Grammar lessons

[Grayman]

To all who like to correct mistakes,

I am working on my horrible grammar, so if you have the time to correct me and want to call me an idiot I would like your help in the first and I will take care of the second.

You can stick corrections in here or PM me or do it in the middle of a discussion. Whatever you're willing to give is a blessing. I really appreciate your help in making me look less stupid.


Regards,


Grayman

PS I am being serious

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

I had the impression that, around the time i joined the forum,
you were very precise in your choice of words and not too sloppy with grammar,
but i must say, recently i have noticed a decline in those regards on your behalf.
Which begs the question: what happened?

 

[Pyropyro]

They're mobilizing Grayman!

[bimgx=500]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/344/833/2b1.jpg[/bimgx]

Seriously though, I think you handle grammar quite well.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Grammar Nazis?

 

[Pyropyro]

Grammar Nazis?

Yes because well... Why not?

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

I wish it was that simple.
But it's not.

 

[Grayman]

In some cases I am on my touchpad and am too lazy to use punctuation. Maybe I should just trust my initial instinct instead of trying so hard. I actually don't remember the rules. It was more instinctual until recently.

 

[Budthestud]

Here is a good lesson http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=19905

 

[OrLevitate]

I too have observed grayman's change. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it. The gray has reached the aspect of whether or not to give a shit, perhaps pushing the envelope in another direction, or ceasing to push in the other. What is life without whim? An ascetic dream, nay, a confining way. I believe it began after grayman the gray considered leaving the forum, and a new clarity in regards to his usage of the forum was achieved. Whatever the cause, I enjoy and look forward to your posts grayman.

 

[Rook]

PS must be PS:

 

[Grayman]

I too have observed grayman's change. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it. The gray has reached the aspect of whether or not to give a shit, perhaps pushing the envelope in another direction, or ceasing to push in the other. What is life without whim? An ascetic dream, nay, a confining way. I believe it began after grayman the gray considered leaving the forum, and a new clarity in regards to his usage of the forum was achieved. Whatever the cause, I enjoy and look forward to your posts grayman.

Thanks.

 

[Jennywocky]

To all who like to correct mistakes,

I am working on my horrible grammar, so if you have the time to correct me and want to call me an idiot I would like your help in the first and I will take care of the second.

You can stick corrections in here or PM me or do it in the middle of a discussion. Whatever you're willing to give is a blessing. I really appreciate your help in making me look less stupid.

Regards,
Grayman

PS I am being serious

I don't believe you, "once a month shower boy!" Your little ruse won't work!

 

[EditorOne]

I've spent most of my life scanning grammar, spelling, syntax, verbosity, all that good stuff, so I'll pass. These days, if I can understand what you're saying, I'm happy, and if I can't, I'll go read something else. So far as I can tell, posters in here are head-and-shoulders above the norm in everything except brevity.

 

[kris]

...so if you have the time to correct me and want to call me an idiot[,] I would like your help in...

If you lead with a subordinate clause, you should place a comma before the independent clause which follows. "If you have the time to help me, I would like your help."

 

[Grayman]

If you lead with a subordinate clause, you should place a comma before the independent clause which follows. "If you have the time to help me, I would like your help."

Thst is a good tip.

Thanks.

 

[kris]

As a matter of full disclosure, I work as a lobbyist on behalf of the comma industry. Pat Sajak may have built his fortune off of selling vowels at exorbitant prices to desperate game show contestants, but those of us in the industry know the real money is in punctuation marks.

 

[Grayman]

As a matter of full disclosure, I work as a lobbyist on behalf of the comma industry. Pat Sajak may have built his fortune off of selling vowels at exorbitant prices to desperate game show contestants, but those of us in the industry know the real money is in punctuation marks.

It seems, whoever said, "Talk is cheap!", was entirely wrong.

 

[StevenM]

If you lead with a subordinate clause, you should place a comma before the independent clause which follows. "If you have the time to help me, I would like your help."

It sounds better when stated: "If you have time, I would like your help"

 

[AngelOne]

I don't see anything wrong with your grammar. Even if there was something "wrong" with it, this is a forum and strict adherence to a set of grammar rules is neither necessary nor desired. As long as others understand what you're saying your grammar is fine. Also note that "perfect" grammar can be more difficult to read and understand than the grammar you use.

 

[kris]

Also note that "perfect" grammar can be more difficult to read and understand than the grammar you use.

How so?

 

[Base groove]

I don't see anything wrong with your grammar. Even if there was something "wrong" with it, this is a forum and strict adherence to a set of grammar rules is neither necessary nor desired. As long as others understand what you're saying your grammar is fine. Also note that "perfect" grammar can be more difficult to read and understand than the grammar you use.

But haven't you noticed Grayman's recent decline? In do time... in do time.

 

[AngelOne]

But haven't you noticed Grayman's recent decline? In do time... in do time.

Did you mean "due time?"

How so?

As an example, Duxwing uses what some might call "perfect" grammar and yet those posts are incomprehensible to me.

 

[Hawkeye]

Did you mean "due time?"

He did that on porpoise.

As an example, Duxwing uses what some might call "perfect" grammar and yet those posts are incomprehensible to me.

Duxwing types using an archaic form of grammar; a lot of the time he is unnecessarily long-winded, but that's how the Duxwing do.

There is no such thing as perfect grammar.

 

[Base groove]

It seems, whoever said, "Talk is cheap!", was entirely wrong.

There is no need for a comma in this^ sentence, let alone 3.

On a positive note, you did make the proper choice in saying "whoever" instead of "whomever", in this case.

 

[Variform]

To all who like to correct mistakes,

I am working on my horrible grammar, so if you have the time to correct me and want to call me an idiot I would like your help in the first and I will take care of the second.

You can stick corrections in here or PM me or do it in the middle of a discussion. Whatever you're willing to give is a blessing. I really appreciate your help in making me look less stupid.


Regards,


Grayman

PS I am being serious

First sentence is unfinished. Sentences are ended with a '.'.

You could go with: 'To all who like to correct mistakes; I am working on...'

Not sure about the comma before "so". Because 'so' already implies a comma as it were, so the comma would be redundant. But English isn't my first language so I may be wrong. See how I didn't put a comma there? In Dutch there is never a comma after 'and'.

The "or" between and "PM" is redundant but it could be a style issue rather than one of grammar.

It is very hard to write perfectly. I've given it up. I have to say that these text field in-line corrections have pretty much killed off my pretty good spelling of old. I have become sloppy and lazy.

 

[Hawkeye]

First sentence is unfinished. Sentences are ended with a '.'.

You could go with: 'To all who like to correct mistakes; I am working on...'

Not sure about the comma before "so". Because 'so' already implies a comma as it were, so the comma would be redundant. But English isn't my first language so I may be wrong. See how I didn't put a comma there? In Dutch there is never a comma after 'and'.

The "or" between and "PM" is redundant but it could be a style issue rather than one of grammar.

It is very hard to write perfectly. I've given it up. I have to say that these text field in-line corrections have pretty much killed off my pretty good spelling of old. I have become sloppy and lazy.

Actually, a comma in the opening sentence is perfectly fine. He wrote it in letter format and was addressing it to a particular audience.

The comma before so is also okay because so is a conjunction like but.

A comma used with and is known as an Oxford Comma and is used to reduce ambiguity.

That being said, the example at the bottom should really use a colon.






Another example:

 

[kris]

First sentence is unfinished. Sentences are ended with a '.'.

You could go with: 'To all who like to correct mistakes; I am working on...'

It's a formatting thing. The first line is a form of address similar to how you would begin a written letter (or an email, these days).

Dear Person,

Blah blah blah blah bla...

Not sure about the comma before "so".

In most cases in English, you place a comma prior to coordinating conjunctions when they join independent clauses. The comma is derived from a punctuation mark which acted as a breath mark. Some current comma usage is probably a holdover from when we marked brief pauses between speech elements. I'd like to say it makes perfect sense [minor pause] but to some extent it's just a matter of convention; with or without the comma, speakers will pause or not pause based on context and their own speaking habits.

The "or" between and "PM" is redundant but it could be a style issue rather than one of grammar.

This point is correct on both counts.

 

[AngelOne]

He did that on porpoise.

Oh. I see - it was a joke! Unfortunately, I don't get jokes like that. Thanks for spelling it out for me.

Duxwing types using an archaic form of grammar; a lot of the time he is unnecessarily long-winded, but that's how the Duxwing do.

There is no such thing as perfect grammar.

Point taken. I stand corrected.

 

[Variform]

Actually, a comma in the opening sentence is perfectly fine. He wrote it in letter format and was addressing it to a particular audience.

The comma before so is also okay because so is a conjunction like but.

A comma used with and is known as an Oxford Comma and is used to reduce ambiguity.

That being said, the example at the bottom should really use a colon.






Another example:

That is interesting. However, - though this is likely one of those deep-in-the-trenches-of-language sort of thing - to me as a non-English native speaker, the pictures are wrong. It might depend on whether it will be spoken or not. But if you read it out loud, you will emphasize what is needed to avoid ambiguity. To me, reading it to myself, I would not make the mistake suggested. I think the Oxford comma is redundant. So that is the first part of it.

The second part of the picture about strippers is also wrong. Because if the strippers were indeed JFK and Stalin, no comma would be heard. So, no audible break between strippers and Stalin.

Also, in the first part, the first comma makes it clear to me that it is a listing. As such, I know after reading 'strippers, JFK' more listed 'items' might appear. And that strippers and JFK are different from each other, leading me on to understand that it is a varied list.

I think this comes down to reading comprehension and the Oxford comma is based not on ambiguity but on lack of reading skill.

In the second picture you can see how the maker of the picture does not understand the word 'and' very well. He seems to think that the word 'and' connects toast and orange juice to be the same thing, mixed into a mental image of a drink on toast.

But that is illogical thinking that is not a matter of ambiguity. No one in their right mind would see that mental image, so to suggest it would is based on nothing.

It could be an English thing but in my language it would not cause some short circuit in the brain. Because language is not just a formal thing, it is also an understanding of culture. And no one puts orange juice on toast.

 

[Hawkeye]

The thing is, the prime definition of and is:

to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences, that are to be taken jointly, e.g., bread and butter.

It is only because of familiarity that you know orange juice is not supposed to go on toast; however, if I introduced a statement you were unfamiliar with, ambiguity in the meaning could arise, but not always.




Check out the statement below:

These items are available in black and white, red and yellow and blue and green.

Using an Oxford Comma separates them (perhaps more clearly?).

These items are available in black and white, red and yellow, and blue and green.

Also, you could differentiate with the use of an &

These items are available in black & white, red & yellow and blue & green.


Either way, all three are correct and I guess it boils down to personal preference.

 

[Godofdogs]

eye hav da parfact grammur.

 

[Godofdogs]

To all who like to correct mistakes,

I am working on my horrible grammar, so if you have the time to correct me and want to call me an idiot, I would like your help in the first and I will take care of the second.

You can stick corrections in here or PM me or do it in the middle of a discussion. Whatever you're willing to give is a blessing. I really appreciate your help in making me look less stupid.


Regards,


Grayman

PS: I am being serious

Thst is a good tip.

Thanks.

*This.

It seems, whoever said, "Talk is cheap!", was entirely wrong.

The comma highlighted in red is unnecessary.

 

[Hawkeye]

The comma highlighted in red, is unnecessary.

^^

 

[Grayman]

*This.



The comma highlighted in red is unnecessary.

I was trying to implement the comma between the two clauses as stated earlier.

"It seems, whoever said..."

 

[kris]

I was trying to implement the comma between the two clauses as stated earlier.

"It seems, whoever said..."

You don't always use a comma between clauses. It comes down to the type of clause, the order of clauses, and the type of conjunction used.

 

[Grayman]

But haven't you noticed Grayman's recent decline? In do time... in do time.

Thanks for the heads up, although subtle.