Can you act against your conscience

[sushi]

In what instance?

Have you tried it? what motivates you to do it.

doing things that seriously violates your core values or conscience.

 

[TheManBeyond]

yeap, i'm cheating on my current gf
i feel bad about it sometimes cuz i look at her eyes and feel bad cuz u can see how she likes me but i use for myself the excuse of being together for little time, i think she cannot love me so much or anything to really be concerned about it
worst thing is that maybe i will need to move to her place and live with her for a while since i don't have anywhere else to go
and still with all her help i'm acting like an asshole

but also, eyes that don't see, heart that doesn't feel
dunno.

 

[Sinny91]

In instances of self preservation.

Like Asimovs three laws, or something .

"I won't break this code, unless it breaks this code".

I hate doing things which make me feel guilty, mostly I'm unhindered by guilt, but when it does kick in, it's a pain in the ass and make's life and lies harder.

I don't really know what my core values are, a lot of my morals are flexible, even hypocritical. There are a few values and morals that I'd defend to the death, but there are thousands more that I'm amend when it suited me to do so.

 

[Sinny91]

yeap, i'm cheating on my current gf
i feel bad about it sometimes cuz i look at her eyes and feel bad cuz u can see how she likes me but i use for myself the excuse of being together for little time, i think she cannot love me so much or anything to really be concerned about it
worst thing is that maybe i will need to move to her place and live with her for a while since i don't have anywhere else to go
and still with all her help i'm acting like an asshole

but also, eyes that don't see, heart that doesn't feel
dunno.

Ha, I told you so.

 

[kora]

By conscience do you mean my moral values ? I go against them if I no longer feel that someone deserves them and has wronged me repeatedly and it is useful for me. Basically once I lose respect for someone and it's useful to me. It's rare though. For example if I was themanbeyonds girlfriend I could start doing it. I would have no qualms about lying or cheating any longer. (No offense tmb, it's your life and I don't know you, just using it as an example.)

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

Yes, and yes.

For me it was tied closely to existentialism. If all of my actions are meaningless in the end, then I can rationalize anything. Rape, murder, torture, crime all had appeal so long as they might be hedonistically or egotistically enjoyable. The consequences of doing bad things fade, as do the benefits of doing good, especially when the latter requires more effort. Superego death, of sorts.

Of course, I've since found flaws in ^this worldview...

Edit: Two level 10 aphasic typos in a single post. I think I'm done for the day.

 

[Seteleechete]

Yes, and yes.

For me it was tied closely to existentialism. If all of my actions are meaningless in the end, then I can rationalize anything. Rape, murder, torture, crime all had appeal so long as they might be hedonistically or egotistically enjoyable. The consequences of doing bad things fade, as do the benefits of doing good, especially with the latter requires more effort. Superego death, of sorts.

Of course, I've sense found flaws in ^this worldview...

While theoretically I agree with this worldview in practise I don't see it happening that the positives would outweigh the negatives(most prominently having to deal with my consciousness and other consequences). But if it does *shrug*.

Though I imagine the positives would grow over time as the instinctual effects of your consciousness dim, or would positives from such actions dim by the same degree? Hmm

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

While theoretically I agree with this worldview in practise I don't see it happening that the positives would outweigh the negatives(most prominently having to deal with my consciousness and other consequences). But if it does *shrug*. Also I imagine the positives would grow over time as the instinctual effects of your consciousness dim.

Quoted before my edit. My typos are forever on display.

The main factor is that the majority of others present boatloads of stimuli and reinforcement mechanisms for you to do good, so while things may be neutral on an individual level, the impetus for good persists on higher levels. It becomes figuring out how to do things that are mutually beneficial on a large scale, which is actually challenging given the stakeholders involved and actually manages to hold my attention.

A main personal factor for me is that my life was once threatened by someone after that "neutral" thing got me into trouble. I came to grips with being at the mercy of something larger. If they chose to kill me, they won, and if they didn't, they still won, because I have little choice but to attribute any future success of mine to their decision to let me live.

 

[Seteleechete]

Quoted before my edit. My typos are forever on display.

I had to spend 5 minutes comparing the texts word to word to find them...

I love my subconscious reading filters. The first mistake I automatically filtered to the correct word. For the second I skipped the word(or rather read it and deemed it unimportant) because it was unnecessary/unneeded in conveying the message.

Of course the negative result of my filtering is that my own grammar sucks as a result. Which is why I can read stuff 14/7 and still make spelling mistakes.

 

[Yellow]

In what instance?

Have you tried it? what motivates you to do it.

doing things that seriously violates your core values or conscience.

Are you talking about conscience or values? I just change my values or ignore them if I have to. It's my conscience that tells me which can be ignored/adjusted, when, why, and how.

So my conscience is the thing I'm bargaining with to allow me the convenience of ignoring its previous mandates.

When needs must, I adjust.

Most people would say the same, if they were being honest. I've been thinking about this since the last, very similar thread topic (I think it was Reluctantly who made the thread). In practice, I observe that my own values are not as transient as others, yet, I'm quicker than most to admit that I'm amoral (probably because inner-honesty is a value that can't be compromised, since the outside world can't touch it).

 

[Black Rose]

Can you act against your conscience

Thinking about this has been the main cause my phycological breakdowns.
I realized that thinking about circumstances in that way is fruitless.
I am in no way expected to do things against my conscience right now.
So I don't have to worry about scenarios where I would be reduced to such measures.
I now keep my nihilistic thoughts separate from my emotional weaknesses.

 

[Reluctantly]

I don't think I can. Because ultimately, what I consider right is what I will choose to do, whether others agree or not. Unless you mean can I do something that I consider to be wrong; I suppose I could, but my soul would suffer for it.

 

[Turnevies]

There is the constant moral struggle, part of me can be really machiavellistic and another part gets pride of feeling morally superior.

In the end, I try to take the path that will be best for myself and the world on the long term, in practice often the least bad path according to my personal judgment.

 

[E404]

I think people justify changing their conscience... Sometimes genuinely, sometimes conveniently.

Isn't being open minded something INTPs are known for?

 

[reloaded]

In any situation where I may feel threatened. Yes, when I was 6-8. Self-preservation. Did I feel bad about it? For a short moment, but I could quickly get rid of all guilt.

 

[Dorian Tullus]

muh conscience


ahem, i prefer to use the term "standards"

 

[emmabobary]

Maybe it´s mroe about testing your limits. I suposse one can always break it´s own boundaries. Desensitization is the idea, I think.

 

[Minuend]

I'm fairly pragmatic and will change behavior depending on the situation. There would always be some things I'd value across situations, but if I thought it necessary or as a lesser evil, I'd still do bad things. If not, then there wouldn't be any motivation to do it.

 

[Cognisant]

I don't have a moral conscience, it's more a matter of pragmatism and utility*.
*: As in utilitarianism.

 

[Ecclesiastic]

This is possible. Research the term Cognitive Dissonance. It relies upon holding two conflicting views. One such view may contrast from your conscience or that which you consider your standard moral construct.

 

[Architect]

Difficult question, I don't really identify what a conscience is. I have my judgement, and my nature and decisions depend on the situation, most of the time I go with my nature these days. For example an uncle died recently. He lives a state away and my remaining birth family went. My judgement said I didn't need to go - he wasn't close growing up, he lived his life according to his terms (he was an SP who retired to play), travel is difficult, plenty of relatives are going, and the costs were high. But judgement also said that there's a case for going regardless of all that, just because.

My nature was clear that it didn't want me to go, and if I did it would be a personal compromise. All it would do would be to 'check a box' for family members and probably give some small satisfaction at seeing me. Or not, that side of the family is so foreign in a way (all of them SP sports types) I don't know. Anyhow, I didn't let my Fe inferior be manipulated on this one, as I've learned defense against that (my dad regularly uses that trick, probably because it worked when I was younger), so I didn't go, the one holdout (most of the relatives live in the same town so it was a non issue for them).

Right or wrong that's the process I went thorough, for the most part.

 

[Nebulous]

In what instance?

Have you tried it? what motivates you to do it.

doing things that seriously violates your core values or conscience.

Yep. People can definitely act against their conscience.

Example:
A Catholic person who genuinely believes in God and the teachings of their faith, etc, and is aware that a certain action or thought would be a sin-
There are a ton of instances where they'll still do it.


You can believe in God and believe that there are "right" and "wrong", or "good" and "evil" ways to go about your life and thoughts and desires, and still go against them.
Like believing in God and yet actively choosing to go against him.

There's also like
Masochism in the form of doing things you feel horrible/guilty about.

 

[TheManBeyond]

I do what I want when I want, the other option is a waste energy

 

[Hadoblado]

I acted against my conscience yesterday.

I was at the laundromat, there were a bunch of pamphlets sitting there. They were from some johos. I idly read one. The emotional manipulation had me outraged. Promising to bring back dead loved ones etc. if you believed. I spent the rest of the wait considering whether or not I would be right to remove the offensive material. I eventually concluded that, even if it might be wrong of me to bin them, the universe would be better if I did, and that it would be wrong of me to side with my own investment in feeling in the right on this issue. So I decided I would remove them as I left.

Then I forgot to

 

[doncarlzone]

I say hopefully. If you are not capable of this then the implication is one of two things:

A. Your moral beliefs are in perfect sync with your actions, in which case your sense of morality is still in its infancy and would require some reflection.

Or B. You attempt to rationalize every single action of yours in order for it to be in sync with your moral standards in which case your self denial has run amok.

Guess what. None of us are saints. And if you do want to enter intellectual reflections of ethics, then best be prepared to admit to yourself when you act in opposition to your ethical "conclusions".

And thinking that you simply do not have any ethical beliefs is, again, self denial. Life will inevitably teach you that.

And here is just one personal example. I believe that is unethical for a human in my circumstances to buy meat in the supermarket, yet I still do it. I could go on..

It is the believe that your actions have to be in sync with your moral standards that is the root cause of so many bad arguments.

 

[QuickTwist]

Survival.

 

[Pizzabeak]

It's sin. The moment you deviate from what's Holy you ruin the space time; only if that's what you subscribe to. Otherwise it's wasted time.

It's all connected. You can choose but generally face the consequences. It stems from needing to love and form connections, thus establishing boundaries.

 

[Lurker]

In what instance?

Have you tried it? what motivates you to do it.

doing things that seriously violates your core values or conscience.

Yes, but when you write "tried it," I think of pulling a Drugstore Cowboy, Kalifornia, Thelma and Louise**, or best of all, some good old Clockwork-Orange-Ultraviolence. Painted myself into a corner, yes. I've whittled away my options until I'm left with the dregs -- This is the stuff of pop philosophical questions, e.g., let three old people die to save one five year old? -- of moral dilemmas.

When my emotions are hyped-up, I can attack people. I don't nessasarily regret this, but I may be too mean, or cause too much collateral damage. If the core values or principles I fight for are buried in battle rubble, then I have probably done enough damage to weigh on my conscience. More importantly, my message was lost!!!

Regarding the survival and well-being of my loved ones, I am pragmatic. Take that how you want. /Trump

In general, I can't sleep for guilt if I violate my principles. I have contemplated suicide from guilt. Also, I don't think that being a"p" creates any special ability to tolerate moral cognitive dissonance.

Tolerating amoral behavior without distress is a criminal type thang, not a p thing. But, people will conflate such a bizarre variety of traits with an MBTI TYPE.

It's time to forge past the limitations of MBTI. Psychoanalysis was groundbreaking until it wasn't.


** I show my age

 

[Nebulous]

Yep. People can definitely act against their conscience.

Example:
A Catholic person who genuinely believes in God and the teachings of their faith, etc, and is aware that a certain action or thought would be a sin-
There are a ton of instances where they'll still do it.


You can believe in God and believe that there are "right" and "wrong", or "good" and "evil" ways to go about your life and thoughts and desires, and still go against them.
Like believing in God and yet actively choosing to go against him.

There's also like
Masochism in the form of doing things you feel horrible/guilty about.

One might also call these things that are taboo "kinky" feeling.. some get turned on by the feeling they get when they do something they know goes against their conscience

Just a thought
Maybe that's why catholic school girls get all hoey... the stronger the 'morals' you have in you at the start, the likely you'll be aroused by breaking them.. perhaps..

 

[BurnedOut]

I personally have only few stoic morals, one being truthlessness, about betrayal and truth when circumstances ask for it. If anyone betrays me or violates the above mentioned morals, I'll drop my morals all along to take an eye for an eye. I believe in revenge and justice because simply forgiveness doesn't solve things all the times and some acts are simply unforgiving. So I guess I am sounding like a hypocrite but only when someone else crosses my morals. Or else no.
Like I planned to seek revenge from my ex because I could deduce that she was fucking around my back and it caused and extreme level of mental turmoil. So I planned everything meticulously and funnily I'm still using proxies to carry out the master plan