• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Have you ever mastered something?

Tannhauser

angry insecure male
Local time
Today 9:52 PM
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
1,462
-->
INTP is known for being lazy, not interested in routine, not very self-disciplined, being easily bored and have a short attention span. So it seems that an INTP is not very well endowed with traits that make him/her well conditioned for mastery.

Have you mastered some specific subject/art/craft and how did you do it, especially in light of the INTP-traits mentioned above? How did you overcome the obstacles, and was there some specific events or books or something else that helped you?

I am very curious to hear your story.
 

Alias

empirical miracle
Local time
Today 3:52 PM
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
692
-->
Location
My current location is classified.
I've kind of mastered playing the Spy in Team Fortress 2 (the guy as my avatar). I did it by loving how the game and class was played. Independently, intelligently, and smoothly. Then I would just play it a lot (yet in moderation). After watching some interesting videos I really got the hang of it, and now everyone's astonished as to how I get out of sticky situations in a game.

About other things I"m not sure what I've mastered. I'll probably master plenty of other things in my life.
 

Void

oblivious
Local time
Today 9:52 PM
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
100
-->
Mastered may be an incorrect term, but I'm very good at playing the guitar and writing music, I'm a good coder, and I was always in the top 2 of my basketball team ( I quit ). Or that's what people tell me anyway. For me its just doing the things that interest me and doing it the best I can. I think that's it. INTP's cant focus because they are quickly bored, but when they do find something that interests them, oh boy.
 

dark+matters

Active Member
Local time
Today 12:52 PM
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
463
-->
Is it possible to ever truly master anything that isn't very contained (like a video game)? With most things, the more you learn, the more you realize you have so much more to learn.

For instance, did Einstein master physics? :confused: Has Richard Dawkins mastered evolution? Has J.K. Rowling mastered creative writing?

I think an artist of some sort can sort of master his or her own personal style (Picasso, van Gogh, Bruce Lee, Marilyn Monroe, Fred Astaire) but I don't think an intuitive's love of broad theorizing will often itself to that kind of mastery. It's always going to yearn for something way too far off in the distance for that discrete value to be attained.

 

Hadoblado

think again losers
Local time
Tomorrow 6:22 AM
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
5,812
-->
INTPs should be near the top of the conceptual curve, forever refining complex systems. To other people it may appear they've mastered the material, but I expect to most INTPs that's just a symptom of their observer having an even smaller degree of mastery. If it's something that can be mastered in a lifetime it's probably not that interesting to begin with.

So in a practical sense, yes, once they've found a passion they should be considered 'masters' of it after they've spent sufficient time exploring it and building up their internal model. I don't have any such areas that I specialise in, none worth bragging about anyway. I can see myself going that way with psychology or economics if I decide to really sit down and get busy with it.
 

NormannTheDoorman

Rice is love. Rice is life.
Local time
Tomorrow 7:52 AM
Joined
Aug 18, 2012
Messages
437
-->
Location
Guam
In terms of video games I mastered the Axis Rifleman class in Day of Defeat:Source. I've also pretty much mastered typing. Accuracy and speed that most people don't have.
 

Yellow

for the glory of satan
Local time
Today 1:52 PM
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
2,897
-->
Location
127.0.0.1
I'm really stuck on this concept of mastery. Personally, I'm never completely sure of anything, never fully confident of anything (when put to question), and never fully satisfied with anything. So while it may appear to others that I've mastered things, I would disagree entirely.
 

The Gopher

President
Local time
Tomorrow 7:52 AM
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
4,667
-->
Is it possible to ever truly master anything that isn't very contained (like a video game)? With most things, the more you learn, the more you realize you have so much more to learn.

I'm really stuck on this concept of mastery. Personally, I'm never completely sure of anything, never fully confident of anything (when put to question), and never fully satisfied with anything. So while it may appear to others that I've mastered things, I would disagree entirely.

Generally you think you know something, then you realize you don't, then this repeats often until one day you realize what you don't know. Then the gap closes between what you know and what you know you don't know. Now even the things you know you may only know with 80% correctness and things often change as it were however you still know how likely it is that you know it. There is only one area where I know what I don't know, that is the area I have mastered.

If you are stuck on the meaning of the word due to implying no longer learning that's incorrect. Also like all language it's not set in stone. You may be a master compared to your peers but not compared to others or yourself. I would argue you are never a master compared to yourself you only are ever average however that is not how the word is supposed to be used.

Also I failed already, I woke up today saying "I'll only post if it's worth posting" yet here I am..
 

Esurient Fere

*grownup
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
62
-->
Location
In the mainframe.
007 Goldeneye for N64. It turned into everyone trying to gang up on me (3v1) Where I could usually score 25 points before anyone could kill me (score a point). It didn't take long until no one would play me. Now I'm probably average.
I also have a highly trained intuition. I wouldn't say I've mastered it but it's above average.
 

Yellow

for the glory of satan
Local time
Today 1:52 PM
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
2,897
-->
Location
127.0.0.1
007 Goldeneye for N64. It turned into everyone trying to gang up on me (3v1) Where I could usually score 25 points before anyone could kill me (score a point). It didn't take long until no one would play me.
Next, you'll tell us that you beat Super Mario Bros. Golden Eye is a rigged game. It just chooses an opponent at random and makes it look like one is winning, but the buttons don't really work, right?... No one ever actually wins a first-person shooter game... Right?!
:phear:
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
Local time
Tomorrow 7:52 AM
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
7,253
-->
Location
69S 69E
I won money playing video games, does that count?

I don't think there's any one thing I've mastered. I've probably mastered smaller aspects of larger things but I can't think of something I'd surely consider myself a master at.
 

Sixup

Active Member
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Messages
170
-->
I think I've mastered thumb wrestling. Can't remember the last time I was beat. And I have small baby hands. Technique, my friends.
 

SpaceYeti

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 1:52 PM
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
5,592
-->
Location
Crap
Guitar in Rock Band. I could pass any song, usually with just one try (I have fantastic sight-reading, apparently). That was a few years ago, and it's a useless ability, but it was a thing I mastered. I'm still okay, but it'd take a few days of practice to get it back. not worth it. Almost everything I can think of that I was good at is game-related. Because, you know, it's something I can pay attention to for longer than ten minutes.
 

Pyropyro

Magos Biologis
Local time
Tomorrow 4:52 AM
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
4,044
-->
Location
Philippines
We have to define what mastery is first.

If we're going to use "comprehensive knowledge or skill in a subject or accomplishment." then I can say that I have mastered some parts of my field. It's simply working with the same thing for hours on end.

@dark+matters gonna borrow that sloth for my avvie :)
 

Reluctantly

Resident disMember
Local time
Today 10:52 AM
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
3,135
-->
Not sure what you mean by mastery, but I am motivated by understanding something. Once I've understood, I can apply what I know, but I get bored fast. Things that seem infinitely complicated, such as physics and many engineering fields, tend to always have me coming back for more.

I think I need to be intellectually challenged. Mastery usually isn't very intellectually challenging, but takes practice learning and dealing with fine details and differences. So unless I need to do that for a job or fixing my car or something like that, I'll avoid it.
 

TheScornedReflex

(Per) Version of a truth.
Local time
Tomorrow 9:52 AM
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
1,940
-->
I'm a master debater.
 

Kuu

>>Loading
Local time
Today 2:52 PM
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
3,388
-->
Location
The wired
I guess mastery is when you've reached a level of knowledge/skill where the activity flows easily for you, posing little challenge and resulting in consistent success with minimal failure. There's always more to learn of course. Now, at risk of sounding like an onanistic douche:

I think I've mastered procrastination english (as a non-native speaker). I can read and write about complex subjects, have fluent conversations, understand a large amount of idiomatic expressions, detect nuances, etc. Last two times I was tested I scored on the highest range and only 2 points off the maximum score (that is, 99.7%). Often I seem to have more vocabulary and less spelling mistakes than a sizeable number of natives, which is somewhat distressing.

Alas I've never felt this as being that much of an achievement because it seems to be such a widespread skill and because I've been taught since before I even remember. I just grew into it. I've always been in bilingual schools; many of my science and history classes were in english, and I loved those classes. I also devoured books and particularly the vocabulary sections. I think it was around 1994 we got cable TV which had lots of american TV with subtitles, which of course was a huge boon, and when my father changed his win 3.1 to 95 I started to use it to browse the internet...

TTM (time to mastery): 10 years at the very least (more like twice that) of frequent exposure. Though never actually lived in a native-english place for more than a few weeks.


I think I've mastered digital photography. I can make good looking shots that are technically correct in full manual mode, know how film and digital cameras work and what all that stuff in the menus means, know the specs jargon, know what's required for studio lighting, portraits, landscapes, architecture, sports, macro... and can explain the subject matter to other people (unlike monstrous amounts of people in the internet who dumb things down or make numerous egregious mistakes). I also know how to post-process images properly (my photoshop-fu is quite strong) and prepare them for display or print. It's not like I'm doing national geographic covers or winning prizes, but I do have plenty shots worthy of large prints, that would easily sell if I ever cared to sell them. Well, I actually did win 1st and 3rd place on a contest at university, but I think the bar wasn't particularly high...

I started taking photos in 97 when on a family trip to Spain (I was 9 years old then). My father bought me a 110 format camera, largely keeping me off his new Sony Cybershot (which being one of the earliest consumer digitals, was almost as expensive as it was shitty). I spent some years taking pics with various point and shoot digitals until at some point I enrolled in a class and learned how to use a SLR. I was lucky that the teacher was old school and taught history of photography and didn't dumb down technical matters (which is rather common). After that I got a DSLR, read a couple of books and kept shooting. I learn some tricks from websites, mostly about lighting and raw, but its largely a matter of practice. There's something about capturing a moment in time that tickles my Si-Fe just so. Photoshop I learned at university for my major though.

TTM: 15 years of sporadic shooting, easily over 50k shots (that's an average of 9 photos per day). 8 years of somewhat frequent photoshopping. Ofc its the thinking before and after the shots that matters, one could easily burst shoot hundreds of shit photos in a couple of minutes and gain nothing whatsoever...


I'm also on the (endless) process of mastering history and theory of Architecture. Certainly I am far, far from the erudite 60-year old masters with doctorates from 10 universities and 20 books penned, and it's truly hopeless to try to know it all considering the (literally) thousands of years of history, and the exponential growth of both architectural production and thought since the industrial revolution... but at least I've reached a critical knowledge mass where I am now paid to teach introductory courses at an undergrad level, which I guess is the closest to an objective lower bound measure of mastery as can be.

Obviously I studied this for years at university, but I certainly went above and beyond what was required of me; to the point that by my senior year I was debating and even correcting my teachers (many didn't appreciate that :mad:). Mostly its been a matter of reading a lot. An obstacle is that, besides needing to have tons of time to read, most of that knowledge is not at all available online, so you're stuck with physical books, most of which are quite expensive and need to be imported (and then, a whole lot of what you read is just trash). But most challenging of all is that architecture is a peculiar field which informs itself with knowledge from a vast amount of other fields, so that in order to understand its history, and in particular the history of its theory, you also have to understand the cultural, intellectual, political, technological context, which requires knowing about the history of all sorts of stuff to make sense of what people were writing at a particular era. How can one comprehend the writings of, say, early 20th century modern architects without knowing about the history and theory of socialism, the philosophy of positivism, the Meiji restoration, psychological behaviourism, political geography, the 1920s obsession with sunbathing, Husserl and Heideggers' phenomenology, cholera and the growth of microbiology, transatlantic cruise ships, jazz music, cubism, or Einstein's relativity and space-time continuum? It's an ever branching rabbit hole; you need to become somewhat of a walking encyclopaedia, which suits me just fine. I never did plan to pursue an academic career on this, it's just a side effect of my natural INTP tendency to absorb information into a cohesive knowledge net.

TTM: Probably a lifetime, but 9 years so far, largely involving countless hours of mostly reading dozens and dozens of books, articles, lectures, wikipedia pages :D...

What I'd really like to master is the capacity to monetize my skills. Some people just seem to be able to make money out of thin air, or get paid twice as much for half as good... I suck at commercialism.
 

Sinny91

Banned
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
May 16, 2015
Messages
6,299
-->
Location
Birmingham, UK
Only thing I've mastered is flipping and catching a pile of 52 beer mats.
I've obviously spent too much time in the pub.
 

TheManBeyond

Banned
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
2,850
-->
Location
Objects in the mirror might look closer than they
If you mean be good enough in something so you can get something real out of the knowledge i know enough of music production. recording, mixing and mastering.
The past 5 months i've been really interested in the details because of a conversation i had with tmills27 where i found out that even if i knew how to sound good i didn't know what was going on behind the steps i was taking to get there.
All my life is about being incapable of explaining myself.
 
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
1,529
-->
Location
the Purgatory
No :( nothing,
save for the art of winged eyeliner.
 

Brontosaurie

Banned
Local time
Today 9:52 PM
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
5,646
-->
i'm pretty good at everything that doesn't have any reasonable standard of mastery.
 

Yellow

for the glory of satan
Local time
Today 1:52 PM
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
2,897
-->
Location
127.0.0.1
I guess mastery is when you've reached a level of knowledge/skill where the activity flows easily for you, posing little challenge and resulting in consistent success with minimal failure. There's always more to learn of course.
Using this definition, I suppose we've all probably mastered something by now. Like literacy. I think it's safe to assume we're all master readers. Areas in which we are specifically degreed and successfully vocationally experienced would qualify too, as well as subjects we've successfully taught to others.
 

HDINTP

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 9:52 PM
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
570
-->
Location
In my own world
Not really. You would probably say "I do something until I feel competent and then move on to something else".
 

recursive

Redshirt
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
Aug 25, 2015
Messages
3
-->
I'm pretty good at 3d graphics.
Since it's my 'career' I have no other choice but to be as good as i can. It's an interesting field actually, there's always something new to learn.
 

YOLOisonlyprinciple

Active Member
Local time
Tomorrow 2:22 AM
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
322
-->

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Today 1:52 PM
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,691
-->
Mastery means reaching professional level; the point where somebody is willing to pay you to do it.

Ignoring nonce jobs such as working at a hardware store or on a farm (both of which I've done), examples where I've been paid for having some skill

  • Musician (classical)
  • STEM teacher/tutor
  • Physicist
  • Requirements analyst
  • Software Engineer
Fields where I have equivalent mastery and provided service to another, but haven't actually been paid (either because there isn't much of a market for it or I didn't try)

  • Audio amplifier designer
  • Electronics technician
  • Palaeontologist
  • Sailor
  • White hat hacker
  • Financial and investing consultant
  • ESL consultant (was for a Japanese firm I worked with)
  • Photographer
  • Recording engineer
  • MIS technician
  • Start up consultant
  • MBTI consultant
  • Nutritionist
  • Friend (a coworker once paid me to be their friend but it wasn't much)
  • Ergonomic consultant (did this at work so might be considered paid)
  • Life Coach (NT & NF, while I have insight for the S types they never ask)
 

peoplesuck

is escaping
Local time
Today 2:52 PM
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Messages
1,673
-->
Location
only halfway there
from an estimation im around 3600 hours into learning to draw so, nearly half way?:confused:
 

tikhung01

Redshirt
Local time
Tomorrow 4:52 AM
Joined
Aug 2, 2015
Messages
9
-->
Well I can type at 110WPM and easily solve a Rubik's Cube in under 20 seconds so there's that.
 

TheManBeyond

Banned
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
2,850
-->
Location
Objects in the mirror might look closer than they
I'm pretty good at 3d graphics.
Since it's my 'career' I have no other choice but to be as good as i can. It's an interesting field actually, there's always something new to learn.


hey i'm learning 3d shit right now using 3d max, in the past i've used solidworks, but i'm a total amateur :P, how many time would you say i need to get some decent results?
kinda silly question but whatsoever
 

Bock

caffeine fiend
Local time
Today 9:52 PM
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
225
-->
I have mastered the art of procrastination.
 

jelly_bean

scientist extraordinaire
Local time
Today 1:52 PM
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
2
-->
5 years ago I mastered the art of soil description. That is a skill set used in soil science. I won a national championship. Haven't mastered anything since.
 

Tannhauser

angry insecure male
Local time
Today 9:52 PM
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
1,462
-->
What I find interesting is not necessarily whether someone mastered something according some given standard, but how someone goes through the process of putting in a great effort to learn something.

As for me, I have tried to become decent at math. It has often been a very unorganic process in the sense that most of the time I am not in a flow state where everything is fun and engaging. Most of the time I have to force-feed my mind.

I mostly struggle with the INTP-esque propensity to learn math in a sort of descriptive, conceptual way rather than learning it as good mathematicians do -- as a set of tools for problem solving. In general I am way worse at problem solving than learning theory, so I approach the problem-solving as a sort of craft in itself. And I think that propensity might be, to some degree, be explained in light of MBTI-theory. But I have a romanticized vision that if an INTP finally learns the full structure, e.g. some sub-field of mathematics, the combination of Ti and the wild idea-generation of the Ne might become fruitful.

But I think its clear why most INTPs think math is shit: you would much rather have Ni than Ne for problem solving. Whenever I am looking at a problem, I am usually seeing more problems rather than a solution.
 

JamUsagi

Try-annosaurus Rekt
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
3
-->
I'm a master at Jigglypuff in Smash 4.

I've noticed that for me, I improve up to a certain point in whatever I like doing, and then I hit a brick wall where my brain slowly dissolves until I do something else. Hence, no mastery.
 

DaDaMan

Dissident Resident
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
Oct 24, 2010
Messages
52
-->
Location
in your FACE!
Some of those qualities that you say are unbeneficial for mastery are actually qualities that necessitate it.

I think to master something completely requires the freedom to play with that thing, to analyze it in an unconstrained way, to explore it to the full degree without hindering oneself with self-imposed boundaries.
 

_intp

Redshirt
Local time
Today 3:52 PM
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
23
-->
Location
New York
Damn....this makes me sad. I haven't mastered a goddamned thing.
 

Tannhauser

angry insecure male
Local time
Today 9:52 PM
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
1,462
-->
Some of those qualities that you say are unbeneficial for mastery are actually qualities that necessitate it.
Interesting. Which ones?
I think to master something completely requires the freedom to play with that thing, to analyze it in an unconstrained way, to explore it to the full degree without hindering oneself with self-imposed boundaries.
I agree that should be a large part of it. However I do believe it is very important to set down clear goals and criteria you wish to fulfil. Otherwise it is easy, especially when trying to learn challenging stuff, to fall into a lazy mode of just playing around with the things you already are good at, staying within your comfort zone perpetually.
 

Miss spelt

Banned
Local time
Today 1:52 PM
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
202
-->
Sometimes I think I've mastered baiting especially when people tell me to fuck myself
 

Teax

huh?
Local time
Today 9:52 PM
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
392
-->
Location
in orbit of a friendly star <3
Tannhauser said:
What I find interesting is not necessarily whether someone mastered something according some given standard, but how someone goes through the process of putting in a great effort to learn something.

As for me, I have tried to become decent at math. It has often been a very unorganic process in the sense that most of the time I am not in a flow state where everything is fun and engaging. Most of the time I have to force-feed my mind.

Infants master a great many skills in a short time. One might argue that their brain physiology enables them to do so; me however, unable to admit inferiority to a child, theorized that the state of mind called "fun" is the key. I get exhausted quickly doing/learning something I was told to do. Yet if the same task is part of some bigger hobby project, I can spend every waking moment doing it.

So the solution to your predicament is as simple as it is effective: reduce the amount of time spent on "must do" things as much as possible (zero?). Sit down in a purely intellectual act to find and set a fun goal to accomplish something that involves the chore somehow. And then do that instead. On the flipside: There's never a 100% overlap, and you end up doing lots of stuff that was unnecessary for the initial task at hand (or so an INTJ might argue), which ofcourse takes away a ton of time. But as it turns out, it takes about the same time head-butting a brick wall for an INTP in the first place, and here you get nifty side-realizations along the way that in fact build the foundation to whatever you're learning and the fuel for your Ne.

The premeditative act of finding fun goals is an art in and of itself, that improves and yield better results the more it's used. Moreover, an INTP's (negatively connotated) traits play perfectly into this entire game, so the mini goals never conflict because INTPs like to have multiple interests and are easily dropped when it's no longer fun with no regrets and no lingering urge to actually finish some useless dummy goal.

DISCLAIMER:
the technique stated above works iff you poses a certain bare minimum of self discipline. The most fun thing to do at any given time might involve the consumption of a dangerous amount or alcohol or going on a video-game bender (both simultaneously....... :o ) So this technique is not intended to change your behavioral patterns, which is probably better left for a separate thread, but rather to eliminate the mental block that forces you to force-feed yourself your school library, after you've already decided to study.

and no, I did not intend to write an entire essay I dunno why my posts get so long... but I genuinely believed you were fishing for solutions, not just talking for conversation's sake

Tannhauser said:
I mostly struggle with the INTP-esque propensity to learn math in a sort of descriptive, conceptual way rather than learning it as good mathematicians do -- as a set of tools for problem solving. In general I am way worse at problem solving than learning theory, so I approach the problem-solving as a sort of craft in itself. And I think that propensity might be, to some degree, be explained in light of MBTI-theory. But I have a romanticized vision that if an INTP finally learns the full structure, e.g. some sub-field of mathematics, the combination of Ti and the wild idea-generation of the Ne might become fruitful.

But I think its clear why most INTPs think math is shit: you would much rather have Ni than Ne for problem solving. Whenever I am looking at a problem, I am usually seeing more problems rather than a solution.

My own definition of "understand", when it comes to learning math, implies the ability to use the information to solve a problem. Therefore I must disagree about them being separate skills. For the kind of shallow learning taught in (e.g.) schools I use the term "know about", which is limited to Si and naturally is insufficient to satisfy a T/N dominant xNTx.

What good does it do to know about the different LEGO pieces, if you can't put them together to build a toy car? Do they even fit together? And yes, I believe that is where N comes in, Ne being the least efficient form: you end up looking for solutions to problems nobody in your immediate vicinity cares about... fun though :^^:
 

Glaerhaidh

straightedgy
Local time
Today 9:52 PM
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
4,373
-->
Location
someplace windswept
Mastery comes in many varieties. I will mention the part pertaining to confidence below without paying a due acknowledgment to other elements of it.

Yes, there are a few things in my life that I've felt perfectly confident with. At a younger age I've practised and performed piano pieces with results of which I was fully satisfied and I could improvise or change the tone or mood of the piece the way I felt at the time. It is a very subjective kind of mastery, one where I become completely lost in the music and unable to care or think about anything else, there is only confidence and competence.

Another example is a computer game I've played a lot and learnt all of its mechanics and values. I can play heroes 3 with anyone and I know how to respond to every situation or what move should be made, I know all of the tiniest advantages that I can get to the point where I struggle to find challenging opponents for me. Since playing 1 vs maximum (or infinite) number of AI with 0 resources is a piece of cake, I used to play multiplayer with the stronger players on specific maps, I used to do pretty well and even today I would be very surprised if someone played as well as I do (not that there aren't such people, but they are rare).

The things that I tend to achieve the most expertise at are usually the things that give me enjoyment, immersion, feelings of accomplishment, competence and/or fuel my curiosity in some way. In spite of this I struggle to persevere, stay on one track and dedicate fully to a single goal and I often regret that, figuratively I wish I had eternity to correct all of my mistakes while I'm also aware of all the joys that come with exploring new and exciting directions which is usually enough to reward losing focus. That being said, these days I divided my time to intensively pursue a few topics and another part of it to explore or play around.
 

PaulMaster

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 8:52 PM
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
681
-->
Location
USA
Mastery is what I've valued most for the longest.
 

Happy

sorry for english
Local time
Tomorrow 7:52 AM
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,336
-->
Location
Yes
I mastered minesweeper. Was trying to break the world record, but didn't quite get there before I got bored of it.
 

Polaris

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 9:52 AM
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,261
-->
I have rarely felt completely confident in anything, and therefore think I have never gotten to the point of complete mastery of anything either. Although, I have tinkered in so many fields now people tend to think I have a high level of mastery, and therefore, in my own opinion, over-estimate my capabilities. This often results in situations where I find myself given tasks that I think I am not capable of doing, and yet pushing through due to a mixture of rebellion against my own anxiety and a pathological fear of failure. The results are usually not satisfactory in my perception, but somehow people seem to think they are. I hate that.

When I actually do master something - I am fully aware that I am flying above the norm, and what I produce can be exceptional. To be in perfect flow is such a high - it pushes you forward into territory where you can excel far beyond your own as well as anyone else's expectations.

Unfortunately, I tend to slump back into low confidence too easily as my expectations of my own performance is utterly self- destructive, and can leave me flailing where I have no reason to.

I think the latest description Architect posted recently is one of the best I have seen; the bolded parts really nails it in terms of how I work, and the 3 last paragraphs describing nihilism and the Dark Alchemist are particularly eerie:


"Don't pander to me, kid. One tiny crack in the hull and our blood boils in thirteen seconds. Solar flare might crop up, cook us in our seats. And wait'll you're sitting pretty with a case of Andorian shingles, see if you're still so relaxed when your eyeballs are bleeding. Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
Dr. Leonard "Bones" McCoy, Star Trek (2009)

The INTP Alchemist is the situational rescuer, excelling in understanding the complexity of details and the potential of data; an endless fount of possible ways to make things better. They explore specifics and engineer solutions by finding the plot holes of real life, asking the questions others would never think to ask. And though they tend to pride themselves on their accuracy and use, there lurks within an off-the-wall, child-like quirkiness and a protective love for those whose problems they diligently endeavor to solve.

From childhood, young INTPs are thrilled by possibilities. The ultimate "Idea-Guys”, INTPs get stoked by new ways to do things and new ways to use the world around them. Where their ENTP counterparts approach the whole world with the question, "What can I do with me?,” INTPs are always looking for new and exciting ways to answer the question, "What can I do with this?"

The world for an INTP is aglow with materials that can be learned and explored in their billions of uses. Often finding fascinating ideas in the realms of science fiction or inventions that can reach the height of their imagination when it comes to what possibilities could be, little INTPs can sometimes feel like the world right in front of them little resembles the excitement of the concepts their minds can offer. As others may not appreciate the exciting options a little INTP sees all around them, the INTP may pull in on themselves, preferring to enjoy their cherished ideas on their own, rather than sharing them with others who might not value their merit.

INTPs love depth of knowledge, preferring it over breadth, loving to know everything there is to know about their area of choice. Because their minds automatically prioritize knowing the specific ins-and-outs of what works in potential situations, they love to study and understand *all* there is to know about a given field, so that no imagined situation could come up that their minds couldn't handle. To an INTP, every situation is different and they need to understand all the possible tools they might need to use, but the world is just too big to know everything about *everything*, so their minds naturally pick the fields they care about most, to learn *everything* about some things.

This gives the INTP three choices.

Excelling at examining the specific bullet-points of information and data that make up the world around them, INTPs struggle to see how all those bullet-points add up to make a complete picture of the world and the way it works. The universe can be a scary place to an INTP, feeling like trying to nail down zoomed-out principles always leads in their mind to either oversimplified generalities, or a chaotic world that they can never expect to do the same thing twice. This can lead INTPs to Moriarty Fear, the resentment of the world outside their specialization, fearing that they need to specialize in *all* types of information or be rendered obsolete.

This gives INTPs their first choice; to try and imply that any knowledge or expertise outside their own specialization is useless, unimportant or not really intelligence. INTPs who take this first path feel the need to enforce the cultural stereotype that the only kind of intelligence is being good with specific conceptual data and analysis of situations, so that they don't feel secondary to those with other specializations.

But the cultural belief and expectation for INTP to be the "smartest" of the types (whether people know the letters or not) is as detrimental to INTPs as it is to all the other types. Each type is the "smartest" in its own Type Specialization and it puts undue pressure on INTPs to expect them to be smart in all areas, when really they desire to focus on the area they love and shouldn't be expected to be strong in every type's specialization.

And at the same time, the focus on INTPs being mentally strong, an area that our culture equates with INTP's fav of specific data, culturally forbids them from trying, experiencing and getting good at other areas they may want to try. My INFJ and I were startled when facial typing showed us that basketball legend Michael Jordan had the facial structure of an INTP, but it was awesome to read his quotes and reexamine his approach to basketball and recognize that INTP is truly the way he cognates. He was revolutionary in the sport because, rather than having natural physical ability, he instead was constantly trying new possibilities and specializing in exploring what made basketball work. Though he was kicked off his sophomore team for being too small, and always talked about how many shots he missed, he applied concepts of what worked in basketball scenarios to revolutionize the game and become a role model for millions of people. INTPs should feel like they have permission to specialize in *anything*, not like they can only be good at certain types of specialization.

And, of course, I shouldn't have to mention how INTP's smart being the "only" kind of smart makes other types feel. How underappreciated the cleverness of ESTPs are, or the insightful brilliance of ENFJs. What ISFP brings to IP situations or what ENFPs see in the possibilities of people. Each type, when healthy, is the *smartest* in what it loves. The types are a team, without any one of which, the whole thing topples.

An INTP who makes this first choice will end up in constant fear of being usurped or passed, their denial of the validity of knowledge outside their expertise making them lose perspective, and constant comparison with others spreading them thin so that they can't even excel in their own chosen area of specialization. This INTP won't end up feeling like the smartest kid on the block, but in a constant power-struggle that makes them feel of less worth than before.

The second option for an INTP is to accept others belittling their specializations as small, impractical, or unimportant, and for the INTP to believe that maybe the things that mattered to them really weren't as important as they thought or felt, trying not to bother others with the possibilities and options they see all around them. It's easy for an INTP to limit their Type Specialization to the data they deal with, rather than the things they can achieve with that knowledge and understanding. The INTP that lets themselves get disparaged about their own importance can get very down on themselves, not realizing just how much they have to offer.

But when an INTP instead gives themselves permission to delve deep into their favorite area of specific information, enjoying exploring the worlds of potential available through the information they love, when they’re willing to stand up and realize how huge the universe is and enjoy the fact that there is still so much to learn, when they’re willing to stand-up for the heroism inherent in fixing things, the INTP becomes a possibility-revealing problem-solver, quick to find a way out of any dilemma, complexly understanding and drawing conclusions about situations to use each moment to its fullest for the help and benefit of everyone around them. This is the INTP Alchemist.

The conceptual version of the ISTP Weapons Specialist, the Alchemist is the expert of possible solutions. Dr. McCoy’s infamous, "D@#$ it, Jim! I'm a Doctor, not a ________!" (engineer, physicist, escalator...) sums up the way INTPs specialize, perfectly. Whether they decide to know everything about forensic anthropology, archeology, the Force, gadgeteering, con-artistry, vampires, or rocks, the Alchemist is fiction’s go-to for conceptual expertise, finding adorable, geeking-out joy in whatever area tickles their fancy. As a Perceiver, the INTP is so much more about enjoying the options than reaching the destination, and it’s almost inevitable for our Alchemists to geek out and show us the joy of information for its own sake.

Though they can hold their own as protagonists—often of idea stories as the sage scientist or librarian thrown into the action, having to use their know-how to maneuver situations with their knowledge of ancient runes or local customs—more often the Alchemist is found as part of a team, where they can bounce off of teammates. With a dry, snarky sense of humor and an often hidden childlike enthusiasm about their treasured ideas, the Alchemist doesn't find use in fakery and is at the ready to point out flaws in situational conclusions without a lot of sugar-coating. Though this might be a trait the Alchemist themselves may regret, as an audience there is something refreshing about a character who is willing to say it like it is, even to their friends. But what they often lack in tact, the Alchemist makes up for in dedication. No matter the time or tediousness required, when an Alchemist’s team needs their solutions, no one can pull them from their self-driven mission.

By nature, Dark Alchemists are nihilist. Though many INTPs lose perspective about the meaning in the world, as is their weakest area (Principles via Fe), an INTP turns villainous when they are threatened about their struggles to understand the world’s meaning to the point that they want to destroy that meaning for others. Usually intensely scary in their ability to cleverly and adaptively break the world around them, Dark Alchemists always have a principle bone to pick with the protagonist, bent on proving that the universe really works in the dark, meaningless way they try and demonstrate. Whether they don’t want anyone to be special, want to prove that all people are animals, or want to destroy the universe itself, they'll always be trying to prove, “That’s what people *do!*” or other oversimplified universal principles.

But INTPs need to realize that the questions that to them may seem unanswerable, of universal scale and importance, may come easily to other types whose minds prioritize the workings behind the universe, and INTPs need to remember once again that they don't need to do it all. To prevent from feeling like the world and life are meaningless, an INTP needs a good infrastructure of friends who respect and value their strengths, while still providing differing strengths to support a healthy Alchemist.

Alchemist or Dark Alchemist, a strong INTP is sure to be brilliantly good at whatever they choose to do, with the ability to see potential openings all around them and find solutions wherever they look.

Examples:
Male: TobyZiegler, The West Wing
Female: Dr. Jemma Simmons, Agents of Shield
Villain: The Joker, The Dark Knight

Thread link: http://http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=23882
 

EditorOne

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 3:52 PM
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,695
-->
Location
Northeastern Pennsylvania
I apparently have mastered faking confidence. :-)
 
Top Bottom