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Are you lonely?

lonely?


  • Total voters
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Cherry Cola

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Yes. Move new town. Fail aquire new friends because not try and dont enjoy drinking.
 
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im lonely when it comes to most of my interests...eg. films, japanese literature, botany, history, archaeology etc. i have to join forums or fb groups related to them if i want to share my thoughts or join discussions(with strangers, obv), which sucks.
i do have good friends, but its still extremely important to me to be able to discuss and share my thoughts about whatever i find interesting atm. sadly, im rarely able to do that and therefore feel lonely and restrained most of the time
 

Architect

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It's more subtle than yes/no, as I think it is for most people.

I enjoy a certain amount of delicious loneliness. Going to some remote place evokes this, or I imagine what it would be like having my own private advanced space ship to explore the solar system (or likewise a sailboat).

In real life, we're all surrounded by people, it seems like it would be hard to avoid people contact. I talk to my neighbors, colleagues, people at the store, other parents, family (immediate and extended), social networking (old school friends, people with similar interests), boards (like this) on and on. You can't help but be surrounded by people constantly, so I couldn't be described as being lonely in my life.

On a personal basis, I really only have two close friends anymore, and I work with them. Do I see them outside of work? No. Do I want to? No. I've lost many old friends because, for one reason, I don't socialize. Just like Einstein here, I've got too much going on, and enough of a public life to spend time in idle socialization. But given that I feel lonely, or that I should be lonely, because I have so few friends. My inferior talking no doubt, I know that INTP's and personally only have one or two good friends, even though they have a large rolodex. But the inferior does what it does, and makes me feel more lonely sometimes than I actually am.

Finally, I have some kind of programming that goes around my head, that I should be more sociable. Probably due to my ESTJ/ESFP upbringing which was full of relatives and friends. I know the score however, I can't stand that much social contact, but I haven't fully been able to be comfortable with myself in this way. Still working on that, but this programming makes me feel more lonely, unsociable and like an outcast than it should, and more than the real situation.

So I checked "No" but it's a complex subject as described.
 

Jennywocky

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I'm habitually lonely and have always been so.

Later in life, now, I've been realizing it's me. I just don't think I'll ever feel non-lonely even if in a deep relationship. It's just how I am. I used to be disturbed by it, now I'm slowly accepting it. If I was younger, I might have considered signing up for that one-way trip Mars program.

There's just an unbridgeable gap between me and other people -- I think between all of us. But some just aren't aware of it. But we can never close the distance. Even when we hold hands, there's all that space between our atoms, they never really touch. And even in the end, if you live 70 years with another human being, one of you dies first; in the end we're all still alone. Life is a process of stripping away, or at least revealing you never had anything to begin with.

I don't say that to be depressing, but it's something I grapple with. Calling it the essence of SX merging never being fulfilled, if you want. Call it whatever. I just know that I feel a huge kinship with characters in stories where they are alone and fully aware of the existential heaviness that comes with such independence. It's hard to desire a type of connection that you also perceive as impossible within the confines of this existence.
 

Cherry Cola

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Finally, I have some kind of programming that goes around my head, that I should be more sociable. Probably due to my ESTJ/ESFP upbringing which was full of relatives and friends. I know the score however, I can't stand that much social contact, but I haven't fully been able to be comfortable with myself in this way. Still working on that, but this programming makes me feel more lonely, unsociable and like an outcast than it should, and more than the real situation.

How did you stand it? What where the effects? What would have happened if you were raised in an INFJ+INTP household like your own son?

Sorry I know this is going of on a tangent and the ask architect thread is no more, but I am curious :O
 
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There's just an unbridgeable gap between me and other people -- I think between all of us. But some just aren't aware of it. But we can never close the distance. Even when we hold hands, there's all that space between our atoms, they never really touch. And even in the end, if you live 70 years with another human being, one of you dies first; in the end we're all still alone. Life is a process of stripping away, or at least revealing you never had anything to begin with.
:(

I don't say that to be depressing, but it's something I grapple with. Calling it the essence of SX merging never being fulfilled, if you want. Call it whatever. I just know that I feel a huge kinship with characters in stories where they are alone and fully aware of the existential heaviness that comes with such independence. It's hard to desire a type of connection that you also perceive as impossible within the confines of this existence.

it is depressing tho, because its true
“In spite of language, in spite of intelligence and intuition and sympathy, one can never really communicate anything to anybody. The essential substance of every thought and feeling remains incommunicable, locked up in the impenetrable strong-room of the individual soul and body. Our life is a sentence of perpetual solitary confinement.”
― Aldous Huxley
 

Cherry Cola

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What Jenny writes sounds like depression internalized and thus conquered. Still, you decide what constitutes connecting with people. Sure there's an unabridgeable gap, but you could as well say that all people are part of the same greater whole and thus ultimately interconnected no?

Quoting Leonard Cohen:

"It's hard to hold the hand of anyone
who is reaching for the sky just to surrender"
 

Jennywocky

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What Jenny writes sounds like depression internalized and thus conquered. Still, you decide what constitutes connecting with people. Sure there's an unabridgeable gap, but you could as well say that all people are part of the same greater whole and thus ultimately interconnected no?

Obviously that kind of rationalization does nothing for me, it's just a way of dodging the problem by saying, "Well, just call the cup half-full instead and you'll feel right as rain in no time!"
 

Architect

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How did you stand it? What where the effects? What would have happened if you were raised in an INFJ+INTP household like your own son?

Sorry I know this is going of on a tangent and the ask architect thread is no more, but I am curious :O

No problem.

For reference my immediate family was (father on down) ESTJ, ESFP, ESTJ (oldest sister), ESFP (sister), ISTP (brother) and INTP (me). Extended family are all S variants. One branch we were close with and they were horrible. Major social climbing EST family, where at least mine was more relaxed and fun loving due to the ESFP counter balance. Naturally that family self imploded eventually with divorces, people not talking to each other and so on. They were very mean when we were children. Other relatives were either ISFX quiet families or ESFX families.
Well obviously I didn't have any choice in the matter, so its probably instructive to see how I reacted. When very young I was an extraverted, well loved and doted upon baby of the family, among my family and extended relatives. A not uncommon pattern, most children, even introverts, tend to be quite extroverted when very young as they're exploring this new bright world. Relatively quickly however I became moody and reclusive, prone to going outside just to get away from the crowd.

Dinners were hard. They'd be loud, boisterous with everybody trying to get a laugh in. I'd try to pretend to go along but basically melt into my chair. I was known as the oddball, of course, loved but still the accepted/unaccepted oddball.

My biggest enemy however was myself - Fe inferior as I finally figured out. It conspired against me, whispering in my ear to stop being such an asshole and just join in the 'fun' like everybody else. The result of which I've been highly conflicted through most of my life (key point here). A positive upshot though is that I'm hard as nails for getting what I want. I had to fight every step to get even some space for myself, or getting out of an event I'd hate. This last one has been a major struggle, I still get relatives pitching me to go to some event they'd like and I'd hate. And they'll still argue with me about it, trying to beat me into submission I think. I'm at a point however where it's basically "fuck you, I don't compromise anymore when it's never a compromise". But in career and life second best wasn't acceptable, because I had to get out and be independent.

As to my kid, I highlighted being conflicted above. He has his conflicts - not enough friends being one right now (and yes he needs to get a friend or two). But he's much more solid in himself, and other kids are noticing. He's on his way to becoming a jesus of cool on the nerd plane. He's tall, thin as a rail, offbeat and completely understands that its OK, because of the MBTI training he's gotten (and more importantly that his home reflects himself). He also completely understands why the kids around him do the stuff they do too. Still drives him crazy and we have to talk him down after school, but he has a fraction of the conflict I had at that age as far as I can tell.
 

Alias

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Not to sound creepy, Archtiect, but your son reminds me a lot of myself as a kid. I was and still am very tall and lanky. I only had a small amount of friends, the majority of which were my friends because my INFP twin could emotionally and socially connect with them more. I also understood the minds of people and their motives, just I didn't want to participate in many social opportunities. Although I was raised by ExFx/INTJ, not INTP/INFJ.
 

onesteptwostep

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I tend to be alone but I wouldn't say that I feel lonely, most of the time at least. I felt lonely sometimes in college, however, even though I had great friends.. which is most likely due to me not really trying at all in participating in social activities. In a large social gathering I tended to be more observant and reserved, but oddly really talkative with new people. I couldn't really be all outgoing in a larger setting because I saw that type of social gathering as more of a establishment of role and hierarchy of that social circle (this is highly evident in Japanese and Korean culture). I mean if it were a group of good friends I wouldn't really think of a social gathering that way, but if someone guy I don't know or some person I don't like very well is being too aggressive in trying to get control of the conversation I tend to become restrained. A social setting I think should be bound to unwritten rules, regardless of your personality. All persons should be allowed to have a say. I guess this is the 'treats everyone as equals' quirk in the INTP.

Regarding my family, my parents (I think) are INTP (dad) and ISTP (mom). The meals with the fam were calm. We just enojyed the meal together and didn't mouth off.. I think it was just my mother talking while we just gave input or replied to what she said. My dad on the other hand never really talked much but just focused down on his food. My sister is a ENTP so she interacted with mom. So yeah, I think dinners were more of a 'recharging time' rather than a social activity. We'd go to malls for that.
 

Evolutionmine16

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No. I am alone, but loneliness implies feeling sad about being alone, which I'm not. I always find it strange that people sometimes feel bad for me for being alone when I've never had an issue with it. It's not that I don't care if I am alone or with another person, I just don't need the company of another person to function.

Life is easier when you're alone, I've found. Little to no social expectations, no hatred toward anyone else, and no perceivable hatred toward myself from other people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Analyzer

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Obviously that kind of rationalization does nothing for me, it's just a way of dodging the problem by saying, "Well, just call the cup half-full instead and you'll feel right as rain in no time!"

Interesting dynamic. If your a SX/SP this makes sense why you feel that way. You come to the realization that the material reality is somewhat impossible to merge as boundaries will always exist. The secondary self-preservation instinct desires the integrity of the individual to be connected your with your inner energy-conflicted stacking. Other types, specifically sensor SX/SP may not come to these conclusions.

Being SX/SO I desire for the world to merge with my own energy, so its similar but what makes me not feel fulfilled is when I have no outlet to impact and express my ideas to others. This is difficult being an introvert, and why I found writing so appealing.

I wondering if being a SX dom as a INTP, Type 5, is sort of counter-intuitive. Seems like most are SP(typical reserved "my castle" types) with some SO("intellectuals") scattered around.
 

Jennywocky

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Being SX/SO I desire for the world to merge with my own energy, so its similar but what makes me not feel fulfilled is when I have no outlet to impact and express my ideas to others. This is difficult being an introvert, and why I found writing so appealing.

Interesting. I'd like to hear more about SX/SO and even SO, it's the variant I understand (i.e., can empathize with) the least. I just have no idea what it means, and I feel like my attempts to define it from my own intellectual perspective have been shallow ones.

I wondering if being a SX dom as a INTP, Type 5, is sort of counter-intuitive. Seems like most are SP(typical reserved "my castle" types) with some SO("intellectuals") scattered around.

Totally, I think INTP is far more inclined towards SP and I think the stereotype of INTP more closely resembles the SP variant style (e.g., "greed/saving one's resources for oneself"). I think SX (any variant) has elements of Four [and maybe a few others] in it and/or F, it's the variant of INTP that most resembles those types even if detached thinking remains part of the foundation due to the intensity of its need to connect with the "other" in some guise.

I also find myself frustrated because many INTPs seem so happy to be alone, and while on one level I'm happy (because no one is interfering with my life), I also feel very adrift and rather purposeless without anything capturing my attention. The impersonal seems to just be a rinse and repeat, and there's nothing surprising or unique or new about it that sparks my interest much anymore; making contact with another will, though, in openness and depth? I never know what I'll find.

I ran across something this weekend that seems to fairly describe my experience. I don't know if there's a copy online, it looks like someone typed it into a web post. But anyway, it's about the Five SX, spoilered due to length.

From Beatrice Chestnut's book "The Complete Enneagram: 27 Paths to Greater Self-Knowledge".


Sexual Fives

In the Sexual Five, avarice is expressed through an ongoing search for a connection that will satisfy their need for an experience of the most perfect, safest, and most satisfying (idealized) union. This Five may look like the other two five subtypes on the outside, having all the regular five inhibitions and introversion in the area of relationship, but the sexual five places a special value on one-to-one or intimate connections.

This five has a passion for finding a special person they can connect with deeply, sometimes a person they cannot find or have yet to find. Like the social five, this five also searches for a high ideal, but this five looks for the ideal in the realm of love. This five feels a need to find a high exemplar of absolute love. Like the search for the extraordinary of the social five, the ideal kind of connection this five searches for represents a very high standard. Sexual fives seek something like the ultimate mystical union- an experience of the divine in human relationships. And this can also happen with the search for good friends or a spiritual teacher.

While social and self-preservation fives are more removed from their emotions, the sexual five is intense, romantic, and more emotionally sensitive. This five suffers more, resembles the four more, and has more overt desires. This is the countertype among the fives. It may not be completely obvious from the outside, however- they may seem very much like other fives until you touch their romantic spot and inspire their romantic feelings. While they can appear reserved or laconic on the outside, sexual fives have a vibrant internal life that is highly romantic. There are examples of sexual five artists- like Chopin, who Naranjo notes is the most romantic of the classical composers- who display extreme emotional expressiveness through their artistic creations but are cut off in many ways from others in the everyday world.

Sexual fives live in an inner world filled with ideation, theories, and utopian fantasies about finding unconditional love. They live for a couple's love as a kind of ultimate or ideal experience of connection. However, what they search for represents an idealized form of relationship that may not exist in the human world.

Trust is the basic issue with the sexual five. The name Naranjo ascribes to this subtype is “confidence,” which has a special meaning related to an ability to trust the other, and suggests a search for the person who will be with you no matter what, the partner (or friend) that you can trust with all your secrets. Confidence is the kind of ideal that makes sexual fives very romantic deep inside. They search for an idealized version of love and relationship as a source of meaning in life.

The sexual five's search for a high exemplar of connection is so exacting that it's very hard to pass their test with consistency if you are the person in relationship with them. It's very easy for the sexual five to be disappointed. This subtype has such a great need to trust in the other that the need is not easily satisfied, and so there can be a lot of testing in their relationships.

Fives tend to be a private people, but this five has a great need for intimacy under the right circumstances- if they can find a person they can really trust to love them despite their flaws. This subtype expresses a need to be completely transparent with their partner, and they need their partner to be very open as well- and this ideal of trust and intimacy is not easy to find. Because of this, sexual fives can get very picky about the people they have relationships with, and they can become frustrated when they discover that the other is human. If a partner does not live up to their expectations of transparency and openness, they tend to feel disappointed and- because they have a fear of being hurt by others- to isolate themselves.

Some sexual fives say that their search for an ultimate kind of connection does not only center on relationship with a lover or life partner. One five said he related to the idea of “emotional promiscuity,” saying, “I want ultimate contact with a lot of people,” one at a time. And some fives with this subtype report that although they feel guarded in the face of too much emotional intensity, they have a deep desire for intimacy with a trusted few. One five with this subtype described especially appreciating the experience of “clicking” with someone- the feeling of having chemistry with another person- saying that when he felt this he could become infatuated very quickly.

Although the sexual five may look like a type four, this five is still quit five-ish, so is not likely to be mistaken for a four. And while this subtype is the five countertype and seeks to manifest an ideal of intimacy, it may be hard to discern the difference between this five and the other two fives, as all of the five subtypes experience a need to withdraw. However, this five has a need to find a special relationship that will provide both safety and an ultimate kind of love.

Stephen, a sexual five, talks about his subtype:

“Full access to my feelings came after I started doing body work in my early 30s, and they were, and sometimes still are, very confusing and overwhelming- especially “softer” emotions like compassion. I'll find myself with tears welling up at times and need to look inside for the trigger, which can be as simple as the sight of a homeless person on the side of the road. My adult life has been a constant tension between my point's need to pull in a husband and my (emotional, physical, intellectual, financial) resources, and a mostly stronger drive to reach out and connect, not merely with my intimate partner, but nearly everywhere.

The reaching out is an attempt to fill an existential-psychic hole that seems to have existed from a prenatal stage. I seek connection with others to avoid feeling that emptiness. The name of the subtype, Confidence, is about building a bond with another (or many others on a one-to-one basis). For instance, when I have to give talks to a group, I find a single person to be my focus, while appearing to address the group. Relationships are the most fearful of objects, yet the most needed.

I have been called out on enneagram panels as not looking like other fives- too flamboyant, too out, too willing to talk about the inner landscape and the demons that inhabit it. This is true, and in my youth it was (physical) camouflage. Now it is merely a way of being. I have learned that the desire to disappear into the background of my youth was a false hope, and since I cannot disappear, I might just as well be who I really am.

The most important thing that needs to be understood about the sexual five is that we are in a constant struggle between the withdrawing and withholding (stinginess) of the basic point, and the need to reach out and connect driven by the instinctual energy of the subtype. Behind this tension is an emotional sensitivity that is hidden to the outside world and also to the five until they [we] allow awareness of emotions into their daily life.”


Specific Work For The Sexual Fives on the Path from Vice to Virtue


Sexual Fives can travel the path from avarice to nonattachment by noticing and working against the tendency to hold others to high standards as a way of avoiding intimacy. Recognize when you are testing others or adhering to impossible standards of connection as a way to avoid your fear and defend against your own fear of exposure. Notice the ways in which you might close yourself off to contact even as you long for it. Work toward achieving the intimate connection you desire- not through an attachment to an idea of what love can be, but through taking the risk to express your real feelings to the people in your life. Allow yourself to feel into and work with the fear that arises as you open yourself up to deeper relationships and authentic expressions of your emotions. Release your preconceived ideas about what connecting with others is supposed to be about, and challenge yourself to just allow contact to happen. Let yourself be surprised by life, and communicate the beauty of your deeply romantic feelings and desires more frequently and in more ways.

I've written in the past that the SX aspect of Five (in my experience) has been focusing on "secrets/trust as intimacy." SX gets coarsened to "sexuality" in some more tangible types, but for me I've found myself to be looking for another person who I can be completely open and vulnerable with and vice versa -- someone who knows everything about me and me knowing everything about him. Trust that overcomes fear. It's kind of like crawling into each other's head and living there. The problem is that I recognize that ideal is not something that is entirely attainable, and worse I rarely find anyone who is even willing to make an effort. I was unhappy with my partner for many years before I discovered the enneagram and variant instincts... and when I realized my partner was an SP variant, i finally "got" why I was so unhappy. I was hunkered down more in SP mode early in life due to some bad experiences grew up, so we seemed more compatible; but as I changed, I wanted a lot more intimacy/"bare-soul-ness" and wasn't going to get it (or even have it be understood -- from all the conversations we had) in that relationship. We both instinctively wanted drastically different things in terms of our connection and energy flow. I had a relationship later where he seemed very SX (an INFP) but unfortunately it feel through for other reasons; I think ending it was the right choice, but I really fear I'm never going to find anyone else willing to go there with me.
 

J-man

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I don't know. I can't remember what it feels like to be lonely, though I am very alone. Maybe I'm lonely but completely accustomed to it. When I am with people, in a certain sense I am the same as when I am alone. I don't like to have my life tangled up with anyone else's, not even a little bit. Who could I accept in spite of their flaws when I can barely manage my own?

Sometimes I crave something. Maybe when we learn to fill that void with other people, we call the feeling loneliness. But I haven't been open to people for so long that for me it's something else. When I feel empty, I meditate or read religious books. Spiritual life can be difficult but no person has filled my emptiness as deeply as the truth I've found through religion.

When I was younger, I fell madly in love with a girl. Breaking up with her was unimaginably painful. I felt strongly that I would never love anyone that deeply again and I haven't. It seems that for me to love like that again, I would have to throw away the inner strength that I've found. The love within myself, the love of God. I don't think it's possible to give that up.
 

Yellow

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I used to feel lonely, though I was rarely physically alone. I think more alone time, or some time in a healthy psychosocial environment before the age of 26, would have made a difference. Perhaps more specifically, it's impossible for nearly any person to feel close to me, and I don't tend to form warm feelings for most people, so a proper connection never forms. Even with family and in relationships, I just assumed that I would always feel distant and lonely.

Now with my INTJ, I feel less lonely. He's a decent companion, and we have a close connection. Also, I get alone time.
 

TheManBeyond

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You take a lot of pressure off from not being in a relationship but yeah, maybe this is the aspect i miss the most, to feel important for somebody else, like really important and huged and kissed adn stuff.
Then i have got a few friends which is ok for me, i don't need to have tons of them.
I think i feel lonely deep inside but it is not a bad feeling for me most of the time (70% of it lets say).
What i don't like is when i think people dislike me for some reason and i start blaming myself because of it.
 

Glaerhaidh

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I don't think I will become this close to a person to be near-fully understood or for me to fully understand them and by this I mean to be intimate.
I don't connect with other people easily, especially not on the internet or in a foreign language, but I have a couple of friends who are fine people and great to spend time with.
While I can spend time with people irl, I relatively rarely want to and I prefer seclusion, it's good that loneliness is an option and I can escape it with not-so-big of an effort.

Nowadays I don't even have so much time for meetings and while I wished I had (more time to waste in general, like I used to), I am doing important things right now which will open some perspectives for me in the years to come and really I don't have people that important to me to sacrifice my growth (except for a few people that won't need my help anytime soon anyway and I'd probably be the one to ask them to help me), furthermore a part of my growth is so that I can interact on a higher level of knowledge/complexity and have more social freedom in general and with my current relationships. I come back from work and there are fewer hours left and usually these hours are allocated to something else than socialisation. This forum is an exception, I thought I could quit more easily, but it seems I want to stay and type on the keyboard. The whole procedure is relaxing and helps clarify thoughts in a way.
 

The Introvert

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I'm not certain I understand what you mean by lonely. when I think of lonely, I think of someone that is actually surrounded by people. but despite the physical proximity, there is little to no emotional connection between people. therefore I generally think of someone that is in a big city, perhaps far away from family, and either depressed or upset with the world around them.

alternatively I'm sure you could be out in the middle of nowhere and feel lonely too. but it would seem to me that if you lived somewhere like that, you would want to be kind of isolated from other people, you would probably be out there with someone you know and love very well (or not, which further means you don't really need that sort of relationship) and wouldn't fall victim to the lonely bug quite as readily.

the loneliness one can feel while surrounded on every side by humanity is, in my experience, one of the most crushing of emotional lows imaginable (within the normal scope of human experience).

and for clarification, when I say: "emotional connection" I basically mean someone you love in some way shape or form, be it sexual in nature or not. essentially someone who cares about your existence and your endeavors, and about whom, you too, care. I'm tempted to rant about the human condition here, but it isn't the place or time.
 

Reluctantly

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Yeah. I always have to pretend. My gender is an all the time mask. My anxieties and past stresses make me look weak, so people think I'm weak, yet I'm probably better mentally equipped to handle suffering and conflict than most. The ways I think are not easily expressable to others, so I also have to mask that as well, so socializing is both draining and frustrating.

It's weird because I don't want much to do with people because it's so unfulfilling, but at the same time, I want someone I can be myself around. So I'm lonely, but I'm not.
 

ToughRye

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I have had periods in my life when I was lonely and semi-depressed. My black moods arise when there is nothing intelligent to do or discuss. I managed to solve it step by step, so now I am only alone, not lonely.
 

RandomGeneratedName

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First time felt loneliness @ 26
Alone whole life though
So detatched, numbed, isolated and angry, and pushing everyone away, I did not notice.
Barely feel it now, but before felt nothing, ever, was always puzzled by peoples behaviours, but now I understand.
Crazy looking back on it. :(
 

Shieru

rational romantic
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im lonely when it comes to most of my interests...eg. films, japanese literature, botany, history, archaeology etc. i have to join forums or fb groups related to them if i want to share my thoughts or join discussions(with strangers, obv), which sucks.
i do have good friends, but its still extremely important to me to be able to discuss and share my thoughts about whatever i find interesting atm. sadly, im rarely able to do that and therefore feel lonely and restrained most of the time

I resonate with what you say here, zerkalo. Although I've been fortunate enough to find a few friends over the years who do share my interests.

What are some of your favorite pieces of Japanese literature? And what attracts you to botany? Do you do botanical taxonomy or illustration?
 

Void

oblivious
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Alone, yes
Lonely, I'd say no
 

rainman312

rice-eater extraordinaire
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I'd say I'm lonely when it comes to people like myself. I know lots of people, but all they ever want to talk about is garbage for the most part. As for physical solitude, it isn't something I really mind. I generally prefer being alone.
 

Tigris

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Very, I purposely isolate myself for long periods of time, winter is not a fun time in Canada. Moving to a warmer climate soon.
 

Bock

caffeine fiend
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Yes. Not sure if i'm truly "allowed" to call myself lonely considering how i push people away but then again i'm not perfect and neither is this world, to say the least.

What i would do to be a social butterfly...
 

JimJambones

sPaCe CaDeT
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I'm an enneagram 5w4, sx/sp, so I experience loneliness quite frequently.
 

DrSketchpad

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No, I don't go to any social gatherings of my own will.. I guess on the level of "Y'know it'd be kind of nice to have an xNTP friend", but not that nagging sense of needing more people.
 

astrograph

showtime!
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I used to.
I'm fine with it, but now I crave physical contact. Had my first kiss not too long ago (with a sociopath, jeez) and it's kinda nice, although it still seems somewhat dirty.
I'm generally percieved as an odball and a freak, so I don't even get the opportunity to have someone voluntarily speak to me. Which is fine, I guess, because I can sleep through days without having anyone feel neglected.
 

TimeAsylums

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Sometimes I feel a longing, but I'm not lonely, though often alone.

Lots of lonely people it seems though :'(
 

Minuend

pat pat
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I don't think I tend to emotionally connect and relate to people, thus I don't tend to feel lonely (because I don't know what I'm missing). When I was younger I spent a lot of time alone, but never felt lonely. I was in my 20s when I read about people here never relating to others in real life or in fiction. I'd never thought about relating to people in that way being a thing. I never related to anybody and never expected to. Maybe partly because I don't intuitively pick up on what other people feel and they become somewhat distant to me, more machine-like, but not to an extreme of course. More subtly.
I did want a few friends, but it was not motivated by feeling lonely. It was motivated by wanting to have funs and stuff.

I wasn't particularly interested in pursuing relationships either, and figured someone compatible would be hard, if not impossible, to come by. I did change in some aspects when I did stumble upon someone I could have a relationship with, though. By connecting and finding someone who understands me in pretty much every way and who you come to develop somewhat of an own language in which you discuss and think about the world. Having a person so close he feels a part of you. Like Jenny described; feeling like he crept into your brain and claimed a place there.

I think I'd be more "capable" of being lonely if I ended up alone again. At the same time, I think I have a tendency to remain detached from almost everyone else. I'm not even sure I'm attached to my siblings and father, who I grew up with.

For now living with partner and having various interactions with people online, my social needs are met.
 

Polaris

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As Minuend observed, I've not had the supposed pleasure of feeling a genuine connection to people, so I don't miss it. The only person I ever missed was my father and that was a long time ago - I cannot recall what that felt like.

When I lost my father two years ago I was shocked - but I still don't know how I feel or if it's even real. I can only describe it as having had the foundation ripped away from underneath oneself - it's a hollow feeling, and I guess that is a lonely feeling; knowing that the only person who ever tried to genuinely understand you and loved you the only way possible there is to love, is gone. But I don't know how I feel in terms of loss other than the fact that many things have lost their meaning to some extent. I guess that is what mourning is, and I accept that feeling may not leave me for as long as I live. I sometimes wonder what the point is to my existence for that reason; if I cannot feel joy or anything significant through connection to people or to the things I do.

Although I'm certainly not afraid to be alone. I had accepted that I'd be a loner for the rest of my life when I met someone who changed that outlook dramatically. Still very much the loner, but in a relationship. I am not sure how I would feel if I became alone again - I guess I'd be grateful that I have been able to connect with someone on the level that Minu describes.
 

Knick

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No. I am alone, but loneliness implies feeling sad about being alone, which I'm not. I always find it strange that people sometimes feel bad for me for being alone when I've never had an issue with it. It's not that I don't care if I am alone or with another person, I just don't need the company of another person to function.

Life is easier when you're alone, I've found. Little to no social expectations, no hatred toward anyone else, and no perceivable hatred toward myself from other people.

Preach it.

I live in my little hidden corner of the world, and venture out as little as I can get away with. Probably not the healthiest thing in the world, but I have yet to feel sad about being alone.
 

Sinny91

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I'm not loney in the sense that I have many friends, and I'm lucky enough to have a best friend who is like an extention of me. I am lonely by alternate definitions however. I have to haunt the web to share my interests and meet like minded people.

Intimate relationships have never been able to fill the gap thus far.
I always feel like I'm away from home even tho I don't know where home is.

I'm Enneagram type 8.
So maybe I'm confusing my own independance is afflicted lonliness.. ?
 

youkneeburst

hypothetical
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I'm habitually lonely and have always been so.

Later in life, now, I've been realizing it's me. I just don't think I'll ever feel non-lonely even if in a deep relationship. It's just how I am. I used to be disturbed by it, now I'm slowly accepting it. If I was younger, I might have considered signing up for that one-way trip Mars program.

There's just an unbridgeable gap between me and other people -- I think between all of us. But some just aren't aware of it. But we can never close the distance. Even when we hold hands, there's all that space between our atoms, they never really touch. And even in the end, if you live 70 years with another human being, one of you dies first; in the end we're all still alone. Life is a process of stripping away, or at least revealing you never had anything to begin with.

I don't say that to be depressing, but it's something I grapple with. Calling it the essence of SX merging never being fulfilled, if you want. Call it whatever. I just know that I feel a huge kinship with characters in stories where they are alone and fully aware of the existential heaviness that comes with such independence. It's hard to desire a type of connection that you also perceive as impossible within the confines of this existence.

i also feel the same. though physically, we can never really touch, but closeness shouldnt be based only on physical contact. we could be emotionally close to someone by, for example, having the same way of thinking or similar interest, or sexually close to someone by intimate sex, even if these ways of closeness doesnt absolutely close the distance to zero, it still at least infinitesimally reaches such (reminds me of limits in calculus).

and yes at the beginning and ending of everything, we are alone, furthermore, we are in fact nothing at all. we are nothing before our parent's gametes fertilized, and we are nothing after our physical body decomposes when we die. at least not physically, we are nothing before and after our life,we are mere lifeless matter.

rather, i have this feeling of irremediable loneliness from the thought that i am just all alone with my thoughts, that everything, my friends families and acquaintances, around me are merely informations perceived by my senses and stored in my brain through electro-chemical datas. and whether a physical world beyond these sphere of thoughts exist or not, nothing is changed, in the end we're just pieces of flesh exchanging informations through specific ways. the 'life' and 'ego' we had is unique, and once even a tiny bit is changed, it's not our life anymore, it's someone else's. we only have one life, and that makes me feel so alone, im just this one unique combination of thoughts.

the mere acceptance though that we are inherently alone can make us feel better and at least less sad about being alone though.

i answered yes because im alone and i feel lonely at the moment. there are instances where im alone, but am satisfied with my own company and doesn't need anyone else. i once read an article in wikipedia that clearly distinguishes between solitude and loneliness. loneliness is the feeling of longing for social interaction due to social isolation while solitude on the contrary is the desire to be alone and avoid social interaction.

anyway im gonna tell the long tale of why im lonely. in my childhood, i used to be the typical 'shy', 'silent', and 'timid' intp kid who loved to watch cartoon shows and play videogame in the corner of a dark room. i never really had official friends but I used to have many fellow kids, mostly classmates, that I always play and interact with, and if that's the definition of friendship on childhood, then I had many. as young as when i started high school, i moved away from my hometown and family to attend the 'top' high school in our province. i lived in a dormitory by myself, so as young as 12, i have learned to be independent and have been used to being alone. i was still fine on the early months of my freshman years, a good kid who knows how to smile and cooperate with his fellows, until the effects of being away from parents' guidance started to manifest compounded by the loneliness, pre-adolescent adjustment, sexuality confusion, etc. my loneliness eventually became the breeding ground to my overthinking, resulting to my existential crisis and struggle with nihilism. all of which combined together to become depression, which eventually pulled me down until the rest of my high school life. and even until now that i've already graduated. i even had post high school regrets that i could have done better had i not been so depressed, i could have gotten into a better college.
as of this monent im friendless and cold, ive completely lost touch of my childhood friends and haven't made so much in high school due to my depressive life. i had probably one to two close highschool classmates who share the same darkness and asociality of mine but i still feel incomplete, and given that theyre similarly not sociable, we rarely interacted with each other and sometimes i dont think we even acknowledge each other as friends, we hate title and labels like that, but we at least enjoy each other's company and understands that we can count on each other on crisis. im also not that close to my family because of my being away from them for four years especially at a very young age where i haven't developed any prioe mature connection with them yet. so here i am detached from people just waiting for college to start so i can have something to distract myself from being lonely. maybe i really do 'desire for a social interaction' though i hate to admit it to myself because i can really manage alone and have been used to it. :kodama1:
 

TheManBeyond

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Objects in the mirror might look closer than they
yes, my group of best friends (3 guys lol) are far away from where i am right now. The last time i went to see them the group had split because of my friend's girl had an argument and now they hate each other and so do my pals which i found quite stupid.
Then over there i have another great friend who's now about to get married and spend all time with his gf so i haven't got news by him in a while.
Then one of my friends here told me the other day that he didn't find me interesting enough in the sense that he should spend less time drinking with me and talking about random stuff and spend more studying and partying with friends of his career since they can give him connections and ways to get to higher levels of development in his laboral life, i felt quite hurt but i partialy understand it. He's a guy that have spent all his life studying, knows tons of people, he's friend with everyone, succesfull, probably an ENXJ, can't quite tell, i knew it since i got to know him. And i knew it wasn't going to be the typical lifetime strong friendship.
Then other of my good friends is living now in paris and i'm going to visit her in about 2 weeks.
I wanted to become friends with my ex gf but she complitely ignores me.
So yeah i feel quite lonely. I must get something good out of this. I hope.
 

Noph

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Feeling pretty lonely, even though I reject company and I'm terrified of opening up to someone. The environment doesn't help : I'm in a french business school, which means I'm living in a continuation of high school - no one is passionate about what we learn, and the popularity ranking is omnipresent. The fact that being present for the lessons is mandatory is probably the worst though, as I do nothing but daydream all day and therefore need time for myself in the evening to actually do something.

The weird part is that in the last year, I've begun to ask myself whether I really wanted not to be aone or if that was just the desire of feeling normal (which I never felt I was during my teenage years). As for today, I can't say of anyone that I'd like him/her to be my friend.
 

Seteleechete

Together forever
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I am lonely and would like company. That said my aversion to loneliness is significantly lower than my aversion to fakeness/lies/facades/being illogical/conforming to others.
 

Haim

Worlds creator
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It's very complex,I can't say I am and definitely can't say I am not.
There seem to be several if not many kind of loneliness.
The group or people you have connection with but don't consider as friends loneliness,where the group is sometimes negative to you, if you don't have group interaction from time to time.
The one I feel most,lack of understanding.
The lack of expressing kind.
The lack good friend kind of loneliness.
the romantic kind.
 

TheAdditional1

The Pharaohs Advocate
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I have to start out by saying I'm heavily biased towards loneliness since I deal with this hearing impairment. As Helen Keller said in some form - blind people miss out on things; deaf people miss out on people. For me that statement could not be truer. Group conversations are largely impossible - I'll be in a room filled with people and yet just sit there, not picking up anything, hardly able to interact with anyone. And in the meantime I miss out on countless social synergy all along the way, so I wind up being a very practical talker rather than social. I just don't really know how everyone really interacts. I only really have individual friends, and it's the story of my life that I get left behind for the group more often than not. Being left behind used to be one of my greatest fears, but I've kind of grown to get used to it and often just embrace it - I now see it as more of an autonomous adventure instead, and where I get to think freely and not get swayed by dumb social currents.

So because of that, and I guess on account of the personality types (although I often wonder if this forced isolation bent me into an introverted-thinker), I just find it hard to truly small talk with anyone unless we're discussing practical things or theories. And although I want to be AROUND people and I WANT to be able to interact the same way, it just doesn't happen. So most nights I'm pretty solo unless I take the initiative (I love hosting parties - getting all my individual friends from different groups together and watching how they interact. Feels like a Gatsby complex). But it can be quickly exhausting trying to actually keep up with the group.

But yeah one phenomenon is that every so often I wake up in the middle of the night with an absurdly heavy feeling of utter isolation that sometimes puts me close to panic.

I'm habitually lonely and have always been so.


There's just an unbridgeable gap between me and other people -- I think between all of us. But some just aren't aware of it. But we can never close the distance. Even when we hold hands, there's all that space between our atoms, they never really touch.


....characters in stories where they are alone and fully aware of the existential heaviness that comes with such independence. It's hard to desire a type of connection that you also perceive as impossible within the confines of this existence.

Jennywocky - I think the best analogy would be to imagine a ravine. Let's redefine the bridge - it's not meant to connect the two cliffs entirely, but to make one solitary connection - the connection that counts, and the connection that we can enjoy for what it is - a special point of mutual connection that helps celebrate the individual cliffs. All depends on how you feel "connected" can qualify. (the glass half full/half empty thing does apply, but seems too unsophisticated for this kind of nuance.)


It's more subtle than yes/no, as I think it is for most people.

I enjoy a certain amount of delicious loneliness. Going to some remote place evokes this, or I imagine what it would be like having my own private advanced space ship to explore the solar system (or likewise a sailboat).

Love that you mentioned a sailboat. To me that's the best thing and perfect analogy for life - a small, sufficient vehicle that despite its size can yet take on the oceans of the world; with the water on all sides, there are no lines dictating where you can and cannot go; with the wind in the sails instead of an engine, you will never run out of fuel. And the end result is that you are quiet, in control and free on an endless adventure. I love sailing. Taking classes this summer to get licensed.

--


And now for a real bender - who has experienced solipsism? I teased with this when I had an existential crisis a few years ago, prefer not to tease it too much these days because I am very much certain I could convince myself into believing this.
 

gilliatt

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Well, to be alive is to be an individual. To be an individual and conscious you have a certain unique perspective on the world. We are each, islands of consciousness and that is the origin of our aloneness. Oh, thinking can only be done by one, not a social act. Same with breathing. It is a private matter. One supposes love could be thrown into there. But no one can think for us, no one can live our life for us, no one can give meaning to this existence for us.
So, first___a self, then, a possibility. Let's say one has a self(a man) and meets another self(a woman). We have two 'I's, that is a possibility of real genuine love. But you are still alone!! We have to understand there is one universe, we are each of us a single point of consciousness in a private, unrepeatable world.
 

J-man

Cobra Kai
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I have asked myself many times if I am lonely and I still don't know. I am alone most of the time, even when there are people around. I do want to be with people but I don't want to be vulnerable and I don't want to hurt people.

I have a "high" standard for who I will open up to. If there's too much uncertainty as to whether they would share my personal feelings with others, if they're too out of touch with reality, too submissive in general, I can't be their friend. Whatever the issue, it will always be between us. I expect friends to have the integrity that I have, and as far as I can tell nobody does.
 

QuietFire

black magician
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sometimes lonely, sometimes not. More often than not, yes.
 

ygnextend

Member
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Rarely do I feel lonely. There is always some one around me or trying to get to know me. Meeting people is easy retaining a relationship is harder.
 

Gather_Wanderer

Space Jokes.
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Close to never.

When I didn't have an SO (over 5 years ago) I preferred to be alone most of the time. But even then it was more 'solitary explorer' than 'hermit'. I never minded talking to strangers or whatever because my intent was always for continuous learning and wandering :D

I did want a special someone to share my life experiences with and to love, and to be loved by, and thankfully I got her. Since that's satisfied I don't anymore. She's very, um, cuddly but I still get enough alone time.
 

Sir Eus Lee

I am wholely flattered you would take about 2 and
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Yes. I want somebody else to relate to me. How selfish. If somebody took Fe off the end of our stack we'd probably be perfectly rational but on the other hand we'd probably either die from not eating or solve our existential problems- unless Si made us continue eating as we were taught-

But that's a tangent. I want somebody else to understand me. I don't know why. I think even if there was somebody who did it would still drive me insane that I could never truly see things from another person's perspective. I don't know why I want somebody else to understand me. I have reasons, but reasons probably don't explain it.

I have the company of myself, but I don't know why me knowing me doesn't satisfy me. Maybe it's because I just want to speak my ideas and reach some sort of progress.

Even worse, I try to share myself with others, but the way I do it is ineffective and then I irrationally blame others for not being accepting how I want them to be accepting. I don't blame them for it, I just.. hard to explain.

Hopefully someday either I or somebody else will give me company. Sometimes company isn't having somebody besides you, but knowing that the person you want there doesn't have to be.

*sigh*
 
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