedback loops.
 

Old Things

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Give me a definition of consciousness that's demonstrably possessed by humans.

Simple, a "what it's like" to be you. AI has no way to do that.
 

Cognisant

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Qualia is the experience of having subjective experience and AI already demonstrably possesses the ability to have subjective experiences.

If I point a camera at a work of art and use image analysis software it can give me objective observations, y'know mathematical stuff like a percentage of how much of the artwork is a certain color. If I use another camera/computer it will give me exactly the same answers because these are objective observations, they are measurements independent of the subject making them.

But AI can learn and interpret, an image recognition AI has to be taught what something looks like and then it interprets the images its shown based on that prior experience. So you can have two AIs running exactly the same software look at the same abstract image and see different things because they were trained on different data sets.

Now if you train exactly the same AI software on exactly the same training data you'll probably get the same answer, I say probably because this is a lot of processing taking place and the slightest error will result in an AI that has a subtly different interpretation. Likewise if you make an exact copy of someone and have them experience exactly the same life then that exact copy is going to have exactly the same interpretation of what they're seeing as the original, because if they don't then they're not an exact copy.

As for qualia the subjective experience of having subjective experience that's impossible to demonstrate, I cannot prove that you have qualia, I can presume you do because you're human and I'm human and I know I have qualia but I cannot know what it feels like to be you without actually being you. Likewise an AI that is capable of subjective experience probably has some kind of qualia although how it experiences that qualia is impossible to know and given the difference in complexity the qualia of a current generation AI wouldn't be anywhere near as profound as human qualia.

Probably more like the qualia of an insect or nematode.
 

Old Things

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Did you watch the video?

Qualia is the experience of having subjective experience and AI already demonstrably possesses the ability to have subjective experiences.

What is this based on that AI already has qualia?

Probably more like the qualia of an insect or nematode.

Depends on your definition of Qualia. The main view at this point is that only higher animals have qualia.
 
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