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Forgive but can't forget.

IfloatTHRUlife

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Do any of you ever feel like you are are a victim of your own logic? There are times when i know i should be angry, and probably at least say something, but i refrain because before i can get mad enough to say something, i stop myself because i come to the conclusion i am just overreacting.

It isn't exactly a bad thing to have a little self control, but after going so long without ever seriously speaking out about things i have strong feelings about, i have developed this slightly passive aggressive way of dealing with my problems.

I will go about things as if i am not bothered by them, when in reality there are a few things (one in particular) that... well, i cant even explain how i feel.. anger, resentment, insecurity.. just so much negativity that i cant even process complete thoughts. The one thing in particular, i have forgiven the person, but i still have the same negative feelings, and they arent even directed at the person, they are just.. there, which just ends up confusing and irritating me. It makes me want to just sit and discuss it with the person, maybe try to just get rid of those feelings, but then i just come back to feeling like i am overreacting and dont say anything because it would only drudge up things that i would rather not.

Maybe i am just a psychopath? I dont know :storks: Damn this brain of mine!
 

digital angel

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I doubt you're a psychopath. Have you tried writing about it? Would it help you to know that the past is the past and you're not defined by it. You can move forward and never look back.

Some people seek closure and that's ok. Others do not and that's ok too.
 

snafupants

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whatever this negative entity is, why not leave it in the past? that might be easier said than done, but there is no mandate for you having to feel this way. people make mistakes, you make mistakes, i make mistakes, this person may have made a mistake. you obviously understand the context of what happened more than i do, so look at that and ask whether whatever happened exemplifies this person enough for you to carve some distance between the two of you. if you feel you may be overreacting, talk to someone you trust about it and seek their opinion, and then move forward. that part where you say the feelings are not directed at the person per se makes me think that the act more than the person irritates you. usually, and this may sound cliche, but usually when something gets under our skin, it touches on a trait we don't like in ourselves and that we don't want to deal with now. what we end up doing is making that undesirable trait a thing of ridicule, object not subject, to give us some more time to process. this processing can go on indefinitely.
 

shoeless

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i would definitely advocate talking to this person. of course, i don't know the situation, but all i can say is this: having been the person to cause those feelings of resentment, insecurity, etc. to somebody i love very dearly, i know that if they are actually sorry for what they did, and if they actually care about you at all, they will listen and try to help you feel better however they can. present your emotions in a calm way; don't yell or throw a tantrum, just say "i'm not angry at you but i still feel x about y and need support" (of course it might sound awkward if you phrase it exactly like that, but you get what i mean).

so yeah. no use bottling things up, beating yourself up, disconnecting yourself. it's unhealthy. it's never worth it.
 

IfloatTHRUlife

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Well, i never really intended to make this a thread about my problem, i intended to see if any other INTPs have problems with their own rationality stopping them from being angry or standing up for themselves etc. But if it must be this way, that is okay also.

Like i said before though, i resolved the problem as soon as it happened. I was immensely hurt, but i wasnt going to let that stop me from being rational about what happened. Like the thread title says, i forgive the person for what happened, but i just cant get over the fact that it happened, i cant make myself forget. It was the first time i had ever experienced heartbreak.

I have tried talking to the person about it a few times but i dont even know what to say or what to ask since i dont even know what it is that i need to hear to just.. feel better and forget. And the person i am talking about, tends to just pull away and isolate themselves when confronted with something that upsets them or makes them uncomfortable, so i couldn't sit and have a serious conversation about it regardless.
 

sammael

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Well, i never really intended to make this a thread about my problem, i intended to see if any other INTPs have problems with their own rationality stopping them from being angry or standing up for themselves etc.

I can relate to what you're saying, I have been in a very similar situation in the past. Although generally I don't have problems with expressing myself, or standing up for myself, I never have, but it can happen. If I am particularly angry /emotional I will remove myself from the situation immediately, until I've calmed down and had time to think things through, then I will usually try to resolve the problem. Although I still/also view emotional displays as overreacting.

I do think my rationality suppresses my emotions, it would make sense to be an INTP thing. I cannot stand the thought of losing control in an emotional sense, or exploding, and although I have felt anger so strong I have wanted to lash out, even physically, I can always control it. I think somehow it's both chained subconsciously, and I can exert conscious control over myself as well, being that I desire and value self control.

I think the principles behind it are the same for both of us, just perhaps slightly different situations. I actually have had a similar experience.. when I was 19 I fell in love with this girl. We spent a glorious summer (summer is December-February here in NZ) together, we had this amazing chemistry and just seemed to click. But as the new year got under way we had to go back to our lives, and she lived quite far from where I was. That gave me time to think, and I realised we actually weren't very compatible, and wouldn't last forever. We had different values, beliefs, and desires from life. I was genuinely in love with her, that was not an easy decision for me to make. It was just like.. Amidst the flashing lights, music and excitement of the night everything was perfect, but in the cold light of dawn, the truth was revealed. I hadn't seen her for about a month, and one day we had a fight on the phone. Then we didn't talk for a few days, and I realised that what we'd had was gone. So I ended it. And broke my heart in the process. To give you some idea of what it was like, it took me almost a year to get over her. Emotionless INTP huh :confused: Anyway, not long after we broke up she calls me up and she's crying, but she won't tell me what's going on. I tell her we'll be friends forever, and I'll always be there for her. I found out a little later from someone else she'd cheated on me just before we broke up with her ex boyfriend, who happened to be in a relationship at the time, and everyone had gone off at my ex, blaming her. Now, I have no doubt that was a bit unfair, and pretty rough on her. But I was far from being over her, and the knowledge that she'd cheated was like kicking me when I was down. I have never felt worse in my life. But guess what..? I rationalised everything, and actually took her side. Perhaps it was I cared about her too much, perhaps it was because I managed to understand through my rationalism her perspective. I forgave her, never really expressed my feelings about it to her. I was even supporting her, although I was hurting. But like you, I couldn't get over it, and couldn't forget. There was nothing she could say that would make any difference. And just like you, I suppressed my feelings, I didn't want to overact. I didn't want to drudge up the past. Resolution came only with time, and that seemed to take forever. I like to think I'm wiser now, that wisdom is the sometimes bitter gift of experience.

You're not crazy, I was in the same place once. I completely understand how you feel, and where you're coming from. Sometimes life just sucks, and gets out of control. I think as INTP-s we like to be in control, sometimes that's just not possible. In all honesty I don't know how I would act differently if the same thing happened now. Time does help, although I know that's not much solace.
 

IfloatTHRUlife

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Indeed, my situation is not exactly that severe though. I am still with the girl, and she never entirely cheated on me, she was just in a situation where she had a lapse in judgement and it never went further than having kissed this guy. Me and her have been in a long distance relationship for 2 years now, and when this happened she was in japan with other students in a study abroad program. We didnt get to talk much while she was there and when we did, i was pretty ignorant towards her because i never liked the idea of her going to begin with. So while she was going through this amazing experience, meeting these new people, learning all these new things, going to all these amazing places, i was pushing her away. So it is mostly my fault, i was pushing away and this guy was there to take advantage while she was vulnerable.

We are still together and our two year anniversary will be on the 12th of next month, like i said before i dont hold it against her, i understand why everything happened and i think it only brought us closer. It made me realize that not everything is forever, things can go wrong that i dont have control over and i just have to accept that and do what i can to make things right, and she learned how serious i am about this relationship, and that i am not going to give up just because she made one mistake.

Also, i have been thinking a lot today since i made this thread and i have came to the simple conclusion that i am just insecure because i am afraid i will never be able to live up to her expectations. The guy this happened with was a med student who comes from a family with a lot of money. The only real problem me and her have is that i am not in college, and i cant find a job where i live. In order to be together i need to not only get a job, i also need to move from the tiny town i live in, to New York. This is all very stressful on me since i really want to make it happen, but it has been so long and i still havent even found a job yet. After all this time she is starting to lose faith in me and i am struggling to just hold on until i can at least get something started to prove that i can do it. The thing is, my only true motivation is her, and sometimes i just feel like her heart isnt entirely in it any more, i know she still loves me but i just need her to be on the same level as me, the less faith she has in me the deeper i fall into depression which only makes it harder and harder to get things done. I am just afraid that one day all of this will snowball out of control one day and i will lose her.

Anyway, whether anyone reads this or not, at least i feel better. Typing things out like this makes it easier for me to organize my thoughts instead of just having them flying back and forth in my head until i feel like i am losing my mind.

Everyone, feel free to continue to contribute. Would be best if what you contribute were a little less depressing though :phear: It doesnt have to be about girlfriends. This happens to me nearly every time i get angry, over anything, and i get the feeling it happens to others, so bring on the examples.
 

Da Blob

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try this... Instead of blaming an Other for one's own pain, attribute that pain as being caused by one's own imperfections. Get angry at one's self for not being perfect for a short time, then get over it by forgiving one's self for not being perfect.

This works for some, especially if followed up by a concerted effort to find and eliminate the imperfection that proved to be a vulnerability. Experience is a bitter way to learn wisdom, but if one is not wise enough to learn from mistakes, then the bitter way will lead to a bitter end instead.

Of course, one can be totally victimized by an Other and pain can be rightly attributed to that person. However, doing so is something of a dead end, for what are the options, but plotting revenge or becoming comfortable in one's 'victimhood'?

For lack of power, one can't change those who cause us pain for the better and why would one wish to do so, anyway? There is a slim chance, however, that one can garner the power to change one's own self for the better after a negative experience.

"Not Forgiving" is a waste of time and effort, often a poor investment of paying to Others, focusing on THEM, in the currency of attention - instead of spending that denomination of attention upon one's own self... IMHO
 

cheese

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Oh god, I know what you mean. I don't know how to fix it - still working on that - but I thought I'd help you feel a little less alone. I think perhaps the emotions just need to be let out? Even if you can rationalise them away, emotions of that strength generally manifest physically - racing heartbeat, cold sweat, twisting stomach, etc - so it isn't something you can just rationalise away that easily. Perhaps you need to get rid of that excess energy instead of burying it, because it DOES have a way of sneaking back into your actions and perverting them (passive-aggression etc).

I'm not sure the best way to do this though. Screaming or hitting something, while you're alone so no one gets hurt, seems like a fairly good idea. But sometimes the buggers just won't be satisfied unless you confront the person they're about. You may just need to say, "I forgive you, I understand, I still love you and I still want to be with you - but I'm really angry/hurt and I don't know what to do about it." You need to validate them somehow or they will keep distorting things in your life. That's been my experience anyway. Sometimes even just coming out and saying how you feel - even if you think the feelings are wrong - helps dissolve them. We're crazy, I know.

In terms of actual forgetting - I don't know. But I'm guessing the forgetting you're talking about has a lot more to do with emotional residue you can't get rid of, than actual mental forgetting. If you can get to the point where you can remember the fact but not have it dredge up any painful emotion, then you've got it.
 

GYX_Kid

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you could always hunt them down and assault them wearing a mask
 

IfloatTHRUlife

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The time for assault may come, and it may not. If this day does come, it shall be a glorious day, but i have little hope of ever meeting my target.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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There are alternatives to either lashing out or keeping it bottled up.

Like you could, you know, talk to the person about it?
 
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I do this a lot. And I think it is unhealthy.

My brother-in-law (defacto...) got married, and invited all the other in-laws families, except mine. I didn't realise until I was at the wedding that the others had been invited. I was furious at first. I went outside to think about it, and calmed down. They can invite whoever they want, it's not such a big deal to make waves at someones 'special day' etc. I resolved to approach them at a later point.
Instead, I asked my mother-in-law about it. I avoid conflict as a rule, and rationalised it, and let it go.
The sister-in-law got married. Same thing.
The younger brother got married. Same thing. By now I am outraged, but on the principle of fairness, why make a big deal of his, when I didn't for the others...

This issue gets me very emotional at times. The longer term consequences are that I know all of their stupid families but my family has been essentially excluded from this extended family. I think this reflects on how much they really value me. The thought of my own wedding makes me think of these things, and I get too angry to do anything about organising one. (8 years engaged and counting). Anytime I get mad at any of them this boils just below the surface. I fear it will burst out one day in a nasty way, and create some kind of rift, which would devastate my ESTJ partner. (And I get mad at him for not doing more about it too).

More broadly, I lose friends (aquaintances who could have become friends I guess) like this has rather than go with my emotions I rationalise, I don't confront them etc but actually what I do is walk away, close myself off to them (if I have opened up at all) and move on.

This is a problem area for me, big time.
:evil:
 

Gentlemen

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Funny, I read this forum sometimes but have never posted before, but I was planning to post a thread quite similar to this and I log on and see this thread. So in the interest of not clogging the forum with whining I'll post my story here.

I definitely share your feelings OP. Recently, when I went to study abroad, my girlfriend of a year and a half, with whom I was infatuated, broke up with me and I later found out that she's been dating another of my friends while I've been away. I didn't act angry when she broke up with me or when she told me about dating my friend, in fact I stayed perfectly calm, told her no hard feelings, and wished her well. But inside I have never felt this awful in my entire life.

I have spent the past few weeks since I found out she was dating my friend (indicating it's over forever with us, at first she had told me she would consider the possibility of getting back together when I return) thinking logically about the situation from every possible angle, and on that level I fully understand and accept what happened. I realize that even though I liked being around her a lot, much of that affection was probably misguided, and thinking about it objectively there are some major differences in personality and priorities that make it a good thing we aren't together anymore. And I don't really hold it against my friend to date her after she was single, either.

Still, I just can't help feeling terrible a lot of the time, and I can't make it go away. I keep most people at a distance and typically don't feel attached to people very easily, so I think it's a huge blow to the ego finally letting someone in and really caring about them and then being rejected and replaced by one of my friends. Something reminds me of her, and I torture myself by remembering good times we had and thinking about how they'll never happen again or she'll have them with someone else, or I go into self-pity mode and start to get mad at them. Normally I have such firm control of my feelings, but lately I just go into these spirals of depression and can't seem to contain it, and it makes me miserable.

What's worst is that since we've spent most of college together almost all of our friends are mutual, so if I want to see the rest of my friends when I go back I pretty much have to be around them. I really never lose my cool externally and the last thing I want to do is act angry with her, but I'm worried I won't be able to stop myself from getting depressed inside if I have to see them together. One of the above posters said it took him a year to get over a relationship that went sour; that kind of prospect terrifies me because all I want to do is go back to simply not feeling anything like I used to be able to before I met her.

Wow that was long, I think I just needed to get that out. Anyway solidarity OP and others, I think for people like us who are normally in control of our emotions these times can be particularly awful. I'd certainly like to hear your opinions on what I should do when I go back, the decision between avoiding the two of them and being able to hang out with my group of friends is really weighing on me...
 
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Hi Gentlemen, I see that is your first post, I am new too and wish you welcome.

Wish I could help but you see I have issues with this kinda stuff too. I would just say that it has been a mistake for me not to express my feelings when I have felt wronged. I can imagine myself not expressing myself in your situation, and thus turning my back on my friends, but that is not really a good outcome. Potentially, either is making your friends choosing sides.

I can understand letting someone in close which is a big deal and feeling rejected, it's deeper than being rejected by someone who doesn't know you. This in no way invalidates the 'you' inside. At the end of the day, there was clearly a mismatch between you two somewhere and you are better off this way even if you don't feel so. Unfortunately this happens to people all the time and you are not alone in feeling this way.

Now I've gone and made two rather large assumptions about things I know little. Good luck when you go back.
 

Causeless

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Present your emotions in a calm way; don't yell or throw a tantrum, just say "i'm not angry at you but i still feel x about y and need support" (of course it might sound awkward if you phrase it exactly like that, but you get what i mean)

Funny plus I notice though is that (Because I've taken to doing this, actually.) when you present your feelings in such a straightforward and honest/awkward matter, it catches people SO off-guard that their reaction can rarely be hostile. (Most often confused and curious.)

Then again, there are people who just automatically react to any idea or reality that confuses them with hostility, but I tend not to associate with those people.
 

Reverse Transcriptase

"you're a poet whether you like it or not"
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Funny plus I notice though is that (Because I've taken to doing this, actually.) when you present your feelings in such a straightforward and honest/awkward matter, it catches people SO off-guard that their reaction can rarely be hostile. (Most often confused and curious.)

Then again, there are people who just automatically react to any idea or reality that confuses them with hostility, but I tend not to associate with those people.

Yeah. People tend to like to be nice. They will force themselves to be so, out of general politeness. Which is nice.

And as for your second part: Yup, people have got unhealthy amounts of confirmation bias. :D
 

pjoa09

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Hm I don't have that problem, but a sociopath is a psychopath is a sexually promiscuous apathetic charming deceitful person.

The only emotional issue I had resulted in me writing 6 pages worth of blabber that was later deleted.

It still sticks though. But I refuse to contact them. I wish there was something they could say that would make me forget.

I guess it's the lack of stimulus.

2 years. It ought to be over by now.
But it's not.

Good Luck.
 
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