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"F.I.R.E." versus Serial Innovation versus B-Corporation

Tenacity

More than methods to the madness
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In the case you haven't heard of it, F.I.R.E. = "Financial independence, retire early".
  • People take different paths to earn a certain financial goal which they can comfortably retire on.
  • This amount varies completely from one person to the next, but can be calculable based on location and other variables.
  • Working stable 9 to 5s and then proceeding to be extremely frugal is one common method, with the sentiment seeming to be that one can then upon reaching the goal call it quits on all financial obligations in life.
  • The contrast to this method is "fat" F.I.R.E. where you have more flexibility for participating in consumerist culture like what appears to be the rest of the world.
Now, contrast F.I.R.E. to Serial Innovation, where the innovator's "brainchildren" become pathways to [insert word for whatever you want to accomplish out of said innovation].
  • For the typical startup, risk is extremely high, can be highly volatile, susceptible to massive burn rates the more sticky / higher the growth rate. Profit generation is one possible desire and outcome, yet, while it makes sense to idealize profit generation as once of the main goals, the harsh reality is that if upon building for innovation, the path to profitability is much easier said than done, and will always take longer than originally anticipated, and this type of startup tends to disallow for co-ambitions of F.I.R.E. on a first attempt.
  • For a solo innovator, it may be more alluring to de-risk innovations via crowdfunding or self-funding that would otherwise be allocated for F.I.R.E. or basic physiological needs of survival.
Now, drill down from Serial Innovation to B-Corps, which in America are essentially like, startups and nonprofits had a baby.
  • The ratio of how much the company leans towards one side or the other depends entirely on the company's values.
  • The restriction to B-Corps is that a founder is tied to ethical/moral grounds of the promise of the vision originally stated, typically -over- conventional startup wisdom (i.e. "bigger numbers are better" mentality + financial ROI).
  • Because of this, one can easily see how B-Corps could be doomed to fail if a board member overvalued the attachment to something that was pronounced as core to the corporation's mission statement.
  • Yet, with increasing speculation on the corruption of wealth accumulation and/or misuse of control within companies, some B-Corps have still made it possible to keep to a stable and high growth existence, especially with the popularity of crowdfunding, etc., filling in where government has not.
  • B-Corps have also grown to exist also to weed out greed-centric investors and/or the impact of greed within investors.
Feel free to extrapolate in your own way, and/or answer or use one or several of these questions:
  1. What would you pick if you could pick one or more of these?
  2. Why would you pick that/that combination? How is it consistent with the trajectory of your life?
  3. Why are the ones you didn't pick incongruent with the trajectory of your life?
  4. If the way I defined these are different from your perspective, what is your perspective? Is this a function of your nation or generation, or, why does this view differ from the above?
  5. What are the differences between the motivations behind each of these?
  6. What are the differences between the outcomes of each of these?
  7. What are the outcomes of any combination of these?
  8. Which one seems most satisfying to you?
  9. If you are planning to go in one of these directions, what is the timeline you are setting for yourself?
 

Cognisant

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Now, drill down from Serial Innovation to B-Corps, which in America are essentially like, startups and nonprofits had a baby.
Is that those fucks who bother me on the street about donating to whatever charity is paying them this week? Absolute scum.

What would you pick if you could pick one or more of these?
Serial innovation, although I also have a relatively small mortgage and a healthy superannuation account because I'm crazy not stupid.

Why would you pick that/that combination? How is it consistent with the trajectory of your life?
I could aim to retire early by saving well and being frugal but that seems really depressing, just waiting to die.

Why are the ones you didn't pick incongruent with the trajectory of your life?
I believe brain-computer interfaces and some degree of life extension will be available in the relatively near term future so I don't plan on retiring. Instead I want to live as long as possible in hope of living long enough where advancements in life extension catch up with and surpass the rate of senescence.
Or that doesn't work out and I die as I was going to anyway.

If the way I defined these are different from your perspective, what is your perspective? Is this a function of your nation or generation, or, why does this view differ from the above?
As time passes more people seem to think the same way I do, being born in 1990 I grew up witnessing the internet going from being a novelty to an essential utility. From phones being landlines, to brick cellphones, to flip phones, to smart phones. From cancer being this untreatable death sentence that took my grandparents to my mother having cancer and beating it. Honestly some of the stuff on the horizon blows me away, apparently actual holograms are a thing now, I didn't think unsupported holograms were possible.

If you are planning to go in one of these directions, what is the timeline you are setting for yourself?
I thought I'd be done by now but life got in the way and its been more difficult than I ever could have imagined, it's so easy to get lost in the details.

I figured that the surest path to life extension is to negate the possibility of cascading organ failure, consider each of the organs in your body as part of an overall life support system which are themselves dependent upon that system functioning properly. When you're young and healthy that isn't a problem, your organs are excessively capable for their roles so even if one or two aren't working quite right the overall health of the system can be maintained. However as time passes and damage accumulates eventually there comes a point where the life support system itself isn't working 100% and at that point your body goes into a systemic death spiral. A shoddy heart means other organs are deprived of oxygen and nutrients, unable to perform properly the liver can't break down all the toxins, the kidneys can't filter out all the waste, your poisoned blood impairs your heart further and so the cascade continues and accelerates.

The human body is amazingly resilient so by the time someone is obviously dying they're already completely fucked, if you've been at the bedside of a dying person you'll know the stench of death on their breath, it's unmistakable, it's the smell of rotting meat.

So the surest path to life extension is to take as many of these life supporting bodily functions as possible and outsource them to machinery that can have layers of redundancy and maintenance procedures. There are already machines that do this, heart/lung machines, dialysis machines, methods for feeding people by injecting nutrients directly into their blood, machines for regulating hormone levels. They're not all portable but they don't need to be portable, rather than trying to rebuild the human body it's far more practical to connect the brain to a stationary life support system and have it interact with the world through a remote controlled robot via a brain-computer interface.

Medical technology is far too expensive for me to get involved with but making the remote controlled robot (a telepresence machine) that I can do and if I'm lucky I can get a significant market share before the use of such things becomes mainstream. I've been working on it for a long time now, I've got pretty much all the parts designed (though I like to revise endlessly), I got the lathe because getting individual parts made at a machine shop can cost several hundred dollars per part. I'd hoped to start building this year but at best after my trip to Japan I'll be able to make a few parts, it really doesn't help that I'm still waiting on the four jaw chuck I ordered in August and to actually make anything on a lathe you need loads of accessories to hold the work piece the right way and perform the right cuts.

So I'm closer than I've ever been but still far off.
 

Tenacity

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Is that those fucks who bother me on the street about donating to whatever charity is paying them this week? Absolute scum.
Not literally, but you could conceive of that being the case figuratively if a B-Corp is super mission-driven at all costs.

It's more like:
Say Company A produces typical consumer goods, huge retail markups exist due to marketing and distribution, is huge in size and inefficient, etc. that makes pricing >= 300% markup.

Say Company B is an alternative: minimalist (i.e. no fancy marketing needed) high quality products at much closer to cost of manufacturing than retail, cost-savings get passed down to the consumer, and greater concern for things like minimizing waste, reusability, reduction of negative net externalities, etc. ~15% - 35% markup depending on what's needed, end result is competitively low pricing. Small team, "agile". Cuts out the middle man and other un-essential processes.

Company B in this case is more likely to be a B-Corp due to the type of customer loyalty / personas. In America this is a small but emerging market driven by a bunch of indie types, very new practice, yet I think it has potential. Of course it is not necessary for Company B to actually be a B-Corp, they can still be a C-Corp or even an LLC however that would mean a faster path/higher probability of evolving towards having the values of Company A.

Point is, for B-Corps, net positive external impact > ROI as long as ROI is enough to keep things moving.

In ultra-innovative companies I can see B-Corps generally not being a good fit due to comparatively slower rate of change in growth and the constant need to be flexible. However, I think I can see it as a good alternative to people born with a nonprofit inclination.

What do you see wrong with charity / altruism?


I thought I'd be done by now but life got in the way and its been more difficult than I ever could have imagined, it's so easy to get lost in the details.
Same...

They're not all portable but they don't need to be portable, rather than trying to rebuild the human body it's far more practical to connect the brain to a stationary life support system and have it interact with the world through a remote controlled robot via a brain-computer interface.
I believe brain-computer interfaces and some degree of life extension will be available in the relatively near term future so I don't plan on retiring. Instead I want to live as long as possible in hope of living long enough where advancements in life extension catch up with and surpass the rate of senescence.
Or that doesn't work out and I die as I was going to anyway.

How long do you suppose we'd extend our lifetimes with life extension?
What kind of experimentation is necessary before it becomes something available for embodiment without high risk of fatality, or fatality of partial bodily functions we've become accustomed to?

I found that video insightful.

Btw, what do you think about the fact that Musk got a monkey to control a computer with its' brain, and is planning to be able to read neural spikes in a human in a minimally invasive way via laser beams opposed to drilling holes in the skull supposedly by end of 2020? That is his ambition, at least.
 

Ex-User (14663)

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I find most prospects for doing a startup disagreeable for the reasons I find the B-corp idea completely disagreeable; when you're doing a business that sells something (whether it's product or service), even if you created that business yourself, you have to answer to a bunch of idiots out there – clients, investors, the needs and demands of the market etc. My ideal is to act unilaterally and independently of anyone's expectations and opinions, for example being a professional gambler (which I was at one point and I know what that feels like – it's pretty awesome (and no, I didn't stop because I lost all my money (it was more like me succumbing to group mentality by choosing a more 'normal' career))).

so to address OP, to me the 9-5 option is actually best, because that means you can work on the unilateral part while having a constant stream of cash. It's even better if the 9-5 is somehow related to, or integrated with, the unilateral part in terms of domain of skills and knowledge.
 

Cognisant

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Say Company A produces typical consumer goods, huge retail markups exist due to marketing and distribution, is huge in size and inefficient, etc. that makes pricing >= 300% markup.
Marketing and distribution benifit from increased efficiency as the scale of an operation increases, you can put signage your trucks which are then effectively free mobile billboards and that's just one example.

Say Company B is an alternative: minimalist (i.e. no fancy marketing needed) high quality products at much closer to cost of manufacturing than retail, cost-savings get passed down to the consumer, and greater concern for things like minimizing waste, reusability, reduction of negative net externalities, etc. ~15% - 35% markup depending on what's needed, end result is competitively low pricing. Small team, "agile". Cuts out the middle man and other un-essential processes.
So "B" stands for better?
I think you're comparing apples and oranges, being smaller doesn't make a company more efficient.

Point is, for B-Corps, net positive external impact > ROI as long as ROI is enough to keep things moving.
Uhuh so like soccer moms making overpriced scented candles in mason jars and selling them on Facebook? It's all natural, we don't add nasty chemicals, you can reuse the jars so it's environmentally friendly, and so on and so forth.

They're not more efficient or sustainable or whatever, it's just marketing using "big businesses are evil" as leverage.
 

Tenacity

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Marketing and distribution benifit from increased efficiency as the scale of an operation increases, you can put signage your trucks which are then effectively free mobile billboards and that's just one example.
It all depends really, was just giving an example for understanding

So "B" stands for better?
I think you're comparing apples and oranges, being smaller doesn't make a company more efficient.
It stands for "Public Benefit", so there is an additional amendment in company formation with the addition of the term "purpose" in addition to profit.
Ignore the size aspect, I'm simply describing the current state of realities as it stands.
Uhuh so like soccer moms making overpriced scented candles in mason jars and selling them on Facebook? It's all natural, we don't add nasty chemicals, you can reuse the jars so it's environmentally friendly, and so on and so forth.

They're not more efficient or sustainable or whatever, it's just marketing using "big businesses are evil" as leverage.
What you describe here is generally different - that would be more like a "sustainable" SMB (small to medium business) not a startup that has a scalable business model built in with intention to eventually become a unicorn (1B valuation)
 

Cognisant

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What do you see wrong with charity / altruism?
The people I referred to earlier aren't charities they're parasites who use charities to make a profit.

That being said there are a lot of private charities where a significant percentage of the donations go to "administration" costs like executive bonuses and benefits.

I think social security is a service best provided by the government, that is why it's called the public service after all, unfortunately we're at a point late stage capitalism where many governments around the world are inefficient and corrupt.
 

Tenacity

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I think social security is a service best provided by the government, that is why it's called the public service after all, unfortunately we're at a point late stage capitalism where many governments around the world are inefficient and corrupt.

I agree. This is precisely why B-Corps were conceived in 2006 so it really has only been less than 4 years since inception - Anyone doing a B-Corp is mostly doing it on nearly experimental grounds, it introduces too much complexity with incorporation and growth so most people stay away from it. There is a certain niche for it where if you somehow maximize the ROI per customer acquisition there is potential, really the problem I think is that those who want to do nonprofits are lack in the education of what it takes to enable a company to survive - To then even handle a B-Corp only makes sense if a set of investor relationships already exist within the niche.
 

Cognisant

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Alright home now, brought myself up to speed with some googling.

Okay so it's a kind of certificate not unlike the Australian made/owned golden kangaroo and the Heart Foundation red tick, I think such certifications are a good idea for giving consumers a trustworthy third party to verify the qualities of a product. What I especially like about this is that it's potentially resistant to lobbying as the companies that provide the certifications have no inherent incentive to risk the integrity of their certifications.

However I wouldn't trust them to be self-regulating, governments should demand such certifications be licensed with the government and subject to annual auditing to prevent anti-competitive practices and inherent conflicts of interest. Now this licensing would be a pain in the ass for the certification providers but passing such licensing requirements further solidifies their reputations and they're basically getting money for providing what really ought to be a public service so they have no right to complain.

I have reservations against B-Corp specifically and rather than attacking that specifically I'm instead going to skip to the heart of the issue and explain how I decide what ought to be a public vs private service. Both governments and corporations are inherently self interested however that self interest takes different forms.

For a corporation self-interest is defined by profitability and market share, they are inherently competitive as they have to be forever ready to defend themselves from any and all challengers and adapt to ever changing circumstances. This is why a corporation can never be allowed to achieve an unassailable monopoly, under such circumstances the interests of the company (which are now assured) give way to the interests of the individuals within the company, individuals who only got where they are by being highly competitive. This invariably results in unchecked profiteering, cronyism, infighting, stagnation, the degradation of products/services and values, exploitation, and finally outright theft just before it all comes crashing down.

This is essentially what happened to the Japanese economy, after being rebuilt economically in the post WWII period the Japanese government seeking to be as competitive as possible on the global market introduced policies of corporate protectionism and other anti-competitive practices. Certain large companies in Japan became effectively government backed, the idea being that they would then go forth and conquer the world economically which for about a decade they did. Then it all came crashing down as those monolithic neigh mega-corporations imploded (indeed this period is where the concept of a "mega-corporation" came from) due to suppressed innovation and systemic incompetence due to a lack of competition.


On the other hand governments always have a monopoly (unless they're in the middle of a civil war) but unlike a corporation which seeks to extract as much wealth from the economy as possible a government's wealth is the economy of its nation, in other words a government doesn't exist to generate profits, it exists to generate productivity. This is why the Japanese were so thoroughly screwed by their bad policies, they weren't running the country like a country they were running it like a business except that's fundamentally not how countries work.

I work in disaster recovery and when I first started there it shocked me that government disaster relief grants mean we literally give people money, it's not a loan, there's no strings attached, heck we don't even really verify people's identities before we give them the money we just ask their name and birth date and hand it over. How the hell does that work, well it works because first of all it helps people get back on their feet which enables them to return to productivity rather than being a long term liability and even if someone who doesn't need the money gets it as long as they live in the general area of the disaster that money will stimulate the local economy thus enabling a faster recovery and return to productivity.

Corporations operate on the scale of financial years and quarters, governments operate on the scale of fuck you, to a government money is literally just a number, an important number to be sure but only important insofar as its ability to do things. The department I am a part of is but a small part of the tongue a dragon the size of a continent used to lick its wounds, it's not until you see something like that move that you can begin to even comprehend how big it is.

And to think compared to the US, Australia is a relatively small dragon.

Certifying the integrity of corporations is a good idea but the notion that any corporation can achieve any actual beneficial change upon a country on a scale that would actually matter without imploding from its own competitiveness is laughable.

Moreover corporations cannot be entrusted with the public's interests for two reasons:

The first is that simply put people are stupid and cannot be relied upon to exercise conscientiousness in which corporation they support, being "the good guys" is far from being the only marketing strategy or the best.

The second is that the interests of a corporation only align with the public's interests in particular circumstances and even then only superficially, for a corporation any good they do for society is purely an exercise in public relations. A government on the other hand can literally hand out money, that may not always be the most prudent thing to do but it's not the money itself that matters but rather how its used because as long as that money stays in the economy and either generates productivity or brings more money into the economy then the government profits, so to speak.

Now on to my rant proper.

Insurance is something that really ought to be a public service, note when I'm talking about a government I'm not talking about politicians, they're the ass clowns the actual government has to work around to get anything done. The public service is the actual doing-things part of the government and we do a lot of things, all of it (ideally) geared towards increasing the nation's productivity or mitigating things that decrease productivity (like being bombed by a neighboring nation). Anyway back to insurance, these parasites get most of the information they use to make risk assessments which they base their insurances policies on from the government, the Bureau of Statistics or something like that. They then have the audacity to actually to try and weasel out of paying by either putting the onus of proof back on the person who just had their home destroyed or by offering insurance policies which in the first place don't actually cover anything because they're full of fine print loopholes.

We love nailing these bastard's balls to the proverbial wall.

I also have rants for healthcare, education and social security lined up but I'm getting tired and it's really just more of the same, government good for public interests (insofar as it's not corrupt, damned ass clowns), corporations not good for public interests unless they superficially align with their interests but corporations are good for innovation which is a major driver of productivity and thus prosperity (insofar as a healthy level of competition is maintained).
 

Cognisant

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How long do you suppose we'd extend our lifetimes with life extension?
Indefinitely hopefully.

What kind of experimentation is necessary before it becomes something available for embodiment without high risk of fatality, or fatality of partial bodily functions we've become accustomed to?
Most of the life support tech already exists so avoiding death by organ failure shouldn't be too difficult 20-30 years from now. Keeping the brain alive indefinitely will likely involve regenerative treatments (i.e. stem cells) and the use of genetically engineered viruses to remove defunct and cancerous cells, technologies that are currently in testing. Of course with the loss of neurons you'll lose memories but that already happens naturally as we overwrite old memories with new ones and the brain doesn't store things like a computer, there's a lot duplication. As long as you don't lose too much too fast it shouldn't be an issue and as annoying as it will be to have to do refresher courses on things you already learned (which again people already have to do) learning something the second time tends to be a lot easier (as any coder can attest to).

Btw, what do you think about the fact that Musk got a monkey to control a computer with its' brain, and is planning to be able to read neural spikes in a human in a minimally invasive way via laser beams opposed to drilling holes in the skull supposedly by end of 2020? That is his ambition, at least.
Sounds exciting, although personally I believe the real breakthrough will be with peripheral nerve interfaces, re-purposing the wiring the brain already uses to communicate with the body. Imagine your head gets cut off, you neck gets plugged into a socket (grossly over simplifying) and now you have a virtual body that feels every bit as real as your meat body did (after all it's sending the same signals to your brain via the same nerves) except you can use that virtual body as an interface to control anything (like remapping keys on your keyboard) and you won't have a computer messing with your brain so there's no worries about being manipulated or having your mind read.
 

Tenacity

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What does one even consume on that future life extension? What would the digestive system even be made of or require
 

Cognisant

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Total parenteral nutrition which is feeding the body by adding nutrients directly to the blood supply, at present this is a short term treatment intended to buy time for a patient with intestinal/stomach issues however the complications could likely be overcome with further research, or using a genetically engineered bio-compatible pigs as a sort of living life support system. The pig's brain is not necessary for this and would likely either be removed or prevented from developing in the first place for both ethical and practical reasons.
 
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