• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Bipolar and MBTI type

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
My orientation to the inside and outside is extremely inconsistent. I think my bipolar changes how my energy is directed. That is why my type is hard to figure out.

Any suggestions?
 

Germanicus

Redshirt
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
1
-->
I would highly recommend that you look at the book Touched with Fire: Manic Depressive Illness and the Artistic Temperament. It affirms the thesis of what you shared in your second post. I am a fellow INTP with BP. I've been seeing a doctor and taking medicine for 5 years, now.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 5:26 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
2,259
-->
My orientation to the inside and outside is extremely inconsistent.
Not sure what that means. Can you describe that in more detail?

I think my bipolar changes how my energy is directed.
Not sure what that means either. Can you describe that in more detail as well?


That is why my type is hard to figure out.

Any suggestions?
Once you fill me on the above, enough that I understand wht you meant, then it's quite possible to make suggestions.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
Not sure what that means. Can you describe that in more detail?

Sometimes I feel like I can absorb energy from the outside (Extraversion) and sometimes the inside (introversion). But I should be doing one of them consistently (orientation). I am not because I am bipolar. I have high and low energy levels so I cannot tell if I am E or I.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 5:26 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
2,259
-->
Not sure what that means. Can you describe that in more detail?

Sometimes I feel like I can absorb energy from the outside (Extraversion) and sometimes the inside (introversion). But I should be doing one of them consistently (orientation). I am not because I am bipolar. I have high and low energy levels so I cannot tell if I am E or I.
Then you can't use the "extroverts get more energy from being with people and introverts get more energy from being alone" measure.

What about Jung's idea of extraverts and intraverts?
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
Then you can't use the "extroverts get more energy from being with people and introverts get more energy from being alone" measure.

What about Jung's idea of extraverts and intraverts?

give me your opinion then?

I guess that I am a Se dom Fi aux with depression / bipolar.

Se activates when I have high levels of energy. (I love music amvs)
Te being tert subjugates all my time.
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
AK, I’m curious, and can’t sleep for some reason,

when it comes to people, do you first understand them through your internalized instinctual feelings and deal with them based on that, and rationale them after the fact? Or are you first more neutral, finding it natural to analyze the rationale behind their actions and judge them first based on that? One is basically your ego, the other your super-ego.

when it comes to taking action, do you naturally like to follow potential, such as trying things that haven’t been done or seeing new ways of doing things, without knowing if it’s a good idea or not or if it’s practical or will help? Or do you like to interact more directly, applying yourself to the nature of the situation around you and dealing with it on those terms first. One is also part of your ego, while the other your super-ego.

and of course everybody does both, but one should be natural inclination (ego), while the other takes more deliberate conscious effort (super ego).

I think I know which one you are, but I’ll see how you respond.
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
Not sure what that means. Can you describe that in more detail?

Sometimes I feel like I can absorb energy from the outside (Extraversion) and sometimes the inside (introversion). But I should be doing one of them consistently (orientation). I am not because I am bipolar. I have high and low energy levels so I cannot tell if I am E or I.

also, if I understand you correctly, I think this is a misconception.

Extroversion isn’t really about where you get energy from. It’s extroversion, meaning objective and external, as in without subjective focus and not internalized. If you are an extrovert, your mind is naturally attuned to interacting with what’s going on around you. If you are introvert, you detach from what’s going on and basically reflect.

course dualism is a thing and you never get extroversion without introversion and vice versa, meaning ambiversion is normal and subconscious influences conscious, but I just wanted to clarify. Maybe that’s what you meant anyway.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
With people, I try and tell if they are "rational" or not. Or reasonable. Someone I can resonate with. I am sensitive so I need to protect myself by knowing how much I should be vulnerable and expose how I really think/feel.

I am rather guarded in what I do. I try not to do anything new that would upset things. I stay home all day.
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
With people, I try and tell if they are "rational" or not. Or reasonable. Someone I can resonate with.
Okay. So you sound Ti to me. Fi doesn't really give a shit about that, minus the resonate part.

I am sensitive so I need to protect myself by knowing how much I should be vulnerable and expose how I really think/feel.
I think this is normal with Ti. You'd probably like being around people that you can share what you're thinking, without being judged. It might sound strange, but Fi types will do that. They will feel a certain way about what was said or how it was said and the logic or rationale behind what you said doesn't matter to them.

I am rather guarded in what I do. I try not to do anything new that would upset things. I stay home all day.
You sound introverted. Not wanting to upset things also sounds like Si.

I think you're TiNe. That was also what I thought before though. Maybe I'm biased, but it does make sense I think.
 

crippli

disturbed
Local time
Today 6:26 PM
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
1,779
-->
Maybe make a list every day. Time evereything. I think you yourself might be the best friend.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
There are two kinds of depression.

sadness
and
low energy

Lexapro deals with sadness. I am not sad.
My psychiatrist will be giving me Prozac for low energy.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
So you sound Ti to me.

I have a problem with this. Not you just me being Ti. Nanook is ISTP by my account and more logical than I am. I go on more emotion. Or more on Nx. I just know that meeting real Ti people they are clear cut. They put it together in a way I don't.

I am just not a thinker and if I am I'm INTJ.
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
Well, there is a lot of things to consider. Going on emotion doesn't preclude not being a T type; T and F feed off each other aka dualism. I've noticed in my life that the most "unemotional" types are actually perceiving types first because they are focused on perception, i.e. they are cut off from F and T, essentially. It's a secondary thing.

And T first people can either be really emotional or not, depending on who they are engaging with. Like with the TeNi (Te) I know, if you are receptive to what they are saying, they will get very involved in conversation and in joking and expressing themselves and such. TeSi seems to like when you agree with their values and goals and will open up then. TiNe seems reserved, but opens up if they are allowed to speak their mind freely and banter. TiSe are also reserved, but get really emotional when involved in an activity they enjoy or find exciting. But their base states are T. But I don't really like the stereotypes that T is logical and F go on emotion because not only is it wrong, but it's stupid because it doesn't tell you any kind of wisdom or insight about personality, just do you fit this stereotype or that one. All it really means is that a T types defaults to T and transitions to F or F defaults to F and transitions to T. They complement each other and both are a part of the personality.

But I don't know. If you're not following me, then let me know and I'll just drop it.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
I think it is on the nature of T and F and how P operates.

F is like/dislike - (values)
T is if this then that (cause)

P - passive/active taking in and reporting

recently my Se was activated and I could see all the details in videos. like wearing glasses for the first time.

Ti is a cause internal to the person (introversion)
I think all the time but I am not organized
others with T seem organized more than me

But if the organization is caused by P I can see being Ti if only I think too much

But that means I default to T and transition to F - Fe I see as a void in values

Fe as a void does not seem like me
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
T - causes
F - preferences
N - symbols
S - states
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
I think it is on the nature of T and F and how P operates.

F is like/dislike - (values)
T is if this then that (cause)

Thing is, you can define it that way and sure there is truth to that, but actually just seeing it in people, it's not going to be that simple. Like Fi seems to be more about values in general, but that's also my opinion. People that have Fi somewhere in their personality see it differently. I think Fe is more about trying to have good vibes, but Fi people probably see it as manipulative or judgmental, if they aren't received well by Fe (from what I've gathered of their opinions on the matter). I think Fi likes to enjoy its own farts too much, but that's just me. Fi I probably understand the least. It seems too narcissistic/self-serving/bitchy, but maybe that's the point. Like I'm high on agreeable with Big 5 and sometimes I need to be more narcissistic and such, so I guess it has some fundamental cognitive benefit/utility, but it's not something I care much about. And I don't generally get along with people like that (but then again, who does?).

P - passive/active taking in and reporting

recently my Se was activated and I could see all the details in videos. like wearing glasses for the first time.

Ti is a cause internal to the person (introversion)
I think all the time but I am not organized
others with T seem organized more than me

But if the organization is caused by P I can see being Ti if only I think too much

But that means I default to T and transition to F - Fe I see as a void in values

Fe as a void does not seem like me

Hmm, well, I don't know if organization is necessarily T. I mean Te is just getting involved in the logic of what's around you and playing a stake in it, so it doesn't necessarily care how things are organized, unless that would help their stake in things. XeFi are especially prone to having a lot of chaotic and disorganized logical actions, trying to cause outcomes and such without much thought into structuring them. And Ti is just trying to work out a logical framework/understanding of things, so it also wouldn't necessarily care how things are organized either. XiFe types are often pretty lazy when it comes to organizing and can become hoarders, but can be pretty receptive to an understanding of things, regardless.

Experientially, FeSi and SiFe seem to like being the most organized, though I can't really explain why. I think they really like having things easy, simple, and functional, and are often pretty happy to divide up responsibilities and duties and not want to know things that would complicate their lives, whereas other types have a more varying receptiveness to complexity.

About P. I think there's a weird understanding about perception with MBTI. They try to pin introverted rational functions as perceiving, and they are in their own way, but the most basest perception is the irrational functions - Se, Si, Ne, Ni because they interpret really without reason. Like Ni can form ideas about nature or see archetypes, without there having to be a rhyme or reason for it, and Se will use that as a backdrop for interpreting their senses and acting on them. Si is kind of the impact the person feels by the world around them, so these people often gravitate to art, music, artistic expression, and have affinities to aesthetic preferences and such. They are usually good at understanding how people will internalize different feelings/emotions (because they do so much of it themselves) and can use it in their art or in some therapeutic sense.
So I don't think it's really about being passive or just taking in and reporting. That sounds more like Ti, analyzing a situation and making sense of it, which is technically a rational thought process that evidently leads to judgement (and is more practically reasonable to call "judging").
/rant
I think MBTI has a confusing and convoluted idea of what perceiving/judging means and maybe they could use more descriptive words to explain things. It seems extremely unhelpful when people argue their pet definitions about perceiving/judging as it applies to them, compartmentalizing or stereotyping others, leading to issues in communicating and understanding. Maybe somebody should write a book and go into a lot of detail about type to clear up all of these issues that most people never seem to get past and then they think personality is just about stereotyping and that sliding scales like the Big 5 are the best we can do...it's bizarre.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
If I would guess, bipolar makes me more extraverted if I am INTP. The depression makes me sleep more but then I start focussing externally well awake. I seem to reflect less when not in bed. manic extraversion.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 5:26 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
2,259
-->
T - causes
F - preferences
N - symbols
S - states
I like this.

If you don't mind, I will copy this and use it as a reference frame in the future.
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
Just curious AK, but have you ever experimented with supplements, herbs, exercise, yoga, stress-reducing things like asmr, letting your mind and body rest, eating healthy, things like that? Cause I know sometimes bipolar can be a result of those things causing poor sleep, insomnia and/or oversleeping, and it can make people depressed, especially if their mind and body isn't functioning well and there is major imbalances going on in their lives.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 5:26 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
2,259
-->
I think it is on the nature of T and F and how P operates.

F is like/dislike - (values)
T is if this then that (cause)

Ti is a cause internal to the person (introversion)
I think all the time but I am not organized
others with T seem organized more than me

But if the organization is caused by P I can see being Ti if only I think too much

But that means I default to T and transition to F - Fe I see as a void in values

Fe as a void does not seem like me
1) Te & Fi types seem to be very into being magnanimous, that is, when they're in a good mood (Fi), they like to do nice things for you. When it helps them practically (Te), they want to help you.

2) Ti & Fe types are much more into doing things because it makes sense (Ti) or is moral (Fe). What they choose to do, is not dependent on their feelings, but the needs of the other person.

E.G. I have an Fe-dom friend who likes to be with friends when he gives them presents on their birthday, because he likes to see their surprise and excitement. But he still will give them a present because it's their birthday.

He doesn't give presents just because he's in a good mood and wants to share it with others. When he wants to share his good mood with others, he'll phone or want to go out and do something together.

P - passive/active taking in and reporting

recently my Se was activated and I could see all the details in videos. like wearing glasses for the first time.
1) Se & Ni types base their ideas on what they've physically experienced/seen.

E.G. ISTPs want to actually get hands on with their learning.

INTJs usually base their ideas about people, based on the people they grew up with.

If an INTJ is an atheist and grew up with religious people, he's likely to say that he didn't get on with the people he grew up with.

2) Si & Ne types base their ideas on indisputable facts.

E.G. things written in a book or are known customs that most people accept, such as the water freezes at 0 degrees Centigrade and boils at 100 degrees Centigrade.

If an INTP is an atheist and grew up with religious people, he's more likely to say that the Bible is inconsistent or that certain things the Bible says are extremely unlikely.

They also tend to focus on specific precise details.

E.G. ISTJs can spot the slightest mark on a plate, however small it is.

They tend to discount their own individual experiences when it comes to judging things, unless they believe their experiences are indicative of reality in general.

Hope that helps.
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
T - causes
F - preferences
N - symbols
S - states
I like this.

If you don't mind, I will copy this and use it as a reference frame in the future.

I know you probably don't want my opinion, but this seems very misleading. I could see a decent argument for
Ti - causes
Fi - preferences
Ni - symbols
Si - states

But once you go extroverted, that breaks down. Te is more about effects, than causes. Fe is less about divisive preferences and more about trying/wanting to get everyone on the same page, Ne is not symbols at all, but actively seeing different potential in things and pursuing them, Se not states, but moreso actions.

I don't know. Kind of feels like this
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
T - causes
F - preferences
N - symbols
S - states
I like this.

If you don't mind, I will copy this and use it as a reference frame in the future.

I know you probably don't want my opinion, but this seems very misleading. I could see a decent argument for
Ti - causes
Fi - preferences
Ni - symbols
Si - states

But once you go extroverted, that breaks down. Te is more about effects, than causes. Fe is less about divisive preferences and more about trying/wanting to get everyone on the same page, Ne is not symbols at all, but actively seeing different potential in things and pursuing them, Se not states, but moreso actions.

I don't know. Kind of feels like this

Te - effects
Fe - universals
Ne - potentials
Se - action
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
T - causes
F - preferences
N - symbols
S - states
I like this.

If you don't mind, I will copy this and use it as a reference frame in the future.

I know you probably don't want my opinion, but this seems very misleading. I could see a decent argument for
Ti - causes
Fi - preferences
Ni - symbols
Si - states

But once you go extroverted, that breaks down. Te is more about effects, than causes. Fe is less about divisive preferences and more about trying/wanting to get everyone on the same page, Ne is not symbols at all, but actively seeing different potential in things and pursuing them, Se not states, but moreso actions.

I don't know. Kind of feels like this

Te - effects
Fe - universals
Ne - potentials
Se - action

That could work. But universals doesn't really exhibit Fe as shared or objective feeling. I'd probably change Fe to rapport or something like that.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
Ti - causes
Fi - preferences
Ni - symbols
Si - states

Te - effects
Fe - rapport
Ne - potentials
Se - action
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 5:26 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
2,259
-->
T - causes
F - preferences
N - symbols
S - states
I like this.

If you don't mind, I will copy this and use it as a reference frame in the future.

I know you probably don't want my opinion, but this seems very misleading. I could see a decent argument for
Ti - causes
Fi - preferences
Ni - symbols
Si - states

But once you go extroverted, that breaks down. Te is more about effects, than causes. Fe is less about divisive preferences and more about trying/wanting to get everyone on the same page, Ne is not symbols at all, but actively seeing different potential in things and pursuing them, Se not states, but moreso actions.

I don't know. Kind of feels like this
1) I wrote "I like this", rather than said "this is accurate".

"this is accurate" => "this is precise".

"I like this" => this isn't exactly precise, but it's in general direction that sums up what I have learned about T, F, N and S.

2) This was about T in general, not Ti specifically, or Te specifically.

3) I can see where you aer going with this. But that was exactly what I wanted to avoid, because T is NOT "causes", Fi is NOT "preferences", Ni is definitely NOT "symbols", and Si is definitely NOT "states".

Ti = diagnosis of cause and effect.
Fi = VALUES / ETHICS (subjective preferences).
Ni = subjective interpretation of symbols (MY vision).
Si = episodic memory (history)

Te = application of cause and effect.
Fe = MORALS & rules of social conduct (objective preferences).
Ne = objective interpretation of symbols (Possible meanings).
Se = procedural memory (tactics)

What @Animekitty wrote, were 1-word answers that I could use to ponder on and to link back to these.
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
@scorpiomover

I don't think you are being logically consistent though and I think this is misleading for the Jungian analytical psychology that uses dualism to help explain the psyche. For example, objective vs subjective is just externalized (objective) vs internalized (subjective).

For example, take your explanation of Fi as VALUES/ETHICS (subjective preferences) and Fe as MORALS & rules of social conduct (objective preferences). You've defined Fi and Fe as dealing with preferences, yet a preference is formed after internalizing things, hence why it is also subjective -> internalized being subjective and externalized objective. Fe is supposed to be linked to Ti via dualism of functions; basically, in other words, the introverted form of Fe is Ti, in the same way that the introverted form of say Te is Fi. What this means...basically...is that Fe is externalized feeling based upon an internalized logic of things. Now that could mean social conduct as you say, but really that wouldn't be a correct definition because Fi being internalized feeling will often create social conduct. One example is Japanese culture that is very heavy on the internalized Fi culture values they have and there is often very specific and expected form of social conduct that you have to abide by. An Fe person will change and adapt their Fe based on what makes sense (Ti) because that is the dualistic link to Fe. A good example I think is Jacksepticeye on youtube. He is very natural Fe and lots of Ti behind all of his feeling; he's constantly making logical links between things and this reflects in his Fe. Another example I think of Fi is Donald Trump (yes I know this might be controversial, but look at the logic I'm making here). He has a lot of internalized feeling about things and prefers Te to enforce or externalize those feelings. He's not a very Ti or logical person and seems almost to disregard it completely in favor of preferences and internalized feelings he has about things. He likes Te people that can just do or accomplish what he wants, not necessarily what makes sense.

I also again take issue with Ne as dealing in symbols. Symbols are things that kind of characterize or represent things. They can be art, like a sinking ship portrait as a symbol or metaphor for a failing business, or an archetype or metaphor that gives a picture of something. Say I wore a Fedora, an Ni person might think about the associations between the Fedora and what it means or represents, how it's symbolic of something in some way, like being a hipster or a stuck-up jerk or whatever. The associations are internalized and subjective. An Ne person will see the Fedora and think about different ways the Fedora can perhaps be styled with clothes (externalized and objective Ne) through the different aesthetic impressions that can be made with the hat (internalized and subjective Si). So again, your definition of Ne as "objective interpretation of symbols (Possible meanings).", it's odd and vague and doesn't represent extroversion very well. Interpreting symbols and thinking about possible meanings is very internalized and subjective -> hence Ni.

I don't know. I'm going to stop here. I just...I don't know...I don't think very many people actually understand Jungian types.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
Fe is an expression of what makes sense internally Ti
Te is the enforcement of a preference that has been internalized Fi

Ni looks for meaning in Se detail
Si is impressed with Ne associations
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
Fe is an expression of what makes sense internally Ti
Te is the enforcement of a preference that has been internalized Fi

Ni looks for meaning in Se detail
Si is impressed with Ne associations

So I am either INFJ or ISTP
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 5:26 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
2,259
-->
@scorpiomover

I don't think you are being logically consistent though
I'm trying to develop logically consistent ideas. Rome wasn't built in a day.

and I think this is misleading for the Jungian analytical psychology that uses dualism to help explain the psyche.
Jung talks about distinctions. The distinction of dualism between the mind and the body is only one distinction. There are many distinctions. I'm not that certain that Jung meant dualism.

For example, objective vs subjective is just externalized (objective) vs internalized (subjective).
When I read Jung's Chapter X, I didn't get the impression from Jung's language that he was expressing what you are saying.

For example, take your explanation of Fi as VALUES/ETHICS (subjective preferences) and Fe as MORALS & rules of social conduct (objective preferences).
I haven't worked every detail out already. I am not claiming that my descriptions are perfect. I am not even claiming they are the best. I'm just trying to do my best to figure thing out.

You keep attacking me just because I said I liked what @Animekitty said, and that I thought it might be useful to me, to better understand people's personalities and their differences.

I don't even have to be 100% sure to do that, because we all have to start somewhere, and so if we all waited until we were 100% sure to even start trying to figure something out, hardly anyone would get anywhere.

You've defined Fi and Fe as dealing with preferences, yet a preference is formed after internalizing things, hence why it is also subjective -> internalized being subjective and externalized objective.
I just liked the idea of Feelings corresponding to a notion of preferences. My intuition told me that if I thought about that more, I would get closer to the truth. So that's all I was doing, exploring what looked like a fruitful direction. Even if it wasn't, it was still an exploration.

Fe is supposed to be linked to Ti via dualism of functions; basically, in other words, the introverted form of Fe is Ti, in the same way that the introverted form of say Te is Fi. What this means...basically...is that Fe is externalized feeling based upon an internalized logic of things.
I tend to find that's the case.

Now that could mean social conduct as you say, but really that wouldn't be a correct definition because Fi being internalized feeling will often create social conduct.
Lots of people develop their own subjective, individual, personal rules of conduct. Some people think it's rude to not hug, as it seems like you don't like touching people as if they have cooties. Some people think it's rude to hug, as it's invading their personal space.

One example is Japanese culture that is very heavy on the internalized Fi culture values they have and there is often very specific and expected form of social conduct that you have to abide by.
I have read that some people typed Japanese culture as INTP. So I am not that certain that Japanese culture is based on Fi.

English culture is very Te/Fi-based. "An Englishman's home is his castle." If you visit your friend in his home, and in his house, he cuts the feet off guests, it's his castle. If you want to keep your feet, then make sure of the rules of his house before you go through the door.

An Fe person will change and adapt their Fe based on what makes sense (Ti) because that is the dualistic link to Fe. A good example I think is Jacksepticeye on youtube. He is very natural Fe and lots of Ti behind all of his feeling; he's constantly making logical links between things and this reflects in his Fe.
I don't even recall hearing of "Jacksepticeye". So I have nothing to make sense of what you're claiming.

Another example I think of Fi is Donald Trump (yes I know this might be controversial, but look at the logic I'm making here). He has a lot of internalized feeling about things and prefers Te to enforce or externalize those feelings. He's not a very Ti or logical person and seems almost to disregard it completely in favor of preferences and internalized feelings he has about things. He likes Te people that can just do or accomplish what he wants, not necessarily what makes sense.
Trump is normally typed as an ESTP. I've known ESTPs in my life. They would do things like get drunk, and then delete system files off their computer. Then they'd ring me up, and ask me to fix the problem.

When I told them that their computer was f**ked because they deleted system files, they explained they did it when they were drunk.

When I told them that they should not have been deleting system files even when drunk, they agreed.

IME, ESTPs sometimes f**k up. But they tend to admit it when you point it out to them in private.

If you want to talk about people with Fi & Te, then you should talk about INTJs. Hillary Clinton is typed as an INTJ.

I also again take issue with Ne as dealing in symbols. Symbols are things that kind of characterize or represent things. They can be art, like a sinking ship portrait as a symbol or metaphor for a failing business, or an archetype or metaphor that gives a picture of something. Say I wore a Fedora, an Ni person might think about the associations between the Fedora and what it means or represents, how it's symbolic of something in some way, like being a hipster or a stuck-up jerk or whatever. The associations are internalized and subjective.
You wrote: "an Ni person might think about the associations between the Fedora and what it means or represents".

I wrote "Ni = subjective interpretation of symbols (MY vision)."

I fail to see how you are disagreeing with me.

An Ne person will see the Fedora and think about different ways the Fedora can perhaps be styled with clothes (externalized and objective Ne) through the different aesthetic impressions that can be made with the hat (internalized and subjective Si). So again, your definition of Ne as "objective interpretation of symbols (Possible meanings).",
See? Consistent.

it's odd and vague and doesn't represent extroversion very well. Interpreting symbols and thinking about possible meanings is very internalized and subjective -> hence Ni.
If you are assuming that everyone in the world agrees that "objective vs subjective is just externalized (objective) vs internalized (subjective)", then I think your response would make sense.

But I did NOT claim that "objective vs subjective is just externalized vs internalized". Nor do I think that people act that simplistically.

I don't know. I'm going to stop here. I just...I don't know...
Not a bad place to start. After all, when I said that I liked what @Animekitty wrote, I never claimed that I was going to make you say it every day like a mantra.

I don't think very many people actually understand Jungian types.
I first read about MBTI & cognitive functions when I was about 20. I'm now 52. I spent many years comparing how people behave, to MBTI and cognitive functions.

I've also read and re-read Jung's Chapter X several times.

But I'm not claiming to be the Authority on Jung or humanity. This isn't a Philip Pullman novel.
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
Look, I’m not attacking you.

I just don’t see how people are supposed to talk about this if it isn’t logically consistent. This all started from you praising aks very simplistic and misleading one-word definitions. How is that helpful? Ridiculous.

Now fine you disagree on some things, like Donald trump (I said it was controversial) or Japanese culture or even Ti, referring to Ti being rules (I actually don’t think it is rules, rules can be made by anyone for any reason, the reason behind a rule could be to however, sure, but it could also be other things too). Or even on what Jung meant by subjective and objective (which is kind of surprising and I don’t think you understand these were logical terms he came up with for specific reasons after diving into heavy philosophical ideas and concepts).

But I’m just trying to be logically consistent or get other people to be logically consistent. If we can’t do that first, this stuff is just purely anecdotal/subjective/sophistry and it’s a complete waste of time to try and talk about ever again with anyone.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
INFJ - Ni looks for meaning in Fe expression
makes sense since INFJ is an empath

I could be INFJ - brb.

edit:

bipolar does not seem to displace my empathy. I'm just tired and cannot put effort into getting to know someone. But this lasts a short time and I'm back.
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
Bruhhhh
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 5:26 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
2,259
-->
Look, I’m not attacking you.

I just don’t see how people are supposed to talk about this if it isn’t logically consistent.
Pointing out logical inconsistencies is about saying "You wrote A. You wrote B. A => C. B => NOT C."

This all started from you praising aks very simplistic and misleading one-word definitions. How is that helpful? Ridiculous.
It started from you INTERPRETING what I posted, AS IF I PRAISED A POST.

You JUDGED that post as being very simplistic and misleading.

THEN YOU JUDGED what you perceived as praise, as being unhelpful and ridiculous.

You judged, judged, judged. But you didn't even try to see my way of looking at things.

Now fine you disagree on some things, like Donald trump (I said it was controversial) or Japanese culture or even Ti, referring to Ti being rules (I actually don’t think it is rules, rules can be made by anyone for any reason, the reason behind a rule could be to however, sure, but it could also be other things too).


Or even on what Jung meant by subjective and objective (which is kind of surprising and I don’t think you understand these were logical terms he came up with for specific reasons after diving into heavy philosophical ideas and concepts).
Judgey, judgey, judgey. I have spent several years contemplating what Jung meant by extravert and intravert.

But I’m just trying to be logically consistent or get other people to be logically consistent.
If I say that something is between 1 and 3, and you say that it's 2.5, then my answer is still logically consistent with your answer. So you can only hold people to account for the level of accuracy they are claiming, for the things they claim are CERTAIN.

I wasn't claiming certainty or preciseness here. So you had no grounds, other than to claim that F has NO aspect of preferences, or that T has NO aspect of cause and effect, or that Intuition has NO aspect of symbolism, or that Sensation has NO aspect of States.

But how were you supposed to know that I wasn't being certain or precise?

Because I wrote that I LIKED it. LIKE is a Feeling, a preference, not an analytically precise and clear rational thought. That was WHY I used the word "like" in the first place, to make that clear.

Did that level of accuracy in my words and thought about what I was writing, go right over your head?

If we can’t do that first, this stuff is just purely anecdotal/subjective/sophistry and it’s a complete waste of time to try and talk about ever again with anyone.
Logic is about UNDERSTAND FIRST, JUDGE LAST. YOU CANNOT MAKE AN ACCURATE JUDGEMENT ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND.

If you wish to discuss each issue, by all means. But don't come across all critical like that, and not expect me to at least point out when you were arguing with things I never wrote nor implied.

So why the f**k did you go off all half-cocked in the first place?
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 5:26 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
2,259
-->
T - causes
F - preferences
N - symbols
S - states
I like this.

If you don't mind, I will copy this and use it as a reference frame in the future.

I know you probably don't want my opinion, but this seems very misleading.
I saw this one. Would you prefer this?



Functions in one word:

Ti: Analysis

Fi: Conviction

Si: Remembrance

Ni: Focus

Te: Execution

Fe: Connectedness

Se: Presence

Ne: Extrapolation
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Today 12:26 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
337
-->
You know, to be honest, I don't know if I have any idea about this anymore. Sorry, I probably shouldn't have said anything to begin with, lol. I don't know. I've decided to check out of thinking about personality psychology. Good luck, have fun.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
Ni - awareness of the background unconscious.
Ne - potential in the environment.
Si - projection onto the environment.
Se - detail of surroundings.

Te - engagement with external conditions.
Ti - ordering the internal thought process.
Fe - vacating one's feeling tone, numbing.
Fi - submerging ones being into attachment.
 

Animekitty

baby marshmallow born today
Local time
Today 10:26 AM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
7,975
-->
Location
crib
ISFJ - Schizoaffective Depressive type.
 
Top Bottom